Sixers Offseason Thread Part 4

FireMorey · Post #541 » by **FireMorey** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:07 pm

No teams wanting Harden should be just as big of an angle to this as Morey driving a hard bargain.

And frankly, if Harden had any humility, it should be a wake up call that not a single team is interested in this guy and the one team that is, isn't willing to offer anything of substance.

His value is at an all-time low. If he wants to be a problem child in camp or bring a fat suit, go ahead dude. Your value is already in ruins. If you want to make them smoldering ruins be my guest.

Mik317 · Post #542 » by **Mik317** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:49 pm

Biid's injuries have come mostly on him attempting to be superman and block shots he should just let go and our downfall on offense is him trying to do the offense version of that on bad wheels.

Its not about sitting out games and being rested for the playoffs. He took off via not rebounding or going full tilt on defense for most of the year... they have to build a system that does not require him to be perfect for it to function...and for him to be willing to take a slightly lesser role on offense. Even in the Nets series that we swept, the whole game plan was to force feed him the ball on offense and the Nets responded by forcing him to make reads all day. Luckily they did it in a stupid ass fashion so it didn't work but it was bad. There has to be better ways to run an offense that gets him easy looks and doesn't require as much on ball time. As for the other end, I just don't think you want your best player to basically be the put out fires guy every single play.... the over helping and the poor off ball IQ/Efforts of the other 4 dudes has to be cleaned up so maybe then Biid doesn't have to over extend himself for a block like an idiot all the time. This is where ideally coaching will be a huge help as I think Doc ideology was just let them figure it out too often and we don't have the dudes for that sadly lol.

The funniest thing is that the "perfect" Biid team was that first year team in theory. Ben was an elite on ball defender and rebounder, and a fastbreak starter. That allowed Biid to not have to worry about at least that matchup and also not the rebounds and despite the agnst about fit or not working in the playoffs, the Ben fastbreaks was an actual different looks. Just that he hampered the offense too much in the half court lol. JJ and Biid was a great combo and again a different look on offense with the DHO...I do think people take for granted how elite JJ's off ball movement shooting was and how difficult it is to replicate; Curry was more comfortable in the mid range and needed a bit more set up for his jumpers. Cov was another on ball guy that Biid didn't have to cover for and an unrepentant shooter..perfect 3 and D guy (except his 3 often ran away lol). Dario as the swiss army knife 4 man who can stretch the floor and also rebound again was a solid fit next to Biid. Fultz was supposed to be what Harden did for Biid so yeah. The thought process behind that team was the blueprint IMO. So while not those guys I'd be looking for a shooter to pair with Biid (maybe this is Maxey), two on ball defenders ideally who can and will shoot high volume from deep, a secondary shot creator (this is what Darryl claims to be looking for), and a not washed PJ Tucker 4 man lol. Get Biid a capable back up and a bench that isn't total zeros and that might be just enough to overcome any Biid is sad today games and could ideally make it so he is "fresh" when needed. Giannis and Jokic are better than he is ATM..can no longer deny that...HOWEVER...both get to rest on defense and offense at times thanks to their teammates. Now this is partially due to them being willing and IDK if Biid is as he looks pissed when its not his time to cook but still thats the IDEA I'd chase in these final years

76ciology · Post #543 » by **76ciology** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 4:58 pm

I think Terance Mann is overrated. His biggest strength is his scoring/shooting % as a role player and effort?

76ciology · Post #544 » by **76ciology** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:16 pm

I think the perfect team for Biid is 2018-2019 team. Ben at the dunker spot, pushing the ball on the break, perimeter defense, transition defense and being an all around ROLE player was the right role. Jimmy taking lead in halfcourt offense, passing lanes while being able to run DHO with JJ. Tobi playing two ways and being 4th option on offense.

Spoiler:

Biid was just not that good with his mid range back then, Tobi shot 52TS% in the playoffs and Ben is not happy with his role.

