Haynes: Damian Lillard Requests Trade

[docholliday99]

KD and Dame are two completely different scenarios. Dame has only ever played for Portland. He’s given them unlimited chances to improve the team and it’s never worked out.

Dame saying he would be okay to play in Portland is all posturing, and I haven’t seen that written anywhere recently. Dame wants out.

As ForeverTFC also pointed out, Dame’s contract appears to be a problem for the teams interested in acquiring him. It makes sense for Portland to get the most they can as soon as they can.

To me, this feels a lot like the Kawhi situation where the relationship is irreparable. Check JRoy’s earlier posts where he “just wants it to be over”. Plus, Portland is well positioned to rebuild with Scoot. They just have to decide to go in that direction.

Oh 100%, in an ideal world this would be done sooner than later. The fact that this has no acrimonious feelings allows Portland the time to wait - which is what I was referring to about Brooklyn and KD, Brooklyn had term and set a sky high price - they could afford to wait. And I get where JRoy's coming from but he's also stated he's more than fine to sit Dame's butt down and to wait it out if that becomes necessary. The pressure really is on everyone else.

With all due respect to JRoy, his comfort level with sitting Dame has exactly 0 relevance to this conversation.

The KD deal is not a comp for Dame. KD has 1 less year, is 15% cheaper, is a better player and was traded prior to the new CBA. Additionally, if it wasn't for new ownership, it's unlikely the Suns would have paid that price.

Dame's contract extension was awful when it was signed. It's even worse under the current CBA. There's 2 years of value on that deal with 2 years of even money at best and negative value in most likely scenario. No sensible person looks at that and summizes that his value will stay even 1 year from now. Even if he maintains his production, I'd point you the CBA restrictions that he would introduce and why he would more than likely net out as a negative on a team's cap sheet.

Portland needs to find a trade by the deadline. The pressure is on them.

Well, to all respect to JRoy, that comment was for Merit bringing him into the discussion saying he would prefer to move Dame as soon as possible - so it had relevance to that conversation.

As for KD, the point is, he was on term and asked out, Brooklyn said sure and set an incredibly high price, cause they could and it forced KD to retract his trade demand. Brooklyn could wait as he's on term, couldn't care if it was 2years, 3 years or 4 years, the point is the term gave Brooklyn leverage to find a trade they wanted. As for Dame, Portland's in the driver seat cause Dame is locked in for 4 years and term gives them leverage. Dame can't sit out or he won't get paid. Dame can't attack the franchise or he'll destroy the rep he's built. Dame has been put on notice that he'll be sanctioned by the league. Dame has no choice but to play for Portland if Portland chooses that - and they are very open to that. Portland has 4 years and they'll keep making money with Dame until Portland finds a trade they want to take. Portland does not have to trade Dame at all, they are under no deadline and they certainly don't have to trade him to the Heat, why is that such a hard thing to accept. They could easily wait till next offseason and who knows, maybe he'll enjoy playing with Scoot.

As for the new CBA, I understand some of the nuances but not nearly as much as someone like DanH or real capologists. Teams are pretty cap savvy and in 2026/27, the last year of Dames contract, the cap will be at least 171.8m with a 2nd apron line of 229.9m. If he's playing close to his career averages, I don't see the negative value.

[Merit]

Nope.

Those expiring contracts are a flight risk and do not have the value you suppose.

What exactly do you think is going to be a reasonable offer for Dame, from any team who can and makes sense for them to make an offer?

Maybe I missed it, but all is see is you spamming "nope" to any proposal. I think everyone here gets it that you will say no to everything. So what is a "yes".

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Brooklyn needs to offer 3 firsts just to get out from under Ben Simmons, IMO.

I’m sorry to hear that's all it would take. Ben Simmons could be nice, if it all pans out. I’m as hopeful as anyone and yet I’m not sold on Ben unless he’s in the Dunker spot on offense and the starting point guard. Maybe that happens for him in Portland.

As it stands right now, OG and Siakam both have better value, even if both are expiring.

