Shams: Lillard to Milwaukee in three team deal

[docholliday99]

This argument is lazy.

POR hasn’t landed a quality FA since Brian Grant in 98.

POR has to draft or trade for talent just like TOR.

Not rolling over for superstars and darling franchises was exactly the right thing to do.

You just repeated what I said..who's having a lazy argument now? lol You just don't like I blame the Blazer's FO more than the Heat or Lillard, personally, I think the PDX FO should have waited and let it go into the camp - time was on their side.

That’s not true.

This public trade demand was very out of character for Lillard. Something set that off, likely something the FO. I heard rumors, can’t vouch for accuracy.

Lillard has been with the team since my high school graduate son was 7. Cronin has only been here a few years.

Letting this hang over camp would have been a bad idea, unless there was no deal available.

Much better to sell the fans on youth and the hope of a better team someday than have the awkward scenario of the young guys alongside a guy with a foot obviously out the door.

We'll disagree here but that's ok, I'm not in PDX and not invested as you are, really just an outsider looking in, so it's easy for me to say that I wouldn't have brought him back for camp. 30 days till the start of the regular season, there was time and really, all the cards were in Portland's hand; the team was going no where anyways.

From all I read, you wanted this over with probably more than anyone, I haven't read your response, besides being happy it's over, are you happy with the return so far?

[ForeverTFC]

This argument is lazy.

POR hasn’t landed a quality FA since Brian Grant in 98.

POR has to draft or trade for talent just like TOR.

Not rolling over for superstars and darling franchises was exactly the right thing to do.

You just repeated what I said..who's having a lazy argument now? lol You just don't like I blame the Blazer's FO more than the Heat or Lillard, personally, I think the PDX FO should have waited and let it go into the camp - time was on their side.

That’s not true.

This public trade demand was very out of character for Lillard. Something set that off, likely something the FO. I heard rumors, can’t vouch for accuracy.

Lillard has been with the team since my high school graduate son was 7. Cronin has only been here a few years.

Letting this hang over camp would have been a bad idea, unless there was no deal available.

Much better to sell the fans on youth and the hope of a better team someday than have the awkward scenario of the young guys alongside a guy with a foot obviously out the door.

You've really changed your tune here man. What happened to we can wait as long as it takes and we won't take a discount?

[JRoy]

You just repeated what I said..who's having a lazy argument now? lol You just don't like I blame the Blazer's FO more than the Heat or Lillard, personally, I think the PDX FO should have waited and let it go into the camp - time was on their side.

That’s not true.

This public trade demand was very out of character for Lillard. Something set that off, likely something the FO. I heard rumors, can’t vouch for accuracy.

Lillard has been with the team since my high school graduate son was 7. Cronin has only been here a few years.

Letting this hang over camp would have been a bad idea, unless there was no deal available.

Much better to sell the fans on youth and the hope of a better team someday than have the awkward scenario of the young guys alongside a guy with a foot obviously out the door.

We'll disagree here but that's ok, I'm not in PDX and not invested as you are, really just an outsider looking in, so it's easy for me to say that I wouldn't have brought him back for camp. 30 days till the start of the regular season, there was time and really, all the cards were in Portland's hand; the team was going no where anyways.

From all I read, you wanted this over with probably more than anyone, I haven't read your response, besides being happy it's over, are you happy with the return so far?

Too soon to tell.

Apparently Jrue will be moved soon and who knows what that return will look like.

I’m not a Scoot fan, I’m not an Ayton fan but I have to lay aside my reservations and give them the chance to prove me wrong.

Looking forward to Sharpe in a bigger role.


Glad it is almost over. Ready for something besides swatting down bad trade ideas.

[Los_29]

Happy its all over. Woulda been nice to get Dame if we got him on the cheap.

Time to get this organization back on track this season. Lotta pressure on Darko to not only win 42-48 but to develop

I'd prefer he won 22-28 and we got a top-5 pick. As much as I want to see Pop win a title with Wemby, I'd rather keep our pick.

I hate losing and I'd hate to lose like that again. Even 2020-21 was miserable. Rap had a slightly losing record when FvV played and though a small sample, had a winning record without him.

With the talent on this team, minus the self serving play of FvV, and hopefully minus the lock room split, I can see the team closer to 50 wins than bottom 40.

This team is worse without Fred. Our “winning record” without him came against teams like Detroit (2x), San Antonio, Indiana, Atlanta, NOP and a Phoenix team without Booker.

[Potential]

Let's be real here. Losing Fred has the potential to take away at least 15 wins. But I doubt that will be the case

[JB7]

That’s not true.

