Haynes: Damian Lillard Requests Trade

[Fairview4Life]

I see this trade and I say yeah that’s pretty fair for Lillard but you gotta ask what the upside is for the Raptors. Are we a contender in the next two years while Lillard is at his peak? Nope. What’s the upside for the Raptors?

I don't know how you can look at the roster with Lillard and just say nope, they aren't contenders. A 44 win team just won the east. There are no killers in our conference. That team can absolutely go to the finals.

That 44 win team was an outlier that had a player playing at a MVP level in the playoffs, got lucky with matchups and injuries, has one of the best coaches in the league and had all of their role players shooting at an insane clip heading into the finals.

Miami still had the core of their finals team from the bubble last year and a lot of things fell into place for that run. And I’m not confident that we could fill in the roster gaps and make the adjustments with a brand new head coach in the 2 year window that we’ll have for Lillard to perform at a high level.

Lillard/Schroder
GTJ/OPJ
OG or Barnes/McDaniels
Siakam/Achiuwa
Poeltl/Koloko

That team has the offense and defense to win the east. There are no guarantees but who exactly are you worried about? What teams are so significantly better that you're fine throwing out a nope offhand? Lillard was an elite scorer last season. Pascal's defense goes back to normal if he isn't asked to carry that offensive load. We now have competent bench guards and elite defense from our wings assuming it's Barnes going out and not OG. That team is efficient on both ends of the court.

[YogurtProducer]

This is the trade ESPN proposed:

Toronto Raptors get: Damian Lillard

Portland Trail Blazers get: O.G. Anunoby, Chris Boucher, Thad Young, Gradey Dick and two first-round picks

Bobby Marks ended up thinking neither side would be interested in this. Personally I feel like this is a good trade for the Raps, as I think Pascal would be down for an extension if this happened and you'd be able to get Dame without giving up Scottie. The bench would be a bit depleted, and you'd still have spacing issues with starting unit (assuming a Siakam/Barnes/Poeltl frontcourt).

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/38378452/damian-lillard-trade-possibilities-miami-heat-philadelphia-76ers-toronto-raptors-new-orleans-pelicans

No thanks from POR.

Bro what the hell do you think Portland is getting?

Like honestly what is a package you would accept at his point? All I see is how Portland is not interested in any package

[YogurtProducer]

I see this trade and I say yeah that’s pretty fair for Lillard but you gotta ask what the upside is for the Raptors. Are we a contender in the next two years while Lillard is at his peak? Nope. What’s the upside for the Raptors?

What’s the alternative ? Remain mediocre and blindly try to make this Siakam/Scottie thing work ?

I rather do a rebuild personally but I’ll take this Dame trade over watching Siakam and Scottie post their man up from the 3 point line for the next several years any day of the week.

Exactly my stance. A rebuild should have happened at the past trade deadline but since we are clearly trying to be competitive, might as well do that with a much better team.

Lillard/ Schroder
Trent/ McDaniels
Barnes/ Porter
Siakam/ Precious
Poeltl/ Koloko

The above team is a contender imo. Not favourites but a team that can win it all with the right bounces and/or other additions. Give me this scenario over whatever the hell is currently going on with the roster.

If you want to win now though you cant have Barnes/Siakam combo. Anunoby/SIakam makes just a hell of a lot more sense.

[YogurtProducer]

I see this trade and I say yeah that’s pretty fair for Lillard but you gotta ask what the upside is for the Raptors. Are we a contender in the next two years while Lillard is at his peak? Nope. What’s the upside for the Raptors?

I don't know how you can look at the roster with Lillard and just say nope, they aren't contenders. A 44 win team just won the east. There are no killers in our conference. That team can absolutely go to the finals.

That 44 win team was an outlier that had a player playing at a MVP level in the playoffs, got lucky with matchups and injuries, has one of the best coaches in the league and had all of their role players shooting at an insane clip heading into the finals.

Miami still had the core of their finals team from the bubble last year and a lot of things fell into place for that run. And I’m not confident that we could fill in the roster gaps and make the adjustments with a brand new head coach in the 2 year window that we’ll have for Lillard to perform at a high level.

