Markelle Fultz

[pepe1991]

We address all of our biggest weaknesses by upgrading at point guard. That's why we drafted Black.

Black will not be a positive player until the 2025/26 season. Let's please be realistic here.

I've already shared my opposing view. Your take that rookies suck is an over simplification and wrong.

But that's still true. Rookies almost always suck. Even vast majority of ROYs had negative impact on a team, they just averaged bunch of points on non playoff teams.

From Derrick Rose (2009) to prestent day, Ben Simmons was only ROY who played on playoff team.

And in general when you see who makes all nba rookie first teams, it's laughable how poorly that ages. It goes to show you that "best rookies" are by default just most used players on bad teams.

NBA all rookies first team- random names
2014-15: Mirotić, Noel , Elfrid Payton
2015-16 : Jahil Okafor
2016-17 : Hernagomez
2018-19: Marvin Bagley
2019-20: Eric Pascall, Nunn, Clarke
2020-21: Tate, Bey

Those players were all washed out of a league in several years despite being "top 5 rookies".


Best case for a rookie, in terms of helping you win, would be player like Keegan Murray. Player who stays in his line and doesn't try to highjack your offense.

[VFX]

Black will not be a positive player until the 2025/26 season. Let's please be realistic here.

I've already shared my opposing view. Your take that rookies suck is an over simplification and wrong.

But that's still true. Rookies almost always suck. Even vast majority of ROYs had negative impact on a team, they just averaged bunch of points on non playoff teams.

From Derrick Rose (2009) to prestent day, Ben Simmons was only ROY who played on playoff team.

And in general when you see who makes all nba rookie first teams, it's laughable how poorly that ages. It goes to show you that "best rookies" are by default just most used players on bad teams.

NBA all rookies first team- random names
2014-15: Mirotić, Noel , Elfrid Payton
2015-16 : Jahil Okafor
2016-17 : Hernagomez
2018-19: Marvin Bagley
2019-20: Eric Pascall, Nunn, Clarke
2020-21: Tate, Bey

Those players were all washed out of a league in several years despite being "top 5 rookies".


Best case for a rookie, in terms of helping you win, would be player like Keegan Murray. Player who stays in his line and doesn't try to highjack your offense.

I mean… yeah, you picked a bunch of names that happened to be busts when the majority of all nba rookie guys become something even role players.

I don’t disagree that the majority of rooks aren’t good comparatively. However, how do you know if you have the next Haliburton or not if he’s playing 10mpg behind broken Malcolm Brogdon and TJ MCConnell because they happen to be “better than rookies” in years one and two?

[CLosP]

Very funny to read that kelle can't shoot and can't get assists.
Do those people play nba2k instead of actually watch games?

I watched 90% of Magic games last season. Tell me more.

Im not incorrect in my assessment of him as a player and his skill set.

If you want to make the case he will improve greatly next season, then so be it. You don't have to lie to yourself.

If Fultz can't shoot, get to the line or pass out assists, how does he make it to the top 100 players in multiple unbiased NBA player assessments? I know the answer, you know everything and they know nothing.

This can’t be your reasoning that he’s not good at those things though right? Because of a poll or top 100 list? Come on man lol. Fultz still isn’t a good shooter and hasn’t shown he can get to the FT line. He’s a good midrange shooter which doesn’t help this team as we have no spacing at all. If he can extend to the 3pt line and be consistent, then that’s different. Our best players aren’t marksmen either so they need some spacing providing for them. Fultz doesn’t do that & even though Gary Harris slightly can, he’s certainly not the long term answer at SG.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

[Bensational]

Hot take: contract year motivation for Fultz and Cole is good for the team. I think we’re going to see some of their best play yet, and it will pay off in a higher than expected playoff seeding.

[VFX]

Hot take: contract year motivation for Fultz and Cole is good for the team. I think we’re going to see some of their best play yet, and it will pay off in a higher than expected playoff seeding.

We absolutely will.

[pepe1991]

I've already shared my opposing view. Your take that rookies suck is an over simplification and wrong.