This public trade demand was very out of character for Lillard. Something set that off, likely something the FO. I heard rumors, can’t vouch for accuracy.

Lillard has been with the team since my high school graduate son was 7. Cronin has only been here a few years.

Letting this hang over camp would have been a bad idea, unless there was no deal available.

Much better to sell the fans on youth and the hope of a better team someday than have the awkward scenario of the young guys alongside a guy with a foot obviously out the door.

We'll disagree here but that's ok, I'm not in PDX and not invested as you are, really just an outsider looking in, so it's easy for me to say that I wouldn't have brought him back for camp. 30 days till the start of the regular season, there was time and really, all the cards were in Portland's hand; the team was going no where anyways.

From all I read, you wanted this over with probably more than anyone, I haven't read your response, besides being happy it's over, are you happy with the return so far?

Too soon to tell.

Apparently Jrue will be moved soon and who knows what that return will look like.

I’m not a Scoot fan, I’m not an Ayton fan but I have to lay aside my reservations and give them the chance to prove me wrong.

Looking forward to Sharpe in a bigger role.


Glad it is almost over. Ready for something besides swatting down bad trade ideas.

Transition to dissecting horrible trades now?

Honestly, the only conclusion I can come up with on this deal for the Blazers is they were ‘gifted’ the 3rd pick in the draft and Scoot by the NBA, so that they could gift Dame to the Bucks.

A Dame & Giannis pairing is great for the league for the next year or two.

[JRoy]

We'll disagree here but that's ok, I'm not in PDX and not invested as you are, really just an outsider looking in, so it's easy for me to say that I wouldn't have brought him back for camp. 30 days till the start of the regular season, there was time and really, all the cards were in Portland's hand; the team was going no where anyways.

From all I read, you wanted this over with probably more than anyone, I haven't read your response, besides being happy it's over, are you happy with the return so far?

Too soon to tell.

Apparently Jrue will be moved soon and who knows what that return will look like.

I’m not a Scoot fan, I’m not an Ayton fan but I have to lay aside my reservations and give them the chance to prove me wrong.

Looking forward to Sharpe in a bigger role.


Glad it is almost over. Ready for something besides swatting down bad trade ideas.

Transition to dissecting horrible trades now?

Honestly, the only conclusion I can come up with on this deal for the Blazers is they were ‘gifted’ the 3rd pick in the draft and Scoot by the NBA, so that they could gift Dame to the Bucks.

A Dame & Giannis pairing is great for the league for the next year or two.

A contrarian’s work is never done.

[Los_29]

I actually like the haul for Portland assuming they can get back a good return for Jrue.

Portland rolling with Ayton at the center position is such a Portland thing to do though.

[Tha Cynic]

We'll disagree here but that's ok, I'm not in PDX and not invested as you are, really just an outsider looking in, so it's easy for me to say that I wouldn't have brought him back for camp. 30 days till the start of the regular season, there was time and really, all the cards were in Portland's hand; the team was going no where anyways.

From all I read, you wanted this over with probably more than anyone, I haven't read your response, besides being happy it's over, are you happy with the return so far?

Too soon to tell.

Apparently Jrue will be moved soon and who knows what that return will look like.

I’m not a Scoot fan, I’m not an Ayton fan but I have to lay aside my reservations and give them the chance to prove me wrong.

Looking forward to Sharpe in a bigger role.


Glad it is almost over. Ready for something besides swatting down bad trade ideas.

Transition to dissecting horrible trades now?

Honestly, the only conclusion I can come up with on this deal for the Blazers is they were ‘gifted’ the 3rd pick in the draft and Scoot by the NBA, so that they could gift Dame to the Bucks.

A Dame & Giannis pairing is great for the league for the next year or two.

Yeah, based on everything JRoy has said he would have easily turned this trade down if we suggested it. He's most likely unhappy with the value but hoping things turn out well. When you turn down OG and end up with 33 year old Jrue Holiday instead in proposals, it's not something you're going to be happy with. The Blazers basically gave Dame away to Milwaukee though they may be in for a nice haul in 5 seasons..

[docholliday99]

I'd prefer he won 22-28 and we got a top-5 pick. As much as I want to see Pop win a title with Wemby, I'd rather keep our pick.

I hate losing and I'd hate to lose like that again. Even 2020-21 was miserable. Rap had a slightly losing record when FvV played and though a small sample, had a winning record without him.

With the talent on this team, minus the self serving play of FvV, and hopefully minus the lock room split, I can see the team closer to 50 wins than bottom 40.

This team is worse without Fred. Our “winning record” without him came against teams like Detroit (2x), San Antonio, Indiana, Atlanta, NOP and a Phoenix team without Booker.

