NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (continued)

[QPR]

How does he have the worst supporting cast? The Bucks have a seasoned roster and added Lillard. From a narrative point of view, he's going to need at least 5-8 more wins than SGA, fairly or unfairly.

Have you not watched the Bucks this season? Lmao. Middleton isn’t the player that he once was. Lopez is the third option on the team and his “DPOY” level defense y’all liked to hype is nonexistent. Malik Beasley is having a super outlier 3 point year otherwise dude isn’t even a starter level player.

Team is pretty Giannis/Dame and the others. OKC has Chet, Dort, and a wel rounded team. Nuggets have Murray, Gordon, MPJ and Jackson, only real issue is health. 6ers, don’t even need to discuss. It really isn’t close, Giannis has the worst supporting cast

The MVP is a narrative award more than an analytics one. I can guarantee you that voters aren't going to consider Giannis as having a weaker supporting cast after they landed Dame.

[mediocrityrules]

How does he have the worst supporting cast? The Bucks have a seasoned roster and added Lillard. From a narrative point of view, he's going to need at least 5-8 more wins than SGA, fairly or unfairly.

Have you not watched the Bucks this season? Lmao. Middleton isn’t the player that he once was. Lopez is the third option on the team and his “DPOY” level defense y’all liked to hype is nonexistent. Malik Beasley is having a super outlier 3 point year otherwise dude isn’t even a starter level player.

Team is pretty Giannis/Dame and the others. OKC has Chet, Dort, and a wel rounded team. Nuggets have Murray, Gordon, MPJ and Jackson, only real issue is health. 6ers, don’t even need to discuss. It really isn’t close, Giannis has the worst supporting cast

The MVP is a narrative award more than an analytics one. I can guarantee you that voters aren't going to consider Giannis as having a weaker supporting cast after they landed Dame.

Not sure that's the argument. Plenty of conversations to date arguing that the Bucks are weaker having given up Jrue (and Grayson) for Dame, and defensively, they've fallen into the toilet compared to the Bud years. The question is whether the improved offense makes up for the large defensive deficiencies. The jury is still out on whether this year's Bucks team is better than last year, after the addition of Dame.

But it's December, and these arguments are nowhere near being resolved, especially not until we understand what the final rosters are going to look like.

[Gatorade Sax]

Respect to Shai, definitely deserves consideration..not just general consideration, legit number 1 status.

[Woodsanity]

I have SGA first right now. He was already in my top 3-5 and now he has climbed to 1.

[Baz]

I'm a Bucks homer as much as anyone, but it wouldn't be the worst thing for SGA to be MVP this year. Honestly, it would be good to have someone different than 'the big 3' (with a sprinkling of Luka and Tatum) always being talked about. These threads have been far too monotonous for far too long.

Let's put SGA at the top of everyone's lists, and then see if anyone can look for valid reasons (beyond 'narrative') why he shouldn't be considered the front-runner. I'm happy to campaign for him if he can keep this up.

SGA is definitely top 3 right now with Luka and Embiid

I don't think Luka's there right now. You can argue for a top 5 that has Embiid, Jokic, SGA, Luka and Giannis, but i think that Embiid, Jokic, and SGA are currently sitting half a tier above Luka and Giannis.

The Mavs being 18-14 is the only reason Luka isn't there. It's unfortunate because a bunch of those losses have been with him being out or a combination of one or both Kyrie and Lively being out. We'll see how they go when everyone's back. Weird that Luka's Xmas game against the Suns where he created 92 points in a single game didn't move the needle even slightly for lots of people. Luka is the Mavs offense. I really don't think the teams of other leading MVP candidates suffer more without their MVP candidates than the Mavs do without Luka.

[Madhouse]

SGA is putting up MVP numbers while having EPM of 10.5 and BPM of 11.2. He's definitely in the top 2. I would give it to him if the Thunder finish top 2 in the West and he keeps this up.

[timO]

Shai is the real MVP, is the end of the era of only bigs mvp.

[Cubbies2120]

Giannis is playing like the best player in the world…. The dude is MVP. Sounds like y’all want him averaging 40 for him to win. That said, I wouldn’t mind Shai winning. Don’t think many predicted this early or preseason

Giannis has absolutely no argument other than name value. It’s not even close.

