NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

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Who is leading the race for MVP? (players listed in alphabetical order)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
50
17%
Luka Doncic
45
15%
Kevin Durant
1
0%
Anthony Edwards
3
1%
Joel Embiid
61
21%
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
41
14%
Tyrese Haliburton
8
3%
Nikola Jokic
64
22%
Jayson Tatum
7
2%
Other (Kawhi, Curry, Booker, Fox, Gobert, LeBron, AD, Etc.)
11
4%
 
Total votes: 291

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#101 » by eyeatoma » Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:20 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Embiid deseved the MVP last year, it's not an arithmetic equation and there can be more than one answer, Embiid, Jokuc and Giannis all had good case and you couldn't go wrong with any of them.
The problem was the ugliness with which many media members tried to force Jokic out of the race invoking race, but that's on the mefia not on Joel.


Embiid fueled the fire by acting dumb in these MVP campaign interviews by claiming he was the only one deserving and that he's being 'slighted' for some reason, that advanced stats are bs etc. It played into the hands of the media guys who invoked racial arguments. So it is on Joel too.
Heaven forbid he actually played well.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#102 » by eyeatoma » Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:22 pm

FinnTheHuman wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Embiid deseved the MVP last year, it's not an arithmetic equation and there can be more than one answer, Embiid, Jokuc and Giannis all had good case and you couldn't go wrong with any of them.
The problem was the ugliness with which many media members tried to force Jokic out of the race invoking race, but that's on the mefia not on Joel.


Embiid fueled the fire by acting dumb in these MVP campaign interviews by claiming he was the only one deserving and that he's being 'slighted' for some reason, that advanced stats are bs etc. It played into the hands of the media guys who invoked racial arguments. So it is on Joel too.
He answered questions honestly. If you've missed out 2 years in a row you'd answer the same way.

All he said was the goal posts keep changing which absolutely appeared to happen.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#103 » by losmi » Mon Dec 11, 2023 12:27 pm

This time, I won't argue who was more deserving last year, but I won't allow historical revisionism.

The odds shifted massively just ten games after the All-star break, and there's no explanation for that other than the orchestrated campaign we've all witnessed.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#104 » by FinnTheHuman » Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:34 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Embiid deseved the MVP last year, it's not an arithmetic equation and there can be more than one answer, Embiid, Jokuc and Giannis all had good case and you couldn't go wrong with any of them.
The problem was the ugliness with which many media members tried to force Jokic out of the race invoking race, but that's on the mefia not on Joel.


Embiid fueled the fire by acting dumb in these MVP campaign interviews by claiming he was the only one deserving and that he's being 'slighted' for some reason, that advanced stats are bs etc. It played into the hands of the media guys who invoked racial arguments. So it is on Joel too.
Heaven forbid he actually played well.

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It was intellectually dishonest. I'm not saying he didn't have a strong argument or that he wasn't amazing, but it's intellectually dishonest to say that you just don't understand how you're not in the driver's seat to win it, in the situation where Jokic was also playing out of his mind, and had around as much of an argument for the trophy as Embiid did. And he did that interview after Perk shouted "racism!".

He gave additional room to those who don't follow the discussion about the objective arguments for MVP but are Philly fans, or Embiid fan, and are leaning towards victim mentality and racism to say "yea, even Joel might be implying racism here, so it must be racism." Embiid had to deny Perk's racial argument in that same interview at least, to clear up that that's not what he was implying.

And you're again doing your thing with shifting to other talking points, ignoring the core argument I'm making, that what Embiid did with that interview was immature and wrong, and that he's showed close-mindedness and egocentric behaviour that was damaging on many occasions, in the post-series press conferences multiple times when Philly lost, in interviews regarding the MVP race etc.