But that's still true. Rookies almost always suck. Even vast majority of ROYs had negative impact on a team, they just averaged bunch of points on non playoff teams.

From Derrick Rose (2009) to prestent day, Ben Simmons was only ROY who played on playoff team.

And in general when you see who makes all nba rookie first teams, it's laughable how poorly that ages. It goes to show you that "best rookies" are by default just most used players on bad teams.

NBA all rookies first team- random names
2014-15: Mirotić, Noel , Elfrid Payton
2015-16 : Jahil Okafor
2016-17 : Hernagomez
2018-19: Marvin Bagley
2019-20: Eric Pascall, Nunn, Clarke
2020-21: Tate, Bey

Those players were all washed out of a league in several years despite being "top 5 rookies".


Best case for a rookie, in terms of helping you win, would be player like Keegan Murray. Player who stays in his line and doesn't try to highjack your offense.

I mean… yeah, you picked a bunch of names that happened to be busts when the majority of all nba rookie guys become something even role players.

I don’t disagree that the majority of rooks aren’t good comparatively. However, how do you know if you have the next Haliburton or not if he’s playing 10mpg behind broken Malcolm Brogdon and TJ MCConnell because they happen to be “better than rookies” in years one and two?

I mean… yeah, you picked a bunch of names that happened to be busts when the majority of all nba rookie guys become something even role players.

I picked 11 out of 30 names. That's 33% and every third player.

I exlcuded 2013 and 2017 classes because they were outliners ( one elite, other horrid).


Who gets high lottery teams? Bad teams , so they should probably play them because they are bad. Sure.
But if your objective goal is to make playoffs, you probably won't play rookie much.

Out of 16 playoff teams last year, was there any other team who had rookie even in rotation let alone starting but Kings? I can't recall.

. However, how do you know if you have the next Haliburton or not if he’s playing 10mpg behind broken Malcolm Brogdon and TJ MCConnell because they happen to be “better than rookies” in years one and two?

But most rookies don't perform like Haliburton, guy as a rookie in 5 games had 21 assist on 4 turnovers. He probably was elite at camp and outplayed his competition there as well. He wasn't even playing PG but SG

And we are already loaded with young players who need to prove somthing. Black and Howard are just latest additions.

On top of that you probably should try to make playoffs because Wagner and Banchero will be eligiable for massive exstensions, one after this, other after next year. And you probably want to see team's strenghts and weaknesses in playoff setting and make roser changes based on that.



At the end of a day somebody will be DNP CD guy anyway, you won't have 12 active rotation players.

[drsd]

Your take that rookies suck is an over simplification and wrong.

For one, I only think rookie PGs universally suck. Rookie bigs are often positive contributors. And rookie wings can have uses (Orlando started Lee in all the NBA finals games, for example).

Since Magic Johnson, name me three PGs that had a positive impact to their team as a rookie. I expect you might struggle to name one.
I'll do it for you: Derrick Rose.

Being an NBA PG is the hardest job in sports. A rookie might show flashes of promise, but the assist / TO numbers doom rookie PGs to always, always be negative players for team performance.

The reason to play a rookie PG big minutes is to get them aware of the speed of the game, and pile on losses for lotto balls. The problem for Black is that Orlando is not horrible (and is not trying to lose games).

Fultz, Anthony, and Suggs are all better PG options for the 2023/24 season over Black. That is not a disputable point.

Will Black be All-World from 2025/26, I really hope so! (Heck: Rose was MVP in his third season; let's aim for that bar for Black; OK?).

[drsd]

Hot take: contract year motivation for Fultz and Cole is good for the team. I think we’re going to see some of their best play yet, and it will pay off in a higher than expected playoff seeding.

[drsd]

I don’t disagree that the majority of rooks aren’t good comparatively. However, how do you know if you have the next Haliburton or not if he’s playing 10mpg behind broken Malcolm Brogdon and TJ MCConnell because they happen to be “better than rookies” in years one and two?

We all agree that certain NBA rookies show flashes that reveal they will be a good player.

Banchero had a PER of 14.9, which means a shade more than half of the NBA players had a better season than him. Was Banchero only a top-200 player? Of course not.

