Gold Medalist Questions the NBA Champs Being Deemed "World" Champs

[Mirotic12]

Generally I agree but the comparison between the English Premier League is a bit off base. The gap between that league (even assuming it's the best) and the Spanish league or the Bundesliga is much, much smaller than the gap between the NBA and say, FIBA.

The gap between the NBA and the EuroLeague isn't that big. Even though it seems very popular in these forums to say so.

From when the current EuroLeague started, so after FIBA no longer controlled it, the league played against NBA teams with NBA rules and refs. Let's all think about that for a second here, the games between NBA and EuroLeague teams were played with NBA rules and refs.

Now, let's use the proper context of the eras. The EuroLeague didn't really get to such a high level until the 2010s. In the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the level of the EuroLeague was much lower than it is now. Then in the 2000s it got a lot stronger, and then in the 2010s it basically became even stronger. The level of the EuroLeague in the 2010s is the peak level of it.

Now, let's take the EuroLeague from when it finally had really developed, by the 2010s decade, and look at how the EuroLeague teams did against the NBA teams, playing with NBA rules and refs.

2010s EuroLeague against NBA, playing under NBA rules.

NBA was 20-8. And it wasn't like it was just the best EuroLeague teams playing either. Some EuroLeague teams with losing records were playing in those games.

Again, that is playing with NBA rules........

A record of 8-20, would project to a record of 23-59 over an 82 game NBA season. That assumes, that none of the EuroLeague teams would be able to improve at all, once they got used to playing under NBA rules and reffing. Which of course is a ridiculous notion. Of course EuroLeague teams would get significantly better, once they fully adjusted to NBA rules and ref criteria.

[Mirotic12]

They are a professional sports FRANCHISE!

This is VERY important when talking about why the NBA champions are the world champions. It is a closed league. If you're a team outside of it or a player outside. You don't matter! This assures that the overwhelming majority of talent will go to the NBA. It assures that NBA franchises will generate the most possible money to support paying and bringing in global talent.

That is what this silly "club" title you're talking about doesn't matter. That's a tournament for people not good enough to be in the NBA. If you're not on a franchised team with the NBA, your professional team well don't just don't matter. And it's a real shame Soccer hasn't taken this model up. It would greatly improve the product.

Around the world, and in the USA, pro sports franchises are very commonly called sports clubs. This is absolute fact.

They aren't. The NBA model is very clear. The term club is not used in the US, but more importantly the NBA model and the professional model used in europe are night and day different. Calling a professional team a "club"... just sounds idiotic. Clubs are groups where people get together to go drink and have fun. They aren't professional organizations. A franchise is a VERY specific legal term. Now you've made it clear you don't know what legal means in this thread. I get that. So I"m here to correct you.

Yes it is, and very commonly also.

[eminence]

They did the whole McDonalds Champions thing, the US went 18-0, it was a waste of time. When there's such a clear disparity there's really not much point in the competition. So, I have no problem with the NBA champ calling themselves the World Champion. We all understand there's a difference between club/national champions I hope. It's fine for each to just call themselves the World Champion even if they don't/can't play one another (eg players could be members on both squads). Maybe someday other leagues will have squads good enough to make it interesting and the idea should be revisited.

[Mirotic12]

And the nba could change their name to world basketball association and the same would apply. It would be the same teams and players playing.

Is the nba the only major basketball league that doesn't restrict players based on their origins? The nba could have 100% non-American players according to the rules. I know many other leagues restrict how many Americans can be on the team. Any such league cannot be a world champion league.

No it is not. Just off the top of my head.....

EuroLeague
FIBA Basketball Champions League
EuroCup
FIBA Europe Cup
VTB United League
ABA (Adriatic League)
FIBA Basketball Champions League Americas
Basketball Africa League

As far as I know, none of those leagues has any restrictions at all on player origins.

Also, all of this talk about how many players in the NBA are from different countries and different continents, somehow makes it a "world championship". Well, if that is the case, then any important league in the world is also a world championship.

