Anthony Edwards Thread: Part Two (Read First Post)

[winforlose]

I believe you need to play in at least 65 games to qualify for consideration on the All NBA teams which would qualify Ant for the Super Max extension. That's a TON of extra cash...and a much bigger bite of our Team Cap.

It does lead to some concerns about the thought process from both sides regarding decisions being made moving forward.

True, but there is another side to that. Let’s say Ant plays 5 game where he should not have (too sick or banged up.) Now let’s say he plays 68 total games including those 5. Those 5 count against his averages. So now he has 63 normal games (some good and some bad,) and 5 games with very few PPG, RPG, APG, and MPG. There are only 15 all NBA spots and they are position-less this year. If Ant tanks his averages he might miss it organically.

[Klomp]

I believe you need to play in at least 65 games to qualify for consideration on the All NBA teams which would qualify Ant for the Super Max extension. That's a TON of extra cash...and a much bigger bite of our Team Cap.

It does lead to some concerns about the thought process from both sides regarding decisions being made moving forward.

True, but there is another side to that. Let’s say Ant plays 5 game where he should not have (too sick or banged up.) Now let’s say he plays 68 total games including those 5. Those 5 count against his averages. So now he has 63 normal games (some good and some bad,) and 5 games with very few PPG, RPG, APG, and MPG. There are only 15 all NBA spots and they are position-less this year. If Ant tanks his averages he might miss it organically.

Five games won't tank anything.

[winforlose]

I believe you need to play in at least 65 games to qualify for consideration on the All NBA teams which would qualify Ant for the Super Max extension. That's a TON of extra cash...and a much bigger bite of our Team Cap.

It does lead to some concerns about the thought process from both sides regarding decisions being made moving forward.

True, but there is another side to that. Let’s say Ant plays 5 game where he should not have (too sick or banged up.) Now let’s say he plays 68 total games including those 5. Those 5 count against his averages. So now he has 63 normal games (some good and some bad,) and 5 games with very few PPG, RPG, APG, and MPG. There are only 15 all NBA spots and they are position-less this year. If Ant tanks his averages he might miss it organically.

Five games won't tank anything.

Easy numbers. Let’s say Ant plays 66 games and averages 25 points in 65 of the 66. 65 X 25 = 1625. In the 66th game he scored 0. So 1625/66 = 24.62. That is just from one game like he had against the Griz where he needed to leave early. Let’s be generous and give him 40 points in the other 4 he plays hurt. So now 25 x 63 = 1575. 1575 + 40 = 1615. 1615/68 = 23.75. 1.25 ppg might not sound like a lot, but when you are competing with the entire league, it makes a difference. The same effect is counting against his RPG, APG, and other metrics.

[KGdaBom]

I believe you need to play in at least 65 games to qualify for consideration on the All NBA teams which would qualify Ant for the Super Max extension. That's a TON of extra cash...and a much bigger bite of our Team Cap.

It does lead to some concerns about the thought process from both sides regarding decisions being made moving forward.

True, but there is another side to that. Let’s say Ant plays 5 game where he should not have (too sick or banged up.) Now let’s say he plays 68 total games including those 5. Those 5 count against his averages. So now he has 63 normal games (some good and some bad,) and 5 games with very few PPG, RPG, APG, and MPG. There are only 15 all NBA spots and they are position-less this year. If Ant tanks his averages he might miss it organically.

Five games won't tank anything.

It sure could.

[winforlose]

I don’t mean to take anything away from Ant with this post. But, given the now position-less all NBA spots, I just don’t think Ant is gonna get it. I mean Doncic, KD, Embiid, Joker, and Lebron all pretty much guaranteed. Then you have guys like Young, Fox, SGA, Giannis, Tatum who are all very likely to be there. I might get push back on this, but guys like Rudy, and JJJ who are defensive standouts probably deserve a couple of spots. The competition is soo tight, and the Wolves are loaded with talent (the best starting 5 in the NBA and a super deep bench.) I just don’t know that Ant can stand out enough compared to a Curry, or Butler who really make or break the team.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Ant won't run it for this year. Still not consistent enough. And also we will have Finch running for coach of the year, Naz for best 6 th men and Rudy best DPOY with all 3 real chances to win.

