Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[NatP4]

It’s the combination of getting all of those picks wrong. Mobley and Suggs were in the conversation for #1. Plenty of people out there were expressing skepticism about Cunningham. He was very mediocre at OK State.

Ivey was mocked top 5, but the Kings made the ballsy move to pass and benefited significantly. Detroit just has no idea how to evaluate players. Evidence by them picking up busts like Wiseman and Bagley.

[Silvie Lysandra]

It’s far more than that. They picked guys like Doumbouya, Kennard, Ellenson, and Stanley Johnson.

Terrible drafting for a decade.

Cunningham and Ivey were two of the most overrated prospects of all time. Suggs and Murray alongside Ausar Thompson, would be a solid starting point for a rebuild.

But literally the entire league was wrong about both of them (if they bust or just underwhelm). It's not like they were taking Muresan in the top 5 or something nuts like that, Ivey and Cunningham were consensus top of lottery guys, Ivey was gonna go higher according to some and Cunningham was 1 or 2 on nearly every scouts board and reported mock based on interviews I saw. The whole league was wrong, this wasn't the Jets or Raiders going full Jets or Raiders off the board, this was the league just missing on an eval (if it plays out that way). I agree with Nate on that breakdown. That was the reality of people's boards at the time. It is weird that they are colossaly bad after so many consensus top guys went right to them. They didn't even have terrible lottery luck, they were pulling top guys for the classes in draft after draft. How on earth they are worse than us is beyond me.

can't speak to Ivey but I think what went wrong with Cade is that everyone was fighting the last war, namely, the NBA blew the eval on Luka (Anyone not named Luka Doncic even being considered for #1, let alone actually TAKEN #1, was a massively blown eval), and i think people didn't' want to repeat that, but the problem witih Cade is that Cade was less dominant against boys than Luka was against men.

[bsilver]

Cade Cunningham has been playing very well lately. His December stats vs Oct/Nov show a huge improvement.
Makes no sense to count him out. He is only 22.

[badinage]

It’s the combination of getting all of those picks wrong. Mobley and Suggs were in the conversation for #1. Plenty of people out there were expressing skepticism about Cunningham. He was very mediocre at OK State.

Ivey was mocked top 5, but the Kings made the ballsy move to pass and benefited significantly. Detroit just has no idea how to evaluate players. Evidence by them picking up busts like Wiseman and Bagley.

And yet we were all told on here, for years and years, that we needed a GM like Troy Weaver.

That Weaver knew talent. That he had Thunder pedigree. That he was from DC.

[DCZards]

Cade Cunningham has been playing very well lately. His December stats vs Oct/Nov show a huge improvement.
Makes no sense to count him out. He is only 22.

I expect Cade to still turn out to be at worst the third best player from the 2021 draft (after Barnes &, maybe Mobley).

I was extremely high on Ivey who has struggled to even earn playing time. However, he’s played better lately.

I like the idea that some have posted here suggesting that the Zards trade for Ivey while his stock is low.

[Frichuela]

Cade Cunningham has been playing very well lately. His December stats vs Oct/Nov show a huge improvement.
Makes no sense to count him out. He is only 22.

I expect Cade to still turn out to be at worst the third best player from the 2021 draft (after Barnes &, maybe Mosley).

I was extremely high on Ivey who has struggled to even earn playing time. However, he’s played better lately.

I like the idea that some have posted here suggesting that the Zards trade for Ivey while his stock is low.

Agreed. The Wiz need to make gambles of this sort if they want to be competitive at some point. As you said, Ivey has been playing better as of late. Guards take time and he is only 21 with great size (a wingspan of 6’9”).

[NatP4]

No thanks. Was all for it whenever people were calling Suggs a bust and proposing a Hachimura swap. Jared Butler is a better prospect than Ivey at this point.

Butler per 36: 20.4 points 8.4 assists 3.2 rebounds 2.6 steals 63.5% TS. Only a year older than Ivey.

