Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[Klomp]

I struggle with that. POBOs and GMs always look out for themselves before the team. A 32-33 year old Rudy on a player option or expiring is a very different value proposition. I don’t know what we get back for him, but it is much less then we sent out. We also are unlikely to send Karl back to the 5 after he killed it at the 4. So now you are talking about a big for big swap with serious compensation coming back. I just don’t see it. If anything, we try and convince Rudy to resign with us at a discount so that we keep the continuity with Ant and Jaden and move on from KAT because unlike Rudy at that point KAT will be a supermax for 2 more years. KAT being younger than Rudy, better established in the league (than he currently is,) with one or more rings and still relatively young, will make him much more valuable.

I get it. Here's a few comments in response.

1. I view part of the "return" we got from the original trade being the culture shift and defensive identity and transformation to a contender. The goal was to give the young guys a winning environment, not necessarily to add a defensive big and permanently alter the roster blueprint.
2. Towns already plays the 5 when Rudy is off the floor. He's not exclusively a 4. I think the team knows how to use Karl better now and knows how to get through to him. It also means it doesn't have to necessarily be a big-for-big swap.
3. You're talking about Karl's trade value, but he also will bring that same value by staying here. He's still in his prime.
4. I envision the interior rotation of the next "timeline" being Towns, Reid and Miller.

[KGdaBom]

I also wanted to mention that, aside from KG, there has probably no player besides Towns that more deserves a chance for team success here.

KAT has been extremely loyal to the organization. You have never heard him even whisper about wanting a trade, and he’s never pressured the organization to make moves using that threat. Local media, even those that seem to dislike Towns, talk about their respect for him for always coming out after a tough loss (and he’s seen many), and being the first to accept blame. He never says a negative word about other players or the organization - even when Jimmy was publicly trashing him. We have talked about his willingness to defer to help Ant and Rudy, because it helps the team.


This year is Towns’ best. He has drastically reduced his personal basketball limitations, and the team has benefited. I still think he has been MIN’s best two-way player, even when the national media glorifies Ant and Rudy.

I think Durant would improve our chances of winning a ring, and that is the goal. At the same time, I want to be proud of the organization, and I think trading Towns now would be doing him dirty.

Well stated.

I actually think that if there's another big move coming in the nearish future (1-2 years), it's going to be Rudy. He's reinvigorated his value enough to a point where a 1+1 contract (or eventually, an all-defensive/DPOY expiring) can bring back a nice piece from a franchise that wants to take a step. I also think we now see that Towns can be a useful building block here if used properly, and isn't as negative as we once thought.

I never thought he or Rudy was negative.

[winforlose]

I struggle with that. POBOs and GMs always look out for themselves before the team. A 32-33 year old Rudy on a player option or expiring is a very different value proposition. I don’t know what we get back for him, but it is much less then we sent out. We also are unlikely to send Karl back to the 5 after he killed it at the 4. So now you are talking about a big for big swap with serious compensation coming back. I just don’t see it. If anything, we try and convince Rudy to resign with us at a discount so that we keep the continuity with Ant and Jaden and move on from KAT because unlike Rudy at that point KAT will be a supermax for 2 more years. KAT being younger than Rudy, better established in the league (than he currently is,) with one or more rings and still relatively young, will make him much more valuable.

I get it. Here's a few comments in response.

1. I view part of the "return" we got from the original trade being the culture shift and defensive identity and transformation to a contender. The goal was to give the young guys a winning environment, not necessarily to add a defensive big and permanently alter the roster blueprint.
2. Towns already plays the 5 when Rudy is off the floor. He's not exclusively a 4. I think the team knows how to use Karl better now and knows how to get through to him. It also means it doesn't have to necessarily be a big-for-big swap.
3. You're talking about Karl's trade value, but he also will bring that same value by staying here. He's still in his prime.
4. I envision the interior rotation of the next "timeline" being Towns, Reid and Miller.

I could give some long winded and well reasoned argument for KAT not Rudy, but there are too many variables. Health, age decline of Gobert, success of the team, cap growth, free agents ring chasing, ect… It is just too early to have this conversation. Any attempt I make to write a proper response always runs into multiple of these variables.

