Sixers Offseason Thread Part 5

Negrodamus · Post #1441 » by **Negrodamus** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:32 pm

The best part of the Knicks trade are the draft picks since the Knicks haven't f'd up those picks yet.

Barrett and Randle are complete empty calorie "stars". Mitchell Robinson is a homeless man's Andre Drummond. I don't really understand the allure of this proposal, lol. So we can become the Knicks?

the_process · Post #1442 » by **the_process** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:45 pm

I mean, I get Pompey needs clicks... but why is he talking to Leon Rose?

Also it's cute the Knicks think Randle and Barrett are valuable.

Skates · Post #1443 » by **Skates** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:47 pm

Negrodamus wrote:The best part of the Knicks trade are the draft picks since the Knicks haven't f'd up those picks yet.

Barrett and Randle are complete empty calorie "stars". Mitchell Robinson is a homeless man's Andre Drummond. I don't really understand the allure of this proposal, lol. So we can become the Knicks?

All of the Knicks FRP's from other teams are at least top ten protected and their own picks are not going to be that great, hence some volume, but no chance at a high lottery pick even if they trade you a boatload of them. As for the players they are allegedly offering, I would not trade Maxey for a single one of those players, much less take on their mediocre or worse talent and salaries.

Sixers owe picks as well, so straight out tanking is not an option, nor would Harris go there again after Silver spanked him last time.

Skates · Post #1444 » by **Skates** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:49 pm

the_process wrote:I mean, I get Pompey needs clicks... but why is he talking to Leon Rose?

Also it's cute the Knicks think Randle and Barrett are valuable.

In fairness, who else wants to talk to Pompey? If there was ever a guy who is retired on the job for about ten years now, it is Keith.

FlyingArrow · Post #1445 » by **FlyingArrow** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:08 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
76ciology wrote:Chet has a good chance to be better than Embiid. Even Chet’s college numbers is better than Embiid.

Chet also does not have as much health concerns. And given the data you have on Biid, you’d better off rolling the dice with Chet.

Going to have to disagree there chief. So you basically think that Chet will be an MVP?

Chet could be as good as Embiid, but every year there are a dozen+ players with the potential to turn into a Hall of Famer. Few do.

Embiid will retire as a top 12 all-time center. You can count off the top centers easily enough (in no particular order): KAJ, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Hakeem, Jokic, Embiid, Mikan, Moses Malone. That's 11. Not sure who #12 might be. Depending on how you rank them and how Embiid's plays the rest of his career, he could conceivably end up as high as #6 or #8, but certainly no worse than #12.

Realistically, there aren't more than about 5 humans (maybe as few as 1 or 2) who are under age 25 and who are going to play as a center as well as Embiid. That includes high school, elementary school, all the way down to toddlers. If only 5-10 have outplayed him in the first 75 years of the NBA, we shouldn't expect more than 1-5 people to outplay him in the next 25-30 years.

Is Chet one of those few? Could be. His college record says it's possible, but it isn't likely simply because tons of players have the potential to be as good as Embiid. Few will.

the_process · Post #1446 » by **the_process** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:15 pm

I would consider this deal with the Knicks:

Randle to MIA
Embiid, Harden, and Tucker to NY
Grimes, Fournier, MRobinson, Barrett, Lowry, 24-26-28-30 Knick UNP 1sts, 27 MIA UNP 1st (right to swap with NYK), 29 rights to swap with NYK, 24 DAL 1st top 10 protected, 25 MIL 1st top 4 protected, and the two fake 1sts the Knicks own (heavily protected 1sts from DET and WSH).

That's 7 1sts (4 with upside), 2 swaps, 2 fake 1st lottery tickets, a good young guard who can play with Maxey, a guy with some name value because he was drafted high, a shot blocking C, and 2 big expiring contracts. Without crunching the numbers Morey can probably work it to still have a lot of cap room.

I can sell myself on it, and I can also talk myself out of it. Meh. Just a thought.

