Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[HumbleRen]

I think there will be a debate this year. By next season I think it won’t be a debate anymore. And in year five I think we’ll be having top 10 in the NBA conversations.

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

Like wise on the latter part, I'll happily admit that you were right if he does end up in debates on whether he's better than Siakam or not by the end of the season.

[tsherkin]

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

A big leap would be nice, and at his age, is certainly possible. How likely that is, well, that's another story. But some kind of forward evolution in his game seems quite possible. He does look better in these preseason games. How much of that translates, eh, but like, he's visibly engaged and finding ways to be parts of plays all over. And the 3, misleading percentages notwithstanding, looks smoother. So there's some decent hope that he'll be, if not an astonishing player, a lot better than last season (or maybe both).

Siakam I think will benefit mostly by virtue of having to shoot less. Taking on less shot creation duty should help him be more valuable to us offensively, and as a passive benefit, that'll be awesome. And then anything he and Scottie can work out with one another on the court would also be amazing.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

Like wise on the latter part, I'll happily admit that you were right if he does end up in debates on whether he's better than Siakam or not by the end of the season.

Scottie has superstar potential and Siakam is what he is. Second fiddle that crumbles down the stretch as first option. Management have made the choice of Scottie over Siakam already as you can tell buy not extending him, getting a coach that understands that in Darko and shopping Siakam around. Where was Siakam at 22? scrub that couldn't even play in the NBA.. This year Scottie will be number 1 player on this team put the bank on it barring injuries.

[tsherkin]

Scottie has superstar potential and Siakam is what he is. Second fiddle that crumbles down the stretch as first option. Management have made the choice of Scottie over Siakam already as you can tell buy not extending him, getting a coach that understands that in Darko and shopping Siakam around. Where was Siakam at 22? scrub that couldn't even play in the NBA.. This year Scottie will be number 1 player on this team put the bank on it barring injuries.

Even relaxing off of 'superstar potential,' Scottie has the potential to help re-enable efficient offense from Siakam. Pascal is being asked to do too much, and right now, that's more our fault than his. He isn't a first-option level offensive player, we're just sort of shoe-horning him into that role because we don't have anyone else who can do it.

Meantime, at 22, Siakam was a rookie, so that throwaway comment isn't really helpful. He was a late first-round pick, not the 4th overall pick and did a lot of developing very quickly. The closer we can reshape his role to 2019 Pascal with a little extra, the better life will be for our offense. He has lots of ability to contribute, he just shouldn't be shouldering the entire weight of our offense, that's all. He's good for us, if we just support his offense more intelligently than "hey, iso-fest!"

[Spates]

Scottie has superstar potential and Siakam is what he is. Second fiddle that crumbles down the stretch as first option. Management have made the choice of Scottie over Siakam already as you can tell buy not extending him, getting a coach that understands that in Darko and shopping Siakam around. Where was Siakam at 22? scrub that couldn't even play in the NBA.. This year Scottie will be number 1 player on this team put the bank on it barring injuries.

Even relaxing off of 'superstar potential,' Scottie has the potential to help re-enable efficient offense from Siakam. Pascal is being asked to do too much, and right now, that's more our fault than his. He isn't a first-option level offensive player, we're just sort of shoe-horning him into that role because we don't have anyone else who can do it.

Meantime, at 22, Siakam was a rookie, so that throwaway comment isn't really helpful. He was a late first-round pick, not the 4th overall pick and did a lot of developing very quickly. The closer we can reshape his role to 2019 Pascal with a little extra, the better life will be for our offense. He has lots of ability to contribute, he just shouldn't be shouldering the entire weight of our offense, that's all. He's good for us, if we just support his offense more intelligently than "hey, iso-fest!"

I agree. I've been pointing towards this for awhile. While his game has evolved his efficiency had dropped. Orienting towards 2019 Pascal with a more deliberate approach towards his iso game might be best for him
and the team going forward.

Take pressure off of his playmaking responsibility and allow him to attack off-balanced defenses rather than set ones. I think it's a great recipe for him.

[tsherkin]

I agree. I've been pointing towards this for awhile. While his game has evolved his efficiency had dropped. Orienting towards 2019 Pascal with a more deliberate approach towards his iso game might be best for him
and the team going forward.

Take pressure off of his playmaking responsibility and allow him to attack off-balanced defenses rather than set ones. I think it's a great recipe for him.

Like, we don't need to make him a 12 FGA/g guy as he was in 2019. We just need to help him have to create less... which tidily works out, because we want Scottie creating more. So in theory, it's a good synergy all around.

[MoMan24]

I agree. I've been pointing towards this for awhile. While his game has evolved his efficiency had dropped. Orienting towards 2019 Pascal with a more deliberate approach towards his iso game might be best for him
and the team going forward.

