The Official Jaden McDaniels Thread

[shrink]

We may not always agree, but I'm tired of getting my head bit off every time I say something less than flattering about Gobert.

I even made a concerted effort to note a part of Shrink's post I agreed with at the end of my post but he cropped that out and went all out to flame my Gobert take. I don't need your psychobabble about my intentions.
I'd rather we just agree to disagree about Gobert moving forward.

You’re tired? We’re all tired.

CAN you move forward on Gobert? Do you still need to turn every thread into an exaggerated WoT complaint, over and over?

I'm not going to cease from discussing Gobert just because it triggers you.
He's a big part of the team and will keep popping up in many areas including trades, salary cap issues and teammates.

You're the one who keeps flaming and exaggerating my Gobert takes, thereby thrusting him to the forefront of the discussion, instead of discussing him as part of the entire picture, which includes comparisons to Jaden McDaniels as above average interior/perimeter defenders and what is the relative value of that, as well as the effect of his contract on a potential Jaden extension.

I''m not going to respond to anything you say about Gobert anymore though or anything you say about something I said about Gobert,
Because at this point we are both hopelessly dug in and it's not good for anyone.
That's very unlikely to change until they start playing basketball games again.
Please do the same if you can't keep it from being about me.

I don't see anything out of line I said in this thread other than maybe overenthusiastic posting.
I didn't deserve that last tirade. You're better than that.

Dude, I’m not flaming your takes. I’m flaming your “facts.” And I’m flaming your abuse of the board, inserting your Rudy “facts” into threads where they don’t apply.

You want evidence? Just scroll back only two pages. I didn’t introduce Gobert into the Jaden McDaniel discussion. I said C’s are not the RB’s of the NFL, and this was off topic. You tried to turn it into Gobert, and I answered one line, saying I wasn’t referring to Rudy. Then YOU specifically asked ME about Gobert. I posted a paragraph about wanting to see Jaden and Rudy together. Then you went off on another, Wall of Text, Anti-Rudy rant, and 90% had absolutely nothing to do with Jaden McDaniels whatsoever. That’s “triggered.” Or check all the other MIN threads. Obviously, I can’t be rebutting your Gobert “facts” if you don’t post them, everywhere, first.

It’s weird that you say I am triggered by Gobert, I have resisted using the word for you, but I think it’s amply true. Look how many Gobert posts you’ve made. Look at how long they are. Look how you post them in every thread, regardless of whether they are off topic. If people say the G-word, it triggers the same 8-12 paragraphs from you, every one straying farther and farther from the truth.

I’m not saying don’t hate on Rudy. I’m saying do it with honest, non-spun, facts, and do it in the appropriate threads where that is the discussion.

[Calinks]

Fellas let's put a kibosh (a stop) to the Gobert talk in this thread right now. Some of the same arguments are bleeding over into every thread, we don't need that. A point was made, lets get back to discussing Jaden. Move away from Rudy, if you want to talk Rudy trade or Rudy, in general, there are threads for that, let's focus on Jaden in this one.

[TimberKat]

A comparison does not have to be an exact 1:1 equivalence.
Centers aren't as devalued as running backs yet, but the analogy is valid.

Do you feel what McDaniels does on the perimeter is as valuable as what Gobert does in the paint?
Because the question has significant repercussions to the future of the franchise with so many highly paid players.

JMcD is not as valuable as Gobert. JMcD didn't make the all nba defense team (10 players) or NBA all star team. Gobert had won DPOY 3 times and 6 times NBA all defense team. Cam Johnson right now definitely have higher value than JMcD. If you ask all 30 team's GM and coaches, they could have either JMcD or Cam. How many do you think will take JMcD? I hope JMcD will earn NBA all defense, all star, better than Cam and better than Gobert someday but he isn't right now, therefore, JMcD's contract should be less than Cam's.