[frankenwolf]

I don’t mean to take anything away from Ant with this post. But, given the now position-less all NBA spots, I just don’t think Ant is gonna get it. I mean Doncic, KD, Embiid, Joker, and Lebron all pretty much guaranteed. Then you have guys like Young, Fox, SGA, Giannis, Tatum who are all very likely to be there. I might get push back on this, but guys like Rudy, and JJJ who are defensive standouts probably deserve a couple of spots. The competition is soo tight, and the Wolves are loaded with talent (the best starting 5 in the NBA and a super deep bench.) I just don’t know that Ant can stand out enough compared to a Curry, or Butler who really make or break the team.

I am really mixed on this. I would like Ant to get the recognition he deserves, but if he doesn't, it save the Wolves $$ and it puts another chip on Ant's shoulder. I'm sure, if he doesn't make it, that there will be talk about how he's a loudmouth and can't back it up. Just wait, world, Ant is coming!!

[winforlose]

I don’t mean to take anything away from Ant with this post. But, given the now position-less all NBA spots, I just don’t think Ant is gonna get it. I mean Doncic, KD, Embiid, Joker, and Lebron all pretty much guaranteed. Then you have guys like Young, Fox, SGA, Giannis, Tatum who are all very likely to be there. I might get push back on this, but guys like Rudy, and JJJ who are defensive standouts probably deserve a couple of spots. The competition is soo tight, and the Wolves are loaded with talent (the best starting 5 in the NBA and a super deep bench.) I just don’t know that Ant can stand out enough compared to a Curry, or Butler who really make or break the team.

I am really mixed on this. I would like Ant to get the recognition he deserves, but if he doesn't, it save the Wolves $$ and it puts another chip on Ant's shoulder. I'm sure, if he doesn't make it, that there will be talk about how he's a loudmouth and can't back it up. Just wait, world, Ant is coming!!

I was thinking about it last night. Ant goes 3-19 for 9 points. Yet we win on the road against Dallas. If Luka goes 3-19 they probably lose by 30 or more. When Curry is gone GSW falls apart. Same for Giannias or Lebron. The Wolves definitely miss Ant when he is gone, but we still have Karl, Rudy, and Mike to shoulder the load. Not to mention I could see MCD dramatically increasing his scoring with a greater offensive role (guy seems like a caged tiger ready to breakout.) I just don’t see us needing Ant the way other teams need their top guy. The if this is true, it is gonna make the case for Ant as MVP harder just as the case for All NBA gets that much harder. I mean it could happen, but this might be the toughest year ever.

P.S. if Karl scores almost as many points, on more efficient shooting, and has a ton of rebounds (averaging 9.1 per game,) then a strong argument will have to be made for him.

[TimberKat]

I don’t mean to take anything away from Ant with this post. But, given the now position-less all NBA spots, I just don’t think Ant is gonna get it. I mean Doncic, KD, Embiid, Joker, and Lebron all pretty much guaranteed. Then you have guys like Young, Fox, SGA, Giannis, Tatum who are all very likely to be there. I might get push back on this, but guys like Rudy, and JJJ who are defensive standouts probably deserve a couple of spots. The competition is soo tight, and the Wolves are loaded with talent (the best starting 5 in the NBA and a super deep bench.) I just don’t know that Ant can stand out enough compared to a Curry, or Butler who really make or break the team.

I am really mixed on this. I would like Ant to get the recognition he deserves, but if he doesn't, it save the Wolves $$ and it puts another chip on Ant's shoulder. I'm sure, if he doesn't make it, that there will be talk about how he's a loudmouth and can't back it up. Just wait, world, Ant is coming!!

