Image ImageImage Image

Bears 2023 thread V

Moderators: HomoSapien, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23

HearshotKDS
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,964
And1: 1,102
Joined: Apr 17, 2010
 

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1461 » by HearshotKDS » Tue Dec 5, 2023 8:05 pm

HoopsterJones wrote:Bears have the #1 and #5 as of today.

Key week 14 games for the 2024 tankathon (Draft):

NE (2-10) @ PIT (7-5)
DET (9-3) @ CHI (4-8)
HOU (7-5) @ NYJ (4-8)
TEN (4-8) @ MIA (9-3)
GB (6-6) @ NYG (4-8)

I’m hoping some how the NYJ and NYG find a way to win.

NE looks so god awful that I doubt they can beat PIT with Mitch.
TEN won’t be beating MIA.

CHI are only 3 point under dogs against DET.


Probably more realistic to say Bears are 4th overall right now, since WAS will have a bye, not play a game, and then no matter what the rest of the NFL does they will be behind all of the 4 win teams except TEN due to SOS.

If Bears lose out they get 3rd overall because of SoS but thats a suprisingly big *if* right now given how they started the season.
HearshotKDS
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,964
And1: 1,102
Joined: Apr 17, 2010
 

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1462 » by HearshotKDS » Tue Dec 5, 2023 8:11 pm

fleet wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:Check out some of Caleb's film breakdown by guys who know a lot more than we do. It's not all great, but you can see why he's so hyped.


It’s great. Unfortunately I want to see more highlights of on time throws from the pocket. I want to know he will have the discipline to take the quick release singles to move the chains instead of passing too many up for hunting Hone runs and triples. I know he can do it. His YouTubes are too oriented to spectacular plays for my personal purposes. I will watch when i have the time though, thanks

https://www.youtube.com/live/2kmHD7YT1iA?si=qWTPAsP54sPeMwoS&t=1983

Here's a breakdown of the top 5 QBs film using about an hour per each of all 22 - not just highlights but a ton of throws from each game - starting at Williams and working down the "list" if you want to jump. College All-22 is notoriously fickle in that NCAA is extremely aggressive with copyright strikes so not sure if/how long this will stay up.
Dresden
RealGM
Posts: 14,396
And1: 6,723
Joined: Nov 02, 2017
       

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1463 » by Dresden » Tue Dec 5, 2023 8:43 pm

Imagine if Fields did show a lot the rest of the year, and we ended up drafting MHJ and Bowers? You would have a receiving core of DJ, MHJ, Mooney, Scott, Kmet and Bowers.
patryk7754
General Manager
Posts: 9,093
And1: 1,613
Joined: Jan 22, 2012

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1464 » by patryk7754 » Tue Dec 5, 2023 8:47 pm

The thing with Williams (when compared to Fields) is that they have similar issues. Unless its a screen, Caleb tends to hold on to the ball for too long and doesn't make the reads quickly. Obviously, with fields being in the league for 3 years now, it's a bigger concern for him because you'd Williams would be a rookie- so that's something you'd expect. For me, I'm not sure if drafting Williams puts the team in a better position to win a superbowl when the trade off is getting 2/3 more top-tier skill players. I'd have to see how Fields plays for he rest of the season but its frustrating because the Getsy won't call real plays. He's in the evaluation stage, so call real plays and let him fail or succeed.

Ultimately, I have the feeling we'll move on from Fields and draft Williams. Best case scenario, he'll be Kyler Murray but a lot bigger and a little less loose (somewhere in between Russell Wilson and Murray).
patryk7754
General Manager
Posts: 9,093
And1: 1,613
Joined: Jan 22, 2012

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1465 » by patryk7754 » Tue Dec 5, 2023 8:50 pm

Dresden wrote:Imagine if Fields did show a lot the rest of the year, and we ended up drafting MHJ and Bowers? You would have a receiving core of DJ, MHJ, Mooney, Scott, Kmet and Bowers.