[Merit]

Oh 100%, in an ideal world this would be done sooner than later. The fact that this has no acrimonious feelings allows Portland the time to wait - which is what I was referring to about Brooklyn and KD, Brooklyn had term and set a sky high price - they could afford to wait. And I get where JRoy's coming from but he's also stated he's more than fine to sit Dame's butt down and to wait it out if that becomes necessary. The pressure really is on everyone else.

With all due respect to JRoy, his comfort level with sitting Dame has exactly 0 relevance to this conversation.

The KD deal is not a comp for Dame. KD has 1 less year, is 15% cheaper, is a better player and was traded prior to the new CBA. Additionally, if it wasn't for new ownership, it's unlikely the Suns would have paid that price.

Dame's contract extension was awful when it was signed. It's even worse under the current CBA. There's 2 years of value on that deal with 2 years of even money at best and negative value in most likely scenario. No sensible person looks at that and summizes that his value will stay even 1 year from now. Even if he maintains his production, I'd point you the CBA restrictions that he would introduce and why he would more than likely net out as a negative on a team's cap sheet.

Portland needs to find a trade by the deadline. The pressure is on them.

Well, to all respect to JRoy, that comment was for Merit bringing him into the discussion saying he would prefer to move Dame as soon as possible - so it had relevance to that conversation.

As for KD, the point is, he was on term and asked out, Brooklyn said sure and set an incredibly high price, cause they could and it forced KD to retract his trade demand. Brooklyn could wait as he's on term, couldn't care if it was 2years, 3 years or 4 years, the point is the term gave Brooklyn leverage to find a trade they wanted. As for Dame, Portland's in the driver seat cause Dame is locked in for 4 years and term gives them leverage. Dame can't sit out or he won't get paid. Dame can't attack the franchise or he'll destroy the rep he's built. Dame has been put on notice that he'll be sanctioned by the league. Dame has no choice but to play for Portland if Portland chooses that - and they are very open to that. Portland has 4 years and they'll keep making money with Dame until Portland finds a trade they want to take. Portland does not have to trade Dame at all, they are under no deadline and they certainly don't have to trade him to the Heat, why is that such a hard thing to accept. They could easily wait till next offseason and who knows, maybe he'll enjoy playing with Scoot.

As for the new CBA, I understand some of the nuances but not nearly as much as someone like DanH or real capologists. Teams are pretty cap savvy and in 2026/27, the last year of Dames contract, the cap will be at least 171.8m with a 2nd apron line of 229.9m. If he's playing close to his career averages, I don't see the negative value.

We’re gonna agree to disagree here.

[docholliday99]

KD and Dame are two completely different scenarios. Dame has only ever played for Portland. He’s given them unlimited chances to improve the team and it’s never worked out.

Dame saying he would be okay to play in Portland is all posturing, and I haven’t seen that written anywhere recently. Dame wants out.

As ForeverTFC also pointed out, Dame’s contract appears to be a problem for the teams interested in acquiring him. It makes sense for Portland to get the most they can as soon as they can.

To me, this feels a lot like the Kawhi situation where the relationship is irreparable. Check JRoy’s earlier posts where he “just wants it to be over”. Plus, Portland is well positioned to rebuild with Scoot. They just have to decide to go in that direction.

Oh 100%, in an ideal world this would be done sooner than later. The fact that this has no acrimonious feelings allows Portland the time to wait - which is what I was referring to about Brooklyn and KD, Brooklyn had term and set a sky high price - they could afford to wait. And I get where JRoy's coming from but he's also stated he's more than fine to sit Dame's butt down and to wait it out if that becomes necessary. The pressure really is on everyone else.

The pressure isn’t on everyone else or it would already be done.

The pressure isn’t on everyone else or there would be solid offers for Dame.

The pressure isn’t on everyone else, I just don’t believe the posturing.

The point is there is no pressure on Portland to do anything, they have no deadline and it's up to everyone else to come forth - as it should be. If a team is going to put a decent offer, the pressure is on them to measure up. Portland is content to have Dame on the roster - they've said that. Dame's also ok to play there, so....Portland is in a good spot.

[docholliday99]

With all due respect to JRoy, his comfort level with sitting Dame has exactly 0 relevance to this conversation.

