Markelle Fultz

[pepe1991]

I think Magic need both: starting level PG and SG.

Even when you look at landscape of contenders, always at least 1 of guards is allstar caliber player.

Nuggets- Murray & KCP ( Murray plays like bonefied start in playoffs)
Celtics- Jrue & White - Jrue is allstar ( could easly count Brown as part time SG as well)
Warriors- no need to waste time
Bucks- superstar and allstar
Suns- Beal & Booker
Heat- Herro & Butler


It is what it is. You simply need elite ballhandler. Last nba champion without allstar level PG were Miami Heat decade ago.

Right now ,we have bunch of below average starters/okey bench players competing for PG-SG spots. Can somebody turn into more? Maybe. But there isn't much evidence of it so far.

[eyriq]

You say “timeframe of development” and point to their years experience in the league, but that’s not the case. The “timeframe for development” is the timeframe towards playing competitive basketball.

Franz are Paolo are advanced for their age, Suggs and Cole just seem to be entering the rise to their prime, while AB and Jett are still adapting to the pace of the game. Fultz, WCJ, Isaac, Moe, Harris, Ingles are all in various stages of their competitive primes, but Paolo, Franz, Suggs and Cole are now closer to that timeframe of development than they are to AB and Jett’s current trajectories. The reality is that AB and Jett are further away in development than the rest of the team.

That’s not a problem, that just means we currently have staggered levels of player readiness. As Paolo and Franz come into their own as franchise focal points over coming seasons, AB and Jett will come into their own as competitive players and be able to be introduced to higher roles without impeding momentum.

We gave Suggs all the minutes he could handle in his rookie year and it did little to give us an understanding of what we had with him beyond what his limitations were. He still needed another season to start to correct those after that. If AB and Jett were Paolo/Franz like phenoms they would be in bigger roles right now.

I’m talking more about contract dispersal relative to tenure…

Yes, all players develop at different rates.

Lol sure. Your post is quoted right there and you open with “this team has many timeframes of development” but never mention “contract dispersal relative to tenure” once. If you want to talk about cap space, then talk about cap space.

Yes, there is a difference in rookie scale contracts vs market rate contracts. Even then, Fultz and Cole have more in common in their timeframes as impending FAs who’ll both have different cap impacts next season.

The next stages of contractual changes will be:

2024 - Fultz, Harris, and Cole FAs, Ingles team option

2025 - Franz + Suggs up for extension, Isaac FA

2026 - Paolo up for extension, WCJ FA

2027 - AB + Jett up for extension

The summer of 2026 is when decisions will have to be made about balancing Paolo + Franz max extensions vs the rest of the team. Either by then we’ve loaded the team up with depth we can retain with bird rights and go over the cap, or we’ll be looking to make consolidation trades.

That’s a long on-ramp to sort out a lot of everyone’s concerns.

The contract timeline is interesting. Some really tough choices are coming. This team is going to get expensive, quick.

[IllMagic04]

Fultz is our starting PG and hes our best chance to win next season. I do think that his long term fit with Paolo is very questionable. However are we to believe that Black is the future PG? Cause the same issue exist. If it doesn't work with Fultz then it sure aint going to work with Black. Theres also an fit issue with Suggs if we really are being honest with ourselves. To unlock Paolo's playmaking upside we need shooting in our back court period. So its just kinda weird we scapegoat Fultz and dont talk about our current bricklaying SG thats gonna be playing next to him.

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app

To win what?

Basketball games

Sent from my SM-G970U using RealGM mobile app

[zaymon]

I think Magic need both: starting level PG and SG.

Even when you look at landscape of contenders, always at least 1 of guards is allstar caliber player.

Nuggets- Murray & KCP ( Murray plays like bonefied start in playoffs)
Celtics- Jrue & White - Jrue is allstar ( could easly count Brown as part time SG as well)
Warriors- no need to waste time
Bucks- superstar and allstar
Suns- Beal & Booker
Heat- Herro & Butler


It is what it is. You simply need elite ballhandler. Last nba champion without allstar level PG were Miami Heat decade ago.