I've been saying this all season. Even if Fields ends up being horrible. We'd have 80-100m in cap (pending cuts and who we resign) to add another pass rusher or two. Colt McCoy could take that to the playoffs.
Almost Retired
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,671
And1: 909
Joined: Oct 07, 2020
       

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1466 » by Almost Retired » Tue Dec 5, 2023 9:13 pm

[quote="Dresden"]Imagine if Fields did show a lot the rest of the year, and we ended up drafting MHJ and Bowers? You would have a receiving core of DJ, MHJ, Mooney, Scott, Kmet and Bowers.[/quote

And add Roschon blocking in the backfield and then releasing if nobody else is open. Plus Field's running ability. All we would need is a new Offensive Coordinator. One that doesn't call 3 screen passes in a row, or send Herbert between the tackles 2 or 3 times in short yardage situations with the box stacked by the Defense. Oh to be able to clone Shanahan and hire him as our OC.
Almost Retired
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,671
And1: 909
Joined: Oct 07, 2020
       

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1467 » by Almost Retired » Tue Dec 5, 2023 9:20 pm

patryk7754 wrote:
Dresden wrote:Imagine if Fields did show a lot the rest of the year, and we ended up drafting MHJ and Bowers? You would have a receiving core of DJ, MHJ, Mooney, Scott, Kmet and Bowers.

I've been saying this all season. Even if Fields ends up being horrible. We'd have 80-100m in cap (pending cuts and who we resign) to add another pass rusher or two. Colt McCoy could take that to the playoffs.



So could Nix and he can probably be had between 15 and the end of the First Round depending on how many teams opt to Draft a QB. Celeb and Maye are locks to go between 1 and 3. Jaylen Daniels between 6 and 12. Penix and Nix between 15 and the end of the First Round. McCarthy is a wild card because we're not sure if he's returning to Michigan. A few mocks even have Carson Beck going at the end of the First Round but I totally disagree with that. If Beck comes out I see him as a 3rd rounder at best.
Dresden
RealGM
Posts: 14,396
And1: 6,723
Joined: Nov 02, 2017
       

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1468 » by Dresden » Tue Dec 5, 2023 9:58 pm

I would be plenty happy with Caleb/Maye and Bowers. I think Bowers might do as much for our passing game as anyone other than MHJ. Most mocks I've seen lately have him no higher than 10, so it's a very real likelihood he will be available at our pick. He's a faster, more athletic version of George Kittle with much better hands. He'll be a weapon if you have a good QB and good OC.

It will be interesting to see where Jayden Daniels winds up being pegged. I wonder if he will challenge either Maye or Caleb's for their spot. He's rising fast right now.
JockItch43
Analyst
Posts: 3,505
And1: 422
Joined: Jun 21, 2006

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1469 » by JockItch43 » Tue Dec 5, 2023 10:42 pm

Dresden wrote:Imagine if Fields did show a lot the rest of the year, and we ended up drafting MHJ and Bowers? You would have a receiving core of DJ, MHJ, Mooney, Scott, Kmet and Bowers.



Justin isn’t exactly known for being adept at spreading the ball around though. I’m all aboard the MHJ train, even if we keep Fields, but part of me wonders if adding him with Justin as our QB will minimize one of MHJ or Moore, let alone adding Bowers to the mix.
User avatar
ThisGuyFawkes
Analyst
Posts: 3,693
And1: 1,995
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Location: Where the sugar cane grows taller than the God we once believed in
   

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1470 » by ThisGuyFawkes » Tue Dec 5, 2023 10:52 pm

patryk7754 wrote:The thing with Williams (when compared to Fields) is that they have similar issues. Unless its a screen, Caleb tends to hold on to the ball for too long and doesn't make the reads quickly. Obviously, with fields being in the league for 3 years now, it's a bigger concern for him because you'd Williams would be a rookie- so that's something you'd expect. For me, I'm not sure if drafting Williams puts the team in a better position to win a superbowl when the trade off is getting 2/3 more top-tier skill players. I'd have to see how Fields plays for he rest of the season but its frustrating because the Getsy won't call real plays. He's in the evaluation stage, so call real plays and let him fail or succeed.

Ultimately, I have the feeling we'll move on from Fields and draft Williams. Best case scenario, he'll be Kyler Murray but a lot bigger and a little less loose (somewhere in between Russell Wilson and Murray).


I don't know if Williams holds on too long due to any fault of his. His WR's are legit terrible. If you watch any of the film breakdown on him, he usually has to scramble until a WR is open, but does a good job of keeping his eyes downfield and then makes the throw perfectly. He's also really great at changing his arm angle to throw around defenders and still puts the ball exactly where it needs to go.

