Game 4: San Antonio Spurs (1-2) @ Phoenix Suns (2-1) l Tuesday l 7:00pm l TNT

[Saberestar]

Bottom line. Divas don’t win championships.
Suns have 3 divas. We’re not winning nothing.
But I’m excited to watch entertaining competitive basketball

you didnt' just call KD a diva. he is hard carrying this team right now and was doing the same back on the Nets when Kyrie and Harden were out. if there is a diva on the big 3, it's not him.

I recommend you to don't buy for a second that absurd theory that he is trying to put on the table. The Suns don’t have any diva on their roster.

KD plays always with or without pain. The guy is a gym rat and a baller.

Book and Beal are injured now and they are rehabbing to get back to the court. Plain and simple.

We don't know Beal that well but we know that Book always want to play (even injured ) and coaches and staff have to stop him before he can get himself even more injured with that mentality.

[bwgood77]

Listening to Vogel post game press conference, sounds like he believes it was a good decision to just inbound the ball to our 95% FT shooter, so I guess he is correct. Durant did get hacked and the refs just swallowed their whistle. I think even at that point the Spurs would be trying to foul so they can run a play after FTs, and refs just missed it.

Yeah, you can't anticipate a steal and if KD has it, he's the best person to have it. It would have been very hard to inbound it with Wemby there if we had a timeout.

Hindsight is 20/20.

We will have some bad losses, especially when missing 2 of our best 3 players.

[enigmatics]

Listening to Vogel post game press conference, sounds like he believes it was a good decision to just inbound the ball to our 95% FT shooter, so I guess he is correct. Durant did get hacked and the refs just swallowed their whistle. I think even at that point the Spurs would be trying to foul so they can run a play after FTs, and refs just missed it.

Yeah, you can't anticipate a steal and if KD has it, he's the best person to have it. It would have been very hard to inbound it with Wemby there if we had a timeout.

Hindsight is 20/20.

We will have some bad losses, especially when missing 2 of our best 3 players.

Could it be argued that he wasn't protecting the ball enough though? The way he's holding it strikes me as a bit lazy given the circumstance.

[MrMiyagi]

Listening to Vogel post game press conference, sounds like he believes it was a good decision to just inbound the ball to our 95% FT shooter, so I guess he is correct. Durant did get hacked and the refs just swallowed their whistle. I think even at that point the Spurs would be trying to foul so they can run a play after FTs, and refs just missed it.

Yeah, you can't anticipate a steal and if KD has it, he's the best person to have it. It would have been very hard to inbound it with Wemby there if we had a timeout.

Hindsight is 20/20.

We will have some bad losses, especially when missing 2 of our best 3 players.

Did Keldon establish himself in bounds before he put hands on the ball?

[Qwigglez]

Could it be argued that he wasn't protecting the ball enough though? The way he's holding it strikes me as a bit lazy given the circumstance.

This video has the best angle. KD was sweeping the ball across and got swiped on the face by Tre Jones.

Read on Twitter

[enigmatics]

Could it be argued that he wasn't protecting the ball enough though? The way he's holding it strikes me as a bit lazy given the circumstance.

This video has the best angle. KD was sweeping the ball across and got swiped on the face by Tre Jones.

Read on Twitter

I get that part, but he brought the ball up high almost as if anticipating launching a pass down court. He knows a foul/hack was coming, so personally would have liked to see better balls security there.

[sunsfan1o1]

Bottom line. Divas don’t win championships.
Suns have 3 divas. We’re not winning nothing.
But I’m excited to watch entertaining competitive basketball

you didnt' just call KD a diva. he is hard carrying this team right now and was doing the same back on the Nets when Kyrie and Harden were out. if there is a diva on the big 3, it's not him.

I recommend you to don't buy for a second that absurd theory that he is trying to put on the table. The Suns don’t have any diva on their roster.

KD plays always with or without pain. The guy is a gym rat and a baller.

Book and Beal are injured now and they are rehabbing to get back to the court. Plain and simple.

We don't know Beal that well but we know that Book always want to play (even injured ) and coaches and staff have to stop him before he can get himself even more injured with that mentality.