All the relevant leagues in Europe, the NBL in Australia, the BCL Americas league, they all have players from many different countries and several continents. The European leagues probably have more countries represented than the NBA does.

So based on this logic, there are several "world leagues", and the European-wide leagues are probably even more "global" than the NBA is.

There isn't a single argument that has been made here in favor of the NBA champions being called the world champions that holds up under even the slightest tiniest bit of scrutiny. Just applying the same logic and criteria to other leagues around the world, and numerous other basketball leagues have the same claims to being so-called "world leagues", or "global leagues", or "world championships", as the NBA does.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The NBA champion can be considered the NBA World Champion
Sounds dumb but I am ok with it.
For sure it's not the Basketball World Champion as you need to actually compete in open format for that.

A true open format is not logistically possible. Also it just isn't necessary because all of the best teams would be NBA teams anyway no matter how many different international leagues they played against.

But since the NBA happens to employ the vast majority of the top 450 basketball players in the world, including all of the guys who are a "superstar" level talent, I would say the NBA playoffs are already doing a good job of determining who the best in the world is.

you might be the best, but you're not the champion until you actually win.
I think this is pretty basic stuff.
But, again, they can call themselves NBA World Champion, for all that matters. Sounds stupid but who GAF about it?

[Masigond]

The winner of the best league in the world can quite reasonably be called the best team in the world, but the only true world champion is the winner of a world cup.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

The NBA champion can be considered the NBA World Champion
Sounds dumb but I am ok with it.
For sure it's not the Basketball World Champion as you need to actually compete in open format for that.

What's not "open" about the NBA format? The only real restriction to compete is to enter the draft. Individuals have the least restrictions in the NBA than any other team setting I can think of. Now obviously we have a fixed number of TEAMS, but that's a critical element of why the NBA's product is of the highest quality and it can demand the top talent and pay for it.

But the foundation of any sports event needs to be the freedom of the individual first and foremost. Next the team would need to be able to build the best possible roster from the top talent.

Now the NBA is by no means a perfect system here, but it's the best we have. From there, I can see that by fixing the number of teams it limits new owners. But I don't see where this is a significant problem. How many people need to be able to profit to reach the needed goals? Again the NBA isn't perfect, but it has the goal to maximize profits and to do that it has to create the best product. And I think those goals seem to be working pretty well together to give us what we want for a proper best sports league.

is this a real question? seriously? what is open?
that's the definition of a closed format.
teams win, not single players

[MoneyTalks41890]

And the nba could change their name to world basketball association and the same would apply. It would be the same teams and players playing.

Is the nba the only major basketball league that doesn't restrict players based on their origins? The nba could have 100% non-American players according to the rules. I know many other leagues restrict how many Americans can be on the team. Any such league cannot be a world champion league.

No it is not. Just off the top of my head.....

EuroLeague
FIBA Basketball Champions League
EuroCup
FIBA Europe Cup
VTB United League
ABA (Adriatic League)
FIBA Basketball Champions League Americas
Basketball Africa League

As far as I know, none of those leagues has any restrictions at all on player origins.

Also, all of this talk about how many players in the NBA are from different countries and different continents, somehow makes it a "world championship". Well, if that is the case, then any important league in the world is also a world championship.

All the relevant leagues in Europe, the NBL in Australia, the BCL Americas league, they all have players from many different countries and several continents. The European leagues probably have more countries represented than the NBA does.

So based on this logic, there are several "world leagues", and the European-wide leagues are probably even more "global" than the NBA is.

There isn't a single argument that has been made here in favor of the NBA champions being called the world champions that hold up under even the slightest tiniest bit of scrutiny. Just applying the same logic and criteria to other leagues around the world, and numerous other basketball leagues have the same claims to being so-called "world leagues", or "global leagues", or "world championships", as the NBA does.

If you look at all of these leagues together and want to identify the 30 best teams, they would all be from the NBA.

Who are the “worst” NBA teams, Spurs, Rockets, Pistons, Hornets? Which team outside the NBA beats them?

