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Our three 2-way players?

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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#41 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:06 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:It will be interesting to see if Butler can be a defense bender in place of Wright. His off-the-dribble 3-point game looks real good in G-League and Summer League. If that holds up and teams have to go topside on the pick-and-roll, he can get the defense into rotation and create for his teammates.

Note that in his rookie year Landry Shamet shot the 3 at .425 on 9+ attempts per 40 minutes. He's never equaled that, but his career % is .388. He can shoot the 3.

Yeah, but can he do it off the dribble? The 2nd unit needs a guy to initiate offensive sets. If your primary ball handler has a reliable off-the-dribble 3-point shot, you can run high pick-and-roll and force the defense to either switch the screen or trap the ball-handler with a double team. Either way, that gives the offense an advantage because you either have a mismatch or a 4-on-3 situation.

But it only works if the ball-handler can shoot 3's off the bounce with a quick release. I don't think Shamet has demonstrated much of an aptitude for this. Shamet is a catch-and-shoot guy, which is useful, but not what you need as a primary initiator of the offense.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#42 » by Frichuela » Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:49 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:It will be interesting to see if Butler can be a defense bender in place of Wright. His off-the-dribble 3-point game looks real good in G-League and Summer League. If that holds up and teams have to go topside on the pick-and-roll, he can get the defense into rotation and create for his teammates.

Note that in his rookie year Landry Shamet shot the 3 at .425 on 9+ attempts per 40 minutes. He's never equaled that, but his career % is .388. He can shoot the 3.

Yeah, but can he do it off the dribble? The 2nd unit needs a guy to initiate offensive sets. If your primary ball handler has a reliable off-the-dribble 3-point shot, you can run high pick-and-roll and force the defense to either switch the screen or trap the ball-handler with a double team. Either way, that gives the offense an advantage because you either have a mismatch or a 4-on-3 situation.

But it only works if the ball-handler can shoot 3's off the bounce with a quick release. I don't think Shamet has demonstrated much of an aptitude for this. Shamet is a catch-and-shoot guy, which is useful, but not what you need as a primary initiator of the offense.


This. Butler could potentially be this type of guy. Shamet ain't.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#43 » by NatP4 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:14 pm

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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#44 » by NatP4 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:21 pm

G-league regular season (810 minutes):

20.0 points 7.5 assists 3.9 rebounds 1.1 steals 2.5 turnovers 55% TS

G-league showcase (542 minutes):

23.3 points 6.2 assists 4.6 rebounds 1.4 steals 3.3 turnovers 63% TS

OKC gave the bulk of the NBA minutes to SGA, Giddey, Jalen Williams, Tre Mann, Lu Dort, and Isaiah Joe. No room for a guard.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#45 » by daSwami » Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:16 pm

Man, great get! I loved Butler at Baylor.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#46 » by pcbothwel » Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:18 pm

NatP4 wrote:G-league regular season (810 minutes):

20.0 points 7.5 assists 3.9 rebounds 1.1 steals 2.5 turnovers 55% TS

G-league showcase (542 minutes):

23.3 points 6.2 assists 4.6 rebounds 1.4 steals 3.3 turnovers 63% TS

OKC gave the bulk of the NBA minutes to SGA, Giddey, Jalen Williams, Tre Mann, Lu Dort, and Isaiah Joe. No room for a guard.


You and I were both on the Butler train. I was so bummed we didnt draft him.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#47 » by payitforward » Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:27 pm

If I remember rightly, Ruzious was the biggest Jared Butler supporter....

Man I wish he would check in here -- at least to let us know he's ok....

C'mon Ruzious...!
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#48 » by NatP4 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:42 pm

Ruz was all over Mitchell and Butler before either of them were potential lottery picks.

Definitely miss his input on the draft board.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#49 » by doclinkin » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:05 pm

nate33 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Wright - size, IQ
Johnny D - hustle, rebounding
Bilal - length, shot blocking
Deni - positioning, footwork, angles, team play, IQ
Gafford - rim protection

... Butler...


There's no offense at all though.

As you said, Gafford won't be with the bench, it'll probably be Muscala. But at least Muscala opens things up a bit and allows Deni, Coulibali and Davis to attack a closeout and get to the rim while their shotblocker has to stick to Muscala spotting up. But they're still going to need a defense bender to get the offense going. Presumably, that will be Poole, probably in place of Davis.

