Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I will make it. Lauri is huge and we save money.

[winforlose]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns and Shake Milton for Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson would you do it?

Mike Conley / Jordan Clarkson / Jordan McLaughlin / Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Wendell Moore Jr.
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Josh Minott
Lauri Markkanen / Kyle Anderson / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Luka Garza (2WP)

That trade would shave off a staggering $17.1MM next season, provide Minnesota an elite gunner off of the bench (best in the NBA, in that role), and get a more off-ball oriented All-Star to put next to Anthony Edwards. Lauri Markkanen is worse than Karl-Anthony Towns both defensively and at passing, but Minnesota's financials are currently frightening.

(Note: This obviously would be a three-team situation where the third team prefers Karl-Anthony Towns to Lauri Markkanen.)

Not sure about Clarkson, but Markkanen is the obvious KAT replacement. The reasons that people would prioritize KAT over Markkanen are as follows.

1. While KAT does make the supermax, it is 4 years of control whereas Markkanen only has 1 more.

2. KAT has multiple All Star seasons and is a former all NBA center, Markkanen was a career role player with a breakout season last year. That he is repeating those numbers this year is encouraging, but let’s not forgot those are best numbers on a bad team. KAT has had solid numbers on every kind of team.

3. KAT’s defense has been solid this year. He has established that he can play the PF, defend in space, coexist with another big, and score at all 3 levels.

Markkanen is a great KAT replacement for us, but he is still a step backwards. That is why the guard we acquire has to bridge the gap and push us forwards. I have my doubts it is Clarkson, but I am open to the possibility it is.

[TimberKat]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns and Shake Milton for Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson would you do it?

Mike Conley / Jordan Clarkson / Jordan McLaughlin / Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Wendell Moore Jr.
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Josh Minott
Lauri Markkanen / Kyle Anderson / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Luka Garza (2WP)

That trade would shave off a staggering $17.1MM next season, provide Minnesota an elite gunner off of the bench (best in the NBA, in that role), and get a more off-ball oriented All-Star to put next to Anthony Edwards. Lauri Markkanen is worse than Karl-Anthony Towns both defensively and at passing, but Minnesota's financials are currently frightening.

(Note: This obviously would be a three-team situation where the third team prefers Karl-Anthony Towns to Lauri Markkanen.)

Not sure about Clarkson, but Markkanen is the obvious KAT replacement. The reasons that people would prioritize KAT over Markkanen are as follows.

1. While KAT does make the supermax, it is 4 years of control whereas Markkanen only has 1 more.

2. KAT has multiple All Star seasons and is a former all NBA center, Markkanen was a career role player with a breakout season last year. That he is repeating those numbers this year is encouraging, but let’s not forgot those are best numbers on a bad team. KAT has had solid numbers on every kind of team.

3. KAT’s defense has been solid this year. He has established that he can play the PF, defend in space, coexist with another big, and score at all 3 levels.

Markkanen is a great KAT replacement for us, but he is still a step backwards. That is why the guard we acquire has to bridge the gap and push us forwards. I have my doubts it is Clarkson, but I am open to the possibility it is.

I think we could get more back than Clarkson+ picks. Maybe Markkanen + DeJounte Murray or KD or AD for Towns.

[winforlose]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns and Shake Milton for Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson would you do it?

Mike Conley / Jordan Clarkson / Jordan McLaughlin / Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Wendell Moore Jr.
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Josh Minott
Lauri Markkanen / Kyle Anderson / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Luka Garza (2WP)

That trade would shave off a staggering $17.1MM next season, provide Minnesota an elite gunner off of the bench (best in the NBA, in that role), and get a more off-ball oriented All-Star to put next to Anthony Edwards. Lauri Markkanen is worse than Karl-Anthony Towns both defensively and at passing, but Minnesota's financials are currently frightening.

(Note: This obviously would be a three-team situation where the third team prefers Karl-Anthony Towns to Lauri Markkanen.)