KD is pretty Diva ish. He’s not like Harden or Simmons but he has Diva qualities.
Booker is definitely a diva. Don’t double me in open gym. Toronto mascot don’t try to make me miss my free throw. My toe hurts I can’t play. Those are diva like qualities.
KD hasn’t won anything on his own. He only won when he was with non Divas in GS. Once he got with his diva friends in BK they couldn’t win.
CP3 looks like he’s done being a diva now cuz he has to assimilate to the non diva GS culture.
But we shall see.
Giannis and Dame ain’t no divas. Neither is Jrue or Tatum or Murray and Jokic. It’s gonna be hard to beat those teams

[Qwigglez]

I get that part, but he brought the ball up high almost as if anticipating launching a pass down court. He knows a foul/hack was coming, so personally would have liked to see better balls security there.

I feel like he was just about to pass to EG right before getting hacked.

[sunskerr]

Well first I don’t know why you care so much what people want to talk about. This is a place for discussion on Suns and basketball. Are you like Russia or China or maybe you’re North Korea trying to stop anyone from speaking on Ayton.

2nd of all if DA was on this team still he would be playing with KD and he would be in the game at the end of the 4th quarter and not on the bench like Nurkic and DA would’ve grabbed that rebound and Wemby wouldn’t have had an easy putback dunk and we win the game.

So I can understand what Slim is saying. I don’t understand your point though

youre not helping your case. Now you're bringing in countries on the other side of the world into play here

melted. those neurons are just melted. gotta turn off the computer and tv and detox. maybe grow some plants.

[Qwigglez]

KD is pretty Diva ish. He’s not like Harden or Simmons but he has Diva qualities.
Booker is definitely a diva. Don’t double me in open gym. Toronto mascot don’t try to make me miss my free throw. My toe hurts I can’t play. Those are diva like qualities.
KD hasn’t won anything on his own. He only won when he was with non Divas in GS. Once he got with his diva friends in BK they couldn’t win.
CP3 looks like he’s done being a diva now cuz he has to assimilate to the non diva GS culture.
But we shall see.
Giannis and Dame ain’t no divas. Neither is Jrue or Tatum or Murray and Jokic. It’s gonna be hard to beat those teams

There are so many interviews from other NBA players that talk about the double in the gym and almost all of them agree with Booker that they are there to work on their craft, nobody should be caring about winning a scrimmage at the local Y.
His toe hurt is funny because he sprained his ankle. Curry did something that he should know should never be done and is to take away a shooter's landing space. I know it was mentioned Booker was hurt late in the game, but I think he likely tweaked his ankle on this play initially (around 25 seconds).

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Plus... I'd prefer Booker and Beal are out now in early November than later in the season.

[Puff]

Listening to Vogel post game press conference, sounds like he believes it was a good decision to just inbound the ball to our 95% FT shooter, so I guess he is correct. Durant did get hacked and the refs just swallowed their whistle. I think even at that point the Spurs would be trying to foul so they can run a play after FTs, and refs just missed it.

Yeah, you can't anticipate a steal and if KD has it, he's the best person to have it. It would have been very hard to inbound it with Wemby there if we had a timeout.

Hindsight is 20/20.

We will have some bad losses, especially when missing 2 of our best 3 players.

That is pure BS. Every freaking coach in the NBA would have called a time out prior to inbounding that ball under their basket to KD.

That is dumb sheet basketball at its finest.

I don't care if the octopus guards the inbounds pass at center court or not, that cannot and was not part of any game plan.

You were Ayton's biggest defender now you are coming to the defense of the most OVERRATED COACH IN THE NBA.

MATTY and his friend Isaiah may have screwed this franchise for the rest of this decade.

We had a really good thing going until the Durant trade. We just had a couple of guys hurt but had point guards and draft picks.

Now we have BAD BACK BEALE, along with the IR list waiting for Booker (OH, he is already there) KD and Nurkic. If you think it is going to get any better anytime soon. This is with a coach that does not know how to call a time out. Gimme a break.

[kennydorglas]

It still frightening that our coach still can make so many juvenile errors in critical possessions.
Monty was really bad in this and apparently Vogel wont be a upgrade at all in this.

Just watch how Pop behaves mid game, how he throw curveballs at you in every second of the game...
he never lets momentum dictates the game.
So many small things that he does in CRAZY HIGH level that made him to be this good.

Jury still out on Vogel, but if he stays doing this crap again... it wont be pretty at all.

[enigmatics]

It still frightening that our coach still can make so many juvenile errors in critical possessions.
Monty was really bad in this and apparently Vogel wont be a upgrade at all in this.