It will be interesting to see if Butler can be a defense bender in place of Wright. His off-the-dribble 3-point game looks real good in G-League and Summer League. If that holds up and teams have to go topside on the pick-and-roll, he can get the defense into rotation and create for his teammates.


Right, in college Butler was noted as a 2-way player, hitting 41% from 3 in his championship season, while noted for his defense.

That said while I was mostly sketching this as an exercise to highlight the defensive potential on the roster, I wouldn't say there is zero offense. Defensive stops lead to fast break opportunities. That is an area where players like Deni and Bilal have a useful skillset. Gafford too.

I expect Bilal to struggle while assembling an NBA toolkit on offense. What he can do well is outpace the defense with long smooth strides, has shown a bit of wiggle in evading defenses on the break to slam it home. Likewise 'Turbo' mode Deni runs past most 3's & 4's in the league. Gafford too has the athletic edge on most bigs. Johnny D runs his heart out every play.

The fact that none of these players easily create for themselves in a crowd or against a set defense is another reason I'd like to see each get more opportunities in a 'Stops and Sprints' sort of line-up. All of the players listed need opportunities for easy buckets, need to develop confidence. Nothing rewards a player more than seeing the ball go through the hoop. No doubt we don't see long minutes in this exact configuration, but I can see playing this line --with one sub here or there-- to build a defensive wall and rest the starters. I can see the core of this group able to stifle and stymie opponent lines that are based on skill and finesse, if not stop the super big power line-ups.

Personally, of course I want to land a skilled 2 way starting Center, so that Gafford can play with maximum effort in whatever minutes he can earn. But you know, everybody wants that guy. Still, just saying, with ironclad outside defenders who give max effort, a team can afford to play a drop coverage defensive Big where otherwise they'd be stuck to the bench.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#50 » by BearlyBallin » Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:40 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20

He’s probably ending up with the GoGo, but I suppose there is still that open 2way contract

Young big who was a McDonalds All American & 5 star recruit in HS. Choose to play with the GLeague Ignite.
Was a rotation player with Delaware when they won the GLeague championship last year I think.
Only 20 years old.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#51 » by wewillnevertank » Wed Oct 11, 2023 10:42 pm

BearlyBallin wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20

He’s probably ending up with the GoGo, but I suppose there is still that open 2way contract

Young big who was a McDonalds All American & 5 star recruit in HS. Choose to play with the GLeague Ignite.
Was a rotation player with Delaware when they won the GLeague championship last year I think.
Only 20 years old.


I would gladly convert his Exhibit 10 to a 2-way after camp assuming that's even on the table. Great rebounding forward with a nice offensive toolkit. I liked him better than Nzosa going into last year's draft.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#52 » by BearlyBallin » Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:07 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20

We got a 20 year old PF/C signed to the third 2-way spot

Says he’s a 190 lbs and 7 ft tall.

Hmm someone please put him on a Brazilian Steakhouse Meal plan.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#53 » by BearlyBallin » Mon Mar 3, 2025 5:57 am

Wizards have a two-way contract slot open after signing Champagnie to a standard NBA contract.

Do they sign someone from the Go Go like they have done in the past? Or maybe look elsewhere…

I hope they consider:

Read on Twitter


Armel Traore F 6-9 220 lbs 7-3 wingspan 22yo

or



Malevy Leon’s F 6-9 210 lbs 7-1 wingspan 25yo
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#54 » by closg00 » Mon Mar 3, 2025 12:56 pm

It may be best to see how things shakeout in the draft, we will probably need that spot for one our 2nd rounders if we don't do a stash, we need front court depth clearly.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#55 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 3, 2025 1:37 pm

No need. We can still sign a 2 way guy for the rest of this season.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#56 » by gambitx777 » Mon Mar 3, 2025 1:40 pm

Amel traore should have been invited by now. He's great and should have been involved in the Luka trade.

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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#57 » by BearlyBallin » Mon Mar 3, 2025 2:19 pm

closg00 wrote:It may be best to see how things shakeout in the draft, we will probably need that spot for one our 2nd rounders if we don't do a stash, we need front court depth clearly.


I lean towards the idea that this front office will use the second round picks to move up in the draft. Especially if Rasheer Fleming is available.
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#58 » by BearlyBallin » Mon Mar 3, 2025 11:35 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#59 » by AFM » Tue Mar 4, 2025 12:46 am

we really got a fella named THOR
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Re: Our three 2-way players? 

Post#60 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Mar 4, 2025 4:11 am

AFM wrote:we really got a fella named THOR


Thor was a straight up baller in summer league if I remember right.
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