**The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two**

[Klomp]

Dane brought up a good point. The struggles against the horrible teams could largely be attributed to KAT's injury and just poor performances when he did play. Just looking at the games he missed with injury, they went 1-6 against the sub-30 win teams. In the games he played against those teams, they were 3-4. Still not good, but a big difference. You could also point to one of those losses being the game where Towns was (selfishly) trying to make a statement by refusing to shoot after Finch said the ball was too sticky in the previous game, so otherwise .500. There was a 19 points on 22 shots. Before he hurt himself in Washington, had just 8 points on 6 shots in 22 minutes.

These weren't empty stat games where they lost but Towns still put up amazing numbers. He's still very important to the team's success.

[minimus]

Dane brought up a good point. The struggles against the horrible teams could largely be attributed to KAT's injury and just poor performances when he did play. Just looking at the games he missed with injury, they went 1-6 against the sub-30 win teams. In the games he played against those teams, they were 3-4. Still not good, but a big difference. You could also point to one of those losses being the game where Towns was (selfishly) trying to make a statement by refusing to shoot after Finch said the ball was too sticky in the previous game, so otherwise .500. There was a 19 points on 22 shots. Before he hurt himself in Washington, had just 8 points on 6 shots in 22 minutes.

These weren't empty stat games where they lost but Towns still put up amazing numbers. He's still very important to the team's success.

If we need Towns to beat worst teams in NBA then we are in trouble. It is not that we lacked talent. We lacked focus and effort. We also lacked bench depth comparing to two season ago, when we had Vando, Beasley, Beverley and healthy McLaughlin. Hopefully this year our bench wont let us down.

[shrink]

Dane brought up a good point. The struggles against the horrible teams could largely be attributed to KAT's injury and just poor performances when he did play. Just looking at the games he missed with injury, they went 1-6 against the sub-30 win teams. In the games he played against those teams, they were 3-4. Still not good, but a big difference. You could also point to one of those losses being the game where Towns was (selfishly) trying to make a statement by refusing to shoot after Finch said the ball was too sticky in the previous game, so otherwise .500. There was a 19 points on 22 shots. Before he hurt himself in Washington, had just 8 points on 6 shots in 22 minutes.

These weren't empty stat games where they lost but Towns still put up amazing numbers. He's still very important to the team's success.

If we need Towns to beat worst teams in NBA then we are in trouble. It is not that we lacked talent. We lacked focus and effort. We also lacked bench depth comparing to two season ago, when we had Vando, Beasley, Beverley and healthy McLaughlin. Hopefully this year our bench wont let us down.

Interesting stuff. I would like to see what the Wolves numbers are against bad teams with and without Towns in a larger sample.

I don’t see Towns as some “Rah Rah, Let’s take it to the Hornets Tonight!”-type of cheerleader. But he is a difficult and somewhat unique type of match up issue, that bad teams with young players might not have the personnel/experience to defend. Ant is great offensively, but he is a magnified version of what they are already taught to defend. Also, this isn’t Ant or Towns - it’s Ant PLUS Towns and both make the other harder for opposing teams to focus on.

The other issue here (brace yourself if you believe Ant can do nothing wrong) has to be Ant. He was at these games, and by my recollection, he played better against tough teams, and worse against lesser ones. If we are going to anoint him as leader of the team, he needs to do better himself, and inspire the team more, on a Tuesday night in San Antonio. I think he is very capable of making that step, because he is highly competitive and his teammates love him, but this is an area that the very young player needs to improve. Taurean Prince and DLo aren’t capable of rallying the team like Ant may soon be able to do.

[TimberKat]

Could someone explain the difference between Towns and Brown's max contract. I think both their extensions kicks in 2024(?) Towns is 224/4 56m per year. Brown is 304/5 60m per year. Aren't all supermax supposed to be the same 35% of cap? Or is the starting salary is based on the cap of the day they sign instead of the season when it starts?

[twolves31]

Could someone explain the difference between Towns and Brown's max contract. I think both their extensions kicks in 2024(?) Towns is 224/4 56m per year. Brown is 304/5 60m per year. Aren't all supermax supposed to be the same 35% of cap? Or is the starting salary is based on the cap of the day they sign instead of the season when it starts?

