NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

CobraCommander · Post #861 » by **CobraCommander** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:12 pm

yannisk wrote:Embiid comfortably ahead in the mvp race. Of course most of the season is still to be played

we have to stop this "he sat many fourth quarters" though. He plays 34 minutes per game which is normal in this time and age, and he has barely exceeded once in his career

He sitting in the 4th cause they blowing you out getting blown out - smart - play as little as you can and try to be healthy when the PO start

LordCovington33 · Post #862 » by **LordCovington33** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:16 pm

RB34 wrote:
CD_41 wrote:Even tough the narrative is not in his favour ("Jokic should´ve won last year" etc.) his playing level and overall team record puts Embiid comfortably at No. 1. The season still has a long way to go, but for now he is the MVP.

What does team record have to do with it? Philly is a 3 seed in the East while having the easiest schedule.

Jokic stans last year would agree that team record is not important. What’s important, according to them, is the number of wins for the individual player, which currently stands at 18-10 for Jokic and 19-5 for Embiid.

iggymcfrack · Post #863 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:16 pm

bigboi wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
bigboi wrote:

Keep using made up junk stats. Good thing the voters don’t even take those stats in consideration when voting. It’s not complicated, Embiid is MVP rn

These "junk" stats are created by minds who are far superior to anyone on RealGM. We're all the equivalent of braindead morons compared to inventors of EPM/BPM/etc. So excuse me for choosing not to settle on some random RealGM posters "eye test" opinions as the de facto "truth". Voters most certainly do take these stats into consideration when voting btw. Do you just love being wrong and seeming so certain of your answers in the process?

I’m not taking any of your opinions seriously. You have ZERO objective analysis and 90% of your posts in this thread have been Jokic fan club posts. Unless we’re talking the real, don’t want to hear it.

Embiid is the clear MVP as of now and anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial. None of the voters are taking BPM or SOS into consideration when voting for MVP so it’s not even worth mentioning. We just had posters say “Embiid can only abuse weak teams and dude came out and took a steaming crap on the best defense in the league”. It’s hilarious. Keep supporting Jokic tho

I just changed my vote to Embiid and he deserves the benefit of the doubt with the heater he's on, but chiiiiiiiill acting like it's not close. The Thunder have been better with SGA on the floor than the Sixers have with Embiid even though when neither guy's playing, the Sixers are 13.2 points better. SGA's also missed a third as many games. Jokic leads the league in BPM, has an on/off 10 points better than Embiid, and has also missed a third as many games. The MVP race is the closest it's ever been right now. Three guys have incredible cases and a lot of guys are close enough to be in the hunt.

Embiid stans are like the kid who's lost to his little brother over and over and over and over and when he finally gets up one point, he starts screaming and trash talking about how he's unstoppable and he'll never lose again. This is nothing like last year when Jokic was winning every metric by a massive margin when you got the stolen MVP. You just barely got a legitimate lead, enjoy it.

HoopsterJones · Post #864 » by **HoopsterJones** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:19 pm

My current order:

1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. SGA
4. Doncic
5. Giannis

DaGawd · Post #865 » by **DaGawd** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:21 pm

LordCovington33 wrote:
DaGawd wrote:meh who cares

Then why are you here? In an MVP thread of all places?

it was another separate embiid thread before it got merged

iggymcfrack · Post #866 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:29 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Embiid dominates the 1st MVP ESPN strawpoll by Tim Bontemps...

Read on Twitter
?t=Z4UDAl_LAcDrWI9vlaCnLA&s=19

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39154933/nba-mvp-straw-poll-100-league-insiders-where-embiid-giannis-jokic-lebron-race

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Look we all objectively see the top 3 guys as Embiid Giannis and Jokic-

But I need to see the names of the guys that voted either Embiid or Jokic 4th…. At worse Embiid and jokic are in 3rd… at WORSE- this is crazy

SGA's clearly been one of the best 3 players this year and he's closer to 1st than 4th. The shocking thing is how many casuals are voting in this thing who don't even have him in the top 4.