Not sure about Clarkson, but Markkanen is the obvious KAT replacement. The reasons that people would prioritize KAT over Markkanen are as follows.

1. While KAT does make the supermax, it is 4 years of control whereas Markkanen only has 1 more.

2. KAT has multiple All Star seasons and is a former all NBA center, Markkanen was a career role player with a breakout season last year. That he is repeating those numbers this year is encouraging, but let’s not forgot those are best numbers on a bad team. KAT has had solid numbers on every kind of team.

3. KAT’s defense has been solid this year. He has established that he can play the PF, defend in space, coexist with another big, and score at all 3 levels.

Markkanen is a great KAT replacement for us, but he is still a step backwards. That is why the guard we acquire has to bridge the gap and push us forwards. I have my doubts it is Clarkson, but I am open to the possibility it is.

I think we could get more back than Clarkson+ picks. Maybe Markkanen + DeJounte Murray or KD or AD for Towns.

Point taken. I disagree with your point, but I hear you.

[KGdaBom]

Not sure about Clarkson, but Markkanen is the obvious KAT replacement. The reasons that people would prioritize KAT over Markkanen are as follows.

1. While KAT does make the supermax, it is 4 years of control whereas Markkanen only has 1 more.

2. KAT has multiple All Star seasons and is a former all NBA center, Markkanen was a career role player with a breakout season last year. That he is repeating those numbers this year is encouraging, but let’s not forgot those are best numbers on a bad team. KAT has had solid numbers on every kind of team.

3. KAT’s defense has been solid this year. He has established that he can play the PF, defend in space, coexist with another big, and score at all 3 levels.

Markkanen is a great KAT replacement for us, but he is still a step backwards. That is why the guard we acquire has to bridge the gap and push us forwards. I have my doubts it is Clarkson, but I am open to the possibility it is.

I think we could get more back than Clarkson+ picks. Maybe Markkanen + DeJounte Murray or KD or AD for Towns.

Point taken. I disagree with your point, but I hear you.

Without considering contractual conditions because I don't know them, if we could get Markkanen and D Murray for KAT I'd be packing his bags for him.

[winforlose]

I think we could get more back than Clarkson+ picks. Maybe Markkanen + DeJounte Murray or KD or AD for Towns.

Point taken. I disagree with your point, but I hear you.

Without considering contractual conditions because I don't know them, if we could get Markkanen and D Murray for KAT I'd be packing his bags for him.

His point is that I am over valuing KAT. That said, I think the gap between KAT and Markkanen is big enough to warrant a substantial guard coming back. That doesn’t mean an all star or a teams top trade bait. It does mean instead of 3 teams with the Knicks open it up to 4. Send Clarkson or whoever Utah is willing to send to a different team and bring back a better fit.

[shrink]

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

1. Yes, the NBA won’t know what the exact figure is until the end of the season, and for whatever reason, they have chosen a modest estimate of a 4.4% increase. It will probably be higher, and it could be much higher. However, expecting some big gains, the NBA capped the amount it could rise to 10%, so the second apron could be $201. However, we wouldn’t get $10 mil more in space under the second apron. Ant and KAT’s extensions are tied to the salary cap, so they would use up close to half of it.

2. What do we consider a discount? Both Conley and Tyus are NBA starting PG’s. At a minimum, I think that means they get more than the MLE, so let’s say a discount is $15 each.

$49.2 Towns
$43.8 Gobert
$42.6 Edwards ($35.5 if he doesn’t make All NBA)
$22.6 McDaniels
$14.0 Naz Reid
$15.0 Conley
$15.0 Tyus Jones
$4.3 NAW
$2.1 MacLaughlin (vet min)
$1.9 Miller
$2.0 Minott

That’s 11, we need three more. Maybe ..

