Shams: Lillard to Milwaukee in three team deal

[GooniesNeverDie]

Cronin is scummy. He had no intention of building a team around Dame and wanted a cushy rebuilding job with no pressure. Not only that but I believe he dragged the Raptors through the mud with bs about Masai demanding too much in order to back his bs about trying to build a winning team.

Loser energy and I pray on Portland’s downfall


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[ForeverTFC]

Cronin is scummy. He had no intention of building a team around Dame and wanted a cushy rebuilding job with no pressure. Not only that but I believe he dragged the Raptors through the mud with bs about Masai demanding too much in order to back his bs about trying to build a winning team.

Loser energy and I pray on Portland’s downfall


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I’m very much convinced it was them that was leaking the whole OG is unhappy stuff. I hate that FO.

[Mikistan]

Cronin is scummy. He had no intention of building a team around Dame and wanted a cushy rebuilding job with no pressure. Not only that but I believe he dragged the Raptors through the mud with bs about Masai demanding too much in order to back his bs about trying to build a winning team.

Loser energy and I pray on Portland’s downfall


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I’m very much convinced it was them that was leaking the whole OG is unhappy stuff. I hate that FO.

Bingo.jpg

[2019nbachamps]

Seems like Dame’s agent is the source of the leak to Shams he wouldn’t report to Toronto. Masai pursued the trade anyway.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Now you see why Goodwin was sucking up to the Heat ownership, because he absolutely screwed this up

He works on a fix with Pat Riley. Riley holds his ground because the fix worked. Masai comes in. Goodwin works only against Masai. Then he creates a secondary market for Dame because Portland doesn't like the fix, but he doesn't tell Miami that Milwaukee is in. They never improve their offer. Dame goes to Milwaukee for peanuts.

[Fairview4Life]

Now you see why Goodwin was sucking up to the Heat ownership, because he absolutely screwed this up :lol:

He works on a fix with Pat Riley. Riley holds his ground because the fix worked. Masai comes in. Goodwin works only against Masai. Then he creates a secondary market for Dame because Portland doesn't like the fix, but he doesn't tell Miami that Milwaukee is in. They never improve their offer. Dame goes to Milwaukee for peanuts.

I don’t understand why Portland wouldn’t have told Miami that Milwaukee was in, in your scenario. How do they not go back to other teams and say the price of the brick has gone up? Unless they thought it was close enough that sending Dame to Milwaukee and not Miami was good enough of a screw you to make up for any value difference.

[Ackshun]

Ha good

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This just confirms everything I've been saying about Portland the last year or so.

They never wanted to build around Dame and were looking for any reason to get rid of Dame without looking like the bad guys to their fanbase.

Yeah 100% this. I believe it was Zach Lowe that called it right after the season ended ..that Cronin was hoping Dame would eventually make the trade demand. Well it happened a few days after the draft if I’m not mistaken.

[Pointgod]

This just confirms everything I've been saying about Portland the last year or so.

They never wanted to build around Dame and were looking for any reason to get rid of Dame without looking like the bad guys to their fanbase.

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It's why I can't ever get mad at players not being loyal to their teams. These teams will backstab you in a heart beat.

Portland really told Dame to sit out games just to go draft his successor. It's a cold cold world out here

It’s amazing how fans have been fed propaganda to turn on players when it’s a very well known process that teams tell players to resign and they’ll trade them later if they want out.

It’s better for the team because you can’t get a return on nothing if you let a player walk in free agency and it’s hard to justify raising ticket prices if Dame Lillard ain’t on your roster.

We saw in real-time Cronin told Dame they’d build around him and now we see the organization told him to sit so they could get a better pick which they didn’t do anything with. Jrue comes out and says that he wants to remain a Buck and gets traded the next day. If organizations are all business then I don’t fault players for being all business too.

[Kingsway_fan]

Seems like Dame’s agent is the source of the leak to Shams he wouldn’t report to Toronto. Masai pursued the trade anyway.

Clueless fans blame Masai for everything while ignoring one basic fact:

African born American stars DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN CANADA.

Which is why drafting talent, or trading for euros / Africans is the way to go for Toronto.

and MASAI is perfect for the franchise.... let that sink in.

[Fairview4Life]

African born American stars DO NOT WANT TO PLAY IN CANADA.

tf is an African born American star? Joel Embiid?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Now you see why Goodwin was sucking up to the Heat ownership, because he absolutely screwed this up

He works on a fix with Pat Riley. Riley holds his ground because the fix worked. Masai comes in. Goodwin works only against Masai. Then he creates a secondary market for Dame because Portland doesn't like the fix, but he doesn't tell Miami that Milwaukee is in. They never improve their offer. Dame goes to Milwaukee for peanuts.

I don’t understand why Portland wouldn’t have told Miami that Milwaukee was in, in your scenario. How do they not go back to other teams and say the price of the brick has gone up? Unless they thought it was close enough that sending Dame to Milwaukee and not Miami was good enough of a screw you to make up for any value difference.

