Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread

[T-d0t]

Losing Pascal for nothing would be brutal. Trent is almost a lock to be traded after getting IQ/RJ. Can't be paying a 7th man starter money

[YoungG]

Dunleavy explaining to him why making a win-now move doesn't make for the Warriors.

Good. I don't want the Warriors trash anyways.

Kuminga is not good

Kuminga's Stats Tonight;

Points: 13 (5/13 FGA - 1/5 3PT)
Rebounds: 4
Assists: 4
Steals: 1
Blocks: 1
Mins: 25

I've never seen the hype. Kuminga, unfortunately, fits within the Raptors old M.O. of finding an athletic specimen and then trying to teach that specimen how to shoot and play basketball at the professional level. I'd be more excited to just get hoopers who have the fundamentals down and can play without constantly getting rattled.

[TorontoBarneys]

Kings got spanked by 33 in a blowout loss and Keegan was awful.

Maybe more games like that and he stops being untouchable?

[Zeno]

Was Dennis giving Wiggins a pep talk at one point?

[LoveMyRaps]

Kings got spanked by 33 in a blowout loss and Keegan was awful.

Maybe more games like that and he stops being untouchable?

Back to back mid games for Jalen Johnson as well.

[ItsDanger]

Bobby/Masai always make the California trip? LMAO

[Pointgod]

Makes no sense for Pascal to sign an extension. If Masai is dumb enough to offer a max deal now, then yeah I can see him accept it. But he knows that once he’s a free agent, like what happened to FVV, he’s gonna get that big deal. Signing an extension kills his chances for that.

Unless he REALLY loves TO…which I doubt.

He won't sign an extension now. All we'd be able to offer is 4 years, which while he'd get less money overall, he could get those years from a team he actually wants to play on. We also can't offer a 5 year until the offseason.

So it really comes down to this: if you aren't willing to pay 5yrs/$260M to Siakam, you need to trade him for whatever you can get right now. Because if he becomes a free agent and you aren't willing to offer the 5 year max, he'll take a 4 year deal from someone else.

Do you want a GM job?

[T-d0t]

Kings got spanked by 33 in a blowout loss and Keegan was awful.

Maybe more games like that and he stops being untouchable?

Back to back mid games for Jalen Johnson as well.

If all are on the table, who are you taking and why?

Keegan
Jalen Johnson
Trey Murphy

[nivisi9]

Kings got spanked by 33 in a blowout loss and Keegan was awful.

Maybe more games like that and he stops being untouchable?

Back to back mid games for Jalen Johnson as well.

If all are on the table, who are you taking and why?

Keegan
Jalen Johnson
Trey Murphy

1) Keegan - because of the elite and high volume 3pt shooting + creation potential is most valuable. Will become a bonafide scoring option guaranteed.

2) Jalen Johnson - All around ability and size + creation + playmaking

3) Trey Murphy - more elite pure 3+D

[hype_2004]

Kings got spanked by 33 in a blowout loss and Keegan was awful.

Maybe more games like that and he stops being untouchable?

They were extremely hot shooting the three last game, that was an anomaly otherwise we beat them handily.

[Andrew_M08]

Nevermind no trade needed

No trade needed indeed

LOL ya'll talk like it's just as easy as snapping our fingers & Pascal signs an extension...

As if the dude doesn't have AT LEAST 2 better options that he can sign the max with next year ie/ IND but more importantly PHI. You know the place his longtime personal trainer works, the same place with his former coach is, where his personal friend & proud fellow countrymen and MVP level player Joel Embiid is PLUS Tyrese Maxey to make an IMMEDIATE legit title contender...

Why the hell is he passing on that to come back to a team that has been struggling just to make a PlayIn for a FO that cut off their communication from him last summer, has VERY openly shopped him for 2 straight years, had the President of the team say at the presser that he'd have to "prove" himself, has not been offered an extension and also never mentions your name in regards to the futre but just continues to say it's about building around Scottie...I mean it, really think about that. He doesn't say Pascal & Scottie, the 2 best players on the team & even discusses IQ being brought in to play with Scottie, again leave Pascal's name out. Why tf would Pascal want to return to all that disrespect short of us paying the absolute most dollars available?! There is MASSIVE chance Pascal walks for absolutely nothing, that's an insane risk to take when you've also done NOTHING to even win some goodwill with him & try to make him feel wanted. Its just ignorant & arrogant to so foolishly assume" you can just treat someone poorly when they can have a FAR better situation not only as an option but that will be begging him to join. That's ridiculous really...

The franchise literally can NOT afford that...they're about to give IQ a HUGE pay increase, RJ is a big contract, Yak has a bloated contract, Scottie is without question getting the max. So they're they're gonna become a lux tax/repeat offender team for what exactly?!? The team could be ok but they're not even close to being a title contender & you're completely out of dollars to improve the roster. It doesn't make dollars & doesn't make sense.

