Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 8

payitforward · Post #621 » by **payitforward** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:07 am

Dat -- this is exceedingly cool. Can you provide a little background on how you constructed these lists?

Dat2U · Post #622 » by **Dat2U** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:40 pm

payitforward wrote:Dat -- this is exceedingly cool. Can you provide a little background on how you constructed these lists?

Based off:
***role/usage > weighted ranking based on size of offensive role. A 1st option guy has very different demands than a 4th option player with far lesser usage.
***recent playoff performance
***availability
***age > likely development
***EPM, RPM & BPM as considerations.

DCZards · Post #623 » by **DCZards** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:53 pm

Hard to argue with most of your rankings, Dat. It’s pretty consistent with what would be my top players by position. A list like this becomes murky after the first 15 or so players, imo. There's always an increased level of opinion and subjectivity in the second half of the list. That’s to be expected.

There are some rankings I’d take issue with. These are the ones that jump out at me.

I rank Jamal Murray ahead of Ja Morant. Morant may give you more oohhs and aahhs, but Murray is the better, more fundamentally sound bball player, imo. Plus Murray is a much better 3pt shooter—shooting almost 40% from 3 last season whereas Ja shot just under 31%. Not to mention that Murray is an NBA champion.

Keegan Murray will be (or already is) better than several players you have ahead of him, including Hardaway and Grimes.

Despite his defensive shortcomings and questionable decision making, Jordan Poole’s offensive chops are too good for him to be ranked that low. He’s excelled on pro basketball’s biggest stage—the NBA Finals. That’s something that a Kevin Huerter hasn’t come close to doing.

No way should John Collins be at the bottom of the PF list. I give him a clear edge over Boucher, Toppin and a few others ahead of him on the list. I can’t rank someone like Boucher who averages 20 mins a game against back ups over a quality starter like Collins. No Tobias Harris?

Prior to the 2020 draft I labeled Quickley one of my “sleepers” (so I’m a fan of his), but Quickley, for my money, is too streaky to merit a ranking ahead of the more consistent and more well-rounded Tyus Jones. I also think you have Reaves ranked a little too high. Need to see more more from him before I put him ahead of someone like Dejounte Murray.

I’m not ready to rank Holmgren that high quite yet. He hasn’t done anything to earn it, imo. Rudy Gobert is a three-time defensive player of year. I absolutely have to rank him ahead of Holmgren. I also can’t see Chet being ranked ahead of Victor W. at this point. Also, Steven Adams is ranked far too high.

Dat2U · Post #624 » by **Dat2U** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:55 pm

Wizards
Pos.Rank Player
25 Gafford
17 Kuzma
NR Kispert
22 Poole
28 Jones
----
31 Wright
NR Avdija
NR Shamet
NR Gallinari
NR Muscala
NR Coulibaly
NR Baldwin Jr

Guys of note
14-PG (43) Beal (would have been 9th at SG)
8-PF (41) Porzingis (would have been 5th at C)
33-PG Morris

doclinkin · Post #625 » by **doclinkin** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:Wizards
Pos.Rank Player
25 Gafford
17 Kuzma
NR Kispert
22 Poole
28 Jones
----
31 Wright
NR Avdija
NR Shamet
NR Gallinari
NR Muscala
NR Coulibaly
NR Baldwin Jr

Guys of note
14-PG (43) Beal (would have been 9th at SG)
8-PF (41) Porzingis (would have been 5th at C)
33-PG Morris

It'd be cool to see all teams.

Then we can play with the expansion draft exercise cited in the line-ups thread: what are the 2 best teams you can assemble, from a pool where the top 8 players of all teams are protected, and each expansion team can only pick 1 player from each team.

EDIT:

Though as a rough sketch you could just pick from the bottom 3 of each of Dat's list. (Though that's equivalent to each team only protecting their top 5, I guess)

Picking serpentine fashion (Seattle, Vegas, Vegas, Seattle, Seattle, Vegas, Vegas, Seattle...) I come up with:

Seattle Sonics:
Monte Morris
Jalen Suggs
Josh Green
Cedi Osman
Larry Nance Jr

Vegas Bandits:
Delon Wright
Coby White
Jeremy Sochan
John Collins
Naz Reid

Pretty balanced. Those teams could compete with various Wizards teams we have fielded in recent history.

Post #626 » by **montestewart** » Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:33 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Wizards
Pos.Rank Player
25 Gafford
17 Kuzma
NR Kispert
22 Poole
28 Jones
----
31 Wright
NR Avdija
NR Shamet
NR Gallinari
NR Muscala
NR Coulibaly
NR Baldwin Jr

Guys of note
14-PG (43) Beal (would have been 9th at SG)
8-PF (41) Porzingis (would have been 5th at C)
33-PG Morris

It'd be cool to see all teams.

Then we can play with the expansion draft exercise cited in the line-ups thread: what are the 2 best teams you can assemble, from a pool where the top 8 players of all teams are protected, and each expansion team can only pick 1 player from each team.