I can't remember who reported it, but basically it was said that Portland agreed not to publicize Milwaukee's offer out of respect for Jrue. In this case it may have scuttled the deal entirely. Also because Miami was obviously leaking everything and using the media to attack other bids.

For me I think Dame's agent has to tell Miami the bid must go up. It's not just Masai involved. Miami was holding firm right until the end through the media, and now you see their local guys act all puzzled and bothered. They thought they had the best offer and could have offered more. No, they didn't have to give everything to get Dame, they just had to mildly improve their offer at least one time.

In the end, we get some guys saying "there's no way Masai was going to up his offer" to "Miami would have, but wasn't given the chance or thought they were going to have to give up everything."

[ATLTimekeeper]

Yeah 100% this. I believe it was Zach Lowe that called it right after the season ended ..that Cronin was hoping Dame would eventually make the trade demand. Well it happened a few days after the draft if I’m not mistaken.

Could have had Siakam at the draft. Dame only wanted to play with Mikhail Bridges or Bam, and neither of those players were made available for #3. Yes, Dame was pushed but he was ready to jump. There's just no way he can deftly move off his "loyalty" brand without turning it all on management.

Like, do people not accept that good players are told to rest all the time so teams can tank? OKC made Shai sit out like half a year in his early 20s. Even Curry was parked for almost a full season.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Am I the only one who read that B/R article and thought Cronin came out the most reasonable person in that group?
I can't blame him for not engaging Miami after Riley and Goodwin/Lillard clearly colluded and tried to box in Cronin to accepting a crappy deal. I wouldn't deal with somebody engaging in bad faith negotations.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Now you see why Goodwin was sucking up to the Heat ownership, because he absolutely screwed this up

He works on a fix with Pat Riley. Riley holds his ground because the fix worked. Masai comes in. Goodwin works only against Masai. Then he creates a secondary market for Dame because Portland doesn't like the fix, but he doesn't tell Miami that Milwaukee is in. They never improve their offer. Dame goes to Milwaukee for peanuts.

I don’t understand why Portland wouldn’t have told Miami that Milwaukee was in, in your scenario. How do they not go back to other teams and say the price of the brick has gone up? Unless they thought it was close enough that sending Dame to Milwaukee and not Miami was good enough of a screw you to make up for any value difference.

idk if herro plus picks plus middling prospects is better than what the bucks ended up getting. ayton is better than all those guys and a jrue trade should fetch at least one frp;

[sidsid]

Now you see why Goodwin was sucking up to the Heat ownership, because he absolutely screwed this up

He works on a fix with Pat Riley. Riley holds his ground because the fix worked. Masai comes in. Goodwin works only against Masai. Then he creates a secondary market for Dame because Portland doesn't like the fix, but he doesn't tell Miami that Milwaukee is in. They never improve their offer. Dame goes to Milwaukee for peanuts.

I don’t understand why Portland wouldn’t have told Miami that Milwaukee was in, in your scenario. How do they not go back to other teams and say the price of the brick has gone up? Unless they thought it was close enough that sending Dame to Milwaukee and not Miami was good enough of a screw you to make up for any value difference.

I can't remember who reported it, but basically it was said that Portland agreed not to publicize Milwaukee's offer out of respect for Jrue. In this case it may have scuttled the deal entirely. Also because Miami was obviously leaking everything and using the media to attack other bids.

For me I think Dame's agent has to tell Miami the bid must go up. It's not just Masai involved. Miami was holding firm right until the end through the media, and now you see their local guys act all puzzled and bothered. They thought they had the best offer and could have offered more. No, they didn't have to give everything to get Dame, they just had to mildly improve their offer at least one time.

In the end, we get some guys saying "there's no way Masai was going to up his offer" to "Miami would have, but wasn't given the chance or thought they were going to have to give up everything."

What made these offers fairly equivalent is the lack of blue chip young talent (and why OG didn't need to be in them). Without that, haggling over an extra first or some role player isn't breaking a deal if you're motivated against a specific offer.

Jrue/Trent/Herro are only there to generate pick assets. You can easily talk yourself into believing the Bucks far off picks will be far more valuable than the Heat's. There's your core value, and you can walk away happy.

[WaltFrazier]

Cronin is scummy. He had no intention of building a team around Dame and wanted a cushy rebuilding job with no pressure. Not only that but I believe he dragged the Raptors through the mud with bs about Masai demanding too much in order to back his bs about trying to build a winning team.

Loser energy and I pray on Portland’s downfall


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I’m very much convinced it was them that was leaking the whole OG is unhappy stuff. I hate that FO.

With Jake Fischer's help, yes. It was never true

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don’t understand why Portland wouldn’t have told Miami that Milwaukee was in, in your scenario. How do they not go back to other teams and say the price of the brick has gone up? Unless they thought it was close enough that sending Dame to Milwaukee and not Miami was good enough of a screw you to make up for any value difference.

I can't remember who reported it, but basically it was said that Portland agreed not to publicize Milwaukee's offer out of respect for Jrue. In this case it may have scuttled the deal entirely. Also because Miami was obviously leaking everything and using the media to attack other bids.