[DCZards]

No thanks. Was all for it whenever people were calling Suggs a bust and proposing a Hachimura swap. Jared Butler is a better prospect than Ivey at this point.

Butler per 36: 20.4 points 8.4 assists 3.2 rebounds 2.6 steals 63.5% TS. Only a year older than Ivey.

Ivey is an elite athlete who is still just learning to play. I’d take a chance on him.

I like Butler. But those are almost entirely garbage time numbers against the other team’s backups.

[9 and 20]

Knicks just made a win-now trade for Anunoby. Maybe increases their incentive to trade for a center like Gafford?

I like Gaff a lot but we can be just as trash without him.

I'd trade Tyus Jones too - hopefully he brings back a good pick. Not sure if Delon Wright or Shamet would bring anything back. Maybe just keep them since the team has no faith in Johnny Davis.

Winger about to add 26 2nd round picks to his bag.

[NYG]

Gafford and Tyus for Sims, Fournier, Wizards 1st returned and '24 Jazz 2nd?

[bsilver]

Cade Cunningham has been playing very well lately. His December stats vs Oct/Nov show a huge improvement.
Makes no sense to count him out. He is only 22.

I expect Cade to still turn out to be at worst the third best player from the 2021 draft (after Barnes &, maybe Mosley).

I was extremely high on Ivey who has struggled to even earn playing time. However, he’s played better lately.

I like the idea that some have posted here suggesting that the Zards trade for Ivey while his stock is low.

You had me googling Mos(b)ley. I think if I was picking number 1, it would be Franz Wagner.

[payitforward]

No thanks. Was all for it whenever people were calling Suggs a bust and proposing a Hachimura swap. Jared Butler is a better prospect than Ivey at this point.

Butler per 36: 20.4 points 8.4 assists 3.2 rebounds 2.6 steals 63.5% TS. Only a year older than Ivey.

In his last 5 games, Butler has gone 14-21 from the floor, including 4-9 on 3-pointers. & 6-8 from the line.

38 points in 47 minutes (32.34 per 40 minutes) at a 77.5% TS% !! Not to mention 13 assists & 4 steals vs only 3 TOs & 3 fouls.

That's tremendous work.

Obviously, it's a tiny sample, nor was he playing against starters (or with much at stake). All the same, good play is good play & should earn him minutes!

[NatP4]

Just counting down the days until Jones is traded and Butler gets real minutes. Had him as the 3rd of 4th best player in his draft class. Still a believer

Tonight Butler had 32&12 with the Go-Go.

[NatP4]

Cade Cunningham has been playing very well lately. His December stats vs Oct/Nov show a huge improvement.
Makes no sense to count him out. He is only 22.

I expect Cade to still turn out to be at worst the third best player from the 2021 draft (after Barnes &, maybe Mosley).

I was extremely high on Ivey who has struggled to even earn playing time. However, he’s played better lately.

I like the idea that some have posted here suggesting that the Zards trade for Ivey while his stock is low.

You had me googling Mos(b)ley. I think if I was picking number 1, it would be Franz Wagner.

Wagner, Sengun, Suggs.

[penbeast0]

Gafford and Tyus for Sims, Fournier, Wizards 1st returned and '24 Jazz 2nd?

I think for both Gafford and Tyus, you are going to have to give up a real 1st in addition to the Wiz first which probably won't convey but is still valuable for flexibility.

Tyus won't resign in a reserve role though so the deal should probably be Gafford and Wright for Fournier and the Wiz 1st returned. Wright gives you the short term POA defender and spot shooter off the bench, just without the offensive punch that made IQ valuable.

[doclinkin]

Cade Cunningham has been playing very well lately. His December stats vs Oct/Nov show a huge improvement.
Makes no sense to count him out. He is only 22.

I expect Cade to still turn out to be at worst the third best player from the 2021 draft (after Barnes &, maybe Mosley).

I was extremely high on Ivey who has struggled to even earn playing time. However, he’s played better lately.