Embiid: 10.8 EPM, 12.6 BPM, +7.0 on/off
SGA: 10.0 EPM, 10.8 BPM, +20.4 on/off
Jokic: 7.8 EPM, 14.0 BPM, +17.4 on/off
Giannis: 7.0 EPM, 7.2 BPM, +7.8 on/off

One of these things is not like the others and it's not Shai.

bigboi · Post #867 » by **bigboi** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:30 pm

LordCovington33 wrote:
RB34 wrote:
CD_41 wrote:Even tough the narrative is not in his favour ("Jokic should´ve won last year" etc.) his playing level and overall team record puts Embiid comfortably at No. 1. The season still has a long way to go, but for now he is the MVP.

What does team record have to do with it? Philly is a 3 seed in the East while having the easiest schedule.

Jokic stans last year would agree that team record is not important. What’s important, according to them, is the number of wins for the individual player, which currently stands at 18-10 for Jokic and 19-5 for Embiid.

I forgot about this argument too. Wow, that’s crazy lmao. They did say this

bigboi · Post #868 » by **bigboi** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:31 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
These "junk" stats are created by minds who are far superior to anyone on RealGM. We're all the equivalent of braindead morons compared to inventors of EPM/BPM/etc. So excuse me for choosing not to settle on some random RealGM posters "eye test" opinions as the de facto "truth". Voters most certainly do take these stats into consideration when voting btw. Do you just love being wrong and seeming so certain of your answers in the process?

I’m not taking any of your opinions seriously. You have ZERO objective analysis and 90% of your posts in this thread have been Jokic fan club posts. Unless we’re talking the real, don’t want to hear it.

Embiid is the clear MVP as of now and anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial. None of the voters are taking BPM or SOS into consideration when voting for MVP so it’s not even worth mentioning. We just had posters say “Embiid can only abuse weak teams and dude came out and took a steaming crap on the best defense in the league”. It’s hilarious. Keep supporting Jokic tho

I just changed my vote to Embiid and he deserves the benefit of the doubt with the heater he's on, but chiiiiiiiill acting like it's not close. The Thunder have been better with SGA on the floor than the Sixers have with Embiid even though when neither guy's playing, the Sixers are 13.2 points better. SGA's also missed a third as many games. Jokic leads the league in BPM, has an on/off 10 points better than Embiid, and has also missed a third as many games. The MVP race is the closest it's ever been right now. Three guys have incredible cases and a lot of guys are close enough to be in the hunt.

Embiid stans are like the kid who's lost to his little brother over and over and over and over and when he finally gets up one point, he starts screaming and trash talking about how he's unstoppable and he'll never lose again. This is nothing like last year when Jokic was winning every metric by a massive margin when you got the stolen MVP. You just barely got a legitimate lead, enjoy it.

I never said it wasn’t close. I said he’s the clear MVP right now. And no, I’m not an Embiid stan. I’ve had Giannis as MVP and before that, I had Jokic earlier in the season. Preseason, I predicted Tatum. You tried it tho. Talking about “you”, neither of us are playing on the court, tf are you talking about.

Again, this thread has become a glorified Jokic fan club rather than objective analysis. Keep on bringing up last year. Jokic lost, fair and square. Stop crying about it.

CobraCommander · Post #869 » by **CobraCommander** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:32 pm

HoopsterJones wrote:My current order:

1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. SGA
4. Doncic
5. Giannis

My current order:

1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. Embiid
4. SGA, Luka, Tatum, Fox, Hali, KD , Steph, Lebron, (day dependent)

But it’s really Embiid at 1 right now - even tho I think jokic and Giannis still better. - I think the true “big two” trying to win games with their rosters thinking big picture -
Embiid getting them stats in bunches AND winning

bigboi · Post #870 » by **bigboi** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:35 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Embiid dominates the 1st MVP ESPN strawpoll by Tim Bontemps...

Read on Twitter
?t=Z4UDAl_LAcDrWI9vlaCnLA&s=19

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/39154933/nba-mvp-straw-poll-100-league-insiders-where-embiid-giannis-jokic-lebron-race

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Look we all objectively see the top 3 guys as Embiid Giannis and Jokic-

But I need to see the names of the guys that voted either Embiid or Jokic 4th…. At worse Embiid and jokic are in 3rd… at WORSE- this is crazy

SGA's clearly been one of the best 3 players this year and he's closer to 1st than 4th. The shocking thing is how many casuals are voting in this thing who don't even have him in the top 4.

