Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

VanWest82 · Post #781 » by **VanWest82** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:31 am

Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

Post #782 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:31 am

Basketball_Jones wrote:Yeah this is what I mean. These outliers can happen come playoff time, but overall I felt like those two teams really weren’t built for shooting. I don’t think we should model ourselves after that (2 hall of famers and a very lucky Miami heat team) but we can certainly have some decent success with a Scottie/Siakam pairing and will have to address shooting come playoff time, among other things.

Those weren't really outliers, though, so that's probably not the best way to approach what I wrote. Miami was actually UNLUCKY that so many of its shooters and its secondary offensive driver were injured during the playoffs. They were a defense-driven team to begin with but they also had no Strus or Herro for most of the postseason

We can make the playoffs if we get a little better, for sure. I don't think that's really a point under contest. What we need to see is how much improvement we can get out of Scottie and how we can tweak Siakam's role in terms of our offense. And we also need to see about getting better on D. Those things will largely determine what our aspirations with this team should be.

Basketball_Jones · Post #783 » by **Basketball_Jones** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:56 am

Scase wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:We havent addressed shooting in like 3-4 years, whats changing in the playoffs lol?

I mean they’re going to play Yak and Schroeder probably less. Continue developing Gradey and Trent for bigger moments. But yes, shooting is going to bite them come playoff time. Regular season they’ll get through like they normally do somehow. If the aim is to move Siakam/Poetl and bring in a bunch of shooters I don’t think that’s happening. Masai and Bobby seem pretty content as evidenced by their lack of activity. People think the Siakam/Scottie experiment is going to fail, I just think it will be fine to a certain point and we don’t have to panic. There’s no big tank move or superstar move coming unfortunately.

Post #784 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 4:59 am

Basketball_Jones wrote: People think the Siakam/Scottie experiment is going to fail, I just think it will be fine to a certain point and we don’t have to panic. There’s no big tank move or superstar move coming unfortunately.

Scottie's a little young and new to be worrying about failure just yet. We do have to give him some time to show us what he can do.

Definitely not expecting a tank move and I agree a superstar isn't coming our way any time soon either.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post #785 » by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:03 am

tsherkin wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote: People think the Siakam/Scottie experiment is going to fail, I just think it will be fine to a certain point and we don’t have to panic. There’s no big tank move or superstar move coming unfortunately.

Scottie's a little young and new to be worrying about failure just yet. We do have to give him some time to show us what he can do.

Definitely not expecting a tank move and I agree a superstar isn't coming our way any time soon either.

We could have had two different superstars these past two summers, we just chose to keep Scottie instead.

Post #786 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:04 am

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:We could have had two different superstars these past two summers, we just chose to keep Scottie instead.

Even assuming those rumors were legit, that sort of reinforces my point. We're not moving Scottie, so we're not going to get a superstar any time soon.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post #787 » by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:16 am

tsherkin wrote:
Nebuchadnezzar wrote:We could have had two different superstars these past two summers, we just chose to keep Scottie instead.

Even assuming those rumors were legit, that sort of reinforces my point. We're not moving Scottie, so we're not going to get a superstar any time soon.

Bobby said publicly that they put forward their biggest package ever for Dame...clearly it didn't include Scottie - don't know how much more proof you need.

More so proves that the organization thinks Scottie is going to be a superstar, and if that's true, we will have a superstar. If he doesn't turn out to be, then we had the chance to trade for two superstars and we blew it. Either way we are once again an elite organization who has done a great job at asset accumulation (with the chance for consolidation in a trade for a superstar.).

Post #788 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:21 am

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:More so proves that the organization thinks Scottie is going to be a superstar, and if that's true, we will have a superstar. If he doesn't turn out to be, then we had the chance to trade for two superstars and we blew it. Either way we are once again an elite organization who has done a great job at asset accumulation (with the chance for consolidation in a trade for a superstar.).

If Scottie doesn't pan out, we aren't going to get a superstar. "Panning out" may not mean he becomes a superstar. Even if a package is on the table, we'd have to gut our team in order to get a guy, and the two available superstars we have been in discussion for are old and fading, so it's not like that positions us well to contend. Lillard has his own issues, as does Durant. Entertaining, both of them, and obviously quite good.., but they'd be little better off here after we gutted our team than they were on their own teams.

I don't want to represent a lack of faith in Masai, I think he's pretty good and he's certainly done well for us. I think you're just overestimating our position/assets, barring Scottie panning out so well that he becomes a superstar. I'd be very thrilled if he was "just" a several-time All-Star over the course of his career. That would be really good for us. Anything more than that is just gravy.