Wouldn't Dame, a guy who literally just put up 32/6/5 on elite efficiency, be an MVP candidate if he played on even a decent team?

[YogurtProducer]

The longer this drags the higher the odds I think we emerge as a trade candidate - ESPECIALLY if it drags long enough to be able to include guys like Schroder in the deal as salary matching.

A deal comes much easier once Schroder / Temple can be added in for salary matching purposes.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

The longer this drags the higher the odds I think we emerge as a trade candidate - ESPECIALLY if it drags long enough to be able to include guys like Schroder in the deal as salary matching.

A deal comes much easier once Schroder / Temple can be added in for salary matching purposes.

when is schroder available: dec/jan?

[AkelaLoneWolf]

This is the trade ESPN proposed:

Toronto Raptors get: Damian Lillard

Portland Trail Blazers get: O.G. Anunoby, Chris Boucher, Thad Young, Gradey Dick and two first-round picks

Bobby Marks ended up thinking neither side would be interested in this. Personally I feel like this is a good trade for the Raps, as I think Pascal would be down for an extension if this happened and you'd be able to get Dame without giving up Scottie. The bench would be a bit depleted, and you'd still have spacing issues with starting unit (assuming a Siakam/Barnes/Poeltl frontcourt).

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/38378452/damian-lillard-trade-possibilities-miami-heat-philadelphia-76ers-toronto-raptors-new-orleans-pelicans

i would do this trade sans Gradey; we would still need 3 point shooting . replace him with something else.

[mtcan]

This is the trade ESPN proposed:

Toronto Raptors get: Damian Lillard

Portland Trail Blazers get: O.G. Anunoby, Chris Boucher, Thad Young, Gradey Dick and two first-round picks

Bobby Marks ended up thinking neither side would be interested in this. Personally I feel like this is a good trade for the Raps, as I think Pascal would be down for an extension if this happened and you'd be able to get Dame without giving up Scottie. The bench would be a bit depleted, and you'd still have spacing issues with starting unit (assuming a Siakam/Barnes/Poeltl frontcourt).

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/38378452/damian-lillard-trade-possibilities-miami-heat-philadelphia-76ers-toronto-raptors-new-orleans-pelicans

i would do this trade sans Gradey; we would still need 3 point shooting . replace him with something else.

If you get Dame...keep OG and trade Scottie instead. OG gives us a better chance at winning in the near future which is really the focus should we get a guy like Dame.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

This is the trade ESPN proposed:



Bobby Marks ended up thinking neither side would be interested in this. Personally I feel like this is a good trade for the Raps, as I think Pascal would be down for an extension if this happened and you'd be able to get Dame without giving up Scottie. The bench would be a bit depleted, and you'd still have spacing issues with starting unit (assuming a Siakam/Barnes/Poeltl frontcourt).

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/38378452/damian-lillard-trade-possibilities-miami-heat-philadelphia-76ers-toronto-raptors-new-orleans-pelicans

i would do this trade sans Gradey; we would still need 3 point shooting . replace him with something else.

If you get Dame...keep OG and trade Scottie instead. OG gives us a better chance at winning in the near future which is really the focus should we get a guy like Dame.

i'm not against it per se but would be tough on two fronts: 1. you're giving up on a blue chip prospect; no other trade proposal will come to that. 2. its tough to match contracts with barnes in the trade deal.

[YogurtProducer]

i would do this trade sans Gradey; we would still need 3 point shooting . replace him with something else.

If you get Dame...keep OG and trade Scottie instead. OG gives us a better chance at winning in the near future which is really the focus should we get a guy like Dame.

i'm not against it per se but would be tough on two fronts: 1. you're giving up on a blue chip prospect; no other trade proposal will come to that. 2. its tough to match contracts with barnes in the trade deal.

1. I would say that maybe a bleu chip prospect won't be offered, but someone will give up 8 years of control of first round picks I bet.