Just watch how Pop behaves mid game, how he throw curveballs at you in every second of the game...
he never lets momentum dictates the game.
So many small things that he does in CRAZY HIGH level that made him to be this good.

Jury still out on Vogel, but if he stays doing this crap again... it wont be pretty at all.

Pop literally called a timeout with the Suns up 4-0. Vogel would never.

He easily gets the most criticism on the Suns team to start this year.

[sunsfan1o1]

KD is pretty Diva ish. He’s not like Harden or Simmons but he has Diva qualities.
Booker is definitely a diva. Don’t double me in open gym. Toronto mascot don’t try to make me miss my free throw. My toe hurts I can’t play. Those are diva like qualities.
KD hasn’t won anything on his own. He only won when he was with non Divas in GS. Once he got with his diva friends in BK they couldn’t win.
CP3 looks like he’s done being a diva now cuz he has to assimilate to the non diva GS culture.
But we shall see.
Giannis and Dame ain’t no divas. Neither is Jrue or Tatum or Murray and Jokic. It’s gonna be hard to beat those teams

There are so many interviews from other NBA players that talk about the double in the gym and almost all of them agree with Booker that they are there to work on their craft, nobody should be caring about winning a scrimmage at the local Y.
His toe hurt is funny because he sprained his ankle. Curry did something that he should know should never be done and is to take away a shooter's landing space. I know it was mentioned Booker was hurt late in the game, but I think he likely tweaked his ankle on this play initially (around 25 seconds).

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Plus... I'd prefer Booker and Beal are out now in early November than later in the season.

The only interview I care about and that Booker should care about is the Kobe one.
They asked Kobe directly regarding Booker “have you ever been doubled in open gym”
Kobe said yes, you’re gonna have to send another one.
That’s the difference between diva and Mamba.

[kennydorglas]

It still frightening that our coach still can make so many juvenile errors in critical possessions.
Monty was really bad in this and apparently Vogel wont be a upgrade at all in this.

Just watch how Pop behaves mid game, how he throw curveballs at you in every second of the game...
he never lets momentum dictates the game.
So many small things that he does in CRAZY HIGH level that made him to be this good.

Jury still out on Vogel, but if he stays doing this crap again... it wont be pretty at all.

Pop literally called a timeout with the Suns up 4-0. Vogel would never.

He easily gets the most criticism on the Suns team to start this year.

And this is what makes him and Spo so great.
Its so good when your team is GOOD and have an even better coach to make it even more easy.

[AtheJ415]

It still frightening that our coach still can make so many juvenile errors in critical possessions.
Monty was really bad in this and apparently Vogel wont be a upgrade at all in this.

Just watch how Pop behaves mid game, how he throw curveballs at you in every second of the game...
he never lets momentum dictates the game.
So many small things that he does in CRAZY HIGH level that made him to be this good.

Jury still out on Vogel, but if he stays doing this crap again... it wont be pretty at all.

This. Giving Vogel a pass because he only had 1 top 5 player in the NBA and a 20 point lead against a TERRIBLE Spurs team when he makes mind-numbingly stupid decisions in game over and over is not appropriate.

We should not require an overwhelming talent advantage in order to criticize Vogel when he has done such absurd things in back to back games. We shoul easily be 4-0 right now with any remotely competent in game coach.

[bwgood77]

The reality is many are jumping to completely irrelevant excuses for individual mind-boggling decisions by Vogel. No coach fails to call timeout when KD gets trapped there. Few coaches watch a lead evaporate like that, allow such terrible 3 point defense the entire 2nd half, and such lazy half-assed turnovers. Booker and Beal have 0 to do with all of those things occuring. Their brilliance should not have to overcome our coach making idiotic decisions or allowing the lack of intensity we have now repeatedly shown once we get a lead.

Vogel owes all of us an apology and anybody saying it is somehow okay to lose these games in the manner we have is a loser. You should not lose when up 20+ to teams you are better than even without Booker and Beal. Expectations should not be that we should lose any game that 2 of our 3 stars are out. The Spurs absolutely suck as a team and we had a commanding lead and said, "enough is enough" and half assed the rest of the game while our coach watched it until we only led by 5.

None of this should be okay. To anybody. **** Vogel

Who do you prefer between Vogel, Monty, Igor, Triano or Hornacek?

