Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[andyhop]

I will admit I am terrible at advanced stats, but I can show that by two man man lineup there offensive rating is near the bottom and their defensive rating is below average.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612750&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=OFF_RATING

Not sure why you think 102.3 is a below average defensive rating but yes they are offensively challenged overall.

Thankfully they have been fixing that lately.

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced?DateFrom=12/01/2023&DateTo=01/06/2024&GroupQuantity=2&TeamID=1610612750&dir=D&slug=advanced&sort=NET_RATING

Why does my search have 107.3 and yours have 114.1?

Yours is the whole season , mine is start of December to now

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

Can we get him?

I haven’t seen him play this season. I looked at his numbers and 41% from the field and 28.2% from deep isn’t super impressive. My question for you is DSJ better than JMAC? Because I don’t see DSJ as a legit backup PG for a contender.

Last season DSJ showed flashes of being an elite defender: tough, physical and athletic. He is not much shooter nor passer.

[shrink]

Last season DSJ showed flashes of being an elite defender: tough, physical and athletic. He is not much shooter nor passer.

Maybe Dennis Smith Jr is finally turning it around, but for years he has been a bust lottery pick disappointed that struggled to even stay in the NBA. He’s been playing on lowly Exhibit 9 deals for several years, and has even been waived on that cheap cheap contract. We can’t extend him, and he doesn’t have any guaranteed salary for next year. I might pick him up if he was waived (which is unlikely to happen), but personally, I wouldn’t want to give up much of anything for him.

[winforlose]

With CP3s hand injury and surgery his odds of being traded went way up. Assuming he is moved and bought out and able to come back in March, do you think he might be a viable 15th man on our roster?

[shrink]

With CP3s hand injury and surgery his odds of being traded went way up. Assuming he is moved and bought out and able to come back in March, do you think he might be a viable 15th man on our roster?

Depending on his behavior, I think he could.

I am very aware how difficult it is to throw lobs to Rudy. Ant still is bad, DLo never figured it out, and it took Conley a full season in Utah before he said he had figured it out. In the entire NBA, probably the second best PG with this ability is Chris Paul, playing so many years with DeAndre Jordan. If we have a PG that keeps Gobert as an offensive threat, not a hinderance, it makes life so much easier for the rest of the team on offense.

[Domejandro]

With CP3s hand injury and surgery his odds of being traded went way up. Assuming he is moved and bought out and able to come back in March, do you think he might be a viable 15th man on our roster?

Forget 15th man, I'm making the dude the sixth man immediately.

Chris Paul is still a MASSIVE positive in limited minutes. The big question would be if he is comfortable joining the team in that role (which could mean not finishing games for the first time in his career). Realistically, he would probably prefer going to the Los Angeles Lakers, once the Lakers trade D'Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, and [insert value] for Zach LaVine.

[winforlose]

With CP3s hand injury and surgery his odds of being traded went way up. Assuming he is moved and bought out and able to come back in March, do you think he might be a viable 15th man on our roster?

Forget 15th man, I'm making the dude the sixth man immediately.

Chris Paul is still a MASSIVE positive in limited minutes. The big question would be if he is comfortable joining the team in that role (which could mean not finishing games for the first time in his career). Realistically, he would probably prefer going to the Los Angeles Lakers, once the Lakers trade D'Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, and [insert value] for Zach LaVine.

CP3 would be joining a low seed who might miss the play in if Lebron or AD get hurt. Whereas with us he would be joining a high seed with a great chance to get him a ring.

[shrink]

With CP3s hand injury and surgery his odds of being traded went way up. Assuming he is moved and bought out and able to come back in March, do you think he might be a viable 15th man on our roster?

Forget 15th man, I'm making the dude the sixth man immediately.

Chris Paul is still a MASSIVE positive in limited minutes. The big question would be if he is comfortable joining the team in that role (which could mean not finishing games for the first time in his career). Realistically, he would probably prefer going to the Los Angeles Lakers, once the Lakers trade D'Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, and [insert value] for Zach LaVine.