I look at a guy like LaMelo Ball. He will be a multi-year stud-PG in the NBA (if healthy). But he was not a positive player his rookie year. And NOBODY expects Black to have a rookie year as Ball's.

[VFX]

But that's still true. Rookies almost always suck. Even vast majority of ROYs had negative impact on a team, they just averaged bunch of points on non playoff teams.

From Derrick Rose (2009) to prestent day, Ben Simmons was only ROY who played on playoff team.

And in general when you see who makes all nba rookie first teams, it's laughable how poorly that ages. It goes to show you that "best rookies" are by default just most used players on bad teams.

NBA all rookies first team- random names
2014-15: Mirotić, Noel , Elfrid Payton
2015-16 : Jahil Okafor
2016-17 : Hernagomez
2018-19: Marvin Bagley
2019-20: Eric Pascall, Nunn, Clarke
2020-21: Tate, Bey

Those players were all washed out of a league in several years despite being "top 5 rookies".


Best case for a rookie, in terms of helping you win, would be player like Keegan Murray. Player who stays in his line and doesn't try to highjack your offense.

I mean… yeah, you picked a bunch of names that happened to be busts when the majority of all nba rookie guys become something even role players.

I don’t disagree that the majority of rooks aren’t good comparatively. However, how do you know if you have the next Haliburton or not if he’s playing 10mpg behind broken Malcolm Brogdon and TJ MCConnell because they happen to be “better than rookies” in years one and two?

I mean… yeah, you picked a bunch of names that happened to be busts when the majority of all nba rookie guys become something even role players.

I picked 11 out of 30 names. That's 33% and every third player.

I exlcuded 2013 and 2017 classes because they were outliners ( one elite, other horrid).


Who gets high lottery teams? Bad teams , so they should probably play them because they are bad. Sure.
But if your objective goal is to make playoffs, you probably won't play rookie much.

Probably the most cherry picking **** I’ve seen you post - and that says a lot. You left out second teams to think you proved a point.

You get on average 6 players out of every all rookie first and second team. Sometimes you get 5 but most times you get 6-7 of guys in their first two seasons that become elite role players or better.

2014-15 :
Wiggins, Clarkson, Smart, Bojan, Lavine, Nurkic

2015-16 :
KAT, KP, Booker, Jokic, Russell, Turner

2016-17 :
Embiid, Brogdon, Hield, Murray, Brown, Ingram

2017-18 :
Kuzma, Lauri, Mitchell, Tatum, Bogdan, Collins, (left out Ball and Simmons)

2018-19 :
Luka, Trae, Ayton, JJJ, SGA, Sexton, Huerter

What is your point even? That you don’t think rookies become competent players compared to overpaid established ones that do less?

The point I’m making is that you have to see what you have instead of burying them in deep benches and pretending 10mpg is going to mean anything. You are just wasting draft picks at that point and trading away potential because you can’t find opportunity. This is why Orlando has the reputation of being a farm team for other more successful organizations.

Keeping it on Fultz

Fultz and Cole will play their asses off this upcoming season for obvious reasons. Fultz cut his hair and started the PR campaign already proving how “serious” he is about playing basketball this year. I expected nothing less.

Where this leaves AB who knows. Maybe Orlando will trade him for a second rounder in two seasons to LA so we can effectively overpay Fultz for a good season when his contract is coming up.

[pepe1991]

I mean… yeah, you picked a bunch of names that happened to be busts when the majority of all nba rookie guys become something even role players.

I don’t disagree that the majority of rooks aren’t good comparatively. However, how do you know if you have the next Haliburton or not if he’s playing 10mpg behind broken Malcolm Brogdon and TJ MCConnell because they happen to be “better than rookies” in years one and two?

I mean… yeah, you picked a bunch of names that happened to be busts when the majority of all nba rookie guys become something even role players.

I picked 11 out of 30 names. That's 33% and every third player.

I exlcuded 2013 and 2017 classes because they were outliners ( one elite, other horrid).


Who gets high lottery teams? Bad teams , so they should probably play them because they are bad. Sure.
But if your objective goal is to make playoffs, you probably won't play rookie much.