Right now ,we have bunch of below average starters/okey bench players competing for PG-SG spots. Can somebody turn into more? Maybe. But there isn't much evidence of it so far.

We can be a little different becouse we have 2 ball handling forwards. We need shooting and defense.

[pepe1991]

I think Magic need both: starting level PG and SG.

Even when you look at landscape of contenders, always at least 1 of guards is allstar caliber player.

Nuggets- Murray & KCP ( Murray plays like bonefied start in playoffs)
Celtics- Jrue & White - Jrue is allstar ( could easly count Brown as part time SG as well)
Warriors- no need to waste time
Bucks- superstar and allstar
Suns- Beal & Booker
Heat- Herro & Butler


It is what it is. You simply need elite ballhandler. Last nba champion without allstar level PG were Miami Heat decade ago.

Right now ,we have bunch of below average starters/okey bench players competing for PG-SG spots. Can somebody turn into more? Maybe. But there isn't much evidence of it so far.

We can be a little different becouse we have 2 ball handling forwards. We need shooting and defense.

Lebron is 6'8 ballhandling forward, one of best to ever do it, yet he won 3 out of 4 rings with elite ballhandling guards along side him.

It's simply easier to have good offense when guard(s) is /are great.

I've been talking about that in past a lot. Only ultra uber mega elite guards suceed in nba. Because if you are 7 footer you really don't have to be that skilled. If you are 6'8, it requires little bit more skills but not as much.

But if you are some sub 6'5 person, litearlly your competition is made out of millions of players of your size.

To me it's without question what position requires most skill to play. It's ballhandler guard in nba.


Franz as ballhandler, to me, really doesn't do much. Last year we struggled a lot when we tried to initiate offense off him. We would lose 12-14 sec to even get into proper set. Franz is great player and will have great career, but not as ballhandler.

Banchero shot 41% FG off pick&rolls as ballhandler and his P&R was below 50th percentile. He will get better. But guy is skilled 6'10 person weighting 250 pounds. It simply makes more sense to play him as roller, not handler.

Banchero also has problem where he is very poor shooter off pullups, so if he is handler, teams will just go under screen. And he won't punish them. He shot 35% from pullups and 26% for 3. Again, this will get better, but not any time soon. In preseason he still was incapable of shooting from range with any accuracy (0-4 for 3 ) . World cup, shorter range, same problem. 2/6 for 3 over 7 games.

[zaymon]

I think Magic need both: starting level PG and SG.

Even when you look at landscape of contenders, always at least 1 of guards is allstar caliber player.

Nuggets- Murray & KCP ( Murray plays like bonefied start in playoffs)
Celtics- Jrue & White - Jrue is allstar ( could easly count Brown as part time SG as well)
Warriors- no need to waste time
Bucks- superstar and allstar
Suns- Beal & Booker
Heat- Herro & Butler


It is what it is. You simply need elite ballhandler. Last nba champion without allstar level PG were Miami Heat decade ago.

Right now ,we have bunch of below average starters/okey bench players competing for PG-SG spots. Can somebody turn into more? Maybe. But there isn't much evidence of it so far.

We can be a little different becouse we have 2 ball handling forwards. We need shooting and defense.

Lebron is 6'8 ballhandling forward, one of best to ever do it, yet he won 3 out of 4 rings with elite ballhandling guards along side him.

It's simply easier to have good offense when guard(s) is /are great.

I've been talking about that in past a lot. Only ultra uber mega elite guards suceed in nba. Because if you are 7 footer you really don't have to be that skilled. If you are 6'8, it requires little bit more skills but not as much.

But if you are some sub 6'5 person, litearlly your competition is made out of millions of players of your size.

To me it's without question what position requires most skill to play. It's ballhandler guard in nba.


Franz as ballhandler, to me, really doesn't do much. Last year we struggled a lot when we tried to initiate offense off him. We would lose 12-14 sec to even get into proper set. Franz is great player and will have great career, but not as ballhandler.

Banchero shot 41% FG off pick&rolls as ballhandler and his P&R was below 50th percentile. He will get better. But guy is skilled 6'10 person weighting 250 pounds. It simply makes more sense to play him as roller, not handler.