I was thinking about it last night. Ant goes 3-19 for 9 points. Yet we win on the road against Dallas. If Luka goes 3-19 they probably lose by 30 or more. When Curry is gone GSW falls apart. Same for Giannias or Lebron. The Wolves definitely miss Ant when he is gone, but we still have Karl, Rudy, and Mike to shoulder the load. Not to mention I could see MCD dramatically increasing his scoring with a greater offensive role (guy seems like a caged tiger ready to breakout.) I just don’t see us needing Ant the way other teams need their top guy. The if this is true, it is gonna make the case for Ant as MVP harder just as the case for All NBA gets that much harder. I mean it could happen, but this might be the toughest year ever.

P.S. if Karl scores almost as many points, on more efficient shooting, and has a ton of rebounds (averaging 9.1 per game,) then a strong argument will have to be made for him.

I am not sure if we should look at it that way. I remember that one year Atlanta had 4 players made the all star game. If we keep up the wins, we will have at least 3 all stars. Looking at Celtics, both Brown and Tatum will be all NBA. I think Holiday and Zingis actually help their case. Celtics can also win without one of them. So, it's likely the wins and team support actually help Ant's chance. Instead of people complaining how he is a selfish players where scoring doesn't translate to wins

[winforlose]

I am really mixed on this. I would like Ant to get the recognition he deserves, but if he doesn't, it save the Wolves $$ and it puts another chip on Ant's shoulder. I'm sure, if he doesn't make it, that there will be talk about how he's a loudmouth and can't back it up. Just wait, world, Ant is coming!!

I was thinking about it last night. Ant goes 3-19 for 9 points. Yet we win on the road against Dallas. If Luka goes 3-19 they probably lose by 30 or more. When Curry is gone GSW falls apart. Same for Giannias or Lebron. The Wolves definitely miss Ant when he is gone, but we still have Karl, Rudy, and Mike to shoulder the load. Not to mention I could see MCD dramatically increasing his scoring with a greater offensive role (guy seems like a caged tiger ready to breakout.) I just don’t see us needing Ant the way other teams need their top guy. The if this is true, it is gonna make the case for Ant as MVP harder just as the case for All NBA gets that much harder. I mean it could happen, but this might be the toughest year ever.

P.S. if Karl scores almost as many points, on more efficient shooting, and has a ton of rebounds (averaging 9.1 per game,) then a strong argument will have to be made for him.

I am not sure if we should look at it that way. I remember that one year Atlanta had 4 players made the all star game. If we keep up the wins, we will have at least 3 all stars. Looking at Celtics, both Brown and Tatum will be all NBA. I think Holiday and Zingis actually help their case. Celtics can also win without one of them. So, it's likely the wins and team support actually help Ant's chance. Instead of people complaining how he is a selfish players where scoring doesn't translate to wins

All Star and All NBA are very different things. I listed at least 10 names that are probably guaranteed to be somewhere on the 15 list. Then we have the guys I didn’t mention, Kyrie, Harden, George, Leonard, KAT, Jamal Murray, Haliburton, Maxey, any of the big 4 for Cleveland could be there, AD could be there if healthy. The list just goes on. If you say that at least one or two high end defensive players also make that list like Rudy or JJJ, you just don’t have a lot of spots for a guy who is arguably not the most valuable player on the best team. KAT, Rudy, and Mike all have arguments for being as important or more important than Ant. I am not trying to say Ant sucks or Ant isn’t a rising star, I just don’t know that he gets one of those top 15.

[TimberKat]

I was thinking about it last night. Ant goes 3-19 for 9 points. Yet we win on the road against Dallas. If Luka goes 3-19 they probably lose by 30 or more. When Curry is gone GSW falls apart. Same for Giannias or Lebron. The Wolves definitely miss Ant when he is gone, but we still have Karl, Rudy, and Mike to shoulder the load. Not to mention I could see MCD dramatically increasing his scoring with a greater offensive role (guy seems like a caged tiger ready to breakout.) I just don’t see us needing Ant the way other teams need their top guy. The if this is true, it is gonna make the case for Ant as MVP harder just as the case for All NBA gets that much harder. I mean it could happen, but this might be the toughest year ever.