Probably the most cherry picking **** I’ve seen you post - and that says a lot. You left out second teams to think you proved a point.

You get on average 6 players out of every all rookie first and second team. Sometimes you get 5 but most times you get 6-7 of guys in their first two seasons that become elite role players or better.

2014-15 :
Wiggins, Clarkson, Smart, Bojan, Lavine, Nurkic

2015-16 :
KAT, KP, Booker, Jokic, Russell, Turner

2016-17 :
Embiid, Brogdon, Hield, Murray, Brown, Ingram

2017-18 :
Kuzma, Lauri, Mitchell, Tatum, Bogdan, Collins, (left out Ball and Simmons)

2018-19 :
Luka, Trae, Ayton, JJJ, SGA, Sexton, Huerter

What is your point even? That you don’t think rookies become competent players compared to overpaid established ones that do less?

The point I’m making is that you have to see what you have instead of burying them in deep benches and pretending 10mpg is going to mean anything. You are just wasting draft picks at that point and trading away potential because you can’t find opportunity. This is why Orlando has the reputation of being a farm team for other more successful organizations.

Keeping it on Fultz

Fultz and Cole will play their asses off this upcoming season for obvious reasons. Fultz cut his hair and started the PR campaign already proving how “serious” he is about playing basketball this year. I expected nothing less.

Where this leaves AB who knows. Maybe Orlando will trade him for a second rounder in two seasons to LA so we can effectively overpay Fultz for a good season when his contract is coming up.

Probably the most cherry picking **** I’ve seen you post - and that says a lot. You left out second teams to think you proved a point.

You want me to bring second all nba rookies? Fine . let's go through this epic names

2013-14: Olynyk , Dieng, Zeller
2014-15: Galloway
2015-16: Winslow, Mudiay, WSC
2016-17: Chriss, Yogi Farell
2017-18: Dennis Smith, Josh Jackson
2018-19: Sexton, Shemet
2019-20: Terrence Davis (who? ) , Hachimura, PJ Washington, Coby White
2020-21: Pat Will, Stewart, Okoro, Quickley
2021-22: Duerte, Hyland, Dosunmu

You get on average 6 players out of every all rookie first and second team. Sometimes you get 5 but most times you get 6-7 of guys in their first two seasons that become elite role players or better.

6 out of 60. And you have balls to call me on cherrypicking for picking 33% of players , but here you are, hanging onto yout 10%

What is your point even? That you don’t think rookies become competent players compared to overpaid established ones that do less?

That rookies are almost never competent players, compared to players with more experience. And you have to be in position to play for something, before you hand over Franz Wagner ( and Banchero) their $150M contracts . Starting rookie, by default, would mean you are throwing another season away . For what? More rookies next year?

The point I’m making is that you have to see what you have instead of burying them in deep benches and pretending 10mpg is going to mean anything. You are just wasting draft picks at that point and trading away potential because you can’t find opportunity. This is why Orlando has the reputation of being a farm team for other more successful organizations.

Maybe you look at this from wrong angle. I would argue Magic are "farm team" because that's execlly what they want to be.. By decision or accident. 99% of a league won't put up roster with 12 lottery picks in about same age trying to find enough min, usage, playing time and purpose . why? Because any sain person knows that's sucidal mission and path toward cheap- fire sale in a second when lockerroom implodes. And when it implodes ? In moment when players become instructed by their families and mengagers that their teammates stand in path of their millions.


I still don't understand why Magic simply didn't trade out of 2023 draft. Draft neither was all that good nor there was need for more young players. Especially drafting two "green" rookies who weren't all that great at college, rather two situational role players.


At the end of a day, probably 7-8 if not more of current Magic players, won't play for Magic in 2026.

From 2019- present day i wasted enough fingers on Fultz. That's their "starting point guard" . Okey . Hopefully not for long. But me being "anti Fultz" doesn't mean i will be "pro Black" given that he looks like taller version of same player.

[bigdogdylan5]

Hot take: contract year motivation for Fultz and Cole is good for the team. I think we’re going to see some of their best play yet, and it will pay off in a higher than expected playoff seeding.