Yes, we won against sub par teams without FvV BUT, we also lost against those same sub par teams with FvV at the helm.

Sometimes, when you remove a ball dominating, self serving interest of your floor general, other players will step up and have a chance to expand their games. Probably won't be pretty at the start but I'm looking forward to getting back to team ball.

I just don't subscribe to the doom and gloom from some, you know? I mean we lost Fred, not Ja or Doncic.

[docholliday99]

Too soon to tell.

Apparently Jrue will be moved soon and who knows what that return will look like.

I’m not a Scoot fan, I’m not an Ayton fan but I have to lay aside my reservations and give them the chance to prove me wrong.

Looking forward to Sharpe in a bigger role.


Glad it is almost over. Ready for something besides swatting down bad trade ideas.

Transition to dissecting horrible trades now?

Honestly, the only conclusion I can come up with on this deal for the Blazers is they were ‘gifted’ the 3rd pick in the draft and Scoot by the NBA, so that they could gift Dame to the Bucks.

A Dame & Giannis pairing is great for the league for the next year or two.

Yeah, based on everything JRoy has said he would have easily turned this trade down if we suggested it. He's most likely unhappy with the value but hoping things turn out well. When you turn down OG and end up with 33 year old Jrue Holiday instead in proposals, it's not something you're going to be happy with. The Blazers basically gave Dame away to Milwaukee though they may be in for a nice haul in 5 seasons..

To be fair, JRoy probably would have turned it down if he was the GM and I agree, he's probably hoping for the best for his team. I mean, you have Ayton as your center piece return and he's not one he was hoping for, so now you have to bank on those picks and what you get from Jrue. TBH, wish Jrue was younger, he'd fit in nicely here.

[mihaic]

So, shall we boo Lillard when we play Milwaukee?

[WuTang_CMB]

Milwaukee Bucks general manager Jon Horst steered his wife and two children on the drive home from a family wedding in Northern Wisconsin on Sunday, a three-hour ride amid the surround sound of a transcendent trade. Mia slept, the kids immersed themselves in tablets and a long call with Portland Trail Blazers GM Joe Cronin delivered Horst what he had been hoping to hear: A growing conviction that the Blazers' best deal for Damian Lillard belonged with the Bucks.

Horst dropped his family at home around 8 p.m. and drove directly to his office at the team's practice facility. He called a couple of his key front office deputies and asked them to meet him there. As the opening of training camp loomed, and two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo's future teetered, Horst and his staff would work through the next 2½ days to close out one of the biggest trades in a Bucks history that includes the arrival and departure of Oscar Robertson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.


After Cronin hung up with Horst on Sunday night, he called the Blazers' governor, Jody Allen. For the first time since Lillard made a formal trade demand on July 1, Cronin had a sense of a breakthrough, he told her. There's a trade to do -- and it's with the Milwaukee Bucks and Phoenix Suns.

Toronto used as a leverage play. POR leaked it to get more out of the Bucks.

[will]

Gonna miss JRoy in these Dame trade threads.

[WuTang_CMB]

Here's what made that delicate, though: If the deal fell apart, Horst didn't want another team to know how far along these Blazers-Bucks talks had gotten. The Suns knew they were getting Portland's Nurkic, Nassir Little and Keon Johnson in a three-team trade, but the Suns had to get one more asset to make this deal workable. In almost all cases, Cronin would've told Bartelstein that he was getting Milwaukee guard Grayson Allen, but Horst's insistences on secrecy made this different.

Cronin did tell Bartelstein the general salary and position of the mystery player, so the Suns were able to deduce down to two players who that might be -- Allen and Oklahoma City's Victor Oladipo, who is recovering from a serious leg injury. The Thunder are sometimes on the periphery of these big deals, so the Suns thought that was a possibility. Of course, the Thunder were nowhere near this trade.

Cronin kept telling Bartelstein: Just trust me. You're going to like the mystery player. Trust me


Around 2:15 p.m. ET on Wednesday, Cronin confirmed Bartelstein's suspicions and told him that, yes, they were getting Allen in the trade. After the Suns confirmed it was Allen, Bartelstein, Jones and Ishbia briefly huddled and returned a resounding yes to Cronin. Done, Bartelstein told him. And that was that. The three teams agreed on the trade, and immediately started calling the players and agents involved to inform them of the blockbuster.

[Scase]

Now you see why Goodwin was sucking up to the Heat ownership, because he absolutely screwed this up

He works on a fix with Pat Riley. Riley holds his ground because the fix worked. Masai comes in. Goodwin works only against Masai. Then he creates a secondary market for Dame because Portland doesn't like the fix, but he doesn't tell Miami that Milwaukee is in. They never improve their offer. Dame goes to Milwaukee for peanuts.