$4.0 Troy Brown Jr (good contract)
$1.8 Jaylen Clark (Hinkie Special)
$2.5 Wendell Moore Jr (guaranteed, if not trade). [EDIT: #26 pick (est) would start at about $2.4 with its 20% bonus.]
——————————————-
$213.8

Exchanging Tyus for vet min deal knocks $13 mil off the payroll. But I would guess that $13 mil off the payroll is around $70 million actual dollars.

[winforlose]

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

1. Yes, the NBA won’t know what the exact figure is until the end of the season, and for whatever reason, they have chosen a modest estimate of a 4.4% increase. It will probably be higher, and it could be much higher. However, expecting some big gains, the NBA capped the amount it could rise to 10%, so the second apron could be $201. However, we wouldn’t get $10 mil more in space under the second apron. Ant and KAT’s extensions are tied to the salary cap, so they would use up close to half of it.

2. What do we consider a discount? Both Conley and Tyus are NBA starting PG’s. At a minimum, I think that means they get more than the MLE, so let’s say a discount is $15 each.

$49.2 Towns
$43.8 Gobert
$42.6 Edwards ($35.5 if he doesn’t make All NBA)
$22.6 McDaniels
$14.0 Naz Reid
$15.0 Conley
$15.0 Tyus Jones
$4.3 NAW
$2.1 MacLaughlin (vet min)
$1.9 Miller
$2.0 Minott

That’s 11, we need three more. Maybe ..

$4.0 Troy Brown Jr (good contract)
$1.8 Jaylen Clark (Hinkie Special)
$2.5 Wendell Moore Jr (not traded)
——————————————-
$213.8

Exchanging Tyus for vet min deal knocks $13 mil off the payroll. But I would guess that $13 mil off the payroll is around $70 million actual dollars.

I don’t think Mike would demand 15 if we got close or won the whole thing. Maybe he does 10/10 with a player option, especially if he wants to win again. Tyus would be around 15.

You forgot our first round pick.

Edit to add: This is not a roster you put together to duck the 2nd apron. The Wolves front office negotiated for Naz, and Jaden to stay and get real money. They knew full well they would need to resign Mike and would likely lose Kyle (unless Kyle takes a pay cut to stay and get his full bird rights.) As I mentioned before the extra revenue from having a contender will help offset some of the extra cost.

[shrink]

I think we could get more back than Clarkson+ picks. Maybe Markkanen + DeJounte Murray or KD or AD for Towns.

I agree. Towns is a two-time All NBA player, having one of his best seasons ever. This year, he has overcome his two main criticisms (no defense, team can’t win). I don’t think we should trade Towns, but something like this would be too hard for me to decline.

MIN GIVES: Towns + Leonard Miller
MIN GETS: Markannen + DeJounte Murray

ATL GIVES: DeJounte Murray + DeAndre Hunter + Jalen Johnson
ATL GETS: Towns

UTA GIVES: Markannen
UTA GETS: Jalen Johnson + Leonard Miller + DeAndre Hunter

ATL gets Trae a second superstar who is willing to defer, and keeps Capella to emulate what we do.

UTA gets the young Jalen Johnson, who is having a break out season as a starter 15/8, 40% 3P. Miller is a flier

[jpatrick]

Towns is really good. He seems to have gotten his emotions under control, at least better, this year. But I think we’re overvaluing is trade value here. His contract is huge. He’s not a #1 option on a championship team. And he’s a hard fit defensively, not able to protect the rim at center or guard driving PFs on the perimeter. He fits well here in large part because of Gobert’s defensive abilities.

I think he has more trade value than Lauri but not by that much, if at all. I think some teams would prefer Lauri, especially since his new contract will be at a lower number.

He has more trade value than Jalen Johnson. But Johnson is what teams are looking for now. Johnson and Murray, as a combination, has a significantly higher trade value than Towns. If Atlanta would give us that combo for Towns, I’d pack Towns bags right now.

[minimus]

I think we could get more back than Clarkson+ picks. Maybe Markkanen + DeJounte Murray or KD or AD for Towns.