This is also a polar opposite to Jokic's behaviour, who was the 1st to defend Embiid's last year's MVP win when the media tried to bait him into saying otherwise, after he won the championship. And it's why Embiid now feels comfortable to praise Jokic e.g. that he watches every game Jokic is playing, because it seems he finally realized how stupid he looks trying to promote himself as the better C, when Jokic is just gushing over everybody's game but his own in his interviews, saying stuff like the Nuggets are Murray's team etc, refusing to ever discuss where he sees himself in any ranking.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#105 » by PistolPeteJR » Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:32 pm

What’re our thoughts on the IST influencing voting? Specifically for AD, LeBron and Hali.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#106 » by Woodsanity » Mon Dec 11, 2023 5:11 pm

PistolPeteJR wrote:What’re our thoughts on the IST influencing voting? Specifically for AD, LeBron and Hali.

Well only AD played super fantastic but he is still behind Lebron overall this season.

Hali should move up to top 5 and Lebron should be top 10 MVP voting.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#107 » by CobraCommander » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:38 pm

The thread is wrong again...the national narrative if Jokic, then Embiid then Giannis, then Tatum then KD followed by Hali, SGA, Fox Luka and Booker- and AntMan then Lebron

After Jokic, Embiid and Giannis it’s anyone’s guess- Lebron could be 4 lol
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#108 » by losmi » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:09 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
Mavrelous wrote:Embiid deseved the MVP last year, it's not an arithmetic equation and there can be more than one answer, Embiid, Jokuc and Giannis all had good case and you couldn't go wrong with any of them.
The problem was the ugliness with which many media members tried to force Jokic out of the race invoking race, but that's on the mefia not on Joel.


Embiid fueled the fire by acting dumb in these MVP campaign interviews by claiming he was the only one deserving and that he's being 'slighted' for some reason, that advanced stats are bs etc. It played into the hands of the media guys who invoked racial arguments. So it is on Joel too.
He answered questions honestly. If you've missed out 2 years in a row you'd answer the same way.

All he said was the goal posts keep changing which absolutely appeared to happen.

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What goal posts were changing against Embiid? His fans keep saying that, but there is absolutely no basis for it.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#109 » by Woodsanity » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:41 pm

CobraCommander wrote:The thread is wrong again...the national narrative if Jokic, then Embiid then Giannis, then Tatum then KD followed by Hali, SGA, Fox Luka and Booker- and AntMan then Lebron

After Jokic, Embiid and Giannis it’s anyone’s guess- Lebron could be 4 lol

Tatum, KD, Fox, Booker and Ant man shouldn't be in the top 5 convo. Ant man isn't even the most valuable on his own team, Gobert is. T-wolves did well even with him out.

After Jokic, Embiid, Giannis it would be Luka, SGA, Hali or Lebron imo.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#110 » by dygaction » Mon Dec 11, 2023 8:54 pm

CobraCommander wrote:The thread is wrong again...the national narrative if Jokic, then Embiid then Giannis, then Tatum then KD followed by Hali, SGA, Fox Luka and Booker- and AntMan then Lebron

After Jokic, Embiid and Giannis it’s anyone’s guess- Lebron could be 4 lol


Your personal like/dislike does not dictate the thread right or wrong. The national narrative, if nba.com counts, has SGA/Luka tied at #3; have yet to find any betting sites have Luka out of top 3. With Mavs half rotations on the injury list, they may start Luka with two rookies and two league mins tonight in Luka/Dante Exum (Seth Curry?)/Derrick Jones Jr./Olivier-Maxence Prosper (Markieff Morris?)/Dereck Lively II. The team record may suffer and he may fall out of top 5, but not yet.

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-8-2023-edition
https://www.nj.com/betting/nba/mvp-odds.html
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#111 » by PistolPeteJR » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:03 pm

Woodsanity wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:What’re our thoughts on the IST influencing voting? Specifically for AD, LeBron and Hali.

Well only AD played super fantastic but he is still behind Lebron overall this season.

Hali should move up to top 5 and Lebron should be top 10 MVP voting.


Well I didn’t ask about the game I asked about the whole IST and its impact on voting.

That said, I don’t see how Hali can be in front of LeBron in the voting so far this year. Offensively, tremendous impact (more than LBJ), sure, but so is LeBron’s, who also has very solid defensive impact, more so than Hali. Unless you’re arguing something like 5th and 6th or something like that?
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#112 » by Woodsanity » Mon Dec 11, 2023 9:21 pm

PistolPeteJR wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:What’re our thoughts on the IST influencing voting? Specifically for AD, LeBron and Hali.