Take pressure off of his playmaking responsibility and allow him to attack off-balanced defenses rather than set ones. I think it's a great recipe for him.

Like, we don't need to make him a 12 FGA/g guy as he was in 2019. We just need to help him have to create less... which tidily works out, because we want Scottie creating more. So in theory, it's a good synergy all around.

I agree we need him to score a bunch but him taking 12 FGA, more 3's, playing better defense, running the floor and not holding the ball would still be better than what he gave us last year. There is no reason Siakam should be compared to guys like Randle but if he plays ISO heavy, conserves energy on defense and is not efficient especially in the clutch then the stats mean nothing.

[tsherkin]

I agree we need him to score a bunch but him taking 12 FGA, more 3's, playing better defense, running the floor and not holding the ball would still be better than what he gave us last year. There is no reason Siakam should be compared to guys like Randle but if he plays ISO heavy, conserves energy on defense and is not efficient especially in the clutch then the stats mean nothing.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is we won't need to drop him all the way down to 12 FGA/g. He is a pretty good iso scorer; he was 14th in the league in PPP for players with 3+ isolations per game last season. We just need to float his efficiency by enabling him to take fewer tough possessions and adding more high-efficiency options. 15-ish FGA/g with more passing support is probably a pretty good target sweet spot. And if Scottie does take a more confident, aggressive approach, that can probably happen.

[Spates]

I agree. I've been pointing towards this for awhile. While his game has evolved his efficiency had dropped. Orienting towards 2019 Pascal with a more deliberate approach towards his iso game might be best for him
and the team going forward.

Take pressure off of his playmaking responsibility and allow him to attack off-balanced defenses rather than set ones. I think it's a great recipe for him.

Like, we don't need to make him a 12 FGA/g guy as he was in 2019. We just need to help him have to create less... which tidily works out, because we want Scottie creating more. So in theory, it's a good synergy all around.

Exactly. He can keep his attempts around 18 as the offense allows. His fga was never a problem, it was his playmaking load. If he and a the team are more selective about where he creates, and, if he's more of a play finisher, the game be easier for him.

[tsherkin]

Exactly. He can keep his attempts around 18 as the offense allows. His fga was never a problem, it was his playmaking load. If he and a the team are more selective about where he creates, and, if he's more of a play finisher, the game be easier for him.

Yeah, helping him finish more plays that others have largely initiated will be a good thing. He passes well, which is nice, but it would be better if we shuffled that responsibility elsewhere. I think his season quality will be strongly connected to how well Scottie plays.

[Scase]

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

Like wise on the latter part, I'll happily admit that you were right if he does end up in debates on whether he's better than Siakam or not by the end of the season.

I think the gap between Scottie and Siakam is massive, as in Scottie > Siakam. But I maintain this based on potential, not current production. Scotties skill set is basically everything Siakam can do, but better, better facilitator, better vision, much better passer, better in the paint. Siakam is an overall better shooter than him, but I suspect that is not something Scottie can't catch up/surpass. I mean as a first option Siakam has been well under league efficiency at his position, Scottie hitting better than 56% TS% isn't exactly a high bar to surpass.

Anyone who says Scottie is overall a better player than Siakam right now is out to lunch, but he also has several years on Scottie. I think Siakam is Scotties floor, and I would be pretty disappointed if that's as far as he got, his potential is sky high.

I don't think Siakam being here is even remotely detrimental to Scottie reaching his potential, but eventually I think we need to move away from the both of them and get younger/better at shooting if we really want to go somewhere.

[will]

My body done been ready for Scottish.




Pause.

[HiJiNX]

I don’t want to be mean but what is this based on ? Preseason games in which Scottie was trying harder than anyone else on the court ? Or just your internal projections for him.

Going from what he was last year to being debatable on whether he’s better than a third team all nba caliber player is a massive leap. I really hope you’re right.

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

Like wise on the latter part, I'll happily admit that you were right if he does end up in debates on whether he's better than Siakam or not by the end of the season.

I can respect this take. In terms of what we have seen during meaningful games thus far in their careers, Siakam IS way ahead of Barnes on the curve. But I think Scottie is figuring out that the things he’s good at are hard to stop, slow down, or contain—on both ends. If the three is anywhere in the 33%-35% range in real games then we will definitely be having the conversation. If Scottie can consistently drive to the hoop to finish or create wide open shots for others, again I think we will be having the conversation.

I’ll also concede that it’s within the realm of possibility that Siakam is way more efficient with his offence in this new system.

It’ll be interesting to see it play out.

[HiJiNX]

You know, as promising as it was to see Barnes’ aggression and shot making in the preseason, what I’m most excited by is his ability to get to the line.