The KD deal is not a comp for Dame. KD has 1 less year, is 15% cheaper, is a better player and was traded prior to the new CBA. Additionally, if it wasn't for new ownership, it's unlikely the Suns would have paid that price.

Dame's contract extension was awful when it was signed. It's even worse under the current CBA. There's 2 years of value on that deal with 2 years of even money at best and negative value in most likely scenario. No sensible person looks at that and summizes that his value will stay even 1 year from now. Even if he maintains his production, I'd point you the CBA restrictions that he would introduce and why he would more than likely net out as a negative on a team's cap sheet.

Portland needs to find a trade by the deadline. The pressure is on them.

Well, to all respect to JRoy, that comment was for Merit bringing him into the discussion saying he would prefer to move Dame as soon as possible - so it had relevance to that conversation.

As for KD, the point is, he was on term and asked out, Brooklyn said sure and set an incredibly high price, cause they could and it forced KD to retract his trade demand. Brooklyn could wait as he's on term, couldn't care if it was 2years, 3 years or 4 years, the point is the term gave Brooklyn leverage to find a trade they wanted. As for Dame, Portland's in the driver seat cause Dame is locked in for 4 years and term gives them leverage. Dame can't sit out or he won't get paid. Dame can't attack the franchise or he'll destroy the rep he's built. Dame has been put on notice that he'll be sanctioned by the league. Dame has no choice but to play for Portland if Portland chooses that - and they are very open to that. Portland has 4 years and they'll keep making money with Dame until Portland finds a trade they want to take. Portland does not have to trade Dame at all, they are under no deadline and they certainly don't have to trade him to the Heat, why is that such a hard thing to accept. They could easily wait till next offseason and who knows, maybe he'll enjoy playing with Scoot.

As for the new CBA, I understand some of the nuances but not nearly as much as someone like DanH or real capologists. Teams are pretty cap savvy and in 2026/27, the last year of Dames contract, the cap will be at least 171.8m with a 2nd apron line of 229.9m. If he's playing close to his career averages, I don't see the negative value.

We’re gonna agree to disagree here.

Of that I have no doubts

[JRoy]

What exactly do you think is going to be a reasonable offer for Dame, from any team who can and makes sense for them to make an offer?

Maybe I missed it, but all is see is you spamming "nope" to any proposal. I think everyone here gets it that you will say no to everything. So what is a "yes".

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Brooklyn needs to offer 3 firsts just to get out from under Ben Simmons, IMO.

I’m sorry to hear that's all it would take. Ben Simmons could be nice, if it all pans out. I’m as hopeful as anyone and yet I’m not sold on Ben unless he’s in the Dunker spot on offense and the starting point guard. Maybe that happens for him in Portland.

As it stands right now, OG and Siakam both have better value, even if both are expiring.

Simmons is high risk/high reward. Out of the spotlight on a rebuilding team might be just what he needs.

[Merit]

What exactly do you think is going to be a reasonable offer for Dame, from any team who can and makes sense for them to make an offer?

Maybe I missed it, but all is see is you spamming "nope" to any proposal. I think everyone here gets it that you will say no to everything. So what is a "yes".

You are doing valiant JRoy, as you may know we are the most hardcore board in basketball, so good on you for sticking it through.

As I've mentioned, the tankers aren't going to budge from the OG level deal as they are not the invested in getting Dame, it's very much a second option to tanking. This tanking movement on the board goes back at least decade, and involves a failed Kyle Lowry trade and a successful Rudy Gay trade. Lines were drawn in the sand back then, and still have impact today. For those who want to tank, a win now move needs to involve a huge overpay by the other team in the deal for it to be considered.

I don’t think TOR should trade for Lillard. TOR has some nice talent but really need a quality lead guard, and that is not a stupid and selfish Schroeder.

OG and Siakam are excellent players wanting big money real soon. Are they worth it?

OG is, and this likely isn’t his last contract. He’s still young. Pascal is, at least to us. Masai has generally shown that he values asset management and with the exception of Fred this has largely come to pass.