Post #789 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 5:31 am

Meantime with Barnes.

He's shot 9/16 from 3 the past 5 preseason games (about 56.3%) and 17/26 from the line (about 65.4%).

It's very early to take much of anything away from that. The 3s are looking good on the shot, of course, he looks smoother and more comfortable. The FT shooting is pretty crap, but also much more than either of his first two seasons, so likely as unreliable as the short-sample 3pt shooting. He's also drawing at over .460 FTr at the moment. He's more aggressive, his effort level is high, there are good signs to take away, but he isn't going to look the same in the RS, for sure. The draw rate might maintain, the FT shooting will almost certainly improve and I would imagine he'll shoot something like 20%+ worse from 3, which will dramatically alter his efficacy. So we've yet to see what we're going to really get from Scottie, which tempers my excitement a little.

He does, of course, look like on attitude and effort alone that he should look better than last season, and that's promising. That's all we should really be asking of him this year.

SocialistHipHop · Post #790 » by **SocialistHipHop** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 8:38 am

Raps in 4 wrote:I haven't been this excited to watch a 40-win team in a long time. **** the Leafs and the Jays. Watching Scottie develop on this mid team is way more interesting than watching those frauds lose in the first round of the playoffs.

We also get to watch a culture reset with Darko at the helm.

WuTang_CMB · Post #791 » by **WuTang_CMB** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:13 pm

Fixing his mechanics was huge. I hope he can maintain it

Not hesitating and shooting with confidence on the swing 3's like we saw vs Washington will help his game tremendously. Even at a low 30's clip, that will still open up his game and keep the defense honest

Post #792 » by **HiJiNX** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:24 pm

VanWest82 wrote:Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

I think there will be a debate this year. By next season I think it won’t be a debate anymore. And in year five I think we’ll be having top 10 in the NBA conversations.

Johnny Bball · Post #793 » by **Johnny Bball** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:29 pm

VanWest82 wrote:Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

Not at the start, but by the end.

I don't think most of the NBA media have an idea how good his defense is yet, so that pretty much has to come first for it to be realized.

Post #794 » by **HiJiNX** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:36 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

Not at the start, but by the end.

I don't think most of the NBA media have an idea how good his defense is yet, so that pretty much has to come first for it to be realized.

Yeah if there’s one thing I think will carry over from preseason it’s our defence. I think we have a chance at being top 5, but we will certainly be in the top 10.

WuTang_CMB · Post #795 » by **WuTang_CMB** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:39 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

Not at the start, but by the end.

I don't think most of the NBA media have an idea how good his defense is yet, so that pretty much has to come first for it to be realized.

Yeah if there’s one thing I think will carry over from preseason it’s our defence. I think we have a chance at being top 5, but we will certainly be in the top 10.

And we likely won't even have Koloko either

Johnny Bball · Post #796 » by **Johnny Bball** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:43 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

Not at the start, but by the end.

I don't think most of the NBA media have an idea how good his defense is yet, so that pretty much has to come first for it to be realized.

Yeah if there’s one thing I think will carry over from preseason it’s our defence. I think we have a chance at being top 5, but we will certainly be in the top 10.

Yeah I said the same last year and got burned being 15th, so all I will say is ...maybe. It still seems creating turnovers is a goal but slightly less importance placed on it, and that should help.

HumbleRen · Post #797 » by **HumbleRen** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:56 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

I think there will be a debate this year. By next season I think it won’t be a debate anymore. And in year five I think we’ll be having top 10 in the NBA conversations.

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

Post #798 » by **HiJiNX** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:20 pm

HumbleRen wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Next question: is this the year Scottie passes Pascal as best player on the team?

I think the answer is No, but based on what we just saw this preseason I could easily see that happening.

I think there will be a debate this year. By next season I think it won’t be a debate anymore. And in year five I think we’ll be having top 10 in the NBA conversations.

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

Post #799 » by **Reeko** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:26 pm

They said it was a dream, but he's top 15.

Spates · Post #800 » by **Spates** » Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:31 pm

HiJiNX wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:I think there will be a debate this year. By next season I think it won’t be a debate anymore. And in year five I think we’ll be having top 10 in the NBA conversations.

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

Good one, man. You're such an optimist. In our eyes, yeah, these things will play out on court.

Don't expect team excel and team strawman to give up that easily.