A trade IS needed.

Well said

[PhilBlackson]

I know our FO wants to try & create as much leverage as possible by waiting out some teams but they have to have their own internal deadline that is WELL before the deadline & I still believe sooner is better...you just CAN NOT take the risk that Pascal's camp blows up all trade leverage by saying that they'll only "re-sign" (which I would believe is a blatant lie/PR move to have the fans turn on him especially down the stretch of the season) OR sign with PHI, then it's completely game over and right NOW we're just FORTUNATE, he hasn't taken it that far....YET. I 1000% believe he will pull that stunt & tank his trade value so do it ASAP before he gets that chance...

I'd give it maybe another week but you have to be proactive & beat him and his camp to the punch!

I know Jarace Walker isn't maybe your "dream target" but he has the potential to be a DAMN good player! I honestly believe that long term he can be every bit as good as Pascal, if not better. He can become a better defender, is a better passer and he's already shown/showing he has a MUCH more promising 3pt shot than Pascal. I think somewhat ironically although people here lazily compare him to OG, I think defensively that would be correct but I actually think he has the potential to offensively be at Pascal's level, almost like being a hybrid of the 2. That may not be a superstar but that would be one helluva player. Then you have the other pieces/players to help better fill out the roster PLUS the IND pick + DET pick. You have the chance to actually create a far more balanced & sustainable roster.

Put it this way, I'd say potential wise IQ > FVV, Scottie > Pascal & Jarace > OG. At worst you should have a juiced up version of your previous "core" and each guy has the potential to be substantially better with a better, more balanced roster that can work to fit more cohesively, just seems like common sense to me at this point to pull the trigger.

The downside would set us back for years and more importantly waste majority of Scottie's next & would likely end up being LAST contract here. Can't take that kinda of insane risk at completely blowing your future on being completely overconfident especially when it's totally unfounded.

[Childs]

Bobby/Masai always make the California trip? LMAO

Given the weather here, I would

[Psubs]

Back to back mid games for Jalen Johnson as well.

If all are on the table, who are you taking and why?

Keegan
Jalen Johnson
Trey Murphy

1) Keegan - because of the elite and high volume 3pt shooting + creation potential is most valuable. Will become a bonafide scoring option guaranteed.

2) Jalen Johnson - All around ability and size + creation + playmaking

3) Trey Murphy - more elite pure 3+D

Keegan in the last bad game when he wasn't scoring, he wasn't doing much of anything else. He's like he's going to be a max player that doesn't really help the team win.

[KrazyP]

The we must trade Pascal because of his age thing is overrated.

The Wolves recognized they had a special talent in young Anthony Edwards so they went out and got old guys Conley/Gorbert and actually kept Towns who's approaching 30.

The Suns recongized they had a special talent in young Devin Booker but were a middling team until they decided to get mid 30s Paul and then got even more aggressive and got mid 30s Durant.

When the Bucks were building a team for young Giannis, they werent focused on youth, they slowly added vets like Jrue and Lopez to push forward.

Even the Celtics with the Jays were focused on talent around their youth regardless of age.

When Embiid was 23, 24ish, the 76ers got aggressive and traded for a 30 yr old Jimmy Butler...they just werent smart enough to keep/pay him.

If the Raps view Barnes as a special talent which I think they do, they should be looking to add the best fits around him for the next 3-4 yr window regardless of age....especially now that there looks to be some other young players on the roster that also have some upside.

With Siakam, the questions in my mind are:

(1) Fit.
Can Siakam and Barnes co-exist? The jury is still out on that one....the team certainly looks a lot better now then how they looked pre-trade....a lot of the issues before had to do with horrible spacing and an overall dearth of complimentary offensive talent.

(2) Does Siakam want to be here?
Management labeled him as "selfish" in the offseason and didnt extend him....why would he even want to stay? Ujiri/Webster kind of playing with fire giving him the Lowry treatment from a decade ago.....prove it, before we pay you?

(3) Is there a trade out there for the Raps that even makes sense?
Trading for middling prospects from middling teams or future draft picks isnt really going to move the yardstick forward all that much.

(4) Cap situation -
The cap is somewhat of a concern but its rising steadily so its something that can be worked around.

[PhilBlackson]

Kings got spanked by 33 in a blowout loss and Keegan was awful.

Maybe more games like that and he stops being untouchable?

Back to back mid games for Jalen Johnson as well.

If all are on the table, who are you taking and why?

Keegan
Jalen Johnson
Trey Murphy

Tre Murphy
Jalen Johnson
Keegan Murray

Although I personally believe Johnson has the most upside, it's extremely hard to pass on the PERFECT fit Trey Murphy is, who is basically an even better version of Keegan imo. They're both great shooters but I'd still give the edge to Murphy as he's 40% year in & year out...Keegan is a 36.8% right now and Murphy is 89% from the FT line vs Keegan's 78%. Trey is truly a pure shooter PLUS he can do a bit more off the dribble than Keegan.