If you are so worry about the cap and bad contracts, than why are you taking the risk to overpaid him now? According to you, "Simply assuming revenues are going to keep skyrocketing is bad business, even were there not so many scary things going on in the world." You should paid him for whatever he is worth and ensure you have the cap space first.

You can live in the past or look to the future. Jaden is 22 and ascending and Gobert is 31 and declining.
I'm much more concerned about whether or not we have Jaden MCDaniels locked up for his prime than short term tax implications.
TC made that bed, and he's likely going to have to get rid of KAT or Rudy if we don't win big this year.
Lowballing Jaden doesn't fix that.

Jaden would have made all defense last year if JJJ hadn't been unjustly classified as a forward, and Rudy got zero all defense votes.

I think vast majority of GMs would take Jaden over Cam.
Similiar offensive efficiency, Jaden much better defender, taller, and more athletic.

Jaden shot 51.7/39.8 from 3 last year.
There is a lot of untapped offensive potential there.

5/125, starting at 22 mil and ascending. low end.
5/150 starting at 27 and mil and ascending top end.
Matching a big 4 year offer sheet with a player option in restricted free agency, worst case.

I live for the present and all that is reality. Is Jaden making the all defense team a fact or wish because I don't see how he could jump ahead of Giannis. Unless you also classify Giannis as center.

Jaden would had make the third team if there is such a thing. So, I standby by my reasoning for not paying him 30M and don't see 20M as low ball.

I would think most GM (also myself, not a GM), would prefer Cam. We can't prove it, so it's just offering different ways to look at the question on hand. There is a lot of untapped defensive potential here with Cam .

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[younggunsmn]

I stand by everything I've posted in this thread including the tone of my responses.
I'm not interested in a slap fight about whose facts are correct.

I post plenty of value here, CBA info, contracts, salary cap, future draft picks held, and I do my best to get things right but I'm only human.
I do my absolute best to respond to the argument in the post and not attack the poster.
You used to be one of those people too. What happened?

You don't like my arguments or opinions, you can rebut them or ignore them and move on.
What you've been doing here has been far from that.
And it's it's been going on since July 8th, 2023 .
And I hate to do it, but the only recourse you've left me is to add you to my foe list.
I encourage you to add me to yours.
Because it's bringing down the whole board.
So don't bother responding, I won't see it.

[younggunsmn]

I live for the present and all that is reality. Is Jaden making the all defense team a fact or wish because I don't see how he could jump ahead of Giannis. Unless you also classify Giannis as center.

Jaden would had make the third team if there is such a thing. So, I standby by my reasoning for not paying him 30M and don't see 20M as low ball.

I would think most GM (also myself, not a GM), would prefer Cam. We can't prove it, so it's just offering different ways to look at the question on hand. There is a lot of untapped defensive potential here with Cam .

Forgot about Giannis who had 60 points. Jaden did have 40 points though which was 2nd most of any player who didn't make 1st or 2nd team. 12th best defender in the league is not too shabby.

I think Cam's a good comparison contract wise, similar age, experience, stats, role, position.
That's a part of how agents and teams negotiate so I figured I'd throw him out as a comp for what a Jaden extension might look like.

Another off the top of my head:
DeAndre Hunter 4/95
https://www.nba.com/news/deandre-hunter-signs-contract-extension-with-hawks

That was signed last October.
a 10% bump on that is 4/104.5 (26 mil avg)
I wouldn't be upset at all at that, but since we can give 5 years now without maxing him (they couldn't do that for Hunter last fall),
5/130 would be even better.

I'11 be pleasantly surprised if you are right and he signs for closer to 20 mil/year instead of 30.

[younggunsmn]

Read on Twitter

Thanks for this, interesting.
Vecenie thinks Jaden should wait for a bigger payday but thinks players like him have been weirdly underpaid recently.

BTW, I get a kick out of Esohny basically predicting chatGTP whenever I read your signature.