Giannis: 29.2 PER, .231 WS/48, 7.4 BPM, +7.5 EPM, +8.0 NetRtg, +5.5 on/off

SGA: 31.3 PER, .300 WS/48, 10.8 BPM, +10.4 EPM, +13.4 NetRtg, +18.3 on/off

Those box stats haven’t even adjusted for SGA’s great game tonight either. Honestly, there’s probably at least 10 guys that you could make a case for over Giannis that would have much better statistical backing than any case you’d make for Giannis over SGA.

LeBron > Giannis, Haliburton > Giannis, Edwards > Giannis, Kawhi > Giannis, any of those you can at least argue. There’s no argument for Giannis > SGA based on this season. None. It’s like trying to argue Tatum over SGA or something. You’re just living in the past.

I’m not listening to a thing you’re saying for the rest of this thread. And no, SGA is in no world better than Giannis.

Lmao, disregards literal evidence and says "Waaahh this doesn't fit my view I'm gonna disregard it completely!"

Never change, at least we know who we're dealing with here now.

[eyeatoma]

Giannis has absolutely no argument other than name value. It’s not even close.

Giannis: 29.2 PER, .231 WS/48, 7.4 BPM, +7.5 EPM, +8.0 NetRtg, +5.5 on/off

SGA: 31.3 PER, .300 WS/48, 10.8 BPM, +10.4 EPM, +13.4 NetRtg, +18.3 on/off

Those box stats haven’t even adjusted for SGA’s great game tonight either. Honestly, there’s probably at least 10 guys that you could make a case for over Giannis that would have much better statistical backing than any case you’d make for Giannis over SGA.

LeBron > Giannis, Haliburton > Giannis, Edwards > Giannis, Kawhi > Giannis, any of those you can at least argue. There’s no argument for Giannis > SGA based on this season. None. It’s like trying to argue Tatum over SGA or something. You’re just living in the past.

I’m not listening to a thing you’re saying for the rest of this thread. And no, SGA is in no world better than Giannis.

Lmao, disregards literal evidence and says "Waaahh this doesn't fit my view I'm gonna disregard it completely!"

Never change, at least we know who we're dealing with here now.

Lol the irony here is... Chef's kiss...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[Mavrelous]

Latest surge for OKC places SGA #1 IMO

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[bigboi]

Giannis has absolutely no argument other than name value. It’s not even close.

Giannis: 29.2 PER, .231 WS/48, 7.4 BPM, +7.5 EPM, +8.0 NetRtg, +5.5 on/off

SGA: 31.3 PER, .300 WS/48, 10.8 BPM, +10.4 EPM, +13.4 NetRtg, +18.3 on/off

Those box stats haven’t even adjusted for SGA’s great game tonight either. Honestly, there’s probably at least 10 guys that you could make a case for over Giannis that would have much better statistical backing than any case you’d make for Giannis over SGA.

LeBron > Giannis, Haliburton > Giannis, Edwards > Giannis, Kawhi > Giannis, any of those you can at least argue. There’s no argument for Giannis > SGA based on this season. None. It’s like trying to argue Tatum over SGA or something. You’re just living in the past.

I’m not listening to a thing you’re saying for the rest of this thread. And no, SGA is in no world better than Giannis.

Lmao, disregards literal evidence and says "Waaahh this doesn't fit my view I'm gonna disregard it completely!"

Never change, at least we know who we're dealing with here now.

Wrong. Read the post again. He says Gianni’s has 0 argument over Shai and uses stats to justify the argument yet at the same time posts players like Anthony Edwards when the stats gap is large in very way between him and Giannis. The argument doesn’t make any sense. Again, this thread isn’t objective and it’s silly. No, Shai isn’t better than Giannis although a great player. That I can stomach. Calling Edwards better than Giannis especially this season is absolute nonsense

[bigboi]

Giannis has absolutely no argument other than name value. It’s not even close.

Giannis: 29.2 PER, .231 WS/48, 7.4 BPM, +7.5 EPM, +8.0 NetRtg, +5.5 on/off

SGA: 31.3 PER, .300 WS/48, 10.8 BPM, +10.4 EPM, +13.4 NetRtg, +18.3 on/off

Those box stats haven’t even adjusted for SGA’s great game tonight either. Honestly, there’s probably at least 10 guys that you could make a case for over Giannis that would have much better statistical backing than any case you’d make for Giannis over SGA.