EDIT:

Though as a rough sketch you could just pick from the bottom 3 of each of Dat's list. (Though that's equivalent to each team only protecting their top 5, I guess)

Picking serpentine fashion (Seattle, Vegas, Vegas, Seattle, Seattle, Vegas, Vegas, Seattle...) I come up with:

Seattle Sonics:
Monte Morris
Jalen Suggs
Josh Green
Cedi Osman
Larry Nance Jr

Vegas Bandits:
Delon Wright
Coby White
Jeremy Sochan
John Collins
Naz Reid

Pretty balanced. Those teams could compete with various Wizards teams we have fielded in recent history.

The Wizards are finally thinking sort of like an expansion team: no stars, a couple of younger hotshot veterans to excite the crowd, and a lot of rookies,FA prospects, journeymen, castoffs, etc., preparing to endure some bad seasons while waiting for some lottery luck to propel them toward contender status. And if the lottery doesn’t save them, then hopefully good personnel moves and good coaching will field at least a good team.

FAH1223 · Post #627 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:49 pm

Read on Twitter

gambitx777 · Post #628 » by **gambitx777** » Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:03 pm

Haven't been around much but I'm eagerly awaiting the flood gates to open. Like the heat need to make moves. The harden stuff is wild. No dame news

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Post #629 » by **nate33** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:08 am

The Thunder just waived Garuba. It'll be interesting to see if we pick him up, given our OKC connections.

closg00 · Post #630 » by **closg00** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:50 am

nate33 wrote:The Thunder just waived Garuba. It'll be interesting to see if we pick him up, given our OKC connections.

They also waived Ty Ty Washington who was a big dropper on that draft night.

payitforward · Post #631 » by **payitforward** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:10 am

Interesting!
I'd be happy to have either one of those guys -- or both of them. These are a couple of 21-year old kids -- seems kind of early to give up on them.
(Not that OKC waiving them means they gave up on them.... They have a zillion guys under contract!)

Post #632 » by **nate33** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:25 am

payitforward wrote:Interesting!
I'd be happy to have either one of those guys -- or both of them. These are a couple of 21-year old kids -- seems kind of early to give up on them.
(Not that OKC waiving them means they gave up on them.... They have a zillion guys under contract!)

Ty Ty is interesting, but since we already have 4 PGs on the roster, I figured Garuba would be the better fit. We would need to cut or trade someone, though.

I mean, seriously, why not cut Cooks and grab Garuba? Do we really think Cooks is indispensable?

doclinkin · Post #633 » by **doclinkin** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:06 am

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Interesting!
I'd be happy to have either one of those guys -- or both of them. These are a couple of 21-year old kids -- seems kind of early to give up on them.
(Not that OKC waiving them means they gave up on them.... They have a zillion guys under contract!)

Ty Ty is interesting, but since we already have 4 PGs on the roster, I figured Garuba would be the better fit. We would need to cut or trade someone, though.

I mean, seriously, why not cut Cooks and grab Garuba? Do we really think Cooks is indispensable?

Or pick him on a 2-way. We have one left after Butler and Omoruyi.

Frichuela · Post #634 » by **Frichuela** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:40 pm

Man, I truly hope they get Garuba. He is a defensive beast. Watch him at FIBA World Cup in coming days…

Frichuela · Post #635 » by **Frichuela** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:41 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=GWeuz7j_sc5cBYZzdD92Tw

gambitx777 · Post #636 » by **gambitx777** » Sun Aug 20, 2023 3:46 am

I've seen nothing about gurraba getting cut but Washington did get cut and id toss out last two way at him.

I'm not a gurabba fan like most people here I see him as an MKG kind of player I don't think he'll ever be as good as he could be .

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Post #637 » by **nate33** » Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:09 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I've seen nothing about gurraba getting cut but Washington did get cut and id toss out last two way at him.

I'm not a gurabba fan like most people here I see him as an MKG kind of player I don't think he'll ever be as good as he could be .

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Yeah, I misread the article. I was multi-tasking at the time. Garuba was mentioned as having been acquired with Ty Ty, but only Ty Ty was cut. There is no word on what they're going to do with Garuba.

Post #638 » by **nate33** » Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:50 pm

It's in the news now. Garuba has been waived by OKC:

Post #639 » by **nate33** » Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:55 pm

Sign him into our third 2-way spot. If that's not a good enough offer for him, cut Cooks and sign him to a minimum salary.

Cooks could conceivably be a useful defensive role player at the 4, but let's face it, if Cooks ever plays this season, it will only be as a smallball 5. He'll never play the 4 when behind Kuzma, Avdija, Gallinari and Baldwin in the depth chart. It would be better to utilize that spot for an actual smallball 5 like Garuba instead of non-shooting 4. We currently only have Gafford and Muscala to play the 5.

dckingsfan · Post #640 » by **dckingsfan** » Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:59 pm

nate33 wrote:Sign him into our third 2-way spot. If that's not a good enough offer for him, cut Cooks and sign him to a minimum salary.

Cooks could conceivably be a useful defensive role player at the 4, but let's face it, if Cooks ever plays this season, it will only be as a smallball 5. He'll never play the 4 when behind Kuzma, Avdija, Gallinari and Baldwin in the depth chart. It would be better to utilize that spot for an actual smallball 5 like Garuba instead of non-shooting 4. We currently only have Gafford and Muscala to play the 5.

This. There is zero reason not to have Garuba over Cooks. Then there is the notion that Garuba could morph into a solid stretch rim protecting PF.

Given our direction, why wouldn't you do this?