Atlanta Hawks Trade Proposal Thread -- Part IV

[jayu70]

I believe the Hawks and Raptors will make a deal after August 5 that will include Griffin/Hunter/Bufkin and 2 picks. He is an all NBA wing player that makes the Hawks a contender in the weak East. As for not signing extension, Siakam is just trying to block teams from trading for him because he wants to stay in Toronto and shoot for a Supermax. . The whole offseason has been about trading Siakm. Don't compare toxic lrving with Siakam

Holy overpay Batman. Siakam is expiring and seeking a max contract. Wether true or not, he's already put it out there he's not interested in an extension so that has to be considered in his valuation. Even if he agrees now, he can't sign an extension immediately after the trade, he has to wait 6 months. So there is still a chance no matter how small that he can walk in FAcy and again has to be factored in the valuation. Very doubtful Griffin is included.

Yeah.. I'm still maxed at Hunter+CC+Sac FRP and let Dallas and Toronto figure out the rest. It doesn't seem like this is likely to happen, so I've moved on. I'm still hoping something big happens and we also use the MLE to add, but I just don't see a lot of game-changing options out there still to sign.

I'm with you.
Hawks are $10.9 mil under the Luxury Tax and I don't think they'll go over.
We also have the JC $25 mil TPE.

[Jamaaliver]

name a better wing defender in the NBA. you can't.

I'd take Delon Wright, Herbert Jones and Matisse Thybulle on massively lower contracts for their wing defense. (Tari Eason in year 2 is approaching the same level of defense also.)

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[wegotthabeet]

name a better wing defender in the NBA. you can't.

I'd take Delon Wright, Herbert Jones and Matisse Thybulle on massively lower contracts for their wing defense. (Tari Eason in year 2 is approaching the same level of defense also.)

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

those guys are unplayable offensively. it's 4 on 5 every time on the other side of the ball especially with Thybulle.

[Geaux_Hawks]

name a better wing defender in the NBA. you can't.

I'd take Delon Wright, Herbert Jones and Matisse Thybulle on massively lower contracts for their wing defense. (Tari Eason in year 2 is approaching the same level of defense also.)

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

those guys are unplayable offensively. it's 4 on 5 every time on the other side of the ball especially with Thybulle.

I think the point is, OG isn't some offensive juggernaught either, and would cost 2-3x more in value to obtain and retain. FWIW, Herb Jones and Delon Wright aren't inept offensively like Thybulle. Even if the claim is true for Thybulle, he's way cheaper, and ideally, you'd sacrifice offense just for his defense anyway if the alternative is to trade and pay OG.

[wegotthabeet]

I'd take Delon Wright, Herbert Jones and Matisse Thybulle on massively lower contracts for their wing defense. (Tari Eason in year 2 is approaching the same level of defense also.)

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

those guys are unplayable offensively. it's 4 on 5 every time on the other side of the ball especially with Thybulle.

I think the point is, OG isn't some offensive juggernaught either, and would cost 2-3x more in value to obtain and retain. FWIW, Herb Jones and Delon Wright aren't inept offensively like Thybulle. Even if the claim is true for Thybulle, he's way cheaper, and ideally, you'd sacrifice offense just for his defense anyway if the alternative is to trade and pay OG.

all good points, but the Raptors aren't looking to move OG it seems. the FO is super high on him. i think they see him as 3rd option on offence, not just a rotation piece like these other guys, none of which are even starters.

now i think you can make an argument that Jones for example at a 1/3 of the cost is better money spent. i don't think you can say the same about Thybulle. i do like Herb a lot.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I think the point is, OG isn't some offensive juggernaught either, and would cost 2-3x more in value to obtain and retain. FWIW, Herb Jones and Delon Wright aren't inept offensively like Thybulle. Even if the claim is true for Thybulle, he's way cheaper, and ideally, you'd sacrifice offense just for his defense anyway if the alternative is to trade and pay OG.

all good points, but the Raptors aren't looking to move OG it seems. the FO is super high on him. i think they see him as 3rd option on offence, not just a rotation piece like these other guys, none of which are even starters.

now i think you can make an argument that Jones for example at a 1/3 of the cost is better money spent. i don't think you can say the same about Thybulle. i do like Herb a lot.

I mean that's fine if Toronto isn't looking to move him. The point is, Hawks are better off looking for cheaper alternatives over OG, whose only real value to us, would be as a 3 and D wing. Toronto obviously values him at a much higher standard considering they've asked for a minimum of 3 FRPs to even consider trading OG.

[Jamaaliver]

name a better wing defender in the NBA. you can't.

I'd take Delon Wright, Herbert Jones and Matisse Thybulle on massively lower contracts for their wing defense. (Tari Eason in year 2 is approaching the same level of defense also.)

those guys are unplayable offensively. it's 4 on 5 every time on the other side of the ball especially with Thybulle.

That wasn't the assignment, young man.