LeBron > Giannis, Haliburton > Giannis, Edwards > Giannis, Kawhi > Giannis, any of those you can at least argue. There’s no argument for Giannis > SGA based on this season. None. It’s like trying to argue Tatum over SGA or something. You’re just living in the past.

I’m not listening to a thing you’re saying for the rest of this thread. And no, SGA is in no world better than Giannis.

Bucks have the best record of all these teams playing, are on a win streak. Giannis has the worst supporting cast out of Jokic, SGA, and Embiid. Now the fact that you mentioned Anthony Edwards and Kawhi being better than Giannis especially this season after using stats to state your case about SGA shows me that I Don’t need to take what you say seriously.

If you said the bolded to any GM in the league, you’d get laughed out the room. But yea, don’t ever quote me again. Don’t have time reading silliness

I'm not saying those guys are better. I'm saying you could at least argue it. Haliburton has a higher BPM than Giannis. LeBron, Edwards, and Kawhi all have much better on/off numbers. Giannis has NOTHING on SGA. Nothing. Every single way you can possibly imagine measuring it, SGA's better.

But yeah, trying to say that Lillard, Lopez, and Middleton are the worst supporting cast of any of the MVP candidates when the Bucks are +2.5 this season with Giannis off the floor this season just shows you're not arguing in good faith at all. It would be like me trying to say that SGA's edge over the other guys is that he's the tallest. You're just talking nonsense.

No, you can’t at least argue it. The fact that your argument is on/off numbers shows how silly it is as well. Again, these are arguments I only see on Realgm, not on Reddit, not on Twitter, not from actual analysts, not in real life, not anywhere else and it’s silly.

[bigboi]

How does he have the worst supporting cast? The Bucks have a seasoned roster and added Lillard. From a narrative point of view, he's going to need at least 5-8 more wins than SGA, fairly or unfairly.

Have you not watched the Bucks this season? Lmao. Middleton isn’t the player that he once was. Lopez is the third option on the team and his “DPOY” level defense y’all liked to hype is nonexistent. Malik Beasley is having a super outlier 3 point year otherwise dude isn’t even a starter level player.

Team is pretty Giannis/Dame and the others. OKC has Chet, Dort, and a wel rounded team. Nuggets have Murray, Gordon, MPJ and Jackson, only real issue is health. 6ers, don’t even need to discuss. It really isn’t close, Giannis has the worst supporting cast

The MVP is a narrative award more than an analytics one. I can guarantee you that voters aren't going to consider Giannis as having a weaker supporting cast after they landed Dame.

You asked how Giannis has the weakest supporting cast and I gave my answer. Narrative is another story

[AleksandarN]

Bigboi just stop. You are looking worse by each post

[BruttoNostra]

I'm a huge Doncic/Jokic homer, and yet, as of now, the MVP should belong to SGA.
It's a regular season award, past accomplishments shouldn't matter as well.
If he was some more popular name (and not a young player from a small market team), he (SGA) would be all over the media.

Jokic is just coasting through the season, more worrying about incorporating new team members (+ the larger role for Payton Watson) than about stats (just look at his last 2 games).
Luka is like the most polarising player in the league. Some games/quarters he's like the future GOAT, some others he's a low IQ detriment. His HC doesn't help as well (wtf Lively did on the floor during that last possession vs Cavs? It's beyond stupid).
The rest of candidates are there only because of stat-padding or simply being big names.

[Jailblazers7]

This year’s race is the most wide open in recent memory. Embiid is the front runner but Doncic, Jokic, SGA, and Giannis all have an excellent case for the award. Hell, even Tatum will get some momentum if the Celtics maintain their 66 win pace.

[dygaction]

Have you not watched the Bucks this season? Lmao. Middleton isn’t the player that he once was. Lopez is the third option on the team and his “DPOY” level defense y’all liked to hype is nonexistent. Malik Beasley is having a super outlier 3 point year otherwise dude isn’t even a starter level player.