These are things that Fields cannot do. If you gave William's arm talent to Fields, then you'd probably have the best QB in the history of the NFL (Field's pure running with Williams arm talent).

Now Williams did a ton of quick processing and throws when he had a better line and WR group last year when he won the Heisman. Watching his film, he looked very much like Mahomes did last night with a sub-par receiving group. It's almost uncanny.

Will Williams be an elite NFL QB? Who knows. It's such a crap shoot. I'll just say that I would feel comfortable picking him #1.
HearshotKDS
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,964
And1: 1,102
Joined: Apr 17, 2010
 

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1471 » by HearshotKDS » Tue Dec 5, 2023 11:01 pm

patryk7754 wrote:For me, I'm not sure if drafting Williams puts the team in a better position to win a superbowl when the trade off is getting 2/3 more top-tier skill players.

Imagine a package like LVR trading up giving Bears #11, #43, and hteir first next year, plus Maxx Crosby - that sounds crazy but its less draft value than what CAR gave up (to go along with a better vet) and the "bait" in '24 draft is much juicier than it was in '23. Then you have to "settle" for Nabers and Daniels/Nix/Penix while you start Crosby/FA/Billings/Sweat at DL.

Or even just NYG sending #6, their next years first, and Kayvon Thibodeaux.

You can do that for almost every team between 5-14, we'll never know what most/any of the offers on the table are but using the CAR trade last year even as a measuring stick there is almost certainly to be some crazy opportunity for very difficult but pragmatic decisions.

I dont think Poles has the stones do trade down twice and hitch his career to Fields year 4 w/ one of the 2nd tier QBs as a plan B (Williams being the top and Maye the somewhat distant bottom of tier 1).
Betta Bulleavit
General Manager
Posts: 7,788
And1: 2,895
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
       

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1472 » by Betta Bulleavit » Tue Dec 5, 2023 11:13 pm

mlitney01 wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:The thing with Williams (when compared to Fields) is that they have similar issues. Unless its a screen, Caleb tends to hold on to the ball for too long and doesn't make the reads quickly. Obviously, with fields being in the league for 3 years now, it's a bigger concern for him because you'd Williams would be a rookie- so that's something you'd expect. For me, I'm not sure if drafting Williams puts the team in a better position to win a superbowl when the trade off is getting 2/3 more top-tier skill players. I'd have to see how Fields plays for he rest of the season but its frustrating because the Getsy won't call real plays. He's in the evaluation stage, so call real plays and let him fail or succeed.

Ultimately, I have the feeling we'll move on from Fields and draft Williams. Best case scenario, he'll be Kyler Murray but a lot bigger and a little less loose (somewhere in between Russell Wilson and Murray).


I don't know if Williams holds on too long due to any fault of his. His WR's are legit terrible.


This is downright not true. USC is regarded as having one of the best WR groups in the country.

Furthermore, you talk about Fields’ arm talent when that’s probably one of the LAST things that you’ve gotta worry about with Fields. If you like Caleb, you like Caleb. Lots of people do. But let’s not cloud the picture with stuff that’s not true.
HearshotKDS
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,964
And1: 1,102
Joined: Apr 17, 2010
 

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1473 » by HearshotKDS » Tue Dec 5, 2023 11:32 pm

HoopsterJones
RealGM
Posts: 16,736
And1: 13,931
Joined: Feb 22, 2014

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1474 » by HoopsterJones » Tue Dec 5, 2023 11:47 pm



Mac Jones and Zach Wilson having a slightly higher PFF grade than Joe Burrow doesn’t instill much confidence in relying on it for a QB evaluation.
AKME got to go
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,185
And1: 37,438
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1475 » by fleet » Tue Dec 5, 2023 11:50 pm

I will assume the Bears are drafting Caleb Williams if the Bears hire EB. If anyone knows how to use Williams, it would be him

Read on Twitter
HoopsterJones
RealGM
Posts: 16,736
And1: 13,931
Joined: Feb 22, 2014

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1476 » by HoopsterJones » Tue Dec 5, 2023 11:55 pm

fleet wrote:I will assume the Bears are drafting Caleb Williams if the Bears hire EB. If anyone knows how to use Williams, it would be him

Read on Twitter


Bienemy has been passed over so many times, it makes me wonder why he never secured a HC job yet. Maybe he will be a great HC.
AKME got to go
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,185
And1: 37,438
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1477 » by fleet » Wed Dec 6, 2023 12:07 am

HoopsterJones wrote:
fleet wrote:I will assume the Bears are drafting Caleb Williams if the Bears hire EB. If anyone knows how to use Williams, it would be him

Read on Twitter


Bienemy has been passed over so many times, it makes me wonder why he never secured a HC job yet. Maybe he will be a great HC.