I'm not sure what the rules are on it, if you get less on Kat's 4 year extension with 2 years still left on your contract vs Jaylen's 5 year extension with 1 year left. It looks like Jaylen is getting about 3 million more per season for the 4 years of Kats contract and than 69 million the final year.

[shrink]

Could someone explain the difference between Towns and Brown's max contract. I think both their extensions kicks in 2024(?) Towns is 224/4 56m per year. Brown is 304/5 60m per year. Aren't all supermax supposed to be the same 35% of cap? Or is the starting salary is based on the cap of the day they sign instead of the season when it starts?

The thing to remember about contracts like these are that they don’t even have a starting number in them, they have the words “35% of the 2024 salary cap.” Right now, we don’t know what that number is. The bean-counters need to add up all of last year’s Basketball Related Income (BRI), which they will do next season during the moratorium. When that number is determined, they fill in all the numbers for the future years, based on 8% raises. Supermaxes are only 35% the first year, and slowly decline, since the raises don’t keep up with the 10% rise in the cap. Contracts aren’t based on when they’re signed, they’re based on the value of the first year when the deal kicks in.

Looking at Spotrac, it looks like the estimates for the contracts are the same amount for Years 1-4. Towns has a player option on Year 4, and it looks like Brown has a five year deal.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves/yearly/cap/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/yearly/cap/

[Klomp]

Could someone explain the difference between Towns and Brown's max contract. I think both their extensions kicks in 2024(?) Towns is 224/4 56m per year. Brown is 304/5 60m per year. Aren't all supermax supposed to be the same 35% of cap? Or is the starting salary is based on the cap of the day they sign instead of the season when it starts?

As shrink explained, these extensions are announced based on salary cap projections. When KAT's was reported, it was 4/$224 million because that's what a 4-year deal starting at 35% of the cap would come to. The $224 million was not firm, and I'm guessing would be more like $235 million at this point based on the most recent projections. The other big difference is the extra year for Brown, which should come in around $70 million once the financials are finalized. Also, year 4 for Towns is a player option (smart move on his part).

[Klomp]

Dane brought up a good point. The struggles against the horrible teams could largely be attributed to KAT's injury and just poor performances when he did play. Just looking at the games he missed with injury, they went 1-6 against the sub-30 win teams. In the games he played against those teams, they were 3-4. Still not good, but a big difference. You could also point to one of those losses being the game where Towns was (selfishly) trying to make a statement by refusing to shoot after Finch said the ball was too sticky in the previous game, so otherwise .500. There was a 19 points on 22 shots. Before he hurt himself in Washington, had just 8 points on 6 shots in 22 minutes.

These weren't empty stat games where they lost but Towns still put up amazing numbers. He's still very important to the team's success.

If we need Towns to beat worst teams in NBA then we are in trouble. It is not that we lacked talent. We lacked focus and effort. We also lacked bench depth comparing to two season ago, when we had Vando, Beasley, Beverley and healthy McLaughlin. Hopefully this year our bench wont let us down.

It's worth noting, most of those losses were also before the trade deadline. (ie. Russell to blame for a lot of those focus issues)

[Dewey]

Dane brought up a good point. The struggles against the horrible teams could largely be attributed to KAT's injury and just poor performances when he did play. Just looking at the games he missed with injury, they went 1-6 against the sub-30 win teams. In the games he played against those teams, they were 3-4. Still not good, but a big difference. You could also point to one of those losses being the game where Towns was (selfishly) trying to make a statement by refusing to shoot after Finch said the ball was too sticky in the previous game, so otherwise .500. There was a 19 points on 22 shots. Before he hurt himself in Washington, had just 8 points on 6 shots in 22 minutes.

These weren't empty stat games where they lost but Towns still put up amazing numbers. He's still very important to the team's success.

If we need Towns to beat worst teams in NBA then we are in trouble. It is not that we lacked talent. We lacked focus and effort. We also lacked bench depth comparing to two season ago, when we had Vando, Beasley, Beverley and healthy McLaughlin. Hopefully this year our bench wont let us down.

It's worth noting, most of those losses were also before the trade deadline. (ie. Russell to blame for a lot of those focus issues)

Russell … glad he’s not here.

[Klomp]

Sometimes I wish Towns wasn’t so petty.