[TimberKat]

I live for the present and all that is reality. Is Jaden making the all defense team a fact or wish because I don't see how he could jump ahead of Giannis. Unless you also classify Giannis as center.

Jaden would had make the third team if there is such a thing. So, I standby by my reasoning for not paying him 30M and don't see 20M as low ball.

I would think most GM (also myself, not a GM), would prefer Cam. We can't prove it, so it's just offering different ways to look at the question on hand. There is a lot of untapped defensive potential here with Cam .

Forgot about Giannis who had 60 points. Jaden did have 40 points though which was 2nd most of any player who didn't make 1st or 2nd team. 12th best defender in the league is not too shabby.

I think Cam's a good comparison contract wise, similar age, experience, stats, role, position.
That's a part of how agents and teams negotiate so I figured I'd throw him out as a comp for what a Jaden extension might look like.

Another off the top of my head:
DeAndre Hunter 4/95
https://www.nba.com/news/deandre-hunter-signs-contract-extension-with-hawks

That was signed last October.
a 10% bump on that is 4/104.5 (26 mil avg)
I wouldn't be upset at all at that, but since we can give 5 years now without maxing him (they couldn't do that for Hunter last fall),
5/130 would be even better.

I'11 be pleasantly surprised if you are right and he signs for closer to 20 mil/year instead of 30.

Something that supports your point, Ringer had JMcD at 75 and Cam at 94. It will be interesting to see how NBA2K rank them. Anyway, Cam is a good reference point.

[shrink]

Read on Twitter

Remember when Connelly said “ "The minute we can talk we'll be very aggressive... The minute we're allowed to, those guys are going to have really, really nice offers with a lot of money in their inbox."

Apparently Jaden’s wasn’t really really nice enough.

[Klomp]

Remember when Connelly said “ "The minute we can talk we'll be very aggressive... The minute we're allowed to, those guys are going to have really, really nice offers with a lot of money in their inbox."

Apparently Jaden’s wasn’t really really nice enough.

I don't blame Jaden for standing firm. There's really no reason for him to accept a low-ball offer.

[shrink]

Remember when Connelly said “ "The minute we can talk we'll be very aggressive... The minute we're allowed to, those guys are going to have really, really nice offers with a lot of money in their inbox."

Apparently Jaden’s wasn’t really really nice enough.

I don't blame Jaden for standing firm. There's really no reason for him to accept a low-ball offer.

What I’m saying is that Connelly didn’t think he was giving him a low ball offer.

And there is always a reason to consider an extension, because it provides insurance from a career-ending injury or lack of production. As I recall, Connelly offered Jaylen Nowell an extension last season which he declined, preferring to bet on himself. He lost that bet.

[Colbinii]

Read on Twitter

Remember when Connelly said “ "The minute we can talk we'll be very aggressive... The minute we're allowed to, those guys are going to have really, really nice offers with a lot of money in their inbox."

Apparently Jaden’s wasn’t really really nice enough.

This isn't true. It isn't hard for someone of Jaden's caliber to look at Desmond Bane and say "I want that".

[shrink]

Remember when Connelly said “ "The minute we can talk we'll be very aggressive... The minute we're allowed to, those guys are going to have really, really nice offers with a lot of money in their inbox."

Apparently Jaden’s wasn’t really really nice enough.

This isn't true. It isn't hard for someone of Jaden's caliber to look at Desmond Bane and say "I want that".

Connelly thought their offer “was really really nice.” Jaden apparently didn’t.

[Colbinii]

Remember when Connelly said “ "The minute we can talk we'll be very aggressive... The minute we're allowed to, those guys are going to have really, really nice offers with a lot of money in their inbox."

Apparently Jaden’s wasn’t really really nice enough.

This isn't true. It isn't hard for someone of Jaden's caliber to look at Desmond Bane and say "I want that".

Connelly thought it was really really nice. Jaden apparently didn’t.