Still yet to be seen if this a contract year for Fultz September 30 is the day he is eligible for an extension. Will be very telling what the front office does.

[bigdogdylan5]

Read on Twitter

I love the comments how his shot is so slow. **** he was left so wide open he could take as much time as he wants. He doesn’t have to be great he just needs players to respect him more then sagging 4-5 feet off him.

[pepe1991]

Read on Twitter

First clip wasn't even 3 point shot

And corner 3 is mid range from any other position but corner on court

[VFX]

I picked 11 out of 30 names. That's 33% and every third player.

I exlcuded 2013 and 2017 classes because they were outliners ( one elite, other horrid).


Who gets high lottery teams? Bad teams , so they should probably play them because they are bad. Sure.
But if your objective goal is to make playoffs, you probably won't play rookie much.

Probably the most cherry picking **** I’ve seen you post - and that says a lot. You left out second teams to think you proved a point.

You get on average 6 players out of every all rookie first and second team. Sometimes you get 5 but most times you get 6-7 of guys in their first two seasons that become elite role players or better.

2014-15 :
Wiggins, Clarkson, Smart, Bojan, Lavine, Nurkic

2015-16 :
KAT, KP, Booker, Jokic, Russell, Turner

2016-17 :
Embiid, Brogdon, Hield, Murray, Brown, Ingram

2017-18 :
Kuzma, Lauri, Mitchell, Tatum, Bogdan, Collins, (left out Ball and Simmons)

2018-19 :
Luka, Trae, Ayton, JJJ, SGA, Sexton, Huerter

What is your point even? That you don’t think rookies become competent players compared to overpaid established ones that do less?

The point I’m making is that you have to see what you have instead of burying them in deep benches and pretending 10mpg is going to mean anything. You are just wasting draft picks at that point and trading away potential because you can’t find opportunity. This is why Orlando has the reputation of being a farm team for other more successful organizations.

Keeping it on Fultz

Fultz and Cole will play their asses off this upcoming season for obvious reasons. Fultz cut his hair and started the PR campaign already proving how “serious” he is about playing basketball this year. I expected nothing less.

Where this leaves AB who knows. Maybe Orlando will trade him for a second rounder in two seasons to LA so we can effectively overpay Fultz for a good season when his contract is coming up.

Probably the most cherry picking **** I’ve seen you post - and that says a lot. You left out second teams to think you proved a point.

You want me to bring second all nba rookies? Fine . let's go through this epic names

2013-14: Olynyk , Dieng, Zeller
2014-15: Galloway
2015-16: Winslow, Mudiay, WSC
2016-17: Chriss, Yogi Farell
2017-18: Dennis Smith, Josh Jackson
2018-19: Sexton, Shemet
2019-20: Terrence Davis (who? ) , Hachimura, PJ Washington, Coby White
2020-21: Pat Will, Stewart, Okoro, Quickley
2021-22: Duerte, Hyland, Dosunmu

You get on average 6 players out of every all rookie first and second team. Sometimes you get 5 but most times you get 6-7 of guys in their first two seasons that become elite role players or better.

6 out of 60. And you have balls to call me on cherrypicking for picking 33% of players , but here you are, hanging onto yout 10%

What is your point even? That you don’t think rookies become competent players compared to overpaid established ones that do less?

That rookies are almost never competent players, compared to players with more experience. And you have to be in position to play for something, before you hand over Franz Wagner ( and Banchero) their $150M contracts . Starting rookie, by default, would mean you are throwing another season away . For what? More rookies next year?

The point I’m making is that you have to see what you have instead of burying them in deep benches and pretending 10mpg is going to mean anything. You are just wasting draft picks at that point and trading away potential because you can’t find opportunity. This is why Orlando has the reputation of being a farm team for other more successful organizations.

Maybe you look at this from wrong angle. I would argue Magic are "farm team" because that's execlly what they want to be.. By decision or accident. 99% of a league won't put up roster with 12 lottery picks in about same age trying to find enough min, usage, playing time and purpose . why? Because any sain person knows that's sucidal mission and path toward cheap- fire sale in a second when lockerroom implodes. And when it implodes ? In moment when players become instructed by their families and mengagers that their teammates stand in path of their millions.