Embiid: 10.8 EPM, 12.6 BPM, +7.0 on/off
SGA: 10.0 EPM, 10.8 BPM, +20.4 on/off
Jokic: 7.8 EPM, 14.0 BPM, +17.4 on/off
Giannis: 7.0 EPM, 7.2 BPM, +7.8 on/off

One of these things is not like the others and it's not Shai.

Lmao, more useless stats that no one cares about. Go tell any NBA player or NBA executive that you think SGA is better than Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid. You will get laughed out the room.

Savage_Mode · Post #871 » by **Savage_Mode** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:39 pm

The best part of Embiid’s hot start and these straw man results is we don’t have to listen to the Jokic meat riders in the media blab on about analytics.

bebopdeluxe · Post #872 » by **bebopdeluxe** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:40 pm

Gatorade Sax wrote:Said it a few days ago, and I’ll say it again. If you haven’t got Embiid leading right now, you are playing some amazing mental gymnastics.

This is the RealGM GB - home of the Embiid haters. Stay a while.

CobraCommander · Post #873 » by **CobraCommander** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:41 pm

bigboi wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:Look we all objectively see the top 3 guys as Embiid Giannis and Jokic-

But I need to see the names of the guys that voted either Embiid or Jokic 4th…. At worse Embiid and jokic are in 3rd… at WORSE- this is crazy

SGA's clearly been one of the best 3 players this year and he's closer to 1st than 4th. The shocking thing is how many casuals are voting in this thing who don't even have him in the top 4.

Embiid: 10.8 EPM, 12.6 BPM, +7.0 on/off
SGA: 10.0 EPM, 10.8 BPM, +20.4 on/off
Jokic: 7.8 EPM, 14.0 BPM, +17.4 on/off
Giannis: 7.0 EPM, 7.2 BPM, +7.8 on/off

One of these things is not like the others and it's not Shai.

Lmao, more useless stats that no one cares about. Go tell any NBA player or NBA executive that you think SGA is better than Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid. You will get laughed out the room.

Sga is coming but he ain’t there…

I’m just saying who the hell got Embiid or Jokic 4th!!!!

I could see Giannis being 4th THIS year (not as a player overall considering Giannis is trying to help integrate Dame) with someone seeing SGA as 3rd but not Embiid or Jokic

HoopsterJones · Post #874 » by **HoopsterJones** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:42 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:My current order:

1. Embiid
2. Jokic
3. SGA
4. Doncic
5. Giannis

My current order:

1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. Embiid
4. SGA, Luka, Tatum, Fox, Hali, KD , Steph, Lebron, (day dependent)

But it’s really Embiid at 1 right now - even tho I think jokic and Giannis still better. - I think the true “big two” trying to win games with their rosters thinking big picture -
Embiid getting them stats in bunches AND winning

I can agree with this.

bigboi · Post #875 » by **bigboi** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:44 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
bigboi wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
SGA's clearly been one of the best 3 players this year and he's closer to 1st than 4th. The shocking thing is how many casuals are voting in this thing who don't even have him in the top 4.

Embiid: 10.8 EPM, 12.6 BPM, +7.0 on/off
SGA: 10.0 EPM, 10.8 BPM, +20.4 on/off
Jokic: 7.8 EPM, 14.0 BPM, +17.4 on/off
Giannis: 7.0 EPM, 7.2 BPM, +7.8 on/off

One of these things is not like the others and it's not Shai.

Lmao, more useless stats that no one cares about. Go tell any NBA player or NBA executive that you think SGA is better than Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid. You will get laughed out the room.

Sga is coming but he ain’t there…

I’m just saying who the hell got Embiid or Jokic 4th!!!!