Banchero also has problem where he is very poor shooter off pullups, so if he is handler, teams will just go under screen. And he won't punish them. He shot 35% from pullups and 26% for 3. Again, this will get better, but not any time soon. In preseason he still was incapable of shooting from range with any accuracy (0-4 for 3 ) . World cup, shorter range, same problem. 2/6 for 3 over 7 games.

Franz Wagner was better p&r ball handler last year than Lebron James. I know Lebron is old and still it was just 58 percentile but Franz is really young and he had very limited spacing. Paolo was also average just below 50 percentile while being a rookie and without consistent 3 point shot.
They have talent to be similar to George/Kawhi as a combo and we know Clippers were dangerous even without all star guard.
Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.
Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.
I agree that our best outcome is to have allstar guard +Wagner/Banchero and then two 3&d but we will see how it goes. I dont think we NEED all star guard to contend.

[VFX]

We can be a little different becouse we have 2 ball handling forwards. We need shooting and defense.

Lebron is 6'8 ballhandling forward, one of best to ever do it, yet he won 3 out of 4 rings with elite ballhandling guards along side him.

It's simply easier to have good offense when guard(s) is /are great.

I've been talking about that in past a lot. Only ultra uber mega elite guards suceed in nba. Because if you are 7 footer you really don't have to be that skilled. If you are 6'8, it requires little bit more skills but not as much.

But if you are some sub 6'5 person, litearlly your competition is made out of millions of players of your size.

To me it's without question what position requires most skill to play. It's ballhandler guard in nba.


Franz as ballhandler, to me, really doesn't do much. Last year we struggled a lot when we tried to initiate offense off him. We would lose 12-14 sec to even get into proper set. Franz is great player and will have great career, but not as ballhandler.

Banchero shot 41% FG off pick&rolls as ballhandler and his P&R was below 50th percentile. He will get better. But guy is skilled 6'10 person weighting 250 pounds. It simply makes more sense to play him as roller, not handler.

Banchero also has problem where he is very poor shooter off pullups, so if he is handler, teams will just go under screen. And he won't punish them. He shot 35% from pullups and 26% for 3. Again, this will get better, but not any time soon. In preseason he still was incapable of shooting from range with any accuracy (0-4 for 3 ) . World cup, shorter range, same problem. 2/6 for 3 over 7 games.

Franz Wagner was better p&r ball handler last year than Lebron James. I know Lebron is old and still it was just 58 percentile but Franz is really young and he had very limited spacing. Paolo was also average just below 50 percentile while being a rookie and without consistent 3 point shot.
They have talent to be similar to George/Kawhi as a combo and we know Clippers were dangerous even without all star guard.
Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.
Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.
I agree that our best outcome is to have allstar guard +Wagner/Banchero and then two 3&d but we will see how it goes. I dont think we NEED all star guard to contend.

The better argument between both of these takes is that Orlando needs a low volume point guard that can be a pnr playmaker with Franz while also being reliable from 3 for that to actually work at high efficiency.

In other words, the complete opposite of Fultz while maintaining good defense.

Orlando doesn’t need another downhill playmaker that takes possessions away from Paolo/Franz at the expense of opening up the floor.

There isn’t really an argument against this other than “that player isn’t on the team right now” like those players don’t exist elsewhere.

[pepe1991]

We can be a little different becouse we have 2 ball handling forwards. We need shooting and defense.

Lebron is 6'8 ballhandling forward, one of best to ever do it, yet he won 3 out of 4 rings with elite ballhandling guards along side him.

It's simply easier to have good offense when guard(s) is /are great.

I've been talking about that in past a lot. Only ultra uber mega elite guards suceed in nba. Because if you are 7 footer you really don't have to be that skilled. If you are 6'8, it requires little bit more skills but not as much.

But if you are some sub 6'5 person, litearlly your competition is made out of millions of players of your size.

To me it's without question what position requires most skill to play. It's ballhandler guard in nba.


Franz as ballhandler, to me, really doesn't do much. Last year we struggled a lot when we tried to initiate offense off him. We would lose 12-14 sec to even get into proper set. Franz is great player and will have great career, but not as ballhandler.