[KGdaBom]

He's baaaccckkkk!!!
For those interested in us acquiring Delon Wright.

DELON WRIGHT
12/26/2023 8:57:26 AM
Wright (knee) has been cleared for action Tuesday against Orlando. Wright was entirely removed from the injury report Tuesday following a 20-game absence due to a right knee sprain. Returning alongside Johnny Davis (calf) ends the only multi-game absences for Washington, bringing the rotation to full health. Prior to spraining his knee, Wright had averaged 5.8 points, 2.0 rebounds, 4.0 assists and 1.6 steals in 16.8 minutes across his last five contests. He'll likely slot into a similar role given that Tyus Jones has been sharp orchestrating the offense, posting 17.8 points and 8.0 assists over his last five games.

[BlacJacMac]

Never assume KD will be happy anywhere.

[TimberKat]

I think KD is frustrated is overblown and doesn't mean he wants to be traded. Having him instead of Towns will make Wolves favorite to win the West. Certainly is a tough decision that would be easier if we fall to 3rd or 4th place by trading deadline. Assuming the trade is available, I still like to see if we can improve our offensive flow before making that decision.

[BlacJacMac]

I think KD is frustrated is overblown and doesn't mean he wants to be traded. Having him instead of Towns will make Wolves favorite to win the West. Certainly is a tough decision that would be easier if we fall to 3rd or 4th place by trading deadline. Assuming the trade is available, I still like to see if we can improve our offensive flow before making that decision.

He's blown up every situation he's ever been in and even has argued with fans using burner accounts. He's not a guy I want around Ant and Jaden.

A truly amazing talent, but he's old, oft injured and likely to try to bolt as soon as the going gets tough.

[_AIJ_]

Tyus Jones would be so perfect for the second unit

[jpatrick]

Tyus Jones would be so perfect for the second unit

Is there any way to get Jones/Kispert for some combo of Anderson, Shake, TBJ, Minnott, WMJ, an unprotected pick swap and some seconds?

If we’re giving up assets for Jones, I’d love to get what I think our #1 need is, a movement shooter, to go with him.

[Klomp]

Tyus Jones would be so perfect for the second unit

Is there any way to get Jones/Kispert for some combo of Anderson, Shake, TBJ, Minnott, WMJ, an unprotected pick swap and some seconds?

If we’re giving up assets for Jones, I’d love to get what I think our #1 need is, a movement shooter, to go with him.

I've been trying to play around with some ideas. I feel like in order to win the Jones sweepstakes, we might need to include someone like Miller. The other thought I've had....is Naz Reid.

I don't particularly like either idea, but that's what I think it could require for us to get someone the caliber of Tyus Jones.

[twolves31]

[Charania] After a record-setting loss, Cunningham spoke to the team. Pistons' president, Tom Gore, seeks changes, evaluating front office and roster. Cunningham and Duren exempt, rest up for grabs via trade. Pistons eye Siakam, Anunoby, Tobias Harris, or Miles Bridges via trade.

Anyone worth going after on Detroit's roster?

[moss_is_1]

[Charania] After a record-setting loss, Cunningham spoke to the team. Pistons' president, Tom Gore, seeks changes, evaluating front office and roster. Cunningham and Duren exempt, rest up for grabs via trade. Pistons eye Siakam, Anunoby, Tobias Harris, or Miles Bridges via trade.

Anyone worth going after on Detroit's roster?

They have pieces that could help. Bogdanovic would be amazing, but we can't reach his salary. Same with Joe Harris.

Realistically it would be Monte Morris for me, and he's got that Denver connection. Only other player who seems interesting is Burks, but I think I'd rather roll with TBJ and Naw instead of moving pieces for another wing.

Backup PG and adding shooting is our main need, IMO. Morris fits both, we could move Slomo...but I'd be trying to offer Shake, Tbj along with a couple of 2nds and keep Kyle. They may like Wendell Moore on a flyer, but would be hard for us to do a 3 for 1 deal. Looking to stay out of the tax.

[Klomp]

I could give some long winded and well reasoned argument for KAT not Rudy, but there are too many variables. Health, age decline of Gobert, success of the team, cap growth, free agents ring chasing, ect… It is just too early to have this conversation. Any attempt I make to write a proper response always runs into multiple of these variables.