I could see Giannis being 4th THIS year (not as a player overall considering Giannis is trying to help integrate Dame) with someone seeing SGA as 3rd but not Embiid or Jokic

I have Giannis over everyone this year. I think Giannis is clearly the best player in basketball but Embiid is MVP clearly for time being. SGA is simply not on the level of Giannis, Jokic, Embiid although hes a beast

iggymcfrack · Post #876 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:55 pm

bigboi wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Lmao, more useless stats that no one cares about. Go tell any NBA player or NBA executive that you think SGA is better than Giannis, Jokic, and Embiid. You will get laughed out the room.

Sga is coming but he ain’t there…

I’m just saying who the hell got Embiid or Jokic 4th!!!!

I could see Giannis being 4th THIS year (not as a player overall considering Giannis is trying to help integrate Dame) with someone seeing SGA as 3rd but not Embiid or Jokic

I have Giannis over everyone this year. I think Giannis is clearly the best player in basketball but Embiid is MVP clearly for time being. SGA is simply not on the level of Giannis, Jokic, Embiid although hes a beast

Shai's scoring more PPG than Giannis on half the turnovers. He leads the league in steals by such a large margin that the difference between 1st and 2nd is the same as the difference between 2nd and 127th. He has more assists than Giannis or Embiid. He leads all PG in blocks. His team has played better with him on the floor than any of the other teams have played with their star. He has the best on/off of any of the MVP candidates. If you think there's anyone who's level he's "not on" this season, you haven't been paying enough attention. There's no other explanation.

JN61 · Post #877 » by **JN61** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:59 pm

Easily Embiid as of now. I don't think anyone else is really even close. Around start of December in my opinion was the first time to about this subject after ~ 1/4th of season is done. Embiid has been putting up the work and they haven't missed a beat. Jokic down year all across the board. Giannis is looking great but I can't value him as high considering his supporting cast but he is definitely 2nd as of now. I don't think Jokic is top 3. Maybe not even top 5.

iggymcfrack · Post #878 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:03 pm

Here's my tier list:

Tier 1: Embiid, Jokic, SGA
These are the frontrunners and they're in a virtual tie. I jumped Embiid from 3rd to 1st on the basis of his last game although I might be guilty of being prisoner of the moment a bit. Objectively, SGA probably still has a slightly better case.

Tier 1.5: Giannis
He's played on the same level as the other top guys for 19 games now, but he was also hot garbage for the first 7 so he's far behind them for any measurables.

Tier 2: Haliburton, LeBron
These are the guys who are carrying weak supporting casts much further than they deserve, but not far enough to be confident they'll be out of the play-in.

Tier 3: Luka, Durant, Steph
This group is for guys on the fringe of the conversation who have put up good numbers that might merit more serious consideration in another year, but have either struggled to pick up wins or show impact.

iggymcfrack · Post #879 » by **iggymcfrack** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:13 pm

JN61 wrote:Easily Embiid as of now. I don't think anyone else is really even close. Around start of December in my opinion was the first time to about this subject after ~ 1/4th of season is done. Embiid has been putting up the work and they haven't missed a beat. Jokic down year all across the board. Giannis is looking great but I can't value him as high considering his supporting cast but he is definitely 2nd as of now. I don't think Jokic is top 3. Maybe not even top 5.

Jokic literally has the highest BPM of all-time this season, he's missed one game the entire year, and he has an on/off of +17.4 compared to +7.0 for Embiid. If you want to put Embiid higher due to this hot run he's had, I'm 100% fine with it, but if you say Jokic "isn't top 3 and maybe not even top 5", you either have no idea what you're talking about or you're trolling. He's still having a historic season.

Cubbies2120 · Post #880 » by **Cubbies2120** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:13 pm

bigboi wrote:
LordCovington33 wrote:
RB34 wrote:
What does team record have to do with it? Philly is a 3 seed in the East while having the easiest schedule.

Jokic stans last year would agree that team record is not important. What’s important, according to them, is the number of wins for the individual player, which currently stands at 18-10 for Jokic and 19-5 for Embiid.

I forgot about this argument too. Wow, that’s crazy lmao. They did say this

Can I get you on the record (pun intended) for saying that individual record DOES matter? So I can quote you at end of year when you don't get the Pistons/Wizards/Hornets streak?

Who is leading the race for MVP? (players listed in alphabetical order)