Banchero shot 41% FG off pick&rolls as ballhandler and his P&R was below 50th percentile. He will get better. But guy is skilled 6'10 person weighting 250 pounds. It simply makes more sense to play him as roller, not handler.

Banchero also has problem where he is very poor shooter off pullups, so if he is handler, teams will just go under screen. And he won't punish them. He shot 35% from pullups and 26% for 3. Again, this will get better, but not any time soon. In preseason he still was incapable of shooting from range with any accuracy (0-4 for 3 ) . World cup, shorter range, same problem. 2/6 for 3 over 7 games.

Franz Wagner was better p&r ball handler last year than Lebron James. I know Lebron is old and still it was just 58 percentile but Franz is really young and he had very limited spacing. Paolo was also average just below 50 percentile while being a rookie and without consistent 3 point shot.
They have talent to be similar to George/Kawhi as a combo and we know Clippers were dangerous even without all star guard.
Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.
Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.
I agree that our best outcome is to have allstar guard +Wagner/Banchero and then two 3&d but we will see how it goes. I dont think we NEED all star guard to contend.

Well yea, you even said it yourself, Franz is very young, Lebron is oldest player in nba. Last year Lebron's P&R percentile was 72th.
When they won last ring, it was 84th.

Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.

Well, you will be suprised but Bledose was elite pick&roll player.
Matter of cat in in 2017-18, Bledsoe was the best pick&roll player, stat vise in nba. 99th percentile . When he arived on Bucks, from what i can see, his Pick&roll was never below 80-ish. People forget how good he was at his peak (well at least in regular season). Bulky, fast, shifty, with good dribble, he could easly break down defense and play through contact.

Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.

Butler just finished season with 5,4 ppg scored off pick&roll on 91 percentile. List of players better than him are: Conley, Durant, Kawhi, Curry, Irving, Mitchell, Lillard. That's it.

In playoffs it was obvious Miami doesn't have elite offensive creation (especially since Herro was hurt) so they focused on weak side isolation for Butler and some akwkward point -center Adebayo sets, but suplimented with just incredible 3 point accuracy.
That's pretty much polar opposite of what Magic can be. Magic in theory have some cration but can't rely on shooters.


I don't think we need both allstar PG and allstar SG, but i think we need top 15 PG and moderate volumen high accuray SG.

[Skybox]

Lebron is 6'8 ballhandling forward, one of best to ever do it, yet he won 3 out of 4 rings with elite ballhandling guards along side him.

It's simply easier to have good offense when guard(s) is /are great.

I've been talking about that in past a lot. Only ultra uber mega elite guards suceed in nba. Because if you are 7 footer you really don't have to be that skilled. If you are 6'8, it requires little bit more skills but not as much.

But if you are some sub 6'5 person, litearlly your competition is made out of millions of players of your size.

To me it's without question what position requires most skill to play. It's ballhandler guard in nba.


Franz as ballhandler, to me, really doesn't do much. Last year we struggled a lot when we tried to initiate offense off him. We would lose 12-14 sec to even get into proper set. Franz is great player and will have great career, but not as ballhandler.

Banchero shot 41% FG off pick&rolls as ballhandler and his P&R was below 50th percentile. He will get better. But guy is skilled 6'10 person weighting 250 pounds. It simply makes more sense to play him as roller, not handler.

Banchero also has problem where he is very poor shooter off pullups, so if he is handler, teams will just go under screen. And he won't punish them. He shot 35% from pullups and 26% for 3. Again, this will get better, but not any time soon. In preseason he still was incapable of shooting from range with any accuracy (0-4 for 3 ) . World cup, shorter range, same problem. 2/6 for 3 over 7 games.

Franz Wagner was better p&r ball handler last year than Lebron James. I know Lebron is old and still it was just 58 percentile but Franz is really young and he had very limited spacing. Paolo was also average just below 50 percentile while being a rookie and without consistent 3 point shot.
They have talent to be similar to George/Kawhi as a combo and we know Clippers were dangerous even without all star guard.
Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.
Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.
I agree that our best outcome is to have allstar guard +Wagner/Banchero and then two 3&d but we will see how it goes. I dont think we NEED all star guard to contend.