Well only AD played super fantastic but he is still behind Lebron overall this season.

Hali should move up to top 5 and Lebron should be top 10 MVP voting.


Well I didn’t ask about the game I asked about the whole IST and its impact on voting.

That said, I don’t see how Hali can be in front of LeBron in the voting so far this year. Offensively, tremendous impact (more than LBJ), sure, but so is LeBron’s, who also has very solid defensive impact, more so than Hali. Unless you’re arguing something like 5th and 6th or something like that?

Actually I would probably put Hali 6th/7th at most now that I think about it. Would not put him above Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka or SGA.

Lebron would be 6th or 7th as well.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#113 » by AleksandarN » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:25 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:The current mvp races bring out the worst in people. It’s never been this vitriol prior to Embiid and Jokic.

Maybe not the MVP race but the Kobe and Lebron debates on here were nasty at times.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#114 » by AleksandarN » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:30 pm

Big J wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Big J wrote:
Does Kendrick Perkins really have that much sway? He's Kendrick **** Perkins. Nobody cares what he says.


Sway is an interesting thing.

Just because no one thinks Perkins is capable of having an informed opinion of who is actually the most valuable player, doesn't mean he couldn't make white voters feel worried about being called racist. Perkins wasn't the only one who could have done this, and he couldn't do it by himself, but he is the talking head who got the ball rolling.

ftr, I'd say this is something of a stinging bee situation. Voters who switched away from Jokic went out record feeling like cowards after they watched Jokic lead his team to a title. Those voters then will likely be steadfast in the future, and if Perkins (or someone like him) says something similar in the future, it will mostly just polarize voters away from what he's arguing for.


Eh, it was probably more the case of voter fatigue and the fact that Jokic hadn't won a ring despite the 2 mvps. Maybe some voters felt betrayed by Jokic not winning one at that point after he'd been voted MVP twice.

Which was stupid given what Jokic has to deal with have his top 2 options out. It would have been a different story if Jokic failed to get past the second round with fully healthy roster the last two years prior to winning the chip.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#115 » by CobraCommander » Mon Dec 11, 2023 10:53 pm

dygaction wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:The thread is wrong again...the national narrative if Jokic, then Embiid then Giannis, then Tatum then KD followed by Hali, SGA, Fox Luka and Booker- and AntMan then Lebron

After Jokic, Embiid and Giannis it’s anyone’s guess- Lebron could be 4 lol


Your personal like/dislike does not dictate the thread right or wrong. The national narrative, if nba.com counts, has SGA/Luka tied at #3; have yet to find any betting sites have Luka out of top 3. With Mavs half rotations on the injury list, they may start Luka with two rookies and two league mins tonight in Luka/Dante Exum (Seth Curry?)/Derrick Jones Jr./Olivier-Maxence Prosper (Markieff Morris?)/Dereck Lively II. The team record may suffer and he may fall out of top 5, but not yet.

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-8-2023-edition
https://www.nj.com/betting/nba/mvp-odds.html

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not talking about me personally - I’m talking national narrative - like how big perk and co pushed Jokic out for Embiid...

In my mind the top 1 is Jokic with Luka, SGA, Giannis, Tatum, Embiid, Hali and KD fighting for second though what ever\


Let’s wager right now Luka ends up outside the top 3...this year. Luka either wins or he is 6th -

I would wager he has a better chance of winning then coming in 3rd because people either love him doing the same thing he has done every year and finally give him an MVP OR they give it to Jokic or it’s one of the new guys like Hali

This is Harden 2.0 where Luka hits the same insane stats year over year but people don’t reward him cause they think a few guys are just better players than him AND someone else has similar stats....

Eventually the players kinda rallied around harden...the players may do the same for Luka...but right now I don’t see it.