I’ll take Schroeder over Simmons right now, especially considering contracts. Most of the board would probably take Schroeder over Fred even if they were paid the same, haha.

[Merit]

Oh 100%, in an ideal world this would be done sooner than later. The fact that this has no acrimonious feelings allows Portland the time to wait - which is what I was referring to about Brooklyn and KD, Brooklyn had term and set a sky high price - they could afford to wait. And I get where JRoy's coming from but he's also stated he's more than fine to sit Dame's butt down and to wait it out if that becomes necessary. The pressure really is on everyone else.

The pressure isn’t on everyone else or it would already be done.

The pressure isn’t on everyone else or there would be solid offers for Dame.

The pressure isn’t on everyone else, I just don’t believe the posturing.

The point is there is no pressure on Portland to do anything, they have no deadline and it's up to everyone else to come forth - as it should be. If a team is going to put a decent offer, the pressure is on them to measure up. Portland is content to have Dame on the roster - they've said that. Dame's also ok to play there, so....Portland is in a good spot.

Dame has never said he’s okay to play there. He has literally asked to be moved. Portland is obviously fine with having him.

[ForeverTFC]

Oh 100%, in an ideal world this would be done sooner than later. The fact that this has no acrimonious feelings allows Portland the time to wait - which is what I was referring to about Brooklyn and KD, Brooklyn had term and set a sky high price - they could afford to wait. And I get where JRoy's coming from but he's also stated he's more than fine to sit Dame's butt down and to wait it out if that becomes necessary. The pressure really is on everyone else.

With all due respect to JRoy, his comfort level with sitting Dame has exactly 0 relevance to this conversation.

The KD deal is not a comp for Dame. KD has 1 less year, is 15% cheaper, is a better player and was traded prior to the new CBA. Additionally, if it wasn't for new ownership, it's unlikely the Suns would have paid that price.

Dame's contract extension was awful when it was signed. It's even worse under the current CBA. There's 2 years of value on that deal with 2 years of even money at best and negative value in most likely scenario. No sensible person looks at that and summizes that his value will stay even 1 year from now. Even if he maintains his production, I'd point you the CBA restrictions that he would introduce and why he would more than likely net out as a negative on a team's cap sheet.

Portland needs to find a trade by the deadline. The pressure is on them.

Well, to all respect to JRoy, that comment was for Merit bringing him into the discussion saying he would prefer to move Dame as soon as possible - so it had relevance to that conversation.

As for KD, the point is, he was on term and asked out, Brooklyn said sure and set an incredibly high price, cause they could and it forced KD to retract his trade demand. Brooklyn could wait as he's on term, couldn't care if it was 2years, 3 years or 4 years, the point is the term gave Brooklyn leverage to find a trade they wanted. As for Dame, Portland's in the driver seat cause Dame is locked in for 4 years and term gives them leverage. Dame can't sit out or he won't get paid. Dame can't attack the franchise or he'll destroy the rep he's built. Dame has been put on notice that he'll be sanctioned by the league. Dame has no choice but to play for Portland if Portland chooses that - and they are very open to that. Portland has 4 years and they'll keep making money with Dame until Portland finds a trade they want to take. Portland does not have to trade Dame at all, they are under no deadline and they certainly don't have to trade him to the Heat, why is that such a hard thing to accept. They could easily wait till next offseason and who knows, maybe he'll enjoy playing with Scoot.

As for the new CBA, I understand some of the nuances but not nearly as much as someone like DanH or real capologists. Teams are pretty cap savvy and in 2026/27, the last year of Dames contract, the cap will be at least 171.8m with a 2nd apron line of 229.9m. If he's playing close to his career averages, I don't see the negative value.

I’m sorry man, but you’re taking a very surface level view here. 2 things you’re missing:

1. Lillard’s extension dollars are not set - it’s simply a max. If the cap goes up, so does his extension when it hits. There’s no value in the outer years as a result of the cap increasing faster than his pay raises
2. When the Nets held on to KD, they were still competing. Portland is clearly in a rebuild and their 3 prospects are guards. Would it be prudent to keep Dame for a year at the expense of one of their development?
3. Dame is on a lower tier thanks KD. Hanging on to him will not make the deals better. The odds say the deals next off season will be worse than what’s available this season

[Merit]

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Brooklyn needs to offer 3 firsts just to get out from under Ben Simmons, IMO.