Jailblazers7 · Post #545 » by **Jailblazers7** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:25 pm

76ciology wrote:I think Terance Mann is overrated. His biggest strength is his scoring/shooting % as a role player and effort?

I think the bull case is that he's a Bruce Brown style roleplayer. Fits into a variety of lineups & roles so he can unlock a lot of lineup flexibility. Definitely a player you'd like to add to the current team with Harden but not someone you'd trade for as centerpiece.

Mik317 · Post #546 » by **Mik317** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 5:37 pm

Mann's case is that he had a big game in the playoffs and might be being held back by PG, Kawhii and Lue and there is some upside left despite his age.

On paper, he can shoot, he can handle it a bit, and he is solid on defense. Feels like a theoretical jack of all trades type.

IDK about the actual aspect tho...so he could just be a taller Melton...which is useful but still.

He is the best player that they can realistically offer tho... Powell's contract is bad; Morris is **** washed (and bad IMO) and Cov is also very washed. Bones feels redundant with Maxey here and was gotten for basically free so his value around the league doesn't seem great. I like the idea of Brandon Boston but he's probably not good lol. Kobe Brown did body us in summer league tho so maybe he's the guy they are waiting for the deadline for?

the_process · Post #547 » by **the_process** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:47 pm

Clippers aren't giving much of that stuff. If any at all.

They want him for Powell, Morris, and Covington/Batum. Which I get from their end, and I also get why Morey says pound sand.

Anyway, if a deal cannot be reached by the end of August, I would suspend Harden with pay and tell Jo he has a season ending injury. If we're wasting the year, then waste it purposefully. Let Maxey go ham and earn his next deal and see if he can develop his playmaking and how many wins he gets essentially by himself.

Arsenal · Post #548 » by **Arsenal** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:51 pm

the_process wrote:Clippers aren't giving much of that stuff. If any at all.

They want him for Powell, Morris, and Covington/Batum. Which I get from their end, and I also get why Morey says pound sand.

Anyway, if a deal cannot be reached by the end of August, I would suspend Harden with pay and tell Jo he has a season ending injury. If we're wasting the year, then waste it purposefully. Let Maxey go ham and earn his next deal and see if he can develop his playmaking and how many wins he gets essentially by himself.

Don't think it's realistic but this would be for the best. I'd actually enjoy watching it, at least for awhile.

Post #549 » by **Ben** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:00 pm

Mik317 wrote:Mann's case is that he had a big game in the playoffs and might be being held back by PG, Kawhii and Lue and there is some upside left despite his age.

On paper, he can shoot, he can handle it a bit, and he is solid on defense. Feels like a theoretical jack of all trades type.

IDK about the actual aspect tho...so he could just be a taller Melton...which is useful but still.

He is the best player that they can realistically offer tho... Powell's contract is bad; Morris is **** washed (and bad IMO) and Cov is also very washed. Bones feels redundant with Maxey here and was gotten for basically free so his value around the league doesn't seem great. I like the idea of Brandon Boston but he's probably not good lol. Kobe Brown did body us in summer league tho so maybe he's the guy they are waiting for the deadline for?

I haven't been super psyched about Mann in the sense that I haven't bought the Clips' apparent argument that he's a promising young player. I mean, he's played 4 full seasons and he came into the league relatively old so he's entering this season at around 27. Not as if he hasn't had a chance. But the best case one could make for the "held back by stars" argument is that he's been much better as a starter than coming off the bench. His 2022-23 splits show him shooting shooting 43% from 3P range in his 36 games as a starter (about 14.7 points per 36 minutes) and 34.1% from 3P range in his 45 games coming off the bench (about 12.6 points per 36). Similar type of split the year before.

Iverson Armband · Post #550 » by **Iverson Armband** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:02 pm

Nobody is going to gift us a ticket to contention or load us up for the future for freaking Harden.

Mann is fine. I just hope the Clips come to the table with some expirings and pick or two as well.