Again I think Jalen could actually have the most star potential, his game actually reminds me a TON of Scottie's. Maybe not quite the level of passer but still a good one. But that shot is improving just like Scottie's. It's tough to pass on the idea of having Scottie & basically Scottie-somewhat light lol.

The only reason I can pass on that is Trey's potential imo isn't THAT far off from JJ's BUT damn would he ever fit like glove with Scottie & IQ. I'm not saying they're same level of players BUT they'd essentially fit like Steph, Klay & Draymond. Of course there's variation and clearly superior players at different spots ie/ Steph will obv be better than IQ but likewise & arguably even more so, Scottie will dwarf what Draymond offers offensively as a scorer & he's also even better passer. But how they'd play off each other would be THAT. IQ is the movement shooter, that can create off the dribble, use his speed to relocate, Trey bangs down 3s like Klay (except even longer & even more versatile of a defender) with Scottie's fantastic passing ability (that's even better than Draymond's). Nah that trio would just be an absolute wet dream for this franchise. I couldn't pass on that TEAM even if I think there's a greater individual player and you may think well Keegan would offer much of the same and yeah I get it, but I don't think he'd be quite "Klay like" so the offence wouldn't be quite as potent and I think Jalen would be the level of talent that would great enough where we kind of have our own Tatum/Brown like duo but our guys aren't quite the level of scorers but better passers and IQ would bring that added scoring punch to close the gap.

So I could see a higher tier teams with TMIII or JJ. I still think we'd be pretty damn good with Keegan but sometimes it's just that touch more that takes a team from good to great and we'd be just a bit more dynamic with the first 2 options imo.

[Yeezus_]

Have some of you seen Mathurin play? I get he’s a prospect but I’m sick of ball players who have no idea what passing and playmaking is. We’ve seen enough of that with Trent, OG and Precious.

Can't be worried about that right now. Just got to get the best young pieces you can for Siakam and figure the rest out later.

If Masai wanted his pick of the litter, he should have moved Siakam earlier. Can't be picky now.

There's no reason to trade him unless they get a package that fits Scottie Barnes well.

[Psubs]

I know our FO wants to try & create as much leverage as possible by waiting out some teams but they have to have their own internal deadline that is WELL before the deadline & I still believe sooner is better...you just CAN NOT take the risk that Pascal's camp blows up all trade leverage by saying that they'll only "re-sign" (which I would believe is a blatant lie/PR move to have the fans turn on him especially down the stretch of the season) OR sign with PHI, then it's completely game over and right NOW we're just FORTUNATE, he hasn't taken it that far....YET. I 1000% believe he will pull that stunt & tank his trade value so do it ASAP before he gets that chance...

I'd give it maybe another week but you have to be proactive & beat him and his camp to the punch!

I know Jarace Walker isn't maybe your "dream target" but he has the potential to be a DAMN good player! I honestly believe that long term he can be every bit as good as Pascal, if not better. He can become a better defender, is a better passer and he's already shown/showing he has a MUCH more promising 3pt shot than Pascal. I think somewhat ironically although people here lazily compare him to OG, I think defensively that would be correct but I actually think he has the potential to offensively be at Pascal's level, almost like being a hybrid of the 2. That may not be a superstar but that would be one helluva player. Then you have the other pieces/players to help better fill out the roster PLUS the IND pick + DET pick. You have the chance to actually create a far more balanced & sustainable roster.

Put it this way, I'd say potential wise IQ > FVV, Scottie > Pascal & Jarace > OG. At worst you should have a juiced up version of your previous "core" and each guy has the potential to be substantially better with a better, more balanced roster that can work to fit more cohesively, just seems like common sense to me at this point to pull the trigger.

The downside would set us back for years and more importantly waste majority of Scottie's next & would likely end up being LAST contract here. Can't take that kinda of insane risk at completely blowing your future on being completely overconfident especially when it's totally unfounded.

Jarace is the #1 player prospect that I want that might be available before he blows up like Jaime Jaquez and Jalen Johnson this season. He's ALREADY a better outside shooter than Pascal and more fluid than Barnes. Extremely small sample size but his A/T is over 3. Just seems to make the right decisions as a rookie.

Good that the Pacers got a reality check losing to Boston last night. It's time to make a consolidating trade.

[PhilBlackson]

I know our FO wants to try & create as much leverage as possible by waiting out some teams but they have to have their own internal deadline that is WELL before the deadline & I still believe sooner is better...you just CAN NOT take the risk that Pascal's camp blows up all trade leverage by saying that they'll only "re-sign" (which I would believe is a blatant lie/PR move to have the fans turn on him especially down the stretch of the season) OR sign with PHI, then it's completely game over and right NOW we're just FORTUNATE, he hasn't taken it that far....YET. I 1000% believe he will pull that stunt & tank his trade value so do it ASAP before he gets that chance...