Well yea, you even said it yourself, Franz is very young, Lebron is oldest player in nba. Last year Lebron's P&R percentile was 72th.
When they won last ring, it was 84th.

Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.

Well, you will be suprised but Bledose was elite pick&roll player.
Matter of cat in in 2017-18, Bledsoe was the best pick&roll player, stat vise in nba. 99th percentile . When he arived on Bucks, from what i can see, his Pick&roll was never below 80-ish. People forget how good he was between 2013-2019.

Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.

Butler just finished season with 5,4 ppg scored off pick&roll on 91 percentile. List of players better than him are: Conley, Durant, Kawhi, Curry, Irving, Mitchell, Lillard. That's it.

In playoffs it was obvious Miami doesn't have elite offensive creation (especially since Herro was hurt) so they focused on weak side isolation for Butler and some akwkward point -center Adebayo sets, but suplimented with just incredible 3 point accuracy.
That's pretty much polar opposite of what Magic can be. Magic in theory have some cration but can't rely on shooters.


I don't think we need both allstar PG and allstar SG, but i think we need top 15 PG and moderate volumen high accuray SG.

I think, given our takes on Franz & Paolo, our best backcourt players would be like Jamal Murray in DEN…a PG in name only. A lights out shooter who can score in volume when needed, but isn’t necessarily doing all of the ball handling & distribution (but definitely a good share of it). Suggs, with continued shooting improvement would be a great partner for that guy and his defensive expertise even allows for a little leeway in settling on the lead guard…obvious young candidates (to me) are Simons & Herro, and if we’re thinking bigger,perhaps even Donovan Mitchell (if committed to ORL). We’d have three guys taking turns leading the team in scoring, all +/- 20 ppg, all very complementary in their offensive skill sets.

[ibraheim718]

Look at the teams this dude is comparing the Magic to. Is this even real life? This is a team of twenty year olds who are ALL green.

This guy can't be for real.

You know who Holiday was before he's the guy you are talking about now? He was Jalen Suggs. A young player with talent trying to find his way in the NBA.

Jamal Murray averaged 10ppg and shot 33% from 3 his rookie year.

Don't get your panties in such a ruffle. It is way too early to start souring on any of these guys.

[pepe1991]

Why Knicks fan cares about Magic?
Hypotetical conversations ,fits, what perfect fit would be. I know you can't grasp any of it. I mean, after all you said stats "bother you".

[zaymon]

I think we can agree that we wont contend until at least one of Wagner/Banchero reaches George/Butler/Tatum level. Guards can be better or worse but need to shoot. Celtics traded Smart even after he got dpoy, Bucks traded Bledsoe despite his p&r game.

[pepe1991]

Franz Wagner was better p&r ball handler last year than Lebron James. I know Lebron is old and still it was just 58 percentile but Franz is really young and he had very limited spacing. Paolo was also average just below 50 percentile while being a rookie and without consistent 3 point shot.
They have talent to be similar to George/Kawhi as a combo and we know Clippers were dangerous even without all star guard.
Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.
Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.
I agree that our best outcome is to have allstar guard +Wagner/Banchero and then two 3&d but we will see how it goes. I dont think we NEED all star guard to contend.

Well yea, you even said it yourself, Franz is very young, Lebron is oldest player in nba. Last year Lebron's P&R percentile was 72th.
When they won last ring, it was 84th.

Bucks were also very dangerous when their guards were Brogdon and Bledsoe.

Well, you will be suprised but Bledose was elite pick&roll player.
Matter of cat in in 2017-18, Bledsoe was the best pick&roll player, stat vise in nba. 99th percentile . When he arived on Bucks, from what i can see, his Pick&roll was never below 80-ish. People forget how good he was between 2013-2019.

Heat are exaple against your case. Butler is not a guard and Herro was injured/not all star.

Butler just finished season with 5,4 ppg scored off pick&roll on 91 percentile. List of players better than him are: Conley, Durant, Kawhi, Curry, Irving, Mitchell, Lillard. That's it.