[wegotthabeet]

I'd take Delon Wright, Herbert Jones and Matisse Thybulle on massively lower contracts for their wing defense. (Tari Eason in year 2 is approaching the same level of defense also.)

those guys are unplayable offensively. it's 4 on 5 every time on the other side of the ball especially with Thybulle.

That wasn't the assignment, young man.

are those guys really better? no not really, at least not clearly better around the same level. you're reaching.

[dms269]

those guys are unplayable offensively. it's 4 on 5 every time on the other side of the ball especially with Thybulle.

That wasn't the assignment, young man.

are those guys really better? no not really, at least not clearly better around the same level. you're reaching.

At this point it really comes off as trolling. You ask for players better wing defensively than Siakam, someone provides them to you with evidence, and then you change it to being better offensively as well. That wasn't the argument.

Siakam is good, no one is doubting that. However he is not returning multiple starters, young players, and picks as some have suggested...not with his current contract situation. If you hate the Kyrie comparison, then please provide comps where in the last several years a former all-nba player who was expiring seeking a max to supermax deal was traded and what they were traded for. That way we can accurately gauge a possible deal. I have a feeling it is not two starters, two young players, and picks as some have suggested nor is it Trae for Siakam and pieces as others have.

So what are the comp deals?

[wegotthabeet]

That wasn't the assignment, young man.

are those guys really better? no not really, at least not clearly better around the same level. you're reaching.

At this point it really comes off as trolling. You ask for players better wing defensively than Siakam, someone provides them to you with evidence, and then you change it to being better offensively as well. That wasn't the argument.

Siakam is good, no one is doubting that. However he is not returning multiple starters, young players, and picks as some have suggested...not with his current contract situation. If you hate the Kyrie comparison, then please provide comps where in the last several years a former all-nba player who was expiring seeking a max to supermax deal was traded and what they were traded for. That way we can accurately gauge a possible deal. I have a feeling it is not two starters, two young players, and picks as some have suggested nor is it Trae for Siakam and pieces as others have.

So what are the comp deals?

i was asking who is a better wing defender than OG, not Siakam.

[Geaux_Hawks]

are those guys really better? no not really, at least not clearly better around the same level. you're reaching.

At this point it really comes off as trolling. You ask for players better wing defensively than Siakam, someone provides them to you with evidence, and then you change it to being better offensively as well. That wasn't the argument.

Siakam is good, no one is doubting that. However he is not returning multiple starters, young players, and picks as some have suggested...not with his current contract situation. If you hate the Kyrie comparison, then please provide comps where in the last several years a former all-nba player who was expiring seeking a max to supermax deal was traded and what they were traded for. That way we can accurately gauge a possible deal. I have a feeling it is not two starters, two young players, and picks as some have suggested nor is it Trae for Siakam and pieces as others have.

So what are the comp deals?

i was asking who is a better wing defender than OG, not Siakam.

You were still provided with a few.

[Jamaaliver]

I think we have a winner...

Code: Select all

The Hawks would get a game-changer in Siakam, who would instantly be the best teammate that Young has had in his career. Fresh off a two-season stretch that included an All-Star and All-NBA nod in two separate campaigns, Siakam is at the peak of his offensive powers right now.

Dallas would land Capela, who had been blocking Onyeka Okongwu from playing time. He is still a double-double machine the Mavericks would like.

Hunter seems like the perfect player for Toronto to acquire in a Siakam deal due to his style of play, and he could be a part of the new-look Raptors that eventually turns into a contending team.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

[D21]

...
So what are the comp deals?

i was asking who is a better wing defender than OG, not Siakam.

But the question is still valid, what are the comp deals?

I hope that we all realize that:
- if Collins got the usage of Siakam, he would have been a 20pts/10rbd guy, but Siakam has one thing over Collins: passing
- Siakam doesn't look like a better floor spacing option than Collins. The ones who didn't follow ATL closely enough will look at 29% 3pts shooting without knowing that Collins was injured before the 2022 playoffs, which hurted his shooting for the end this 2021-22 season and most of the 2022-23 season, before feeling better and ending this last one at almost 38%, back to his level
- if Capela is traded, and Okongwu start to be able to take longer shots, it will make it easier for Siakam, like it would have been for Collins. Which means that half of the positive things coming with a Siakam trade won't come from Siakam himself but from not having a C locking the paint and rim zone and getting more space to let the PF attack the rim

So basically, if we have traded Capela and give Collins the same usage that Siakam would get, the only main thing that Siakam would bring is inside-outside passing, which is great, for sure, but was not needed more than having a spacing C
But the price would be having a 38M PF that we are not sure to keep, or keeping him at a higher salary later, instead of having kept Collins for 25M, and losing lots of assets that could be used for other trades.
And I forget one thing: Jalen can be our future passing PF

We lost Gallo and Huerter one year ago and the team was lacking shooting/spacing because Murray was not a catch-&-shoot guy or movement shooter, and once again, we would trade for a less shooting/spacing guy?