I’m sorry to hear that's all it would take. Ben Simmons could be nice, if it all pans out. I’m as hopeful as anyone and yet I’m not sold on Ben unless he’s in the Dunker spot on offense and the starting point guard. Maybe that happens for him in Portland.

As it stands right now, OG and Siakam both have better value, even if both are expiring.

Simmons is high risk/high reward. Out of the spotlight on a rebuilding team might be just what he needs.

Or you just got stuck with the albatross contract. Maybe that’s what you want though. Pure tanking. If that’s the case, it makes sense that your fo signed Jerami Grant, haha. A 1/2 punch of Grant and Simmons would be ideal for my fantasy team but horrible IRL. Kinda like Dame is, usually.

[JRoy]

Brooklyn needs to offer 3 firsts just to get out from under Ben Simmons, IMO.

I’m sorry to hear that's all it would take. Ben Simmons could be nice, if it all pans out. I’m as hopeful as anyone and yet I’m not sold on Ben unless he’s in the Dunker spot on offense and the starting point guard. Maybe that happens for him in Portland.

As it stands right now, OG and Siakam both have better value, even if both are expiring.

Simmons is high risk/high reward. Out of the spotlight on a rebuilding team might be just what he needs.

Or you just got stuck with the albatross contract. Maybe that’s what you want though. Pure tanking. If that’s the case, it makes sense that your fo signed Jerami Grant, haha. A 1/2 punch of Grant and Simmons would be ideal for my fantasy team but horrible IRL. Kinda like Dame is, usually.

Lillard is horrible IRL?

Really?

He’s a top 15 player in the league.

Maybe you are setting the bar a little high.

[Merit]

Simmons is high risk/high reward. Out of the spotlight on a rebuilding team might be just what he needs.

Or you just got stuck with the albatross contract. Maybe that’s what you want though. Pure tanking. If that’s the case, it makes sense that your fo signed Jerami Grant, haha. A 1/2 punch of Grant and Simmons would be ideal for my fantasy team but horrible IRL. Kinda like Dame is, usually.

Lillard is horrible IRL?

Really?

He’s a top 15 player in the league.

Maybe you are setting the bar a little high.

No no, Dame is an awesome player IRL. He just hasn’t won. Sorry, I was rushing to type. I’m a big fan of Dame and his loyalty. It should read “like Dame’s team is usually.”

[ArthurVandelay]

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Brooklyn needs to offer 3 firsts just to get out from under Ben Simmons, IMO.

I’m sorry to hear that's all it would take. Ben Simmons could be nice, if it all pans out. I’m as hopeful as anyone and yet I’m not sold on Ben unless he’s in the Dunker spot on offense and the starting point guard. Maybe that happens for him in Portland.

As it stands right now, OG and Siakam both have better value, even if both are expiring.

Simmons is high risk/high reward. Out of the spotlight on a rebuilding team might be just what he needs.

Portland is a team in a great situation to take a risk on Simmons. If it doesn’t work out, you’re still tanking/building through draft and there are only 2 years left on his deal. By the time you know what’s what, he’s an expiring.

However I would not want to be the team that extends him or signs him as a FA lol

[ciueli]

Oh 100%, in an ideal world this would be done sooner than later. The fact that this has no acrimonious feelings allows Portland the time to wait - which is what I was referring to about Brooklyn and KD, Brooklyn had term and set a sky high price - they could afford to wait. And I get where JRoy's coming from but he's also stated he's more than fine to sit Dame's butt down and to wait it out if that becomes necessary. The pressure really is on everyone else.

With all due respect to JRoy, his comfort level with sitting Dame has exactly 0 relevance to this conversation.

The KD deal is not a comp for Dame. KD has 1 less year, is 15% cheaper, is a better player and was traded prior to the new CBA. Additionally, if it wasn't for new ownership, it's unlikely the Suns would have paid that price.