P.S. if Karl scores almost as many points, on more efficient shooting, and has a ton of rebounds (averaging 9.1 per game,) then a strong argument will have to be made for him.

I am not sure if we should look at it that way. I remember that one year Atlanta had 4 players made the all star game. If we keep up the wins, we will have at least 3 all stars. Looking at Celtics, both Brown and Tatum will be all NBA. I think Holiday and Zingis actually help their case. Celtics can also win without one of them. So, it's likely the wins and team support actually help Ant's chance. Instead of people complaining how he is a selfish players where scoring doesn't translate to wins

All Star and All NBA are very different things. I listed at least 10 names that are probably guaranteed to be somewhere on the 15 list. Then we have the guys I didn’t mention, Kyrie, Harden, George, Leonard, KAT, Jamal Murray, Haliburton, Maxey, any of the big 4 for Cleveland could be there, AD could be there if healthy. The list just goes on. If you say that at least one or two high end defensive players also make that list like Rudy or JJJ, you just don’t have a lot of spots for a guy who is arguably not the most valuable player on the best team. KAT, Rudy, and Mike all have arguments for being as important or more important than Ant. I am not trying to say Ant sucks or Ant isn’t a rising star, I just don’t know that he gets one of those top 15.

I do thing team success and making all star plays a big part in All NBA selections. I think Ant is ahead of Mitchell, Fox, and Curry right now because of that. Yes, not easy to get in as a guard.

[winforlose]

I am not sure if we should look at it that way. I remember that one year Atlanta had 4 players made the all star game. If we keep up the wins, we will have at least 3 all stars. Looking at Celtics, both Brown and Tatum will be all NBA. I think Holiday and Zingis actually help their case. Celtics can also win without one of them. So, it's likely the wins and team support actually help Ant's chance. Instead of people complaining how he is a selfish players where scoring doesn't translate to wins

All Star and All NBA are very different things. I listed at least 10 names that are probably guaranteed to be somewhere on the 15 list. Then we have the guys I didn’t mention, Kyrie, Harden, George, Leonard, KAT, Jamal Murray, Haliburton, Maxey, any of the big 4 for Cleveland could be there, AD could be there if healthy. The list just goes on. If you say that at least one or two high end defensive players also make that list like Rudy or JJJ, you just don’t have a lot of spots for a guy who is arguably not the most valuable player on the best team. KAT, Rudy, and Mike all have arguments for being as important or more important than Ant. I am not trying to say Ant sucks or Ant isn’t a rising star, I just don’t know that he gets one of those top 15.

I do thing team success and making all star plays a big part in All NBA selections. I think Ant is ahead of Mitchell, Fox, and Curry right now because of that. Yes, not easy to get in as a guard.

Mitchell and Fox maybe, but how do they leave Curry out? He is basically their whole team. I just cannot see Steph Curry not being all NBA, not unless he is disqualified by missing to many games.

[Klomp]

True, but there is another side to that. Let’s say Ant plays 5 game where he should not have (too sick or banged up.) Now let’s say he plays 68 total games including those 5. Those 5 count against his averages. So now he has 63 normal games (some good and some bad,) and 5 games with very few PPG, RPG, APG, and MPG. There are only 15 all NBA spots and they are position-less this year. If Ant tanks his averages he might miss it organically.

Five games won't tank anything.

Easy numbers. Let’s say Ant plays 66 games and averages 25 points in 65 of the 66. 65 X 25 = 1625. In the 66th game he scored 0. So 1625/66 = 24.62. That is just from one game like he had against the Griz where he needed to leave early. Let’s be generous and give him 40 points in the other 4 he plays hurt. So now 25 x 63 = 1575. 1575 + 40 = 1615. 1615/68 = 23.75. 1.25 ppg might not sound like a lot, but when you are competing with the entire league, it makes a difference. The same effect is counting against his RPG, APG, and other metrics.