The stat about Lukas plus minus kinda troubling...a poster explained why if you have bad teammates your plus minus is even better...but either way


But you really think the voters gonna pick Luka over Giannis, Embiid or Jokic this year?
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#116 » by AleksandarN » Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:22 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=AquU5joqGJbYhaC0bkLLaw&s=19

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Hmm coming from a two faced player who attacked Jokic in that sham interview in April.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#117 » by dygaction » Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:57 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
dygaction wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:The thread is wrong again...the national narrative if Jokic, then Embiid then Giannis, then Tatum then KD followed by Hali, SGA, Fox Luka and Booker- and AntMan then Lebron

After Jokic, Embiid and Giannis it’s anyone’s guess- Lebron could be 4 lol


Your personal like/dislike does not dictate the thread right or wrong. The national narrative, if nba.com counts, has SGA/Luka tied at #3; have yet to find any betting sites have Luka out of top 3. With Mavs half rotations on the injury list, they may start Luka with two rookies and two league mins tonight in Luka/Dante Exum (Seth Curry?)/Derrick Jones Jr./Olivier-Maxence Prosper (Markieff Morris?)/Dereck Lively II. The team record may suffer and he may fall out of top 5, but not yet.

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-8-2023-edition
https://www.nj.com/betting/nba/mvp-odds.html

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not talking about me personally - I’m talking national narrative - like how big perk and co pushed Jokic out for Embiid...

In my mind the top 1 is Jokic with Luka, SGA, Giannis, Tatum, Embiid, Hali and KD fighting for second though what ever\


Let’s wager right now Luka ends up outside the top 3...this year. Luka either wins or he is 6th -

I would wager he has a better chance of winning then coming in 3rd because people either love him doing the same thing he has done every year and finally give him an MVP OR they give it to Jokic or it’s one of the new guys like Hali

This is Harden 2.0 where Luka hits the same insane stats year over year but people don’t reward him cause they think a few guys are just better players than him AND someone else has similar stats....

Eventually the players kinda rallied around harden...the players may do the same for Luka...but right now I don’t see it.

The stat about Lukas plus minus kinda troubling...a poster explained why if you have bad teammates your plus minus is even better...but either way


But you really think the voters gonna pick Luka over Giannis, Embiid or Jokic this year?


I don't think there is a narrative pushing or pro Luka yet, he will be flying under the radar unless Mavs become a real contender. His supporters tend to be on the silence side except Nick Wright as hard to argue for a person not making playoffs last year, but his 1st team all nba selection still shows his ability not being questioned.
There is no way Luka gets it if Mavs not getting top 4 seeding in the west. With current injury on the team and lack of size in front line, it wont' happen barring a major trade.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#118 » by Cubbies2120 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:15 am

AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=AquU5joqGJbYhaC0bkLLaw&s=19

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Hmm coming from a two faced player who attacked Jokic in that sham interview in April.

Image


People can change their views after being presented with new info, or in this case, just recognizing his play. He upped his scoring ability in the playoffs last year, and the year before. This isn't something new, he's just doing it in the regular season now.

I'll give credit to Embiid for that statement.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#119 » by eyeatoma » Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:16 am

AleksandarN wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=AquU5joqGJbYhaC0bkLLaw&s=19

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Hmm coming from a two faced player who attacked Jokic in that sham interview in April.

Image



There is nothing two faced about that. It is true, Jokic has tons of accomplishments, the pressure was on him to do something in the playoffs given that he had already won the MVP two times. You seriously act like Joker is your brother haha. Take things so personally.

Then everyone was saying Embiid needed to have the best record in the East.

All the while he had Ben Simmons out for the the whole season and got Harden the last month and a half.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued) 

Post#120 » by eyeatoma » Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:18 am

losmi wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
FinnTheHuman wrote:
Embiid fueled the fire by acting dumb in these MVP campaign interviews by claiming he was the only one deserving and that he's being 'slighted' for some reason, that advanced stats are bs etc. It played into the hands of the media guys who invoked racial arguments. So it is on Joel too.
He answered questions honestly. If you've missed out 2 years in a row you'd answer the same way.

All he said was the goal posts keep changing which absolutely appeared to happen.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk


What goal posts were changing against Embiid? His fans keep saying that, but there is absolutely no basis for it.


Team record being the biggest one. Awarding a 6th seed the MVP was surprising. Especially given that the Sixers were without Simmons for the entire season and Harden wasn't around till the last month and a half.

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