Dame's contract extension was awful when it was signed. It's even worse under the current CBA. There's 2 years of value on that deal with 2 years of even money at best and negative value in most likely scenario. No sensible person looks at that and summizes that his value will stay even 1 year from now. Even if he maintains his production, I'd point you the CBA restrictions that he would introduce and why he would more than likely net out as a negative on a team's cap sheet.

Portland needs to find a trade by the deadline. The pressure is on them.

Well, to all respect to JRoy, that comment was for Merit bringing him into the discussion saying he would prefer to move Dame as soon as possible - so it had relevance to that conversation.

As for KD, the point is, he was on term and asked out, Brooklyn said sure and set an incredibly high price, cause they could and it forced KD to retract his trade demand. Brooklyn could wait as he's on term, couldn't care if it was 2years, 3 years or 4 years, the point is the term gave Brooklyn leverage to find a trade they wanted. As for Dame, Portland's in the driver seat cause Dame is locked in for 4 years and term gives them leverage. Dame can't sit out or he won't get paid. Dame can't attack the franchise or he'll destroy the rep he's built. Dame has been put on notice that he'll be sanctioned by the league. Dame has no choice but to play for Portland if Portland chooses that - and they are very open to that. Portland has 4 years and they'll keep making money with Dame until Portland finds a trade they want to take. Portland does not have to trade Dame at all, they are under no deadline and they certainly don't have to trade him to the Heat, why is that such a hard thing to accept. They could easily wait till next offseason and who knows, maybe he'll enjoy playing with Scoot.

As for the new CBA, I understand some of the nuances but not nearly as much as someone like DanH or real capologists. Teams are pretty cap savvy and in 2026/27, the last year of Dames contract, the cap will be at least 171.8m with a 2nd apron line of 229.9m. If he's playing close to his career averages, I don't see the negative value.

There is pressure on Portland to move Damian Lillard eventually as they will be a tax team in 2024-25 if they keep him and don't shed salary somewhere else. I don't see any ownership willing to pay the tax for a team that didn't even make the play-in tournament in the last two seasons, realistically they probably aren't going to be making the playoffs this year because they'll want to force feed developing young players like Scoot and Sharpe minutes, that doesn't usually translate into winning a lot of games (relying on players who can't even legally drink for wins).

It makes absolutely no sense for them to keep Lillard long term, it would be extremely surprising if he isn't traded by the 2023-24 trade deadline they way KD was last season. If they play him they also risk him suffering a freak season or even career ending injury which would tank what trade value he has now, in the worst case they could be stuck eating his contract or trading him for virtually nothing.

[Tha Cynic]

Nope.

Those expiring contracts are a flight risk and do not have the value you suppose.

What exactly do you think is going to be a reasonable offer for Dame, from any team who can and makes sense for them to make an offer?

Maybe I missed it, but all is see is you spamming "nope" to any proposal. I think everyone here gets it that you will say no to everything. So what is a "yes".

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Why would Brooklyn do this? They're not looking to build Portland East there. Lillard didn't accomplish anything with McCollum. He's not going to accomplish anything with Bridges while being older and with a terrible contract. 3 first round picks to put together a worse team than they had a season ago?

I think what you're missing is that the good teams probably already have big contracts and can't afford Lillard and the bad teams, it doesn't make sense for them to give up draft capital or young players for an aging Lillard. You're then left with middling teams who want to take a jump and have a few assets. There aren't many of those around.

The Lillard contract and age significantly reduce his value because not many will take him on..

[JRoy]

What exactly do you think is going to be a reasonable offer for Dame, from any team who can and makes sense for them to make an offer?

Maybe I missed it, but all is see is you spamming "nope" to any proposal. I think everyone here gets it that you will say no to everything. So what is a "yes".

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Why would Brooklyn do this? They're not looking to build Portland East there. Lillard didn't accomplish anything with McCollum. He's not going to accomplish anything with Bridges while being older and with a terrible contract. 3 first round picks to put together a worse team than they had a season ago?