[Mirotic12]

They aren't. The NBA model is very clear. The term club is not used in the US, but more importantly the NBA model and the professional model used in europe are night and day different. Calling a professional team a "club"... just sounds idiotic. Clubs are groups where people get together to go drink and have fun. They aren't professional organizations. A franchise is a VERY specific legal term. Now you've made it clear you don't know what legal means in this thread. I get that. So I"m here to correct you.

Florentino Perez and the bunch must be drunk as f**k everyday. CLUB de futbol REAL MADRID, that must be one hell of a party where the members drink and have fun. It obviously doesn't sound idiotic and is a common practice around the World for teams to have a word CLUB in their name.

I can't speak for that organization but the roots of a lot of these european "clubs" were that they were clubs originally! And look, that model is perfectly fine. I believe baseball in the states also had those roots with the original organizations, though certainly not with newer teams added after the fact, those are just classic franchises. But the term club is very broad and overwhelmingly is a social group!

The NBA is however a legit business with a true franchise model and that's how it runs. The roots aren't social clubs.

It is very common in the United States to refer to pro sports teams as pro sports clubs. What in the heck are you even arguing about?

[Evenacus]

They aren't. The NBA model is very clear. The term club is not used in the US, but more importantly the NBA model and the professional model used in europe are night and day different. Calling a professional team a "club"... just sounds idiotic. Clubs are groups where people get together to go drink and have fun. They aren't professional organizations. A franchise is a VERY specific legal term. Now you've made it clear you don't know what legal means in this thread. I get that. So I"m here to correct you.

Florentino Perez and the bunch must be drunk as f**k everyday. CLUB de futbol REAL MADRID, that must be one hell of a party where the members drink and have fun. It obviously doesn't sound idiotic and is a common practice around the World for teams to have a word CLUB in their name.

I can't speak for that organization but the roots of a lot of these european "clubs" were that they were clubs originally! And look, that model is perfectly fine. I believe baseball in the states also had those roots with the original organizations, though certainly not with newer teams added after the fact, those are just classic franchises. But the term club is very broad and overwhelmingly is a social group!

The NBA is however a legit business with a true franchise model and that's how it runs. The roots aren't social clubs.

This last sentence of yours was the main difference between sports collectives in Europe and most in USA. American franchises were made for a singular purpose of making money. On the other hand, most of European ones came to be as, as you said it, social groups, people connected by similar status etc. There is some movement nowdays for top football clubs to form a closed league like the NBA, but it was met with sanctions from football associations and a cold reception from the supporters.
I will simply acknowledge the fact that we disagree. I do not believe those grounds you've layed out are enough for the NBA to be proclaimed as "de facto" World Championship. With the existence of other competitions ( such as World cup, Olympics and event that semi defunct club championship organized by FIBA) I feel they are a better representation of the World ( Olympics and World cup at least). In addition, I refuse to acknowledge that a World champion can come out of the league driven solely by the goal of making vast amounts of money for a closed number of owners and a small number of select " best" players. Not to mention PEDs abuse and other shady practices which other worldvide competitions heavily scrutinize and punish. My 5 cents

[Mirotic12]

They did the whole McDonalds Champions thing, the US went 18-0, it was a waste of time. When there's such a clear disparity there's really not much point in the competition. So, I have no problem with the NBA champ calling themselves the World Champion. We all understand there's a difference between club/national champions I hope. It's fine for each to just call themselves the World Champion even if they don't/can't play one another (eg players could be members on both squads). Maybe someday other leagues will have squads good enough to make it interesting and the idea should be revisited.

2010 EuroLeague champions versus 2010 NBA champions:

EuroLeague champions Barcelona 92

NBA champions Los Angeles Lakers 88

The game was played under NBA rules and the EuroLeague champs still beat the NBA champs.

Watch on YouTube

You can't compare the level of the EuroLeague from the 80s and 90s when the McDonald's Championship happened, to the level of the EuroLeague from the late 2000s onward. The level of the EuroLeague teams since the late 2000s, is much higher than it was in the 80s and 90s.