I agree. Towns is a two-time All NBA player, having one of his best seasons ever. This year, he has overcome his two main criticisms (no defense, team can’t win). I don’t think we should trade Towns, but something like this would be too hard for me to decline.

MIN GIVES: Towns + Leonard Miller
MIN GETS: Markannen + DeJounte Murray

ATL GIVES: DeJounte Murray + DeAndre Hunter + Jalen Johnson
ATL GETS: Towns

UTA GIVES: Markannen
UTA GETS: Jalen Johnson + Leonard Miller + DeAndre Hunter

ATL gets Trae a second superstar who is willing to defer, and keeps Capella to emulate what we do.

UTA gets the young Jalen Johnson, who is having a break out season as a starter 15/8, 40% 3P. Miller is a flier

I am not sure I want DeJounte Murray's game and personality here... From multiple reports he does not look like a winning player.

[shrink]

Johnson and Murray, as a combination, has a significantly higher trade value than Towns. If Atlanta would give us that combo for Towns, I’d pack Towns bags right now.

The trade gets them off Hunter’s money too. We can’t afford it, but Utah can, and might be able to rehab his value.

But I understand this is a big swing, as any Towns trade should be, so people should have bigger opinions about it.

[winforlose]

Towns is really good. He seems to have gotten his emotions under control, at least better, this year. But I think we’re overvaluing is trade value here. His contract is huge. He’s not a #1 option on a championship team. And he’s a hard fit defensively, not able to protect the rim at center or guard driving PFs on the perimeter. He fits well here in large part because of Gobert’s defensive abilities.

I think he has more trade value than Lauri but not by that much, if at all. I think some teams would prefer Lauri, especially since his new contract will be at a lower number.

He has more trade value than Jalen Johnson. But Johnson is what teams are looking for now. Johnson and Murray, as a combination, has a significantly higher trade value than Towns. If Atlanta would give us that combo for Towns, I’d pack Towns bags right now.

I think you are undervaluing the 5 years of control. The money will even out as the cap rises in the next few years. Karl might not be the rim protector that Rudy is, but he defends in space and has proven he can blow by PFs as well as Cs on the way to the rim. Jalen Johnson is emerging, but has not emerged yet. Murray is the 2nd best player on the 11th seed in the East. I think you are the one undervaluing the 21.4/9.1/3 big with 50.4/39.7/89.7% splits.

[minimus]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns, Shake Milton and Moore for Andrew Nembhard, Buddy Hield, Bruce Brown and 2024, 2025 and 2027 FRPs would you do it?

Mike Conley / Andrew Nembhard / Jordan McLaughlin / Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Bruce Brown
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Buddy Hield + Josh Minott
Naz Reid / Kyle Anderson / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Luka Garza (2WP)

Make another trade to balance roster, for instance:

Bruce Brown for DFS, Royce O'Neal

Mike Conley / Andrew Nembhard / Jordan McLaughlin + Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Buddy Hield
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Royce O'Neal + Josh Minott
DFS / Naz Reid / Kyle Anderson + Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid + Luka Garza (2WP)

[shrink]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns, Shake Milton and Moore for Andrew Nembhard, Buddy Hield, Bruce Brown and 2024, 2025 and 2027 FRPs would you do it?

No. IND fans may like Nembhard, but he wasn’t good enough to even be a starter at the beginning of the season. But mainly, Hield and Brown are mediocre, and might not be worth their contracts. The value of this trade comes from picks, and I think with the hot start that the Wolves have had, any Towns trade needs to bring back legitimate win-now talent, both for the fanbase, the new owners, and any hope for public funding of a new arena.

[twolves31]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns, Shake Milton and Moore for Andrew Nembhard, Buddy Hield, Bruce Brown and 2024, 2025 and 2027 FRPs would you do it?