I think what you're missing is that the good teams probably already have big contracts and can't afford Lillard and the bad teams, it doesn't make sense for them to give up draft capital or young players for an aging Lillard. You're then left with middling teams who want to take a jump and have a few assets. There aren't many of those around.

The Lillard contract and age significantly reduce his value because not many will take him on..

It would have to be a 3 way deal with MIA.

[JB7]

What exactly do you think is going to be a reasonable offer for Dame, from any team who can and makes sense for them to make an offer?

Maybe I missed it, but all is see is you spamming "nope" to any proposal. I think everyone here gets it that you will say no to everything. So what is a "yes".

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Why would Brooklyn do this? They're not looking to build Portland East there. Lillard didn't accomplish anything with McCollum. He's not going to accomplish anything with Bridges while being older and with a terrible contract. 3 first round picks to put together a worse team than they had a season ago?

I think what you're missing is that the good teams probably already have big contracts and can't afford Lillard and the bad teams, it doesn't make sense for them to give up draft capital or young players for an aging Lillard. You're then left with middling teams who want to take a jump and have a few assets. There aren't many of those around.

The Lillard contract and age significantly reduce his value because not many will take him on..

The reason I could see Brooklyn doing this is they have no incentive to lose. Since they don't control their own picks, losing is definitely not something they are interested in. And who knows if the Suns picks turn out to be anything. The earlier picks and swaps are probably worth trading, because they will probably not materialize into anything. Also, the bonus of getting out from under the Simmons problem.

I could see Portland making this deal, hoping that Simmons could do more for them then Herro (since they already have a loaded backcourt), and banking on the Suns picks being better than the Heat picks.

I could see the Nets holding onto the outyear Suns picks though, with the hope they might cash into something. This is Dame they are trading for, and not KD.

[Tha Cynic]

Ben Simmons, 3 FRP and a couple promising young guys works for me.

Why would Brooklyn do this? They're not looking to build Portland East there. Lillard didn't accomplish anything with McCollum. He's not going to accomplish anything with Bridges while being older and with a terrible contract. 3 first round picks to put together a worse team than they had a season ago?

I think what you're missing is that the good teams probably already have big contracts and can't afford Lillard and the bad teams, it doesn't make sense for them to give up draft capital or young players for an aging Lillard. You're then left with middling teams who want to take a jump and have a few assets. There aren't many of those around.

The Lillard contract and age significantly reduce his value because not many will take him on..

The reason I could see Brooklyn doing this is they have no incentive to lose. Since they don't control their own picks, losing is definitely not something they are interested in. And who knows if the Suns picks turn out to be anything. The earlier picks and swaps are probably worth trading, because they will probably not materialize into anything. Also, the bonus of getting out from under the Simmons problem.

I could see Portland making this deal, hoping that Simmons could do more for them then Herro (since they already have a loaded backcourt), and banking on the Suns picks being better than the Heat picks.

I could see the Nets holding onto the outyear Suns picks though, with the hope they might cash into something. This is Dame they are trading for, and not KD.

Yeah, I had though JRoy meant two team deal. I guess it depends on how many of those picks are from the Nets. I can see them trading one first rounder and Simmons to end up with Herro. I can't see them giving up more on their side.

[JB7]

Why would Brooklyn do this? They're not looking to build Portland East there. Lillard didn't accomplish anything with McCollum. He's not going to accomplish anything with Bridges while being older and with a terrible contract. 3 first round picks to put together a worse team than they had a season ago?

I think what you're missing is that the good teams probably already have big contracts and can't afford Lillard and the bad teams, it doesn't make sense for them to give up draft capital or young players for an aging Lillard. You're then left with middling teams who want to take a jump and have a few assets. There aren't many of those around.

The Lillard contract and age significantly reduce his value because not many will take him on..

The reason I could see Brooklyn doing this is they have no incentive to lose. Since they don't control their own picks, losing is definitely not something they are interested in. And who knows if the Suns picks turn out to be anything. The earlier picks and swaps are probably worth trading, because they will probably not materialize into anything. Also, the bonus of getting out from under the Simmons problem.