[NotaHypeJob]

Europe thought they were better than everyone and started colonizing the world. America calls their sports leagues title holders world champs. Which is worse?

[The4thHorseman]

Florentino Perez and the bunch must be drunk as f**k everyday. CLUB de futbol REAL MADRID, that must be one hell of a party where the members drink and have fun. It obviously doesn't sound idiotic and is a common practice around the World for teams to have a word CLUB in their name.

I can't speak for that organization but the roots of a lot of these european "clubs" were that they were clubs originally! And look, that model is perfectly fine. I believe baseball in the states also had those roots with the original organizations, though certainly not with newer teams added after the fact, those are just classic franchises. But the term club is very broad and overwhelmingly is a social group!

The NBA is however a legit business with a true franchise model and that's how it runs. The roots aren't social clubs.

It is very common in the United States to refer to pro sports teams as pro sports clubs. What in the heck are you even arguing about?

Which pro sports is it common to refer to as a club? Everytime I've heard the expression "ball club" in the States, it's in reference to a Baseball team.

[Mirotic12]

I can't speak for that organization but the roots of a lot of these european "clubs" were that they were clubs originally! And look, that model is perfectly fine. I believe baseball in the states also had those roots with the original organizations, though certainly not with newer teams added after the fact, those are just classic franchises. But the term club is very broad and overwhelmingly is a social group!

The NBA is however a legit business with a true franchise model and that's how it runs. The roots aren't social clubs.

It is very common in the United States to refer to pro sports teams as pro sports clubs. What in the heck are you even arguing about?

Which pro sports is it common to refer to as a club? Everytime I've heard the expression "ball club" in the States, it's in reference to a Baseball team.

It's very common to call any pro sports team that in the USA. Always has been.

[eminence]

They did the whole McDonalds Champions thing, the US went 18-0, it was a waste of time. When there's such a clear disparity there's really not much point in the competition. So, I have no problem with the NBA champ calling themselves the World Champion. We all understand there's a difference between club/national champions I hope. It's fine for each to just call themselves the World Champion even if they don't/can't play one another (eg players could be members on both squads). Maybe someday other leagues will have squads good enough to make it interesting and the idea should be revisited.

2010 EuroLeague champions versus 2010 NBA champions:

EuroLeague champions Barcelona 92

NBA champions Los Angeles Lakers 88

The game was played under NBA rules and the EuroLeague champs still beat the NBA champs.

Watch on YouTube

You can't compare the level of the EuroLeague from the 80s and 90s when the McDonald's Championship happened, to the level of the EuroLeague from the late 2000s onward. The level of the EuroLeague teams since the late 2000s, is much higher than it was in the 80s and 90s.

Sure, they've gotten closer, close enough to matter? Not really. And a friendly game with a minutes restricted Kobe isn't exactly inspiring evidence otherwise.

[The4thHorseman]

It is very common in the United States to refer to pro sports teams as pro sports clubs. What in the heck are you even arguing about?

Which pro sports is it common to refer to as a club? Everytime I've heard the expression "ball club" in the States, it's in reference to a Baseball team.

It's very common to call any pro sports team that in the USA. Always has been.

Not if you (not you directly) were born and raised in the States. Not common at all.

[KillMonger]

so ultimately this is an argument about semantics.....because it's not going to lead to anything changing so........

[NoDopeOnSundays]

It is very common in the United States to refer to pro sports teams as pro sports clubs. What in the heck are you even arguing about?

Which pro sports is it common to refer to as a club? Everytime I've heard the expression "ball club" in the States, it's in reference to a Baseball team.

It's very common to call any pro sports team that in the USA. Always has been.

It's not that common, you hear it in baseball mostly, and obviously you'll hear it in MLS. But nobody is really referring to the Lakers or Cowboys as clubs, especially not in everyday language between fans.

[the sea duck]

the best the nba can claim is that their champ is the world champ. the best anyone else can claim is that there is no world champ.

[Statlanta]

Which is more legit a league where Spannolis doesn't play or a league where Rondae Hollis Jefferson can play for a country like Jordan