I keep thinking about that Portland game in April. Coming off a loss to the Lakers, Finch said that the ball got too sticky. He probably said more behind closed doors, but obviously we can’t know that for sure. Towns responded against Portland by attempting just 3 field goals in a two point loss.

Towns responded strongly by closing the rest of the season averaging 25/10/5 over the last three games, but I think everyone still had the bad taste in their mouths from the Blazers game.

[minimus]

Sometimes I wish Towns wasn’t so petty.

I keep thinking about that Portland game in April. Coming off a loss to the Lakers, Finch said that the ball got too sticky. He probably said more behind closed doors, but obviously we can’t know that for sure. Towns responded against Portland by attempting just 3 field goals in a two point loss.

Towns responded strongly by closing the rest of the season averaging 25/10/5 over the last three games, but I think everyone still had the bad taste in their mouths from the Blazers game.

I have a question though. Let say Finch want more ball movement, but Finch sets offer only plays to initiate offense, giving more room for players like Edwards for improvisation. In other words, maybe it is not about Towns being petty, maybe it is about Towns ability to make right, quick decisions. It is ongoing debate give our offense more structure or give our players more freedom. This question have been floating around Finch recently, and I hope he finds right balance.

[TimberKat]

Sometimes I wish Towns wasn’t so petty.

I keep thinking about that Portland game in April. Coming off a loss to the Lakers, Finch said that the ball got too sticky. He probably said more behind closed doors, but obviously we can’t know that for sure. Towns responded against Portland by attempting just 3 field goals in a two point loss.

Towns responded strongly by closing the rest of the season averaging 25/10/5 over the last three games, but I think everyone still had the bad taste in their mouths from the Blazers game.

I have a question though. Let say Finch want more ball movement, but Finch sets offer only plays to initiate offense, giving more room for players like Edwards for improvisation. In other words, maybe it is not about Towns being petty, maybe it is about Towns ability to make right, quick decisions. It is ongoing debate give our offense more structure or give our players more freedom. This question have been floating around Finch recently, and I hope he finds right balance.

Finch wants more free flow player decision but I think with this group we need more structure. There were a few games last year where we were doing great for 3 qtr then offense just stop moving for various reasons. I think having more structured plays help to get the offense back in motion. Also I am looking for that good DLo guy to break down the defense when Ant/Towns are out of gas. Maybe it's Naz /Milton playing that role this year

[Klomp]

Sometimes I wish Towns wasn’t so petty.

I keep thinking about that Portland game in April. Coming off a loss to the Lakers, Finch said that the ball got too sticky. He probably said more behind closed doors, but obviously we can’t know that for sure. Towns responded against Portland by attempting just 3 field goals in a two point loss.

Towns responded strongly by closing the rest of the season averaging 25/10/5 over the last three games, but I think everyone still had the bad taste in their mouths from the Blazers game.

I have a question though. Let say Finch want more ball movement, but Finch sets offer only plays to initiate offense, giving more room for players like Edwards for improvisation. In other words, maybe it is not about Towns being petty, maybe it is about Towns ability to make right, quick decisions. It is ongoing debate give our offense more structure or give our players more freedom. This question have been floating around Finch recently, and I hope he finds right balance.

No, I think it was pure pettiness from him in that specific example, at least.

In a bizarre performance, Towns attempted a career-low three shots in the game. He hit one 3-pointer and five free throws, grabbed nine rebounds and turned it over three times. Two days after he said he had “a lot of things to say at practice” following the loss to the Lakers, Towns left the locker room before the media was allowed in, something he has almost never done in eight years in the NBA.

“We talked a lot about KAT trying to fit into the flow of the offense, and I think he was a bit too passive tonight,” coach Chris Finch said. “So we needed him to still stay aggressive. I thought in his second shift when he went out there, he drew a lot of fouls, but he wasn’t aggressive throughout the rest of the opportunities.”
--
“I think our shot distribution is out of whack a little bit,” Finch said. “I think guys are maybe in their feelings a little bit, trying to figure it out.”

https://theathletic.com/4374868/2023/04/03/minnesota-timberwolves-blazers-loss-nba-playoffs/

He takes things and blows them to the extreme (kind of like some posters here ). That does no one any good. He knows better. He knows that fitting into the flow doesn't mean taking only three field goals in 25 minutes.