In playoffs it was obvious Miami doesn't have elite offensive creation (especially since Herro was hurt) so they focused on weak side isolation for Butler and some akwkward point -center Adebayo sets, but suplimented with just incredible 3 point accuracy.
That's pretty much polar opposite of what Magic can be. Magic in theory have some cration but can't rely on shooters.


I don't think we need both allstar PG and allstar SG, but i think we need top 15 PG and moderate volumen high accuray SG.

I think, given our takes on Franz & Paolo, our best backcourt players would be like Jamal Murray in DEN…a PG in name only. A lights out shooter who can score in volume when needed, but isn’t necessarily doing all of the ball handling & distribution (but definitely a good share of it). Suggs, with continued shooting improvement would be a great partner for that guy and his defensive expertise even allows for a little leeway in settling on the lead guard…obvious young candidates (to me) are Simons & Herro, and if we’re thinking bigger,perhaps even Donovan Mitchell (if committed to ORL). We’d have three guys taking turns leading the team in scoring, all +/- 20 ppg, all very complementary in their offensive skill sets.

Doesn't even have to be that elite. I think some younger Malcolm Brogdon & Suns version of Raja Bell would be perfect.

Not defensive liabilities, not ball dominant, elite spot up shooters who also keep defenses on heels by being very good at movments off ball.

[ibraheim718]

Why Knicks fan cares about Magic?
Hypotetical conversations ,fits, what perfect fit would be. I know you can't grasp any of it. I mean, after all you said stats "bother you".

It's you that can't grasp fit. Are you from Orlando? What gives you more right to be here talking about the team than me? Do you own a stake in the team?

To the franchise my support looks the same as yours. They don't care about this trivial garbage you keep bringing up. I'm a Knicks fan.. yeah.. so what? I'm a Magic fan too because I ROOT for the Magic to win. Can you grasp that? I'm also a Nuggets fan. Get this through your thick head... I AM A BASKETBALL FAN. That's why I'm here and I'm not going anywhere. I may be here a part of this forum for the next 10 years. Deal with it.

[ibraheim718]

I think we can agree that we wont contend until at least one of Wagner/Banchero reaches George/Butler/Tatum level. Guards can be better or worse but need to shoot. Celtics traded Smart even after he got dpoy, Bucks traded Bledsoe despite his p&r game.

That's been my main point of contention. It seems like fans want to gripe about the little things when the big things (figuring out if the team has a superstar) haven't been exposed yet because it's going to take a couple of years.

[pepe1991]

Why Knicks fan cares about Magic?
Hypotetical conversations ,fits, what perfect fit would be. I know you can't grasp any of it. I mean, after all you said stats "bother you".

It's you that can't grasp fit. Are you from Orlando? What gives you more right to be here talking about the team than me? Do you own a stake in the team?

To the franchise my support looks the same as yours. They don't care about this trivial garbage you keep bringing up. I'm a Knicks fan.. yeah.. so what? I'm a Magic fan too because I ROOT for the Magic to win. Can you grasp that? I'm also a Nuggets fan. Get this through your thick head... I AM A BASKETBALL FAN. That's why I'm here and I'm not going anywhere. I may be here a part of this forum for the next 10 years. Deal with it.

I may be here a part of this forum for the next 10 years. Deal with it.

No, i won't ,welcome to foe list.

[fendilim]

I think Magic need both: starting level PG and SG.

Even when you look at landscape of contenders, always at least 1 of guards is allstar caliber player.

Nuggets- Murray & KCP ( Murray plays like bonefied start in playoffs)
Celtics- Jrue & White - Jrue is allstar ( could easly count Brown as part time SG as well)
Warriors- no need to waste time
Bucks- superstar and allstar
Suns- Beal & Booker
Heat- Herro & Butler


It is what it is. You simply need elite ballhandler. Last nba champion without allstar level PG were Miami Heat decade ago.

Right now ,we have bunch of below average starters/okey bench players competing for PG-SG spots. Can somebody turn into more? Maybe. But there isn't much evidence of it so far.

If we want to win now, then you have a point. but I do believe it is too early to close the book on our young guards like suggs, black or jett.

[pepe1991]

I think Magic need both: starting level PG and SG.