I still don't understand why Magic simply didn't trade out of 2023 draft. Draft neither was all that good nor there was need for more young players. Especially drafting two "green" rookies who weren't all that great at college, rather two situational role players.


At the end of a day, probably 7-8 if not more of current Magic players, won't play for Magic in 2026.

From 2019- present day i wasted enough fingers on Fultz. That's their "starting point guard" . Okey . Hopefully not for long. But me being "anti Fultz" doesn't mean i will be "pro Black" given that he looks like taller version of same player.

You are missing the fact that nobody claims that all 60 guys per draft are going to be capable starters immediately or ever…

And no, it’s not unreasonable to believe 6/10 of the top lottery picks in a group of 14+ happen to become role players or better. That’s not even assuming that anyone outside of that group surprises people. You still don’t understand that everyone is drafted if they aren’t coming from overseas randomly.

You are right that a team of rookies isn’t viable for competing for championships. No ****. Nobody anywhere was advocating for that. Orlando needs to make decisions on some of these guys. However, you do not find the next Haliburton, Jokic, Tatum, etc unless you are drafting them to Orlando. Nothing else matters when you are talking about drafting or guys on rookie scale deals.

You have no idea what kind of player Black will be 2-3 seasons from now, nor will you really know if he’s playing limited minutes against nobodies.

Throw in some more laughing emojis I need to take you more seriously.

[AaronB]

Your take that rookies suck is an over simplification and wrong.

For one, I only think rookie PGs universally suck. Rookie bigs are often positive contributors. And rookie wings can have uses (Orlando started Lee in all the NBA finals games, for example).

Since Magic Johnson, name me three PGs that had a positive impact to their team as a rookie. I expect you might struggle to name one.
I'll do it for you: Derrick Rose.

Being an NBA PG is the hardest job in sports. A rookie might show flashes of promise, but the assist / TO numbers doom rookie PGs to always, always be negative players for team performance.

The reason to play a rookie PG big minutes is to get them aware of the speed of the game, and pile on losses for lotto balls. The problem for Black is that Orlando is not horrible (and is not trying to lose games).

Fultz, Anthony, and Suggs are all better PG options for the 2023/24 season over Black. That is not a disputable point.

Will Black be All-World from 2025/26, I really hope so! (Heck: Rose was MVP in his third season; let's aim for that bar for Black; OK?).

I agree that the inhouse PGs are better than the rookies, but only because I am bullish on all of the Magic veteran PGs.

However, 3 of the last 5 RoY's have been PGs. Doncic, Morant and Ball.

[VFX]

Hot take: contract year motivation for Fultz and Cole is good for the team. I think we’re going to see some of their best play yet, and it will pay off in a higher than expected playoff seeding.

Still yet to be seen if this a contract year for Fultz September 30 is the day he is eligible for an extension. Will be very telling what the front office does.

What does this mean?

Are you insinuating that the FO is going to let Fultz walk out the door for little to zero return?

There is a zero percent chance he isn’t resigned - it’s just for how much.

[SHAQ32]

Hot take: contract year motivation for Fultz and Cole is good for the team. I think we’re going to see some of their best play yet, and it will pay off in a higher than expected playoff seeding.

With this in mind, should we look to scale back Paolo's playmaking responsibilities at all?

[bigdogdylan5]

Hot take: contract year motivation for Fultz and Cole is good for the team. I think we’re going to see some of their best play yet, and it will pay off in a higher than expected playoff seeding.

Still yet to be seen if this a contract year for Fultz September 30 is the day he is eligible for an extension. Will be very telling what the front office does.

What does this mean?

Are you insinuating that the FO is going to let Fultz walk out the door for little to zero return?

There is a zero percent chance he isn’t resigned - it’s just for how much.

You never miss a Fultz post do you? My point is they might have an extension worked out but he is not able to sign it till September 30. So we don’t know for sure if he will be UFA after this season. The FO decision to extend him or not will tell us a lot.