Lou_23 · Post #1447 » by **Lou_23** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:21 pm

mksp wrote:I doubt OKC breaks that team up. They're too young and fun.

I'd be furious as an OKC fan if they traded any meaningful assets for Joel.

I think this can happen if their season isnt good, if they finish with 35-38 wins.

Enviado desde mi CPH2135 mediante Tapatalk

Kova · Post #1448 » by **Kova** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:50 pm

The Knicks proposal is awful. There's literally zero value for us there in return. Yes, the picks, but you also need to get the player with a star potential at least. Knicks don't have that. Unless you are burning it to the ground and doing 'the process' all over again and hope to build the team through draft (which would also require a few years of picks 1-3).

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1449 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:58 pm

It's an interesting proposal, but I think we'd essentially become an even worse version of the treadmill team that we are right now. At least right now, we're in the conversation and a yearly basis for who could potentially come out of the east. If we do that trade, we're going to be a 5-6th seed every season until we have enough. I think if we sell Embiid, it's going to go to the highest bidder of assets. New York offering multiple first round picks (if true) is also something to think about. At the end of the day, I think they realistically have the best chance to trade for Embiid. I don't hate this trade as far as what we get back, but it doesn't do anything either way for US and it may create more work for whoever our GM (Morey) is later on down the line.

WuTang_CMB · Post #1450 » by **WuTang_CMB** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:16 pm

Embiid will secure his bag before anything

FireMorey · Post #1451 » by **FireMorey** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:15 pm

The Sixers would never trade him to the Knicks. One of the best players in franchise history and most popular players ever in this city and MVP player to a division rival?

It's unfathomable that people have ever thought this was remotely possible.

FlyingArrow · Post #1452 » by **FlyingArrow** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:17 pm

Why are we even talking about what the Knicks would offer for Embiid? Let's talk about what the Knicks would offer for Jokic. It makes about as much sense. Embiid is playing for the Sixers this year.

the_process · Post #1453 » by **the_process** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:15 pm

FlyingArrow wrote:Why are we even talking about what the Knicks would offer for Embiid? Let's talk about what the Knicks would offer for Jokic. It makes about as much sense. Embiid is playing for the Sixers this year.

Because it's more interesting than the upcoming Sixers season, quite frankly.

the_process · Post #1454 » by **the_process** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 8:16 pm

FireMorey wrote:The Sixers would never trade him to the Knicks. One of the best players in franchise history and most popular players ever in this city and MVP player to a division rival?

It's unfathomable that people have ever thought this was remotely possible.

Disagree. If the offer is big enough they would.

Skates · Post #1455 » by **Skates** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:30 pm

the_process wrote:
FireMorey wrote:The Sixers would never trade him to the Knicks. One of the best players in franchise history and most popular players ever in this city and MVP player to a division rival?

It's unfathomable that people have ever thought this was remotely possible.

Disagree. If the offer is big enough they would.

Mediocre players and mediocre draft picks are hard to make overwhelming. OKC and Utah can both make better offers without touching Holmgren (history of super tall and thin guys in the league is very poor health-wise) or SGA. They have better picks and even their secondary level players are better prosects than the Knicks would offer.

the_process · Post #1456 » by **the_process** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:34 pm

Skates wrote:
the_process wrote:
FireMorey wrote:The Sixers would never trade him to the Knicks. One of the best players in franchise history and most popular players ever in this city and MVP player to a division rival?

It's unfathomable that people have ever thought this was remotely possible.

Disagree. If the offer is big enough they would.

Mediocre players and mediocre draft picks are hard to make overwhelming. OKC and Utah can both make better offers without touching Holmgren (history of super tall and thin guys in the league is very poor health-wise) or SGA. They have better picks and even their secondary level players are better prosects than the Knicks would offer.