Even when you look at landscape of contenders, always at least 1 of guards is allstar caliber player.

Nuggets- Murray & KCP ( Murray plays like bonefied start in playoffs)
Celtics- Jrue & White - Jrue is allstar ( could easly count Brown as part time SG as well)
Warriors- no need to waste time
Bucks- superstar and allstar
Suns- Beal & Booker
Heat- Herro & Butler


It is what it is. You simply need elite ballhandler. Last nba champion without allstar level PG were Miami Heat decade ago.

Right now ,we have bunch of below average starters/okey bench players competing for PG-SG spots. Can somebody turn into more? Maybe. But there isn't much evidence of it so far.

If we want to win now, then you have a point. but I do believe it is too early to close the book on our young guards like suggs, black or jett.

Ofc today it's irrelevant who is our PG or SG, but we should keep eye on what league requires to win before we start handing over massive exstensions. Franz is getting his exstension after this year.

Fultz, Cole are free agents already.
We just have to be careful and not dry out cap space too soon on average players.

[eyriq]

Two points intrigue me.

1. On average, there's 40% turnover in a team's top 5, and again 40% turnover in a team's top ten
2. Franz and Paolo are as near to locks as we have

Given that, is Fultz really a long-term candidate? I just don't see it. Suggs moving into the top five seems likely this season. WCJ isn't going anywhere anytime soon. All the turnover seems to be focused on the backcourt, and Suggs, health willing, would seem to be on the rise.

You rarely see lower than average turnover in rebuilding teams. I think one way or another we shouldn't be getting too attached to Fultz.

This stands regardless of any analysis of his fit with Paolo and Franz. I can only assume Weltman actually likes the fit, since he drafted Black who is similar.

The only way Fultz becomes a threat to lock up the starting spot for the next 3 years is if we win 43+ games. This would be 5+ games above the Vegas break even point, and genuinely interesting.

[Bensational]

I’m talking more about contract dispersal relative to tenure…

Yes, all players develop at different rates.

Lol sure. Your post is quoted right there and you open with “this team has many timeframes of development” but never mention “contract dispersal relative to tenure” once. If you want to talk about cap space, then talk about cap space.

when we are talking about cap space %, contracts, and skill sets

Literally in the same post you are referring to.

It all matters. You are being disingenuous to parse these issues out like they aren’t all connected.

Like I’ve said before, I wouldn’t care whatsoever about Fultz’ shortcomings if he was actually a 3rd year player making a rookie scale contract matched with his development window. He’s not and won’t be.

This is why this thread is 80 pages long with people making absurd qualifying statements about how his fit with Paolo hinges more on Paolos upside than a player 7 seasons into the league, or that Orlando really just needs an extremely high volume SG to alleviate his gravity, or that we need to just wait another 3-4 seasons while shelling out money because this FO can’t make decisions.

No thanks. I’d rather they just realize who works with who and not spend 10 expensive years building a real roster because Magic Twitter liked a dunk.

The reason this thread is 80 pages is because you continuously move the goalposts and accuse other of doing so. So what goalposts are we in between now? “Timeframes of development” or “contractual dispersion”? Oh, NOW they’re all connected and one big set of goalposts that mysteriously move after one of your points gets shot down.

If you want to talk about contracts, talk about contracts. Show us when and where the team becomes financially stuck and with which players? I already started you off by breaking the following 3 seasons down. If you don’t want to break it down then just admit you’re scared of something you don’t understand.

I don’t know what you’re talking about regarding Paolo and Fultz’s fit. Yes, Paolo’s development and outcome will determine what the best fitting pieces around him will be and when they should be incorporated - be it Fultz, Suggs, Black, Franz or WCJ. I don’t think Paolo is ready to win if tasked to carry the team alone with Franz. I question how helpful it would be to him to bring in a veteran who would take possessions away from Paolo, especially if they’re a high volume scorer. In that case you could just as likely be building around the volume scorer instead of Paolo, so perhaps that’s the discussion you should be having? Why do you want to take shots and touches away from Paolo and Franz to give to another player who may or may not be here when they’re ready to compete? Don’t you believe in Paolo and Franz being able to carry the team?