Mike Conley / Andrew Nembhard / Jordan McLaughlin / Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Bruce Brown
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Buddy Hield + Josh Minott
Naz Reid / Kyle Anderson / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid / Luka Garza (2WP)

Make another trade to balance roster, for instance:

Bruce Brown for DFS, Royce O'Neal

Mike Conley / Andrew Nembhard / Jordan McLaughlin + Daishen Nix (2WP)
Anthony Edwards / Nickeil Alexander-Walker / Buddy Hield
Jaden McDaniels / Troy Brown Jr. / Royce O'Neal + Josh Minott
DFS / Naz Reid / Kyle Anderson + Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Naz Reid + Luka Garza (2WP)

This season? You would be one big injury away which would turn into a 10 game losing streak where we might not make the playoffs.

[winforlose]

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

Warning: Karl-Anthony Towns trade.

If you could swap Karl-Anthony Towns, Shake Milton and Moore for Andrew Nembhard, Buddy Hield, Bruce Brown and 2024, 2025 and 2027 FRPs would you do it?

No. IND fans may like Nembhard, but he wasn’t good enough to even be a starter at the beginning of the season. But mainly, Hield and Brown are mediocre, and might not be worth their contracts. The value of this trade comes from picks, and I think with the hot start that the Wolves have had, any Towns trade needs to bring back legitimate win-now talent, both for the fanbase, the new owners, and any hope for public funding of a new arena.

100% this. If you want to trade a bench player for an inferior bench player and a young player that is one thing. That trade is either Kyle, NAW, or Naz. But a Karl trade is absolutely win now talent.

[Domejandro]

I think we could get more back than Clarkson+ picks. Maybe Markkanen + DeJounte Murray or KD or AD for Towns.

I agree. Towns is a two-time All NBA player, having one of his best seasons ever. This year, he has overcome his two main criticisms (no defense, team can’t win). I don’t think we should trade Towns, but something like this would be too hard for me to decline.

MIN GIVES: Towns + Leonard Miller
MIN GETS: Markannen + DeJounte Murray

ATL GIVES: DeJounte Murray + DeAndre Hunter + Jalen Johnson
ATL GETS: Towns

UTA GIVES: Markannen
UTA GETS: Jalen Johnson + Leonard Miller + DeAndre Hunter

ATL gets Trae a second superstar who is willing to defer, and keeps Capella to emulate what we do.

UTA gets the young Jalen Johnson, who is having a break out season as a starter 15/8, 40% 3P. Miller is a flier

1. Atlanta has reportedly made Jalen Johnson untouchable (alongside Trae Young). This specific variation is chalked, albeit maybe you could cook up a scenario where Atlanta kicks in picks instead of him.

2. I’ll be honest, I think you guys are somewhat overestimating the value gap between Karl-Anthony Towns and Lauri Markkanen. The value is the massive difference in owed salary that empowers Minnesota to resign other players under the Second Apron (and get a former Sixth Man of the Year who can sporadically drop thirty). I think once you expand beyond that, you start to get really lost in the sauce on what teams would offer.

I could be wrong, but that’s my perspective. I don’t think Utah is trading Lauri Markkanen unless they are getting a haul (which is subsidized by a team that prefers the long-term security of Towns’ contract, even if overpaid).

[cmoss84]

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

1. Yes, the NBA won’t know what the exact figure is until the end of the season, and for whatever reason, they have chosen a modest estimate of a 4.4% increase. It will probably be higher, and it could be much higher. However, expecting some big gains, the NBA capped the amount it could rise to 10%, so the second apron could be $201. However, we wouldn’t get $10 mil more in space under the second apron. Ant and KAT’s extensions are tied to the salary cap, so they would use up close to half of it.

2. What do we consider a discount? Both Conley and Tyus are NBA starting PG’s. At a minimum, I think that means they get more than the MLE, so let’s say a discount is $15 each.

$49.2 Towns
$43.8 Gobert
$42.6 Edwards ($35.5 if he doesn’t make All NBA)
$22.6 McDaniels
$14.0 Naz Reid
$15.0 Conley
$15.0 Tyus Jones
$4.3 NAW
$2.1 MacLaughlin (vet min)
$1.9 Miller
$2.0 Minott

That’s 11, we need three more. Maybe ..