I know. My guess is Connelly offered in the ballpark of 5/120 and Jaden's camp wants 4/120. There is likely a way to bridge the gap with heavy incentives like the Bane deal [Likely incentives include All-Defense, unlikely incentives include All-NBA and NBA Title].

[Colbinii]

Actually, I just thought of the incentive based deal and I love it. Wouldn't it be cool if a team could have incentives tie into an optional 5th year? If you meet the incentives [say All-NBA or win an NBA Championship] then you earn an ETO for the Player [A Player Option] for McDaniels to get paid more in year 5. If he doesn't meet the incentives, then he would play his 5th year out on his current deal [which benefits Minnesota].

[shrink]

This isn't true. It isn't hard for someone of Jaden's caliber to look at Desmond Bane and say "I want that".

Connelly thought it was really really nice. Jaden apparently didn’t.

I know. My guess is Connelly offered in the ballpark of 5/120 and Jaden's camp wants 4/120. There is likely a way to bridge the gap with heavy incentives like the Bane deal [Likely incentives include All-Defense, unlikely incentives include All-NBA and NBA Title].

It’s funny you mentioned that. Just this morning I was looking at Jaylen Brown’s previous deal, and he had an unlikely incentive of $8 mil for making All-NBA. This feels like a good compromise between giving a borderline max player a max deal, and having them earn one.

As you are undoubtedly aware, we’ll probably see them try to bridge the gap by offering Jaden something closer to the Connelly number, but for Jaden make it a shorter extension, with a player option on the end. This would let him get back on the market sooner if he really improves, but still give him some years of guaranteed big salaries if he would get hurt. It’s easy to forget that Jaden will only make $10 mil over the first four years in the NBA, so not signing a deal that would automatically guarantee you $120 mil could be a very dangerous move.

I may be more risk-averse than Jaden, but if I was his agent, I would suggest signing a 4/$102 deal, but only with the last year as a player option, and I’d like some incentive like Brown had in his previous deal. This gives the Wolves some security and continuity at a lower price, but they assume the risk of Jaden under-performing the deal, or over-performing and getting a bonus,

[TimberKat]

His contract is probably the most complicated one in this off season. Remember Shabazz? Great for Wolves front office that he didn't sign but not so great for himself. On the other hand, Darko was smart. If I am Wolves front office, 25m+ I like a five year full control and team option in there somewhere. Otherwise, 20M for 4 years with player option. That is in line with Dillian Brook's contact and he was selected to all NBA defensive team.

[Klomp]

Remember when Connelly said “ "The minute we can talk we'll be very aggressive... The minute we're allowed to, those guys are going to have really, really nice offers with a lot of money in their inbox."

Apparently Jaden’s wasn’t really really nice enough.

This isn't true. It isn't hard for someone of Jaden's caliber to look at Desmond Bane and say "I want that".

Connelly thought their offer “was really really nice.” Jaden apparently didn’t.

Minnesota and Reid were thousands apart not long before a deal eventually got done. We're still fairly early on, there's no deadline pressuring either side to need to waver at this point.

[TimberKat]

This isn't true. It isn't hard for someone of Jaden's caliber to look at Desmond Bane and say "I want that".

Connelly thought their offer “was really really nice.” Jaden apparently didn’t.

Minnesota and Reid were thousands apart not long before a deal eventually got done. We're still fairly early on, there's no deadline pressuring either side to need to waver at this point.

Thousands maybe true for my next job. In the NBA it's millions apart If we think Towns' contract was bad, I can't believe how much Bane got. That is Tobias Harris 2.0.

[Klomp]

Connelly thought their offer “was really really nice.” Jaden apparently didn’t.

Minnesota and Reid were thousands apart not long before a deal eventually got done. We're still fairly early on, there's no deadline pressuring either side to need to waver at this point.

Thousands maybe true for my next job. In the NBA it's millions apart If we think Towns' contract was bad, I can't believe how much Bane got. That is Tobias Harris 2.0.

dangit