Team is pretty Giannis/Dame and the others. OKC has Chet, Dort, and a wel rounded team. Nuggets have Murray, Gordon, MPJ and Jackson, only real issue is health. 6ers, don’t even need to discuss. It really isn’t close, Giannis has the worst supporting cast

The MVP is a narrative award more than an analytics one. I can guarantee you that voters aren't going to consider Giannis as having a weaker supporting cast after they landed Dame.

You asked how Giannis has the weakest supporting cast and I gave my answer. Narrative is another story

A thing worth consideration is Giannis entering LeBron mode, win now and trade for big names, instead of developing young players.

[Snotbubbles]

I’m not listening to a thing you’re saying for the rest of this thread. And no, SGA is in no world better than Giannis.

Bucks have the best record of all these teams playing, are on a win streak. Giannis has the worst supporting cast out of Jokic, SGA, and Embiid. Now the fact that you mentioned Anthony Edwards and Kawhi being better than Giannis especially this season after using stats to state your case about SGA shows me that I Don’t need to take what you say seriously.

If you said the bolded to any GM in the league, you’d get laughed out the room. But yea, don’t ever quote me again. Don’t have time reading silliness

I'm not saying those guys are better. I'm saying you could at least argue it. Haliburton has a higher BPM than Giannis. LeBron, Edwards, and Kawhi all have much better on/off numbers. Giannis has NOTHING on SGA. Nothing. Every single way you can possibly imagine measuring it, SGA's better.

But yeah, trying to say that Lillard, Lopez, and Middleton are the worst supporting cast of any of the MVP candidates when the Bucks are +2.5 this season with Giannis off the floor this season just shows you're not arguing in good faith at all. It would be like me trying to say that SGA's edge over the other guys is that he's the tallest. You're just talking nonsense.

No, you can’t at least argue it. The fact that your argument is on/off numbers shows how silly it is as well. Again, these are arguments I only see on Realgm, not on Reddit, not on Twitter, not from actual analysts, not in real life, not anywhere else and it’s silly.

Giannis: 29.2 PER, .231 WS/48, 7.4 BPM, +7.5 EPM, +8.0 NetRtg, +5.5 on/off

SGA: 31.3 PER, .300 WS/48, 10.8 BPM, +10.4 EPM, +13.4 NetRtg, +18.3 on/off

Embiid: 34.8 PER, .317 WS/48, 12.7 BPM, +10.6 EPM, +14.0 NetRtg, +6.0 on/off

[Cubbies2120]

I’m not listening to a thing you’re saying for the rest of this thread. And no, SGA is in no world better than Giannis.

Lmao, disregards literal evidence and says "Waaahh this doesn't fit my view I'm gonna disregard it completely!"

Never change, at least we know who we're dealing with here now.

Lol the irony here is... Chef's kiss...

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

Go on - which of your points have I completely disregarded? Link it here I'll happily respond to it.

[Hobo4President]

I’m not listening to a thing you’re saying for the rest of this thread. And no, SGA is in no world better than Giannis.

Bucks have the best record of all these teams playing, are on a win streak. Giannis has the worst supporting cast out of Jokic, SGA, and Embiid. Now the fact that you mentioned Anthony Edwards and Kawhi being better than Giannis especially this season after using stats to state your case about SGA shows me that I Don’t need to take what you say seriously.

If you said the bolded to any GM in the league, you’d get laughed out the room. But yea, don’t ever quote me again. Don’t have time reading silliness

I'm not saying those guys are better. I'm saying you could at least argue it. Haliburton has a higher BPM than Giannis. LeBron, Edwards, and Kawhi all have much better on/off numbers. Giannis has NOTHING on SGA. Nothing. Every single way you can possibly imagine measuring it, SGA's better.

But yeah, trying to say that Lillard, Lopez, and Middleton are the worst supporting cast of any of the MVP candidates when the Bucks are +2.5 this season with Giannis off the floor this season just shows you're not arguing in good faith at all. It would be like me trying to say that SGA's edge over the other guys is that he's the tallest. You're just talking nonsense.

No, you can’t at least argue it. The fact that your argument is on/off numbers shows how silly it is as well. Again, these are arguments I only see on Realgm, not on Reddit, not on Twitter, not from actual analysts, not in real life, not anywhere else and it’s silly.

Just got to say, the quality of basketball discussion is far far worse on reddit and twitter than RealGM. At that point you might as well say "I never see these arguments in youtube comments".