CP3 would be joining a low seed who might miss the play in if Lebron or AD get hurt. Whereas with us he would be joining a high seed with a great chance to get him a ring.

I agree. Paul would want to try to sign with the team that gave him the best chance of a ring for his resumė. Even with LAL’s experience, I expect we’re higher up on that list. I would be concerned more if teams like BOS, DEN, MIL or PHI invited him.

[winforlose]

Forget 15th man, I'm making the dude the sixth man immediately.

Chris Paul is still a MASSIVE positive in limited minutes. The big question would be if he is comfortable joining the team in that role (which could mean not finishing games for the first time in his career). Realistically, he would probably prefer going to the Los Angeles Lakers, once the Lakers trade D'Angelo Russell, Rui Hachimura, and [insert value] for Zach LaVine.

CP3 would be joining a low seed who might miss the play in if Lebron or AD get hurt. Whereas with us he would be joining a high seed with a great chance to get him a ring.

I agree. Paul would want to try to sign with the team that gave him the best chance of a ring for his resumė. Even with LAL’s experience, I expect we’re higher up on that list. I would be concerned more if teams like BOS, DEN, MIL or PHI invited him.

He might not see the court much with them. With us we lack a backup PG and he would be prominent in the rotation.

[shrink]

I have some thought to a Tyus Jones trade, and this is what I came up with:

I dove in a little deeper for my own thinking, but lid you haven’t seen it, here’s a peek at just how expensive MIN’s payroll looks like next year.

$49.2 Towns
$43.8 Gobert
$42.6 Edwards ($35.5 if he doesn’t make All NBA)
$22.6 McDaniels
$14.0 Naz Reid
———————————-
$172.2

$142. Salary Cap
$172. Luxury Threshold
$180. First Apron
$191. Second Apron

Wow, right? I think MIN is going over the second apron, accepting those penalties and lux payments in exchange for more money from the public to build a new arena, for better revenues in the future. If money gets tight, I think they sell slivers of franchise ownership - like they just did to the google ceo. But at a certain point over the second apron, the incremental value of another player becomes too expensive to justify.

To me, next year they will bring back Mike Conley. He’s been fantastic, the leader and adult-in-the-room that a team with Ant and KAT need to be successful. MIN will try to get by with more playmaking from Ant, Towns, and Nickiel-Alexander Walker. They will probably try to bring Jordan MacLaughlin back on a vet min, and may try to lock up Jaylen Clark on a Hinkie Special. While I like Tyus a lot, I just don’t think they can get rid of “Minnesota Mike” if the team does anything in the playoffs.

[winforlose]

I have some thought to a Tyus Jones trade, and this is what I came up with:

I dove in a little deeper for my own thinking, but lid you haven’t seen it, here’s a peek at just how expensive MIN’s payroll looks like next year.

$49.2 Towns
$43.8 Gobert
$42.6 Edwards ($35.5 if he doesn’t make All NBA)
$22.6 McDaniels
$14.0 Naz Reid
———————————-
$172.2

$142. Salary Cap
$172. Luxury Threshold
$180. First Apron
$191. Second Apron

Wow, right? I think MIN is going over the second apron, accepting those penalties and lux payments in exchange for more money from the public to build a new arena, for better revenues in the future. If money gets tight, I think they sell slivers of franchise ownership - like they just did to the google ceo. But at a certain point over the second apron, the incremental value of another player becomes too expensive to justify.

To me, next year they will bring back Mike Conley. He’s been fantastic, the leader and adult-in-the-room that a team with Ant and KAT need to be successful. MIN will try to get by with more playmaking from Ant, Towns, and Nickiel-Alexander Walker. They will probably try to bring Jordan MacLaughlin back on a vet min, and may try to lock up Jaylen Clark on a Hinkie Special. While I like Tyus a lot, I just don’t think they can get rid of “Minnesota Mike” if the team does anything in the playoffs.