Agreed that the Thunder can make the best Embiid offer.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1457 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:53 pm

I will explode with anger if we trade Joel Embiid. It's simply not going to happen. We're talking about a generational talent at the center position. I think some of you take that for granted. We're not giving him away nor are we just trading just because "it's time do it." The only way we trade him is if he demands it. The only way we were going to trade Charles Barkley or Allen Iverson was when they asked out. I know Barkley definitely did and I'm willing to bet Iverson did so behind closed doors. Barkley, Iverson, and Embiid. That's three franchise players in a thirty-eight-year span.

With Joel Embiid and four scrubs on the floor, this team is a playoff team. With Joel Embiid and the current supporting cast (minus fata$$ Harden) this is a fifty-win roster. I'm sure Morey and company will at the very least critique any offer thrown their way for Embiid, and obviously we will also, but at the end of the day, this is not something that should go beyond just general discussion.

76ciology · Post #1458 » by **76ciology** » Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:01 am

eyeatoma wrote:
76ciology wrote:Chet has a good chance to be better than Embiid. Even Chet’s college numbers is better than Embiid.

Chet also does not have as much health concerns. And given the data you have on Biid, you’d better off rolling the dice with Chet.

Going to have to disagree there chief. So you basically think that Chet will be an MVP?

Jokic should have been MVP last season. Playoffs made everyone realize that.

Ben Simmons won an all-nba team award. Derrick Rose won MVP. Rudy Gobert won DPOY. Awards are meaningless

Can Chet be a better player than Embiid? there is a good chance for that.

How? Compare Embiid and Chet at age 21. Chet is not just more advanced on offense and impactful on defense. Chet also has better collegiate numbers and less questions on health.

Im not talking about probability and in the future, not definite and in the present. Nobody can see the future, there will be lots of factor involved like attitude towards development, freak injuries and roles.

76ciology · Post #1459 » by **76ciology** » Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:17 am

Regarding trading Embiid. It depends on the window of winning with him.

If we can’t have a good window to win with him, then its very likely that the better route to win a championship is by trading him.

Is our goal winning a championship or trying to be a legacy team for Embiid? Every year there is a team winning the championship and they dont have Joel Embiid, some has franchise players better than Joel Embiid some has franchise players not better than Joel Embiid.

Some even think that we need Maxey to be an alpha for us to win the championship, and that speaks volume aside from the fact that we didnt have any meaningful playoff series victories aside from beating fringe playoff teams in the playoffs despite having more talented teammates than Jokic or Giannis.

There are several ways to win a championship. And if the current equation of Embiid plus non superstar player team can’t put you in a position to win it then you go to an alternative route.

But here’s the thing, for now I’d wait and see with how our team play out this season. Then I’d see how lucky we’d be in the Harden trade, in the trade deadline and in the 2024 FA sweepstakes. If we flop on all these events, then we need to have a greenlight to explore moving on from Jojo AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1460 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:25 am

76ciology wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
76ciology wrote:Chet has a good chance to be better than Embiid. Even Chet’s college numbers is better than Embiid.

Chet also does not have as much health concerns. And given the data you have on Biid, you’d better off rolling the dice with Chet.

Going to have to disagree there chief. So you basically think that Chet will be an MVP?

Jokic should have been MVP last season

Ben Simmons won an all-nba team award. Derrick Rose won MVP. Rudy Gobert won DPOY. Awards are meaningless

Can Chet be a better player than Embiid? there is a good chance for that. Im not talking about probability and in the future, not definite and in the present.

What makes you say this? I like Holmgren a lot. I think he's going to do some big things in this league, but dude...He hasn't shown me anything that remotely suggests he'll be a better player than prime Embiid. I fully expected Holmgren to dominate in college and he really did not. In fact, there were times when Drew Timme was the best player on that Gonzaga team. I'll personally have to see what Holmgren does this season before determining whether or not he's got the potential to be in the same class as Embiid.

With that being said, Holmgren is the ideal type of player to at the very least start a conversation about a trade. OKC to me would make the most sense in a hypothetical situation. Chet would have to be an absolute, must-have player to get talks going. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Joel Embiid, but I'm not here to try to convince people of anything.