Skates · Post #551 » by **Skates** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:56 pm

if the Clippers make a move for Harden it is an all in move for this season, maybe for the next couple of seasons if Ballmer ponies up to pay PG, Kawhi and Harden in the summer, but either way their timeline is very short and they will want to keep ready to contribute guys like Powell and Mann.

Mann is a guy I liked a few years ago and if he was a taller Melton that would be awesome, but my worry is that he is more of another Shake Milton guy who is a modest role player that can occasionally flash and tease but is more suited to being a good player on a bad team guy like Shake was whenever we were shorthanded.

Back to the subject at hand, Kobe Brown and future draft picks, plus expirings are the best offer from the Clips if they make a reasonable offer. They need to win now (questionable with Harden or without) and we need ammunition to attach to Harris or cap space to hunt for one big star or go the Denver route and get guys more at the Aaron Gordon/MPJ level sort of stars, sort of very high end role players that are excellent fits with Embiid and Maxey. We night also be able to spin some of those expiring guys at the deadline to replenish our second round pick cache too.

Bones Hyland looked like he was a problem in Denver and did not show much in LAC and hence I have little interest in him, I'd rather go after Boston and one of the Kenyon Martin as other possibly valuable young assets to trade or play.

Arsenal · Post #552 » by **Arsenal** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:07 pm

Bones still has major upside. Would like to sneak him into any LAC deal. Could be our 6th man scorer of the future.

Jailblazers7 · Post #553 » by **Jailblazers7** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:24 pm

I'd have no interest in Bones Hyland. Dude is destined to be dropping highlights in Turkey for the next 10 years.

If we want a young bench guard, I'd rather engage the Knicks to see if we could build a trade around Quickly/Grimes. They're never gonna deal with us tho because they're just circling hoping that Embiid demands a trade.

the_process · Post #554 » by **the_process** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:34 pm

Would you do Harden and Korkmaz for Marcus Morris, Covington, Batum, Kobe Brown, and a UNP 2028 1st?

I mean, that’s not very good, but it’s likely to be about the maximum you can get.

Which then begs the question: who can you get for that package with Springer and a 2029 1st added to it?

If the answer isn’t a player at least on the level of a LaVine or Siakam, then Morey won’t do it.

FireMorey · Post #555 » by **FireMorey** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:40 pm

Harden putting out nonsense on instagram now.

Philly's Best · Post #556 » by **Philly's Best** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:56 pm

Shave the beard and lose some weight :lol:

Jailblazers7 · Post #557 » by **Jailblazers7** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:13 pm

That's rich coming from Harden...a guy who hasn't change his lifestyle, playing style, physical appearance, social circle, or really anything else for a decade.

Post #558 » by **Ben** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:02 pm

Maybe that means that he's been on high-paying, long-term contracts for a long time, always with expectations of future contracts, and now it's time to get uncomfortable by having to play this season as well as he can without knowing what'll come next. :meditate:

Arsenal · Post #559 » by **Arsenal** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:23 pm

the_process wrote:Would you do Harden and Korkmaz for Marcus Morris, Covington, Batum, Kobe Brown, and a UNP 2028 1st?

I mean, that’s not very good, but it’s likely to be about the maximum you can get.

Which then begs the question: who can you get for that package with Springer and a 2029 1st added to it?

If the answer isn’t a player at least on the level of a LaVine or Siakam, then Morey won’t do it.

Change Korkmaz to Tucker and add another 1st or a 1st swap and I could live with it.

youngcrev · Post #560 » by **youngcrev** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:25 pm

the_process wrote:Would you do Harden and Korkmaz for Marcus Morris, Covington, Batum, Kobe Brown, and a UNP 2028 1st?

I mean, that’s not very good, but it’s likely to be about the maximum you can get.

Which then begs the question: who can you get for that package with Springer and a 2029 1st added to it?

If the answer isn’t a player at least on the level of a LaVine or Siakam, then Morey won’t do it.

No. At least not right now I wouldn't.

Springer is a toss-in in a trade, not a real asset. I think if he's still here past the trade deadline, the odds of them not picking up his 4M option are greater than the odds that they do.