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I hope Mac Daniels really improve in scoring and defense. 22.6 Millions for what he producce right now if not good enough. But he is young and may improve. I'm totally in for a CP trade if we can do it. Will be a fantastic 6 th men for us and we can be sure he will not hurt Mike .

[winforlose]

I hope Mac Daniels really improve in scoring and defense. 22.6 Millions for what he producce right now if not good enough. But he is young and may improve. I'm totally in for a CP trade if we can do it. Will be a fantastic 6 th men for us and we can be sure he will not hurt Mike .

The whole thing behind CP is a buyout instead of a trade. That way we sign him for the minimum and can still avoid the tax. As for MCD, his numbers have to be considered against the guys he is guarding. Fox, Brunson, SGA, Maxey, are no joke. Then you look at the NYK game and when Randle went off we moved Jaden onto him. Not only does he guard the elite guys, he guards the hot hands. Worse, he guards the guys who get the superstar whistle. I am not saying Jaden cannot improve on defense, but I am saying his numbers might be a bit deceiving.

[andyhop]

I have some thought to a Tyus Jones trade, and this is what I came up with:

I dove in a little deeper for my own thinking, but lid you haven’t seen it, here’s a peek at just how expensive MIN’s payroll looks like next year.

$49.2 Towns
$43.8 Gobert
$42.6 Edwards ($35.5 if he doesn’t make All NBA)
$22.6 McDaniels
$14.0 Naz Reid
———————————-
$172.2

$142. Salary Cap
$172. Luxury Threshold
$180. First Apron
$191. Second Apron

Wow, right? I think MIN is going over the second apron, accepting those penalties and lux payments in exchange for more money from the public to build a new arena, for better revenues in the future. If money gets tight, I think they sell slivers of franchise ownership - like they just did to the google ceo. But at a certain point over the second apron, the incremental value of another player becomes too expensive to justify.

To me, next year they will bring back Mike Conley. He’s been fantastic, the leader and adult-in-the-room that a team with Ant and KAT need to be successful. MIN will try to get by with more playmaking from Ant, Towns, and Nickiel-Alexander Walker. They will probably try to bring Jordan MacLaughlin back on a vet min, and may try to lock up Jaylen Clark on a Hinkie Special. While I like Tyus a lot, I just don’t think they can get rid of “Minnesota Mike” if the team does anything in the playoffs.

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

Work out a likely tax bill for Tyus and the answer is probably no.

[younggunsmn]

I have some thought to a Tyus Jones trade, and this is what I came up with:

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

Work out a likely tax bill for Tyus and the answer is probably no.

Yes paying Tyus 10 million (not going to be near that cheap) costs ownership like 50 million in real world money.
15 million and you're talking like 70 million.

Do you get the picture now?

Tyus is not good enough to be a starting point guard on a contending team but too expensive to add as a backup for a luxury tax paying team without an owner with bottomless pockets.

Do we spend that much on Conley if we make a deep playoff run next year? There's a chance.
Tyus? Absolutely not.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I think bringing a Tyus player at this cost can only be done if we can move Slomo, Troy or Shake. Not easy to make and not necessary the move we need.

[winforlose]

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

Work out a likely tax bill for Tyus and the answer is probably no.

Yes paying Tyus 10 million (not going to be near that cheap) costs ownership like 50 million in real world money.
15 million and you're talking like 70 million.

Do you get the picture now?

Tyus is not good enough to be a starting point guard on a contending team but too expensive to add as a backup for a luxury tax paying team without an owner with bottomless pockets.

Do we spend that much on Conley if we make a deep playoff run next year? There's a chance.
Tyus? Absolutely not.