$4.0 Troy Brown Jr (good contract)
$1.8 Jaylen Clark (Hinkie Special)
$2.5 Wendell Moore Jr (guaranteed, if not trade). [EDIT: #26 pick (est) would start at about $2.4 with its 20% bonus.]
——————————————-
$213.8

Exchanging Tyus for vet min deal knocks $13 mil off the payroll. But I would guess that $13 mil off the payroll is around $70 million actual dollars.

So if we were to trade SloMo, Shake, and WMJ for Tyus...and if Ant doesn't make his bonus, we would be $7 over using your figures for next year? And there is a possibility cap increase would cover that?
Do 14/15 both have to count against the cap if we sign 1st and 2nd rd picks?
Sorry for rambling and thanks for any feedback!

[shrink]

Two questions

1. Isn’t it possible that the cap increases up to 10%? I just looked at a hoops rumors article from November and it said that those projections are for 4.4%. I gotta believe they go up a bit.

2. Let’s say we bring Mike back at a discount (not specifying the number yet.) Then we have all our starters back plus NAW, Naz, Minott, Moore, Miller, TBJ, and our new first round pick player. By my count that is 12. Assume JMAC is back that is 13. The only thing stopping us from signing Tyus to a bird rights deal is the amount of tax we pay? If this is true, and we are a second apron team anyway, wouldn’t securing the future for the next 2-3 years and the increased revenue that follows from that be worth paying the higher number?

1. Yes, the NBA won’t know what the exact figure is until the end of the season, and for whatever reason, they have chosen a modest estimate of a 4.4% increase. It will probably be higher, and it could be much higher. However, expecting some big gains, the NBA capped the amount it could rise to 10%, so the second apron could be $201. However, we wouldn’t get $10 mil more in space under the second apron. Ant and KAT’s extensions are tied to the salary cap, so they would use up close to half of it.

2. What do we consider a discount? Both Conley and Tyus are NBA starting PG’s. At a minimum, I think that means they get more than the MLE, so let’s say a discount is $15 each.

$49.2 Towns
$43.8 Gobert
$42.6 Edwards ($35.5 if he doesn’t make All NBA)
$22.6 McDaniels
$14.0 Naz Reid
$15.0 Conley
$15.0 Tyus Jones
$4.3 NAW
$2.1 MacLaughlin (vet min)
$1.9 Miller
$2.0 Minott

That’s 11, we need three more. Maybe ..

$4.0 Troy Brown Jr (good contract)
$1.8 Jaylen Clark (Hinkie Special)
$2.5 Wendell Moore Jr (guaranteed, if not trade). [EDIT: #26 pick (est) would start at about $2.4 with its 20% bonus.]
——————————————-
$213.8

Exchanging Tyus for vet min deal knocks $13 mil off the payroll. But I would guess that $13 mil off the payroll is around $70 million actual dollars.

So if we were to trade SloMo, Shake, and WMJ for Tyus...and if Ant doesn't make his bonus, we would be $7 over using your figures for next year? And there is a possibility cap increase would cover that?

These numbers are based on a second apron at $191, so we would be about $15 mil over.. If the full 10% leap lifted the second apron to $201, KAT and Ant’s numbers jump too, so the $10 mil in extra room only saves us $5 mil.

The key here is that paying two PG’s $30 mil is tough. I don’t see one year over the second apron as impossible, but there are extra restrictions and a whole lot more luxury tax.

Do 14/15 both have to count against the cap if we sign 1st and 2nd rd picks?

I’m not sure I’m following, but I can tell you that we need to get to 14 roster spots. Whether we use WMJ or the 1st next year as #14 costs about the same. We need salaried players to make our roster minimums, and if we sign our 1st or 2nds, they count against the cap. Two-ways wouldn’t do either. Does that help?