So by some opinions, Ant shouldn't have played last night. Yes, his scoring average and shooting efficiency took a hit. But I think we as Wolves fans are still used to the Wiggins era and think that's where it ends. But 11 assists were a major boon to his average and had an effect on the outcome of the game. Take him out, and I think we probably lose last night.

[winforlose]

Five games won't tank anything.

Easy numbers. Let’s say Ant plays 66 games and averages 25 points in 65 of the 66. 65 X 25 = 1625. In the 66th game he scored 0. So 1625/66 = 24.62. That is just from one game like he had against the Griz where he needed to leave early. Let’s be generous and give him 40 points in the other 4 he plays hurt. So now 25 x 63 = 1575. 1575 + 40 = 1615. 1615/68 = 23.75. 1.25 ppg might not sound like a lot, but when you are competing with the entire league, it makes a difference. The same effect is counting against his RPG, APG, and other metrics.

So by some opinions, Ant shouldn't have played last night. Yes, his scoring average and shooting efficiency took a hit. But I think we as Wolves fans are still used to the Wiggins era and think that's where it ends. But 11 assists were a major boon to his average and had an effect on the outcome of the game. Take him out, and I think we probably lose last night.

He shot 19 shots and had 5 turnovers. 3/19 for 9 points is just plain bad. Like at some point pass the ball and stop chucking bad. You think Ant won the game because he got 11 dimes, but the counter argument is guys shot very well last night and would have hit the shot from a Conley or KAT pass. I am not saying he didn’t contribute, but his first half defense washes his second half defense and his shooting more than washes his assists. Ant was neutral at best and that was mainly do to his offensive gravity. His plus minus was high because he shared the floor with guys making their shots.

[Klomp]

Easy numbers. Let’s say Ant plays 66 games and averages 25 points in 65 of the 66. 65 X 25 = 1625. In the 66th game he scored 0. So 1625/66 = 24.62. That is just from one game like he had against the Griz where he needed to leave early. Let’s be generous and give him 40 points in the other 4 he plays hurt. So now 25 x 63 = 1575. 1575 + 40 = 1615. 1615/68 = 23.75. 1.25 ppg might not sound like a lot, but when you are competing with the entire league, it makes a difference. The same effect is counting against his RPG, APG, and other metrics.

So by some opinions, Ant shouldn't have played last night. Yes, his scoring average and shooting efficiency took a hit. But I think we as Wolves fans are still used to the Wiggins era and think that's where it ends. But 11 assists were a major boon to his average and had an effect on the outcome of the game. Take him out, and I think we probably lose last night.

He shot 19 shots and had 5 turnovers. 3/19 for 9 points is just plain bad. Like at some point pass the ball and stop chucking bad. You think Ant won the game because he got 11 dimes, but the counter argument is guys shot very well last night and would have hit the shot from a Conley or KAT pass. I am not saying he didn’t contribute, but his first half defense washes his second half defense and his shooting more than washes his assists. Ant was neutral at best and that was mainly do to his offensive gravity. His plus minus was high because he shared the floor with guys making their shots.

The second bolded phrase is why the first bolded phrase isn't true.

Ant brings a kind of offensive gravity that no one else on the team brings to the perimeter. His gravity is what gave his teammates such open looks.

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

So by some opinions, Ant shouldn't have played last night. Yes, his scoring average and shooting efficiency took a hit. But I think we as Wolves fans are still used to the Wiggins era and think that's where it ends. But 11 assists were a major boon to his average and had an effect on the outcome of the game. Take him out, and I think we probably lose last night.

He shot 19 shots and had 5 turnovers. 3/19 for 9 points is just plain bad. Like at some point pass the ball and stop chucking bad. You think Ant won the game because he got 11 dimes, but the counter argument is guys shot very well last night and would have hit the shot from a Conley or KAT pass. I am not saying he didn’t contribute, but his first half defense washes his second half defense and his shooting more than washes his assists. Ant was neutral at best and that was mainly do to his offensive gravity. His plus minus was high because he shared the floor with guys making their shots.

The second bolded phrase is why the first bolded phrase isn't true.