[Klomp]

He takes things and blows them to the extreme (kind of like some posters here ). That does no one any good. He knows better. He knows that fitting into the flow doesn't mean taking only three field goals in 25 minutes.

But then look at how he responded over the last three games:
25 ppg (53/47/83), 10 rpg, 5 apg

That is his talent level. He knows it. Everyone knows it. Quit with these petty games and just do what you do.

[Calinks]

That's just it with Towns. If it wasn't for his mental flaws, I'd be damn near 100 percent against trading him. It's the silly stuff that just makes it a lot easier to move on. Being that petty and dropping a game to make a point is just a horrible look. A lot of star players are kind of crazy and at least Towns for the most part seems innocusly crazy, he's not out here getting into fights or doing drugs or something wild but this is its own kind of drama and while more manageable, its still frustrating. That combined with his mental woes in the playoffs really hurts his value as a fan.

[shrink]

Alot of star players are kind of crazy and at least Towns for the most part seems innocusly crazy, he's not out here getting into fights or doing drugs or something wild but this is its own kind of drama and while more manageable, its still frustrating.

That reminds me - some recent podcast I listened to featured a Wolves guy who was talking about Towns with guys from other organizations in Las Vegas. I think we miss this, but he said they mentioned how rare it is to have a star player that isn’t pressuring their front office. It has become commonplace these days for stars to use their leverage of player empowerment (“or I’ll demand a trade to a single team!”) to get the team to hire or fire the people they want, causing major franchise-level changes. Players generally are pretty bad at those decisions - Garnett hurt us there. The bottom line from those guys was that we don’t know how lucky we have it - KAT doesn’t threaten the front office, even though he gets all of the backlash when the TEAM loses.

I agree, it’s frustrating to see KAT do a single game to make a statement to the coach, but if we complained about it to other teams, they’d tell us how spoiled we were.

[Calinks]

Alot of star players are kind of crazy and at least Towns for the most part seems innocusly crazy, he's not out here getting into fights or doing drugs or something wild but this is its own kind of drama and while more manageable, its still frustrating.

That reminds me - some recent podcast I listened to featured a Wolves guy who was talking about Towns with guys from other organizations in Las Vegas. I think we miss this, but he said they mentioned how rare it is to have a star player that isn’t pressuring their front office. It has become commonplace these days for stars to use their leverage of player empowerment (“or I’ll demand a trade to a single team!”) to get the team to hire or fire the people they want, causing major franchise-level changes. Players generally are pretty bad at those decisions - Garnett hurt us there. The bottom line from those guys was that we don’t know how lucky we have it - KAT doesn’t threaten the front office, even though he gets all of the backlash when the TEAM loses.

I agree, it’s frustrating to see KAT do a single game to make a statement to the coach, but if we complained about it to other teams, they’d tell us how spoiled we were.

I have seen KAT take some blame for some front office stuff I don't know if its warranted or not though. Some blamed him for us getting Dlo because Dlo was his buddy. A lot of people, my brother included blamed him last year for the ambiguity around his injury and return. I thought it was the front office but I guess Dane Moor or someone eventually said KAT did play a role in keeping all that kind of mum.

It's not the worst of offenses. Like you said, KG hurt us a time or two with roaster demands and KG also got into some scuffles that may have messed up team chemistry. We have seen what a disgruntled Butler can do. OR how Ben Simmons can poison a season. Towns hasn't shown a capacity to do all of that although I think he def could demand a trade or whatever if the conditions are right.

Still I think for the most part he's been a really good professional which is not always the case with stars. He shows up and even usually, shows up when things are going horribly and its harder to show up. He has generally shown he's a reliable guy to have around when the chips are down and that bodes well for his reliability when things are good. I just wish he would cut down on a lot of the emotional and annoying stuff.

[fattymcgee]

According to Jack Borman on Twitter:

"The Wolves' best two-man lineup pairings by net rating since KAT returned (min 20 MP):

1) KAT/Naz (+28.7)
2) KAT/Ant (+21.2)
3) KAT/Prince (+19.4)
4) Rudy/Ant (+10.5)
5) KAT/Conley (+8.4)
6) KAT/Rudy (+5.8)
7) KAT/Slow-Mo (+5.4)"

Definitely need to get rid of KAT.

[Klomp]

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[m2002brian]

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Lol

BBall index about to get canceled from the forum with the F rating.