I don’t understand why Portland wouldn’t have told Miami that Milwaukee was in, in your scenario. How do they not go back to other teams and say the price of the brick has gone up? Unless they thought it was close enough that sending Dame to Milwaukee and not Miami was good enough of a screw you to make up for any value difference.

I can't see how what Miami was rumoured to be offering is better than what the Bucks gave them. The trade got them Ayton and out from Nurkic, and a handful of Bucks picks when the Bucks are most likely going to be bad. Vs Herro, which they realistically don't have use for, and some picks that are almost never bad because Miami usually has no problem attracting FAs.

If anything I would argue the Bucks trade worked out better for them. Plus they should easily be able to flip Jrue to a contender.

[MiamiSPX]

Here's what made that delicate, though: If the deal fell apart, Horst didn't want another team to know how far along these Blazers-Bucks talks had gotten. The Suns knew they were getting Portland's Nurkic, Nassir Little and Keon Johnson in a three-team trade, but the Suns had to get one more asset to make this deal workable. In almost all cases, Cronin would've told Bartelstein that he was getting Milwaukee guard Grayson Allen, but Horst's insistences on secrecy made this different.

Cronin did tell Bartelstein the general salary and position of the mystery player, so the Suns were able to deduce down to two players who that might be -- Allen and Oklahoma City's Victor Oladipo, who is recovering from a serious leg injury. The Thunder are sometimes on the periphery of these big deals, so the Suns thought that was a possibility. Of course, the Thunder were nowhere near this trade.

Cronin kept telling Bartelstein: Just trust me. You're going to like the mystery player. Trust me


Around 2:15 p.m. ET on Wednesday, Cronin confirmed Bartelstein's suspicions and told him that, yes, they were getting Allen in the trade. After the Suns confirmed it was Allen, Bartelstein, Jones and Ishbia briefly huddled and returned a resounding yes to Cronin. Done, Bartelstein told him. And that was that. The three teams agreed on the trade, and immediately started calling the players and agents involved to inform them of the blockbuster.

You're about to add $215M to the books on a player who may not love it there, and who will definitely ask out in a couple of years if your superstar leaves. Said superstar has been giving interviews for the last 2 months indicating he will do just that if the team doesn't show a commitment to winning. And you expect people to believe you didn't consult him? I totally get why Horst is lying about that but it's one of the more blatant ones I've ever heard in the NBA.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Lots of rumination going on here but at the end of the day Lillard wanting to go with Bucks and not to the Raptors played a big role in the final trade.
We shot our shot and it didn’t happen. Still happy knowing our FO is aggressive and looking to exploit opportunities when available.

[sidsid]

Too soon to tell.

Apparently Jrue will be moved soon and who knows what that return will look like.

I’m not a Scoot fan, I’m not an Ayton fan but I have to lay aside my reservations and give them the chance to prove me wrong.

Looking forward to Sharpe in a bigger role.


Glad it is almost over. Ready for something besides swatting down bad trade ideas.

Transition to dissecting horrible trades now?

Honestly, the only conclusion I can come up with on this deal for the Blazers is they were ‘gifted’ the 3rd pick in the draft and Scoot by the NBA, so that they could gift Dame to the Bucks.

A Dame & Giannis pairing is great for the league for the next year or two.

Yeah, based on everything JRoy has said he would have easily turned this trade down if we suggested it. He's most likely unhappy with the value but hoping things turn out well. When you turn down OG and end up with 33 year old Jrue Holiday instead in proposals, it's not something you're going to be happy with. The Blazers basically gave Dame away to Milwaukee though they may be in for a nice haul in 5 seasons..

You rarely get this much information about a player's market like we got for Dame. No gobsmacked Gobert surprises here.

- Heat or bust, weakening the market.
- The only young player attached to salary with supposed value was Herro, who the Blazers didn't even want.
- no leaks about teams wanting to jump in on the Herro sweepstakes, with Poole as your negative asset comp.
- no young blue chippers on the Heat

A guy on the couch could figure out this was a pure picks package with marginal add-ons. Listening to any US punditry is always a mistake, so running with the OG line never made sense with the info on hand. You pay your FO to meet the market and not overpay, as ours did.

I ran with the Trent/Grady package as the going assumption with the only hint that we'd hear about it through Spurs leaks about changing our pick protections (looks like we were adding Precious or other youth instead).

[ash_k]

throughout those trade rumors and the ones including Grady: I thought he could not be traded until December having signed his rookie contract. Have the rules changed?