[HumbleRen]

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

Like wise on the latter part, I'll happily admit that you were right if he does end up in debates on whether he's better than Siakam or not by the end of the season.

I can respect this take. In terms of what we have seen during meaningful games thus far in their careers, Siakam IS way ahead of Barnes on the curve. But I think Scottie is figuring out that the things he’s good at are hard to stop, slow down, or contain—on both ends. If the three is anywhere in the 33%-35% range in real games then we will definitely be having the conversation. If Scottie can consistently drive to the hoop to finish or create wide open shots for others, again I think we will be having the conversation.

I’ll also concede that it’s within the realm of possibility that Siakam is way more efficient with his offence in this new system.

It’ll be interesting to see it play out.

There’s certainly a pathway but it’ll up to him.

6-7 FTA per game and 6-8 drives per game ? Now we talking about an all star caliber player. Easier said than done though, especially with the spacing around him.

[Los_29]

How do you measure how hard Scottie was trying versus his competition and teammates? How did you arrive at that? If you respond that you were using your eyes then you’ll have also answered the question you posed toward me. I’m using my eyes.

What I don’t understand is your staunch commitment to skepticism.

Anyway, the season will begin soon and these debates will resolve themselves on the court. And when it does, I’m confident that my “homerism” will be vindicated. And if it’s not, I’ll happily admit as much.

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

Like wise on the latter part, I'll happily admit that you were right if he does end up in debates on whether he's better than Siakam or not by the end of the season.

Scottie has superstar potential and Siakam is what he is. Second fiddle that crumbles down the stretch as first option. Management have made the choice of Scottie over Siakam already as you can tell buy not extending him, getting a coach that understands that in Darko and shopping Siakam around. Where was Siakam at 22? scrub that couldn't even play in the NBA.. This year Scottie will be number 1 player on this team put the bank on it barring injuries.

Can’t compare where they were at at the same age. Pascal didn’t start playing organized basketball until he was like 17.

After last season I think we would all be ecstatic if Scottie ends up becoming an all-star and all-nba caliber player. That’s what Pascal is now. Scottie has the potential to be a very good player. However, if his shot doesn’t progress and he doesn’t address his motor then he can just as very easily become the 3rd/4th best player on a team. Lots of work ahead but very encouraged with his strong preseason.

[will]

I think I'm being more respectful of the gap between Scottie and Siakam then it is me being skeptical. The gap is very large in my eyes so I'm just kind of shocked that people see this big of a leap from Scottie this year.

Like wise on the latter part, I'll happily admit that you were right if he does end up in debates on whether he's better than Siakam or not by the end of the season.

I can respect this take. In terms of what we have seen during meaningful games thus far in their careers, Siakam IS way ahead of Barnes on the curve. But I think Scottie is figuring out that the things he’s good at are hard to stop, slow down, or contain—on both ends. If the three is anywhere in the 33%-35% range in real games then we will definitely be having the conversation. If Scottie can consistently drive to the hoop to finish or create wide open shots for others, again I think we will be having the conversation.

I’ll also concede that it’s within the realm of possibility that Siakam is way more efficient with his offence in this new system.

It’ll be interesting to see it play out.

There’s certainly a pathway but it’ll up to him.

6-7 FTA per game and 6-8 drives per game ? Now we talking about an all star caliber player. Easier said than done though, especially with the spacing around him.

Scottish averaging a triple dub this season. Gonna average a triple dub and not even fk around.

[dTox]

Read on Twitter

?t=6-8pb2iOOtqQ9TIpXgyhpg&s=19

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[PoundTown]

Read on Twitter

?t=6-8pb2iOOtqQ9TIpXgyhpg&s=19

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

His Defence has looked very good this preseason. Help defense has been good and he now has the strength to bang with centers similar to draymond, making him very versatile. He’s definitely looking like a plus player defensively and is not taking breaks at that end.

Also, like how darko is using him, in those 6 minute Bursts or so, so he can go all out, get a couple minutes and do it again.

[sidsid]

Exactly. He can keep his attempts around 18 as the offense allows. His fga was never a problem, it was his playmaking load. If he and a the team are more selective about where he creates, and, if he's more of a play finisher, the game be easier for him.

Yeah, helping him finish more plays that others have largely initiated will be a good thing. He passes well, which is nice, but it would be better if we shuffled that responsibility elsewhere. I think his season quality will be strongly connected to how well Scottie plays.

The goal of a star when the game slows down for you is to pick your spots when the team needs you. We were treating Siakam almost like a heliocentric player. Jimmy Butler wasn't even used that way.

When the offense is flowing you get your teammates involved and keep it flowing. When it grinds to halt the ball gets to you and that's where we need him to do work.