I definitely agree that there are so many variables. That's why I'm trying to nudge people to be more open to the idea of Rudy, because I do think there are variables that could make that the direction they go.

I feel like even getting a trade return similar to what Orlando got for Vucevic would be just fine in a year or so.

[Klomp]

[Charania] After a record-setting loss, Cunningham spoke to the team. Pistons' president, Tom Gore, seeks changes, evaluating front office and roster. Cunningham and Duren exempt, rest up for grabs via trade. Pistons eye Siakam, Anunoby, Tobias Harris, or Miles Bridges via trade.

Anyone worth going after on Detroit's roster?

They have pieces that could help. Bogdanovic would be amazing, but we can't reach his salary. Same with Joe Harris.

Realistically it would be Monte Morris for me, and he's got that Denver connection. Only other player who seems interesting is Burks, but I think I'd rather roll with TBJ and Naw instead of moving pieces for another wing.

Backup PG and adding shooting is our main need, IMO. Morris fits both, we could move Slomo...but I'd be trying to offer Shake, Tbj along with a couple of 2nds and keep Kyle. They may like Wendell Moore on a flyer, but would be hard for us to do a 3 for 1 deal. Looking to stay out of the tax.

If it helps anyone, a reminder that Burks is also someone who has experience playing with Gobert.

Morris is definitely the main piece of interest from Detroit, but I could see another 3 or 4 guards on their roster be possibilities too.

[winforlose]

On Canis Hoopus, all anyone wants to talk about is how last night was a fluke and Kyle is fine. We don’t need a backup PG and Ant isn’t going to play hero ball. I don’t understand those people. Shake and Kyle take a bad offense and make it worse. They just do. Last night was a film study in bad spacing and Kyle was a center piece of it. I don’t know if the answer is Tyus or Morris, or someone else. What I do know is that last night can happen on any given night and that is a problem.

[shangrila]

[Charania] After a record-setting loss, Cunningham spoke to the team. Pistons' president, Tom Gore, seeks changes, evaluating front office and roster. Cunningham and Duren exempt, rest up for grabs via trade. Pistons eye Siakam, Anunoby, Tobias Harris, or Miles Bridges via trade.

Anyone worth going after on Detroit's roster?

They have pieces that could help. Bogdanovic would be amazing, but we can't reach his salary. Same with Joe Harris.

Realistically it would be Monte Morris for me, and he's got that Denver connection. Only other player who seems interesting is Burks, but I think I'd rather roll with TBJ and Naw instead of moving pieces for another wing.

Backup PG and adding shooting is our main need, IMO. Morris fits both, we could move Slomo...but I'd be trying to offer Shake, Tbj along with a couple of 2nds and keep Kyle. They may like Wendell Moore on a flyer, but would be hard for us to do a 3 for 1 deal. Looking to stay out of the tax.

If it helps anyone, a reminder that Burks is also someone who has experience playing with Gobert.

Morris is definitely the main piece of interest from Detroit, but I could see another 3 or 4 guards on their roster be possibilities too.

Morris isn't healthy and is unlikely to be 100% all season. Outside of him, who do you see helping?

Harris is finished, even before this injury he was unplayable. Burks has sucked. Killian Hayes might be available because he sucks. Outside of them I don't see anyone else available that's useful.

[moss_is_1]

On Canis Hoopus, all anyone wants to talk about is how last night was a fluke and Kyle is fine. We don’t need a backup PG and Ant isn’t going to play hero ball. I don’t understand those people. Shake and Kyle take a bad offense and make it worse. They just do. Last night was a film study in bad spacing and Kyle was a center piece of it. I don’t know if the answer is Tyus or Morris, or someone else. What I do know is that last night can happen on any given night and that is a problem.

We have 2 great shooters(Kat/Conely), 3 streaky but mostly good(Ant/Jaden/Naz), and after that it gets rough. Those guys needs to all up their 3 point attempts and we have to find another guy in the rotation that could consistently hit a 3. Naw's defense is ultra valuable, but when he's not hitting a shot we cannot afford to play him with Slomo and Rudy. 3 non shooters on the floor kills the offense.