I will use once again the same an example: for almost the same salaries, instead of Siakam, we should try to get Hield+Turner especially if Capela and Hunter are the center pieces.
Hield is even better at SF than SG and playing Trae/Bogi/Hield with Turner spacing (he's not only good at that, but also one of the best in the league at finishing at the rim) is exactly what this team needs if they built around Trae.
Our PF would be free to move to a point that we would not need him to be an All-Star level player, and the offense would be a nightmare for the opponents

An offseason made of losing Collins/Capela/Hunter/young guys/picks just to get Siakam and avoid some tax has a great chance to look later like one of the worst offseason for this team

I could be totally wrong, and they do this trade, and I hope that I will, because one year ago, I called that if they trade for Murray and play Trae+Murray like two All-Stars, they both would get good looking numbers, but it would make this team average, and it's what happened.
I just hope that if they trade for Siakam, my call will be totally wrong

I will just troll a bit with that: 2019-20 season, according to bballreference
Siakam was selected for the All-Star game with a PER of 17.9 when Collins had a PER of 23.5 this season...
Overall career of 114 Off rating and 109 Def rating for Siakam... 121 and 113 for Collins while Siakam spent more seasons with a shooting 3s center than Collins got the chance to

[wegotthabeet]

At this point it really comes off as trolling. You ask for players better wing defensively than Siakam, someone provides them to you with evidence, and then you change it to being better offensively as well. That wasn't the argument.

Siakam is good, no one is doubting that. However he is not returning multiple starters, young players, and picks as some have suggested...not with his current contract situation. If you hate the Kyrie comparison, then please provide comps where in the last several years a former all-nba player who was expiring seeking a max to supermax deal was traded and what they were traded for. That way we can accurately gauge a possible deal. I have a feeling it is not two starters, two young players, and picks as some have suggested nor is it Trae for Siakam and pieces as others have.

So what are the comp deals?

i was asking who is a better wing defender than OG, not Siakam.

You were still provided with a few.

yeah but none of them are actually better wing defenders.

[jayu70]

I think we have a winner...

Code: Select all

The Hawks would get a game-changer in Siakam, who would instantly be the best teammate that Young has had in his career. Fresh off a two-season stretch that included an All-Star and All-NBA nod in two separate campaigns, Siakam is at the peak of his offensive powers right now.

Dallas would land Capela, who had been blocking Onyeka Okongwu from playing time. He is still a double-double machine the Mavericks would like.

Hunter seems like the perfect player for Toronto to acquire in a Siakam deal due to his style of play, and he could be a part of the new-look Raptors that eventually turns into a contending team.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

From this...
https://soaringdownsouth.com/2023/07/18/atlanta-hawks-grade-trade-pascal-siakam-3-team/

[Jamaaliver]

i was asking who is a better wing defender than OG, not Siakam.

You were still provided with a few.

yeah but none of them are actually better wing defenders.

I was unaware that OG Anunoby is considered the single greatest wing defender on the planet...

I'll keep that in mind moving forward.

[wegotthabeet]

You were still provided with a few.

yeah but none of them are actually better wing defenders.

I was unaware that OG Anunoby is considered the single greatest wing defender on the planet...

I'll keep that in mind moving forward.

Seems like a pretty reasonable take honestly for anyone who watches him play. No need for the eye roll.

[Jamaaliver]

I was unaware that OG Anunoby is considered the single greatest wing defender on the planet...

I'll keep that in mind moving forward.

Seems like a pretty reasonable take honestly for anyone who watches him play. No need for the eye roll.

I have long heard that Raptors fans greatly overvalue & over-evaluate their players -- to an obscene degree.



The absurdity of this conversation seems to confirm it.

[wegotthabeet]

I was unaware that OG Anunoby is considered the single greatest wing defender on the planet...

I'll keep that in mind moving forward.

Seems like a pretty reasonable take honestly for anyone who watches him play. No need for the eye roll.

I have long heard that Raptors fans greatly overvalue & over-evaluate their players -- to an obscene degree.



The absurdity of this conversation seems to confirm it.

bud, every fan of every team does that including you with Atlanta.

OG was ALL-Defense last year. those other guys weren't. if you think he's being overvalued that's fine. you're entitled to think what you want.

i think Trae is overrated. i think your young players are overrated. be here we are.

[dms269]

Seems like a pretty reasonable take honestly for anyone who watches him play. No need for the eye roll.

I have long heard that Raptors fans greatly overvalue & over-evaluate their players -- to an obscene degree.



The absurdity of this conversation seems to confirm it.

bud, every fan of every team does that including you with Atlanta.

OG was ALL-Defense last year. those other guys weren't. if you think he's being overvalued that's fine. you're entitled to think what you want.

i think Trae is overrated. i think your young players are overrated. be here we are.

Couple things,
All-Nba anything is purely a popularity test. Citing all-defense or all-nba as reasons why anyone is good or better is inherently flawed.

You are more than welcome to stop visiting the Hawks board. You aren't adding anything productive, haven't posted trades/transactions on this section, snd have resulted to just "nuh uh" when people counter your claims.

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