[bwgood77]

I feel bad for fans that went to the game. It’s halloween and they probably spend a small fortune on those tickets to watch their team play on a fun holiday for the kids and didn’t even get to see Booker/Beal play and had to watch the team choke away the game. Sucks but that’s why I’ve always followed the principle of never ever going to a game on a holiday. I’ve only been to like maybe 25-30 Suns games in my life and all have been on random days.

I have friends that gone to Suns games on Christmas Day and it’s ruined their entire mood and Christmas. I don’t care if the Suns were playing a middle school team on Christmas, I still wouldn’t go because I don’t trust them 100% to not play down to the competition.

But anyway yeah apart from the fans perspective, it’s just a whatever loss.

Worst part about going to NBA games is you never know who is going to play. I don’t think Beal and Booker are even injured, more precautionary than anything. That’s BS for fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nah Beal is definitely injured. I don’t know if you saw those clips from Twitter where they showed him shooting around and mfer could basically barely even stand. The way he was walking and how his motions looked reminded me of my 81 year old grandma who also had severe back problems before she passed away last year.

Booker I think will probably come back sometime this month (November). But Beal I honestly don’t think will be back before Christmas at the very earliest. More likely is probably late Jan/February. The damn Wizards may have sold us a lemon.

It's always nice to have a medical professional on the forum.

[bwgood77]

Listening to Vogel post game press conference, sounds like he believes it was a good decision to just inbound the ball to our 95% FT shooter, so I guess he is correct. Durant did get hacked and the refs just swallowed their whistle. I think even at that point the Spurs would be trying to foul so they can run a play after FTs, and refs just missed it.

Yeah, you can't anticipate a steal and if KD has it, he's the best person to have it. It would have been very hard to inbound it with Wemby there if we had a timeout.

Hindsight is 20/20.

We will have some bad losses, especially when missing 2 of our best 3 players.

Could it be argued that he wasn't protecting the ball enough though? The way he's holding it strikes me as a bit lazy given the circumstance.

Sure, with hindsight. The biggest mistake was not having a C in down the stretch to make sure we secured the board before.

[lilfishi22]

Name a single thing Vogel has done in the 4th quarter of either game that was a positive.

Your logic is how you end up with retread coach after retread coach. You are why Josh McDaniels keeps getting jobs.

Surely, we can all sit here and say a coach who gets 9 points out of a 4th quarter with Kevin Durant and elite shooting on his roster to blow a giant lead to a terrible team is inexcusable. One where they completely ignored the rotations and lineup that got them the massive lead in the first place, and put the worst shooters on the team on the court all at the same time. That is inexcusable right? Most, if not all, coaches would do better than that. Hell, I would be able to get 10 points out of a KD lineup by running the same play the entire 4th quarter. Kevin Young certainly gets more than 9 points in a quarter out of our roster.

Surely, we can say saving a timeout so you can not use it with 3 seconds left and a terrible inbound angle, and then to watch your best player get trapped and still not use it, is inexcusable. Do you honestly think Kevin Young would not know to use a timeout there? Even Reggie Miller knows you use a timeout there.

Surely, we can say blowing back to back giant leads when overwhelming favored is inexcusable, right? Starting the 4th I'm not certain you could even place bets on the Suns moneyline in either of these games. They were that unlikely to **** up, but not for Frank Vogel.

Frank Vogel has done this much of his career. Did you watch him on the Lakers? He is notorious for poor timeout usage. He tried a small ball lineup with Carmelo Anthony's corpse as a center. Yes, you read that right.

He is a great defensive coach, but he absolutely sucks at EVERYTHING else. So yes, it's safe to say that the more one of the best assistants in the NBA takes over the non-defensive duties, the better, especially when I have now witnessed back to back losses due to the worst coaching I have ever seen with the exception of Earl Watson.

Name one thing Young has done to deserve your undying praise and loyalty?

So you think calling a painfully obvious timeout, demanding players play with effort, and not playing your worst shooting lineup and going away from what worked to give you a commanding 20+ point lead --are things we should expect only from coaches who are unquestionably great? I think reasonably that Kevin Young doesn't suck. I also think reasonably that Vogel is elite at 1 side of the ball and nothing else. That has been proven in his entire history of coaching.

I am making the assumption that Kevin Young is not a basketball idiot because he is universally praised as one of the best assistants in basketball and one of the best up and coming coaches. Frank Vogel has proven in the past 2 games that his timeout usage, challenge usage, and adjustments--are basketball idiocy.

OK so just your assumption, great that's good to know