[moss_is_1]

Tyus Jones would be so perfect for the second unit

Is there any way to get Jones/Kispert for some combo of Anderson, Shake, TBJ, Minnott, WMJ, an unprotected pick swap and some seconds?

If we’re giving up assets for Jones, I’d love to get what I think our #1 need is, a movement shooter, to go with him.

Also would be happy to try and snag Kispert with Jones or even Wright if he's cheaper.

Tyus(14) and Kisper(3.7) are around 17.7m
Kyle(9.2), Shake(5), and Wendell(2.4) keeps us under the tax just barely, but leaves us with 2 open roster spots. I'm not sure how many we can have.

I feel we'd have to pony up a 2nd or 2 as well. Kyle and Tyus are similar in value, imo. Both are ok starters but best as bench players. Maybe Washington would like Moore as a flier on a 1st round pick.

Worth noting that Delon Wright is a ton cheaper than Tyus at only 8.1m.

[younggunsmn]

They have pieces that could help. Bogdanovic would be amazing, but we can't reach his salary. Same with Joe Harris.

Realistically it would be Monte Morris for me, and he's got that Denver connection. Only other player who seems interesting is Burks, but I think I'd rather roll with TBJ and Naw instead of moving pieces for another wing.

Backup PG and adding shooting is our main need, IMO. Morris fits both, we could move Slomo...but I'd be trying to offer Shake, Tbj along with a couple of 2nds and keep Kyle. They may like Wendell Moore on a flyer, but would be hard for us to do a 3 for 1 deal. Looking to stay out of the tax.

If it helps anyone, a reminder that Burks is also someone who has experience playing with Gobert.

Morris is definitely the main piece of interest from Detroit, but I could see another 3 or 4 guards on their roster be possibilities too.

Morris isn't healthy and is unlikely to be 100% all season. Outside of him, who do you see helping?

Harris is finished, even before this injury he was unplayable. Burks has sucked. Killian Hayes might be available because he sucks. Outside of them I don't see anyone else available that's useful.

Burks has been a very good 2-way player for many years, including several 40%+ from 3.
He's having a down year, but some team in contention will want him at the deadline.

Hayes isn't explosive and just hasn't been able to shoot well enough, his A/T is pretty decent. I wouldn't rule out a career as a backup.

Burks makes 10.5 and Hayes 7.5, so trading for both would be hard to salary match and stay under the tax.

I could see Anderson/Moore for Burks as a possibility if Kyle continues to stink things up offensively.
We would have to have some faith in Miller to play a few minutes.
We could sign a rookie min to replace Moore and not lose anything.

Jmac is a "break glass in emergency" only type of PG and we really could use another backup quality floor general.
Maybe with better coaching and players around him, Hayes would look better.
He doesn't flash on film, but he's not the kind to force a lot of dumb mistakes either.
We turned NAW's career arc around, he would be another relatively low risk project and Conley is the perfect mentor.

I know Burks isn't a PG, but he's another shooter and wing defender who is at least playable.
And at his age, if it works out here, there's a chance we could get him back for the vet min.

[younggunsmn]

Tyus Jones would be so perfect for the second unit

Is there any way to get Jones/Kispert for some combo of Anderson, Shake, TBJ, Minnott, WMJ, an unprotected pick swap and some seconds?

If we’re giving up assets for Jones, I’d love to get what I think our #1 need is, a movement shooter, to go with him.

I've been trying to play around with some ideas. I feel like in order to win the Jones sweepstakes, we might need to include someone like Miller. The other thought I've had....is Naz Reid.

I don't particularly like either idea, but that's what I think it could require for us to get someone the caliber of Tyus Jones.

Yeah I'd hate to move Naz, especially before we know how this year turns out and what our long term plan is with Rudy/KAT/luxury tax.
It looks good so far, but things can change quickly.

That said, he can be a free agent at the end of next year again. He's a fan favorite and I love his play, and he did re-sign here at a discount because he like it here. Trading him to a place he could get starter minutes would be doing him a solid.

Washington would have to add more to Tyus though as Tyus is expiring, and it would be a bad/risky long term play for us as he could walk for nothing and we might not be able to afford to bring him back anyway, as he's certainly going to get a raise if he keeps up his current numbers.