I like the idea that some have posted here suggesting that the Zards trade for Ivey while his stock is low.

You had me googling Mos(b)ley. I think if I was picking number 1, it would be Franz Wagner.

I think I'd still take Mobley 1st overall. 2nd youngest player to earn a 1st team Defensive team. Playing the most critical defensive position. It's close, Wagner is an elite glue guy, he reminds me of Andre Kirilenko in his ability to affect all aspects of the game. But Mobley has play defense in the no-man's land on every possession to cover for a team that has undersized guards in 6'1" Garland and 6'3" Mitchell. And he carried that team to the best defense in the league last year. Yes he has Jarret Allen as a drop defender safety net behind him, but Mobley is the key on that squad, able to play either 4 or 5 at both ends. If we had Mobley playing next to Gafford, our defense would not be as miserable. If we had Wagner, we'd still suck at D, just a bit less.

[nate33]

I expect Cade to still turn out to be at worst the third best player from the 2021 draft (after Barnes &, maybe Mosley).

I was extremely high on Ivey who has struggled to even earn playing time. However, he’s played better lately.

I like the idea that some have posted here suggesting that the Zards trade for Ivey while his stock is low.

You had me googling Mos(b)ley. I think if I was picking number 1, it would be Franz Wagner.

I think I'd still take Mobley 1st overall. 2nd youngest player to earn a 1st team Defensive team. Playing the most critical defensive position. It's close, Wagner is an elite glue guy, he reminds me of Andre Kirilenko in his ability to affect all aspects of the game. But Mobley has play defense in the no-man's land on every possession to cover for a team that has undersized guards in 6'1" Garland and 6'3" Mitchell. And he carried that team to the best defense in the league last year. Yes he has Jarret Allen as a drop defender safety net behind him, but Mobley is the key on that squad, able to play either 4 or 5 at both ends. If we had Mobley playing next to Gafford, our defense would not be as miserable. If we had Wagner, we'd still suck at D, just a bit less.

I dunno. It's a little disappointing that Mobley seems to have plateaued. We haven't seen him add any skills since arriving to the league, he has merely gotten a little stronger and smarter as one would expect. His numbers are the same as last year except an uptick in rebounding. He hasn't really added the offensive skill to play PF like I was hoping. It looks like his destiny will be to continue to get bigger and shift to full time center. Don't get me wrong, Mobley is a defensive anchor at center who will surely pan out to be one of the 7 or 8 centers in the league who really matter. I suppose that's enough to still rank him #1 in his draft. But his lack of outside shooting lowers his offensive ceiling. I'm thinking he'll have a career more like a Bam Adebayo rather than a Kevin Garnett - consistently a top 5 center but not really a top 50 all time player or anything.

Franz seems to be improving every year. He has boosted his usage, rebounding, and assist rate while getting better of D. He is finishing even better from floater range and from 10-16 feet. His TS% is down a bit but that's solely due to a significant collapse in 3P shooting (28.9%), which I'm assuming is a fluke. I love his game. He is a Swiss army knife at both ends of the floor who can pretty much do anything you need of him, either on ball or off ball. I still don't know what his ceiling will be.

[FAH1223]

Gafford and Tyus for Sims, Fournier, Wizards 1st returned and '24 Jazz 2nd?

I think for both Gafford and Tyus, you are going to have to give up a real 1st in addition to the Wiz first which probably won't convey but is still valuable for flexibility.

Tyus won't resign in a reserve role though so the deal should probably be Gafford and Wright for Fournier and the Wiz 1st returned. Wright gives you the short term POA defender and spot shooter off the bench, just without the offensive punch that made IQ valuable.

Who plays Center for the Wizards? I know its tanking season but...

[penbeast0]

Muscala and Gallinari, and yes, that's pitiful.

[tontoz]

If we trade Gafford we will just end up trying to find someone similar to replace him. I don't see the point.

I am also not interested in trading Kispert. I think his off ball game will be more valuable as the team improves.