If he can lead the whole building is the question. George McCaskey seems like exact owner that would want the opportunity to be the team that gets him though.
User avatar
JohnnyKILLroy
RealGM
Posts: 12,477
And1: 4,663
Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Location: Fountain Valley- A nice place to live
       

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1478 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Wed Dec 6, 2023 12:12 am

The draft is almost 5 months away anyone claiming to know when QBs are going to get drafted is false that goes for any and all mock drafts. Draft values and QBs with any certainty from most people equals buyer beware.
What is happiness? It's a moment before you need more happiness.” — Don Draper
User avatar
ThisGuyFawkes
Analyst
Posts: 3,693
And1: 1,995
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Location: Where the sugar cane grows taller than the God we once believed in
   

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1479 » by ThisGuyFawkes » Wed Dec 6, 2023 1:17 am

Betta Bulleavit wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:The thing with Williams (when compared to Fields) is that they have similar issues. Unless its a screen, Caleb tends to hold on to the ball for too long and doesn't make the reads quickly. Obviously, with fields being in the league for 3 years now, it's a bigger concern for him because you'd Williams would be a rookie- so that's something you'd expect. For me, I'm not sure if drafting Williams puts the team in a better position to win a superbowl when the trade off is getting 2/3 more top-tier skill players. I'd have to see how Fields plays for he rest of the season but its frustrating because the Getsy won't call real plays. He's in the evaluation stage, so call real plays and let him fail or succeed.

Ultimately, I have the feeling we'll move on from Fields and draft Williams. Best case scenario, he'll be Kyler Murray but a lot bigger and a little less loose (somewhere in between Russell Wilson and Murray).


I don't know if Williams holds on too long due to any fault of his. His WR's are legit terrible.


This is downright not true. USC is regarded as having one of the best WR groups in the country.

Furthermore, you talk about Fields’ arm talent when that’s probably one of the LAST things that you’ve gotta worry about with Fields. If you like Caleb, you like Caleb. Lots of people do. But let’s not cloud the picture with stuff that’s not true.


I don't mean to be rude but you clearly haven't watched the film of none of his WR getting open on almost any play. And I like Justin but he can't do things with his arm that Caleb can. Anytime Justin changes his arm angle, he bops a lineman in the head with the ball. He also can't throw 60 yards with a flick of the wrist.

You could argue many things but arm talent really isn't close.
Betta Bulleavit
General Manager
Posts: 7,788
And1: 2,895
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
       

Re: Bears 2023 thread V 

Post#1480 » by Betta Bulleavit » Wed Dec 6, 2023 2:18 am

mlitney01 wrote:
Betta Bulleavit wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:
I don't know if Williams holds on too long due to any fault of his. His WR's are legit terrible.


This is downright not true. USC is regarded as having one of the best WR groups in the country.

Furthermore, you talk about Fields’ arm talent when that’s probably one of the LAST things that you’ve gotta worry about with Fields. If you like Caleb, you like Caleb. Lots of people do. But let’s not cloud the picture with stuff that’s not true.


I don't mean to be rude but you clearly haven't watched the film of none of his WR getting open on almost any play. And I like Justin but he can't do things with his arm that Caleb can. Anytime Justin changes his arm angle, he bops a lineman in the head with the ball. He also can't throw 60 yards with a flick of the wrist.

You could argue many things but arm talent really isn't close.

I’m not saying that Caleb Williams isn’t a great talent because he is. But you’re buying into the hype machine big time. I admit, I haven’t watched the kind of film you’re talking about. What I have watched is 14 of Caleb’s collegiate games (a couple going back to his OU days) and was EXTREMELY high on him at one point. And while I kinda still am, I feel like there are elements of his game that are played up for effect while downplaying other aspects that could be concerning. The bottom line is, when I watch him play, I can see him being criticized for all of the same things that Fields gets criticized now, just with a bit more diva to it. All things considered, I’d rather have MHJ with the first pick and taking one of the lower profile QBs with our pick.

Return to Chicago Bulls