I could see Portland making this deal, hoping that Simmons could do more for them then Herro (since they already have a loaded backcourt), and banking on the Suns picks being better than the Heat picks.

I could see the Nets holding onto the outyear Suns picks though, with the hope they might cash into something. This is Dame they are trading for, and not KD.

Yeah, I had though JRoy meant two team deal. I guess it depends on how many of those picks are from the Nets. I can see them trading one first rounder and Simmons to end up with Herro. I can't see them giving up more on their side.

It could be a three team deal with Miami, or even a straight deal between the Nets and Blazers, if the Nets prefer Dame over Herro.

[Tacoma]

With all due respect to JRoy, his comfort level with sitting Dame has exactly 0 relevance to this conversation.

The KD deal is not a comp for Dame. KD has 1 less year, is 15% cheaper, is a better player and was traded prior to the new CBA. Additionally, if it wasn't for new ownership, it's unlikely the Suns would have paid that price.

Dame's contract extension was awful when it was signed. It's even worse under the current CBA. There's 2 years of value on that deal with 2 years of even money at best and negative value in most likely scenario. No sensible person looks at that and summizes that his value will stay even 1 year from now. Even if he maintains his production, I'd point you the CBA restrictions that he would introduce and why he would more than likely net out as a negative on a team's cap sheet.

Portland needs to find a trade by the deadline. The pressure is on them.

Well, to all respect to JRoy, that comment was for Merit bringing him into the discussion saying he would prefer to move Dame as soon as possible - so it had relevance to that conversation.

As for KD, the point is, he was on term and asked out, Brooklyn said sure and set an incredibly high price, cause they could and it forced KD to retract his trade demand. Brooklyn could wait as he's on term, couldn't care if it was 2years, 3 years or 4 years, the point is the term gave Brooklyn leverage to find a trade they wanted. As for Dame, Portland's in the driver seat cause Dame is locked in for 4 years and term gives them leverage. Dame can't sit out or he won't get paid. Dame can't attack the franchise or he'll destroy the rep he's built. Dame has been put on notice that he'll be sanctioned by the league. Dame has no choice but to play for Portland if Portland chooses that - and they are very open to that. Portland has 4 years and they'll keep making money with Dame until Portland finds a trade they want to take. Portland does not have to trade Dame at all, they are under no deadline and they certainly don't have to trade him to the Heat, why is that such a hard thing to accept. They could easily wait till next offseason and who knows, maybe he'll enjoy playing with Scoot.

As for the new CBA, I understand some of the nuances but not nearly as much as someone like DanH or real capologists. Teams are pretty cap savvy and in 2026/27, the last year of Dames contract, the cap will be at least 171.8m with a 2nd apron line of 229.9m. If he's playing close to his career averages, I don't see the negative value.

There is pressure on Portland to move Damian Lillard eventually as they will be a tax team in 2024-25 if they keep him and don't shed salary somewhere else. I don't see any ownership willing to pay the tax for a team that didn't even make the play-in tournament in the last two seasons, realistically they probably aren't going to be making the playoffs this year because they'll want to force feed developing young players like Scoot and Sharpe minutes, that doesn't usually translate into winning a lot of games (relying on players who can't even legally drink for wins).

It makes absolutely no sense for them to keep Lillard long term, it would be extremely surprising if he isn't traded by the 2023-24 trade deadline they way KD was last season. If they play him they also risk him suffering a freak season or even career ending injury which would tank what trade value he has now, in the worst case they could be stuck eating his contract or trading him for virtually nothing.

Agreed. On possible injury risk, Dame has missed 77 games (47%) of his games the past 2 seasons and the older into 30's, the more susceptible to injury and risk goes up. There's also the risk of performance decline as he ages into mid-30's.

Durant, for example, starting declining last year at 33 unable to lead his team as effectively in the playoffs. Dame is already 33 & could follow suit and he's not as good as Durant in the first place. Tack on his extension that will pay him $60M+ when he's 35+, superimposed against his expected performance drop and I can't see trade offers getting better with time.

This is also why I don't like the Raptors trading Barnes for Dame. Too many risks and I'd rather take my chances on Barnes.