2. Lot easier once Schroder can be traded which some sources say is October 10th, but I am pretty sure it is December 15th like prior years

[Tha Cynic]

This is the trade ESPN proposed:



Bobby Marks ended up thinking neither side would be interested in this. Personally I feel like this is a good trade for the Raps, as I think Pascal would be down for an extension if this happened and you'd be able to get Dame without giving up Scottie. The bench would be a bit depleted, and you'd still have spacing issues with starting unit (assuming a Siakam/Barnes/Poeltl frontcourt).

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/38378452/damian-lillard-trade-possibilities-miami-heat-philadelphia-76ers-toronto-raptors-new-orleans-pelicans

No thanks from POR.

Bro what the hell do you think Portland is getting?

Like honestly what is a package you would accept at his point? All I see is how Portland is not interested in any package

Pretty sure he said earlier in the thread he would accept something centered around Ben Simmons.

[mtcan]

i would do this trade sans Gradey; we would still need 3 point shooting . replace him with something else.

If you get Dame...keep OG and trade Scottie instead. OG gives us a better chance at winning in the near future which is really the focus should we get a guy like Dame.

i'm not against it per se but would be tough on two fronts: 1. you're giving up on a blue chip prospect; no other trade proposal will come to that. 2. its tough to match contracts with barnes in the trade deal.

I get it...but unless Scottie's shooting really comes around and his defence picks up to an OG level...he won't help you as much as OG in this next season and possibly even the next couple of seasons.

Make a deal like this and you really need to maximize your chances of winning.

Can't straddle the fence between a youth movement and win-now if you invest in Dame's contract.

[Tha Cynic]

All of this comes down to whether you prefer to take a 1 or at max 2 year shot at a title and then crumble again like the last 3 years or whether you would prefer to re-tool completely.

Personally, I have no appetite for winning for one year with a good team and then sucking again and I feel like neither does Masai. That Leonard situation was a good lesson that winning for one year with no sustained success doesn't give the same vibes. Lillard is old. Lillard's skills will diminish in the next couple of years. There's a ton of history behind this. You're essentially putting yourself in cap hell where your team will be stuck with bad contracts for at least two years that can't be moved, even if you do win.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

If you get Dame...keep OG and trade Scottie instead. OG gives us a better chance at winning in the near future which is really the focus should we get a guy like Dame.

i'm not against it per se but would be tough on two fronts: 1. you're giving up on a blue chip prospect; no other trade proposal will come to that. 2. its tough to match contracts with barnes in the trade deal.

I get it...but unless Scottie's shooting really comes around and his defence picks up to an OG level...he won't help you as much as OG in this next season and possibly even the next couple of seasons.

Make a deal like this and you really need to maximize your chances of winning.

Can't straddle the fence between a youth movement and win-now if you invest in Dame's contract.

scottie might not be a generational player but he probably will be more impactful over the course of his career. i agree og has a skillset that would be a better fit but i would still bet on barnes impact over OG's.
having said, i'm ok with barnes being traded but prob would not give up other picks then.

[OakleyDokely]

Lillard is amazing and more teams should get involved in acquiring him regardless of what he says. But so many teams are so risk-adverse and are more than happy being stuck in the middle instead.

Lillard makes sense for a team who already has a legit superstar type player who is not also a combo guard. He's not a #1 player on a championship caliber team, but he can provide the scoring needed. For example, he would be perfect for a team like the 76ers or Pelicans since they're deep. Milwaukee also makes sense but they don't have the assets to acquire him.

I can't really see another team where he can help put them over the top. For teams like the Raptors and Bulls, he can help raise the ceiling, but ultimately too many other teams are better.

It's wide open. There's nothing close to a superteam. All the east teams have weaknesses and/or injury question marks. A 7th seed made the finals last year.

A team with a combination of Lillard/Siakam/Poeltl/OG/Barnes or Lillard/Lavine/DD/Vuc have a chance of beating anyone in the east at least.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

All of this comes down to whether you prefer to take a 1 or at max 2 year shot at a title and then crumble again like the last 3 years or whether you would prefer to re-tool completely.