Tyus is at minimum the same as Conley this year. He is having a break out year. Beyond that our last 3 attempts to find the PG of the future failed miserably. Not even counting JMAC, we had WMJ fail to develop, Shake implode, and Nix not able to even crack the rotation when JMAC was out with literally no other PG behind Conley. I get that people think the PG is a dying breed in the modern NBA, but I couldn’t disagree more. We can draft someone at 26th or later and there is no guarantee they will be rotation worthy in two years let alone starter level. Meanwhile Mike will be 37 and JMAC isn’t even on the roster at this point, and might not want to stay. Your argument that Tyus costs us 70 is missing the point that someone will cost it. The only alternative is going with a vet minimum and that is beyond risky. Look at Shake, that was a 5 million MLE. You don’t build a team the way they built this team without being willing to pay that kind of tax money.

[minimus]

While I like Kevin Huerter a lot (despite his brutal shooting, this season), trading Kyle Anderson, Shake Milton, and Troy Brown Jr. for him - while eating his poor contact - would require some incentive. My guess is that Sacramento is gearing up to make a big splash.

Yeah Sacramento screams 'big splash' to me too. I could actually see them in the Siakam sweepstakes, or someone like that.

We should sit there like Piranha's trying to get value as the 3rd team like we did with the Dlo-to-Lakers deal.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-kings-pull-out-of-pascal-siakam-talks-hawks-making-dejounte-murray-available/

Kings pull out of Pascal Siakam talks; Hawks making Dejounte Murray available

I have a question is there any realistic way to get Huerter NOW for and avoid repeater tax next season? For instance,

For instance, we act as third team, trade Kyle Anderson, Milton for Huerter and POR 2025 SRP from SAC?

I hate Huerter contract, but he is a shooter who can make many things work. For instance, Gobert screen assists, Edwards kickout passing, our off ball movement etc.

Gobert/Towns + Garza
Towns/Reid + Miller
McDaniels/TBJ/Minott
Edwards/Huerter/NAW
Conley/NAW/McLaughlin

Next year if Jaylen Clarke can hit an open three, we will have Gobert-McDaniels-NAW-Clarke defensive group to cover Huerter defensive problems. And I am sure Finch can use some shooting from the bench like he did with Beasley two seasons ago.

[Domejandro]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns and Shake Milton for Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson would you do it?

Mike Conley / Jordan Clarkson / Jordan McLaughlin / Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Wendell Moore Jr.
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Josh Minott
Lauri Markkanen / Kyle Anderson / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Luka Garza (2WP)

That trade would shave off a staggering $17.1MM next season, provide Minnesota an elite gunner off of the bench (best in the NBA, in that role), and get a more off-ball oriented All-Star to put next to Anthony Edwards. Lauri Markkanen is worse than Karl-Anthony Towns both defensively and at passing, but Minnesota's financials are currently frightening.

(Note: This obviously would be a three-team situation where the third team prefers Karl-Anthony Towns to Lauri Markkanen.)

[minimus]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns and Shake Milton for Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson would you do it?

Mike Conley / Jordan Clarkson / Jordan McLaughlin / Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Wendell Moore Jr.
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Josh Minott
Lauri Markkanen / Kyle Anderson / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Luka Garza (2WP)

That trade would shave off a staggering $17.1MM next season, provide Minnesota an elite gunner off of the bench (best in the NBA, in that role), and get a more off-ball oriented All-Star to put next to Anthony Edwards. Lauri Markkanen is worse than Karl-Anthony Towns both defensively and at passing, but Minnesota's financials are currently frightening.

(Note: This obviously would be a three-team situation where the third team prefers Karl-Anthony Towns to Lauri Markkanen.)

Markkanen has 18mil next season, which stabilise our financial situation for one more year. Clarkson has two more full years of 28/2 extension, which gives us two years of services of battle tested bench scorer.

I like this idea a lot, however I would prefer Towns going East. I also doubt UTA want Towns. Maybe we can make it this way:

MIN IN: Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson, 2024 FRP from NYK
MIN OUT: Towns, Milton, Moore Jr.

NYK IN: Towns, Milton, Moore Jr.
NYK OUT: Randle, Fournier, three 2024 FRPs

UTA IN: Randle, Fournier, two 2024 FRPs
UTA OUT: Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson