2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[bwgood77]

So he further tanks whatever value he has because again he just couldn't hack it for another coach. Who would be at fault this time?

I'd love for him to ball out and this whole narrative disappear, but can't say that I'm confident in that based on history.

His best season was the finals run season and he put up a measly 14/10 if I recall. Coincidence?

How quickly we forget... little Google search goes a long way...

Deandre Ayton is leading the league in win shares (2.6) in the 2021 NBA playoffs, and he is doing so incredibly with just an 18% usage rate. The rest of the top six in this category have a usage rate of nearly 32%.

Deandre Ayton's performances in the 2021 NBA playoffs so far
Deandre Ayton is easily having the best playoff debut run by any player in NBA history.

He is shooting at a ridiculous 70.6% FG and has a True Shooting percentage of 70.3, the most in NBA history.

Don't want to get into an argument obviously he didn't progress like everyone wanted but the people around here acting like he sucks or is a bum are just straight up ignorant of basketball.

He certainly wasn't bad in 22 either. He regressed a bit on defense, but got better offensively with the hook shot. Last year was inconsistent, but the team was in disarray with injuries, and he was playing with crap players half the time...and he still had great stretches, winning WC player of the week and going a month averaging like 23 and over 10 rpg with a +26 net rtg and 70% TS%.

[bwoolf2]

The Suns really addressed my concerns from last year length and athleticism, they now are abundant in both, so we'll done there.

[WeekapaugGroove]

The Suns really addressed my concerns from last year length and athleticism, they now are abundant in both, so we'll done there.

It's been a need for the past couple years. This is the most athletic suns roster in a long time.

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[Slim Charless]

Read on Twitter

In case anyone wants to know what picks we got.

[bwgood77]

It's on the player and the coaching staff and organization. Someone puts up historic numbers and you can't figure out how to up their usage rate and make them a bigger focus of the team it's a problem. Monty had his favorites and Ayton doesn't have the personality to over come that.

Bottom line it was an organizational failure and a player failure.

This offseason has shown one thing it's Monty is a pretty weird dude that likes to play favorites and marry his daughters off to those favorites. And Jones saw that and wanted him gone.

Correct answer

Failure by the organization and player may have been the correct answer for the season after the finals run. However, the past can not be changed. Two years later, plus KD, plus Beal, minus Monty, plus Vogel, plus Ishbia means it is 100% in DAs court this season. It would be hard for me to believe that Ayton does not comprehend he is but the fourth option on this team. During the championship season he averaged 10 attempts and 14.4 point per game as the third option behind Book and CP3. Hard to imagine he will get 10 attempts as the fourth option. If before this season starts, he is unhappy with his expected role in the offense, he should quietly ask to be traded. Otherwise he should understand that his role is defense. This is the reality of the current situation.

Fans hoping that Ayton will be ahead of Booker, KD and/or Beal on the shot attempt chart are going to be disappointed.

I don't think we can really expect him to play as good as he has ever played defensively all the time, and you can't really expect that from anyone. I don't think he needs a lot of shots, but it would be better to be consistently involved throughout the game...to get the ball when he is open, etc. Don't just go to him 4-5 times early in the 1st and then only 4-5 times the rest of the game. His shots were very inconsistent. He got his most shots this past year because he got a lot when he was forced to be the #1 or co #1 option because of injuries, and facing all the defensive attention. Then when we did get healthy he'd often get like 7 shots a game or fewer.

[bwgood77]

Really hope GOK is just taking a short break.

Yeah, once he stopped posting for like 3 days and I checked his last sign in date, I figured something happened, since he usually wasn't gone for more than 10 minutes. I hope he's ok.

[enigmatics]

It’s insane how only Booker & Ayton remain from our 2021 championship run. Never seen a finals team dismantled this badly in just a couple of years. I wonder if Booker & DA are next. Hehe

I'm not surprised.

I saw the 2nd round ceiling developing and the lightning in a bottle element that was the '20/'21 run. Mentioned it many times in here. They were a collection of very good young players about to become very expensive, but most of them were not exceptional/elite. They also had a few others with obvious warts who's overachievement was finite.

Those two straight ugly semi-final exits were a massive red flag that a big shakeup was needed.

[bwoolf2]

It’s insane how only Booker & Ayton remain from our 2021 championship run. Never seen a finals team dismantled this badly in just a couple of years. I wonder if Booker & DA are next. Hehe

I'm not surprised.

I saw the 2nd round ceiling developing and the lightning in a bottle element that was the '20/'21 run. Mentioned it many times in here. They were a collection of very good young players about to become very expensive, but most of them were not exceptional/elite.

Those two straight ugly semi-final exits were a massive red flag that a big shakeup was needed.

Suns biggest weaknesses those last 2 years in my opinion

Length

Athleticism

Shooting,

They somehow addressed all 3 on all levels

[bwgood77]

Ayton and 6 2nds might sound quite a bit more appealing to a team than just Ayton.

[enigmatics]

Ayton and 6 2nds might sound quite a bit more appealing to a team than just Ayton.

Speaking of that ......

Check out this quote from Johnny Ball over on the general boards in the Cam Payne trade thread:

They seem to be the only ones that currently understand the CBA changes that allow teams to actually re-sign their own 2nd round picks without using their MLE makes 2nd round picks more valuable, particularly at the top/first half of the 2nd round. Not many picks hit, but the drafts keep getting deeper and the problem with 2nd rounders in past was keeping them when you were a good and capped out team, making those picks pretty worthless to those teams.


Flat out buying top half 2nd round picks right now would be a good strategy.

[Frank Lee]

If the Suns don’t sign another pg they must expect something special out of Saben Lee. Here’s hoping Lee improved drastically hence why Payne was let go.

Not comfortable with the only true point guards on the roster being Goodwin and Lee!!

I’d rather keep Ayton than try to add a pg at his expense. Point Book/Point Beal it is… and this cat Goodwin i think will be more than adequate. Have read nothing but good things and of course, hes here at the insistence of BBeal.

Not worried at all. Payne was expendable.


Dont know who exactly is behind all this creative roster finagling, but it sure seems beyond Jones’ conservative ways/history. Its almost remarkable to see where we are now, compared to just a few months ago…. With the challenges/limitations faced to get here. Hats off to someone(s)

[SunsRback4Good]

It’s insane how only Booker & Ayton remain from our 2021 championship run. Never seen a finals team dismantled this badly in just a couple of years. I wonder if Booker & DA are next. Hehe

I'm not surprised.

I saw the 2nd round ceiling developing and the lightning in a bottle element that was the '20/'21 run. Mentioned it many times in here. They were a collection of very good young players about to become very expensive, but most of them were not exceptional/elite.

Those two straight ugly semi-final exits were a massive red flag that a big shakeup was needed.

Suns biggest weaknesses those last 2 years in my opinion

Length

Athleticism

Shooting,

They somehow addressed all 3 on all levels

TMIE

Spoiler:

The Matt Ishbia Effect

[bwoolf2]

If the Suns don’t sign another pg they must expect something special out of Saben Lee. Here’s hoping Lee improved drastically hence why Payne was let go.

Not comfortable with the only true point guards on the roster being Goodwin and Lee!!

I’d rather keep Ayton than try to add a pg at his expense. Point Book it is… and this cat Goodwin i think will be more than adequate. Have read nothing but good things and of course, hes here at the insistence of BBeal.

Not worried at all. Payne was expendable.


Dont know who exactly is behind all this creative roster finagling, but it sure seems beyond Jones’ conservative ways/history. Its almost remarkable to see where we are now, compared to just a few months ago…. With the challenges/limitations faced to get here. Hats off to someone(s)

Ayton isn't getting traded at least not before the trade deadline.

But the trade exceptions are in play for sign and trade free agents out there. Ayo, oubre, wood, not sure who is left worth more than minimum but those 3 would qualify

[Frank Lee]

I really think those TEs are insurance policies at this point… Given the current roster, looks like all the backup minutes are covered adequately with solid talent. They do expire tho (i think one yr) . Kind of a sneaky good asset that might come in handy next off season even.

[bwgood77]

Ayton and 6 2nds might sound quite a bit more appealing to a team than just Ayton.

Speaking of that ......

Check out this quote from Johnny Ball over on the general boards in the Cam Payne trade thread:

They seem to be the only ones that currently understand the CBA changes that allow teams to actually re-sign their own 2nd round picks without using their MLE makes 2nd round picks more valuable, particularly at the top/first half of the 2nd round. Not many picks hit, but the drafts keep getting deeper and the problem with 2nd rounders in past was keeping them when you were a good and capped out team, making those picks pretty worthless to those teams.


Flat out buying top half 2nd round picks right now would be a good strategy.

Yeah, I saw that. My initial thought was that they are just replenishing picks as they build out the scouting department, allowing them to get developmental players on cheap contracts instead of relying on too many minimums each year. Which I still think is a good strategy, and these swaps likely don't come into play.

As to that poster's comment on buying 2nd round picks. I don't even know if that is possible anymore, especially if the cash limit is still $3 million, given that in this past draft, teams were paying a chunk just to move up a few spots in the 2nd round.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I really think those TEs are insurance policies at this point… Given the current roster, looks like all the backup minutes are covered adequately with solid talent. They do expire tho (i think one yr) . Kind of a sneaky good asset that might come in handy next off season even.

For sure. Gives them flexibility if they feel they need to augment the roster mid season. At that point some team might just give you a guy to shed a little salary.

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[SunsRback4Good]

If the Suns don’t sign another pg they must expect something special out of Saben Lee. Here’s hoping Lee improved drastically hence why Payne was let go.

Not comfortable with the only true point guards on the roster being Goodwin and Lee!!

I’d rather keep Ayton than try to add a pg at his expense. Point Book/Point Beal it is… and this cat Goodwin i think will be more than adequate. Have read nothing but good things and of course, hes here at the insistence of BBeal.

Not worried at all. Payne was expendable.


Dont know who exactly is behind all this creative roster finagling, but it sure seems beyond Jones’ conservative ways/history. Its almost remarkable to see where we are now, compared to just a few months ago…. With the challenges/limitations faced to get here. Hats off to someone(s)

Maybe now since Sarver is gone, Jones has more wiggle room to expand on different types of trades/ideas. Would be interesting if Jones is somehow responsible for 1/3rd of the roster moves or does everything fall on our new owner? Jones did have two seasons to make changes and decided to stay put hurting us in the process. But if Jones was that responsible for roster management why didn’t Ishbia get rid of him? Hmm

[bwoolf2]

Crazy ish went from 8th to 9th guy on this roster to clearly the last man, and I wouldn't be surprised if his spot isn't replaced here in the next few days.

The only players remaining on last year's roster that started the team with the Suns will be book and ayton were that to happen, pretty sure no roster has been turned over that much in a single year ever.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I've been saying over and over I doubt Ayton is traded but after the Payne trade an Ayton for Turner deal is an easy path to get under the 2nd apron this coming season.

If I had to bet money on it I'd still say DA stays but that has my antenna up a little.

Getting under this year isn't a big deal initially but it does help if they end up over in future years. The 3 times in 5 years is where the real penalties kick in and should be avoided even if you had infinite money.

Also the suns pick swapping is the NBA GM/owner version of gambling. Betting you'll be good and basically get free 2nd round picks.

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[Bogyo]

Ayton and 6 2nds might sound quite a bit more appealing to a team than just Ayton.

Speaking of that ......

Check out this quote from Johnny Ball over on the general boards in the Cam Payne trade thread:

They seem to be the only ones that currently understand the CBA changes that allow teams to actually re-sign their own 2nd round picks without using their MLE makes 2nd round picks more valuable, particularly at the top/first half of the 2nd round. Not many picks hit, but the drafts keep getting deeper and the problem with 2nd rounders in past was keeping them when you were a good and capped out team, making those picks pretty worthless to those teams.


Flat out buying top half 2nd round picks right now would be a good strategy.

Thought about this a bit as well, but I think late first are the most valueble. They have a bit higher rate of success than seconds, and money is not much bigger. Plus from what I've seen we are getting late seconds (50+), not early ones. But in the new CBA seconds are better than the previous CBA thats for sure. You just got to hit one out of the park every 10 years and you are good.