Personally, I have no appetite for winning for one year with a good team and then sucking again and I feel like neither does Masai. That Leonard situation was a good lesson that winning for one year with no sustained success doesn't give the same vibes. Lillard is old. Lillard's skills will diminish in the next couple of years. There's a ton of history behind this. You're essentially putting yourself in cap hell where your team will be stuck with bad contracts for at least two years that can't be moved, even if you do win.

lillard put up all nba numbers last year. he's not diminishing anytime soon.
the only thing that matters in this league is winning. there are no guarantees in life. if you have a chance you take it.
chances are you fall on your ass; so what. its still worth doing.

[Tor_Raps]

What’s the alternative ? Remain mediocre and blindly try to make this Siakam/Scottie thing work ?

I rather do a rebuild personally but I’ll take this Dame trade over watching Siakam and Scottie post their man up from the 3 point line for the next several years any day of the week.

Exactly my stance. A rebuild should have happened at the past trade deadline but since we are clearly trying to be competitive, might as well do that with a much better team.

Lillard/ Schroder
Trent/ McDaniels
Barnes/ Porter
Siakam/ Precious
Poeltl/ Koloko

The above team is a contender imo. Not favourites but a team that can win it all with the right bounces and/or other additions. Give me this scenario over whatever the hell is currently going on with the roster.

If you want to win now though you cant have Barnes/Siakam combo. Anunoby/SIakam makes just a hell of a lot more sense.

I agree and we wouldn't have to give up Dick and/or other picks in that scenario too. As much as I love Barnes, I would try to assess as a team how much he's improved in the offseason and make the move accordingly.

[mtcan]

Exactly my stance. A rebuild should have happened at the past trade deadline but since we are clearly trying to be competitive, might as well do that with a much better team.

Lillard/ Schroder
Trent/ McDaniels
Barnes/ Porter
Siakam/ Precious
Poeltl/ Koloko

The above team is a contender imo. Not favourites but a team that can win it all with the right bounces and/or other additions. Give me this scenario over whatever the hell is currently going on with the roster.

If you want to win now though you cant have Barnes/Siakam combo. Anunoby/SIakam makes just a hell of a lot more sense.

I agree and we wouldn't have to give up Dick and/or other picks in that scenario too. As much as I love Barnes, I would try to assess as a team how much he's improved in the offseason and make the move accordingly.

Yup...agreed. I want to see if he has improved meaningfully before exploring win-now trades.

If his shooting has improved such that he isn't a liability on the offensive end and takes on the primary ball handling responsibilities...it would be a harder decision.

If he is more or less the same guy he was last season...maybe time to reconsider his future on the team and sell while the potential is still a selling point.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I was wondering if there already might be a deal in place for Lillard by a non-Miami team, and that team is waiting until the last possible moment for the best chance that Dame might soften his stance/ be in a better place to go somewhere else.

For example if Dame was traded a month a go, he could have still had a strong resolve to be in Miami, and perhaps not given that team a chance. The first impression would have been a negative one all around, and impacted the ability for the team and Dame to have a good relationship moving forward.

As we get closer to training camp, Dame is no doubt wanting to get things done and maybe realizes that just being on a competitive team is what he wants. In this scenario if he gets traded he's now more open to being on a non Miami team, and his intro to the team goes more smoothly, and is a better start to the relationship.

[NinjaBro]

All of this comes down to whether you prefer to take a 1 or at max 2 year shot at a title and then crumble again like the last 3 years or whether you would prefer to re-tool completely.

Personally, I have no appetite for winning for one year with a good team and then sucking again and I feel like neither does Masai. That Leonard situation was a good lesson that winning for one year with no sustained success doesn't give the same vibes. Lillard is old. Lillard's skills will diminish in the next couple of years. There's a ton of history behind this. You're essentially putting yourself in cap hell where your team will be stuck with bad contracts for at least two years that can't be moved, even if you do win.

The Kawhi experiment was a huge success even if it's only for one year. With the way the Raps were ran in its history I never thought we would win a title in my lifetime. It was all worth it. The mistake masai made was not selling off or assets the moment Kawhi left. He let let them walk for nothing which is why we're in this spot.