For me I think Dame's agent has to tell Miami the bid must go up. It's not just Masai involved. Miami was holding firm right until the end through the media, and now you see their local guys act all puzzled and bothered. They thought they had the best offer and could have offered more. No, they didn't have to give everything to get Dame, they just had to mildly improve their offer at least one time.

In the end, we get some guys saying "there's no way Masai was going to up his offer" to "Miami would have, but wasn't given the chance or thought they were going to have to give up everything."

What made these offers fairly equivalent is the lack of blue chip young talent (and why OG didn't need to be in them). Without that, haggling over an extra first or some role player isn't breaking a deal if you're motivated against a specific offer.

Jrue/Trent/Herro are only there to generate pick assets. You can easily talk yourself into believing the Bucks far off picks will be far more valuable than the Heat's. There's your core value, and you can walk away happy.

The final offers were roughly equivalent, but Miami's available cache could have toppled anything Milwaukee could have come up with. They could add prospects (Jovic, Jacques) and picks and they included FRPs, not just swaps. Swaps are potentially high value, but also can end up as nothing at all. They can't be re-packaged.

Cronin was trying to bait Masai and Riley, and both thought they were negotiating against each other. In the end, Dame's agent should have convinced Riley to pitch in, either by hinting that there were other bids beyond Toronto, or just explicitly stating it.

[WaltFrazier]

It's discouraging to learn that some of these media types work on behalf of some franchises and work against other franchises. IE they do the bidding of some front offices (and/or agents) and undermine others. And knowing we will always be on the losing side of these propaganda wars.

Interesting some here saying Dame's agent did a bad job. Dame ended up in a better basketball situation than Miami would have been. Maybe Dame's Miami only stance was a subterfuge too.

[sidsid]

I can't remember who reported it, but basically it was said that Portland agreed not to publicize Milwaukee's offer out of respect for Jrue. In this case it may have scuttled the deal entirely. Also because Miami was obviously leaking everything and using the media to attack other bids.

For me I think Dame's agent has to tell Miami the bid must go up. It's not just Masai involved. Miami was holding firm right until the end through the media, and now you see their local guys act all puzzled and bothered. They thought they had the best offer and could have offered more. No, they didn't have to give everything to get Dame, they just had to mildly improve their offer at least one time.

In the end, we get some guys saying "there's no way Masai was going to up his offer" to "Miami would have, but wasn't given the chance or thought they were going to have to give up everything."

What made these offers fairly equivalent is the lack of blue chip young talent (and why OG didn't need to be in them). Without that, haggling over an extra first or some role player isn't breaking a deal if you're motivated against a specific offer.

Jrue/Trent/Herro are only there to generate pick assets. You can easily talk yourself into believing the Bucks far off picks will be far more valuable than the Heat's. There's your core value, and you can walk away happy.

The final offers were roughly equivalent, but Miami's available cache could have toppled anything Milwaukee could have come up with. They could add prospects (Jovic, Jacques) and picks and they included FRPs, not just swaps. Swaps are potentially high value, but also can end up as nothing at all. They can't be re-packaged.

Cronin was trying to bait Masai and Riley, and both thought they were negotiating against each other. In the end, Dame's agent should have convinced Riley to pitch in, either by hinting that there were other bids beyond Toronto, or just explicitly stating it.

Spooking the Bucks and not leaving yourself an out can also be a way to lose your job as an agent. Anyway, this is mostly on the Heat, who basically have no window left and should have jumped on this more forcefully.

And this will always be the issue with trades. You can math out what you believe is a much better offer, but only the trading team matters.

[docholliday99]

Now you see why Goodwin was sucking up to the Heat ownership, because he absolutely screwed this up

He works on a fix with Pat Riley. Riley holds his ground because the fix worked. Masai comes in. Goodwin works only against Masai. Then he creates a secondary market for Dame because Portland doesn't like the fix, but he doesn't tell Miami that Milwaukee is in. They never improve their offer. Dame goes to Milwaukee for peanuts.

I don’t understand why Portland wouldn’t have told Miami that Milwaukee was in, in your scenario. How do they not go back to other teams and say the price of the brick has gone up? Unless they thought it was close enough that sending Dame to Milwaukee and not Miami was good enough of a screw you to make up for any value difference.

idk if herro plus picks plus middling prospects is better than what the bucks ended up getting. ayton is better than all those guys and a jrue trade should fetch at least one frp;

Well, Ayton would have been had in any trade scenario, he was attained with throw-in players which says a lot for his value in the league - I think if the Suns could get more, they would have moved DA long ago. He's really overpaid for what he brings, Poeltl has a stronger impact than DA and makes 60% of his salary.

I think Herro could have easily fetched a frp and player, that Heat deal in the end, would have netted PDX Ayton, Jovic, 3frps, a couple of srps and multiple swaps. 2 of those frps and swaps would have been at the same time period as the Bucks.

I wonder how this would have shook down if both Dame and Lillard had kept their mouth shut and not acted like it was a done deal