Ant brings a kind of offensive gravity that no one else on the team brings to the perimeter. His gravity is what gave his teammates such open looks.

Read on Twitter

I acknowledge the gravity is real. But KAT has it too. As for the open looks, they were there all 5 games Ant missed, barely played or played injured. Teams are daring NAW, TBJ, Naz, and even to a degree Mike (still don’t understand that one personally,) to beat them from deep. In addition to KAT, Gobert has a significant offensive gravity as well. I am not much of an advanced metrics guy, but if you look up how open are shooters generally are, you will see not much changes when Ant is off the floor as it pertains to the second unit. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, 5 turnovers is a lot. When Karl has 5 or 6 we call it a bad game. Worse, most of Ant’s turnovers tend to be live ball, whereas Karl’s are on passes that go out of bounds. I think Dane has been wrong for weeks saying we lack offensive power, and his justification for that is using numbers that include KAT’s five bad games to start the season and the games where Mike was shooting less.

I guess a better question is how many of those 19 shots go in if they are shot by someone other than Ant. How many of those assists still happen if someone else shoots them. To say Ant was worth the entire margin of victory suggests his value over replacement is insane, and I just cannot agree with that.

Edit to add: I missed part of a sentence above. Whereas Karl’s are on passes that go out of bounds, or offensive fouls.

[KGdaBom]

He shot 19 shots and had 5 turnovers. 3/19 for 9 points is just plain bad. Like at some point pass the ball and stop chucking bad. You think Ant won the game because he got 11 dimes, but the counter argument is guys shot very well last night and would have hit the shot from a Conley or KAT pass. I am not saying he didn’t contribute, but his first half defense washes his second half defense and his shooting more than washes his assists. Ant was neutral at best and that was mainly do to his offensive gravity. His plus minus was high because he shared the floor with guys making their shots.

The second bolded phrase is why the first bolded phrase isn't true.

Ant brings a kind of offensive gravity that no one else on the team brings to the perimeter. His gravity is what gave his teammates such open looks.

Read on Twitter

I acknowledge the gravity is real. But KAT has it too. As for the open looks, they were there all 5 games Ant missed, barely played or played injured. Teams are daring NAW, TBJ, Naz, and even to a degree Mike (still don’t understand that one personally,) to beat them from deep. In addition to KAT, Gobert has a significant offensive gravity as well. I am not much of an advanced metrics guy, but if you look up how open are shooters generally are, you will see not much changes when Ant is off the floor as it pertains to the second unit. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, 5 turnovers is a lot. When Karl has 5 or 6 we call it a bad game. Worse, most of Ant’s turnovers tend to be live ball, whereas Karl’s are on passes that go out of bounds. I think Dane has been wrong for weeks saying we lack offensive power, and his justification for that is using numbers that include KAT’s five bad games to start the season and the games where Mike was shooting less.

I guess a better question is how many of those 19 shots go in if they are shot by someone other than Ant. How many of those assists still happen if someone else shoots them. To say Ant was worth the entire margin of victory suggests his value over replacement is insane, and I just cannot agree with that.

You both make some good points, but in the end I have to side with W&L's final point.

[life_saver]

Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Curry, KD, Luka, Tatum, SGA seem to be mostly locked for All-NBA at this rate unless they suffer any significant injuries. Then you have Lebron, AD, Haliburton, Booker, Jimmy, Kawhi who also have good chance of making it. Outside this, Ant would need to compete with likes of Fox, Gobert, KAT, Mikal Bridges, Bam etc for the remaining 1-2 spots. Its not gonna be easy.

[younggunsmn]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39141079/anthony-edwards-walks-back-heat-moment-abortion-remark

I know this is the world we live in now, and this is common with pro athletes, but this makes me sad.
That's all I'll say on the matter lest it devolve into politics.

[Colbinii]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39141079/anthony-edwards-walks-back-heat-moment-abortion-remark

I know this is the world we live in now, and this is common with pro athletes, but this makes me sad.
That's all I'll say on the matter lest it devolve into politics.

It makes you sad that ANT made the comments in the first place?