I'd give it maybe another week but you have to be proactive & beat him and his camp to the punch!

I know Jarace Walker isn't maybe your "dream target" but he has the potential to be a DAMN good player! I honestly believe that long term he can be every bit as good as Pascal, if not better. He can become a better defender, is a better passer and he's already shown/showing he has a MUCH more promising 3pt shot than Pascal. I think somewhat ironically although people here lazily compare him to OG, I think defensively that would be correct but I actually think he has the potential to offensively be at Pascal's level, almost like being a hybrid of the 2. That may not be a superstar but that would be one helluva player. Then you have the other pieces/players to help better fill out the roster PLUS the IND pick + DET pick. You have the chance to actually create a far more balanced & sustainable roster.

Put it this way, I'd say potential wise IQ > FVV, Scottie > Pascal & Jarace > OG. At worst you should have a juiced up version of your previous "core" and each guy has the potential to be substantially better with a better, more balanced roster that can work to fit more cohesively, just seems like common sense to me at this point to pull the trigger.

The downside would set us back for years and more importantly waste majority of Scottie's next & would likely end up being LAST contract here. Can't take that kinda of insane risk at completely blowing your future on being completely overconfident especially when it's totally unfounded.

Jarace is the #1 player prospect that I want that might be available before he blows up like Jaime Jaquez and Jalen Johnson this season. He's ALREADY a better outside shooter than Pascal and more fluid than Barnes. Extremely small sample size but his A/T is over 3. Just seems to make the right decisions as a rookie.

Good that the Pacers got a reality check losing to Boston last night. It's time to make a consolidating trade.

It's crazy to me how many people snub their noses at a Jarace Walker package.

I honestly don't think they're paying enough attention or just so ridiculously minimize anything he's done/doing. How many other top 10 picks would you hear routinely dropping 30+ in the G-League & people would just be dismissing it like this?! lol

Even when Pascal was the "G-League MVP", Jarace is outplaying that and is several years younger than he was. I think it's just because Walker didn't come into the league with all this individual hype but more as a "winning player" for how well he accepted his role in HOU to make them one of the best teams in the nation. It's almost held against him as an individual prospect, you'd think you really want that attitude in a player who essentially had the opposite attitude of OG but was willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to help his team win (despite being a way better prospect). But if Gradey was going lights out with 30+ a night, this board would swear we had a young Klay Thompson in the making lol and that's not factoring what a GREAT defender he is PLUS an excellent passer.

It's like people here want to wait & see him do it on the main club too but he does that & it's over, then he joins Murray, Johnson etc as being too late and the franchise/fans saw him do too much that now they don't wanna let go either. You can't wait until everyone is sold on them lol, you have to get in early while it's still an option. Personally I think he can get close to Murray's level in terms of overall impact and actually greater due to his added defence & passing, there's a reason this kid has been a top recruit coming out both HS & college. I think he's soooooo slept on & we gotta act while he still is.

[Dalek]

The we must trade Pascal because of his age thing is overrated.

The Wolves recognized they had a special talent in young Anthony Edwards so they went out and got old guys Conley/Gorbert and actually kept Towns who's approaching 30.

The Suns recongized they had a special talent in young Devin Booker but were a middling team until they decided to get mid 30s Paul and then got even more aggressive and got mid 30s Durant.

When the Bucks were building a team for young Giannis, they werent focused on youth, they slowly added vets like Jrue and Lopez to push forward.

Even the Celtics with the Jays were focused on talent around their youth regardless of age.

When Embiid was 23, 24ish, the 76ers got aggressive and traded for a 30 yr old Jimmy Butler...they just werent smart enough to keep/pay him.

If the Raps view Barnes as a special talent which I think they do, they should be looking to add the best fits around him for the next 3-4 yr window regardless of age....especially now that there looks to be some other young players on the roster that also have some upside.

With Siakam, the questions in my mind are:

(1) Fit.
Can Siakam and Barnes co-exist? The jury is still out on that one....the team certainly looks a lot better now then how they looked pre-trade....a lot of the issues before had to do with horrible spacing and an overall dearth of complimentary offensive talent.

(2) Does Siakam want to be here?
Management labeled him as "selfish" in the offseason and didnt extend him....why would he even want to stay? Ujiri/Webster kind of playing with fire giving him the Lowry treatment from a decade ago.....prove it, before we pay you?

(3) Is there a trade out there for the Raps that even makes sense?
Trading for middling prospects from middling teams or future draft picks isnt really going to move the yardstick forward all that much.

(4) Cap situation -
The cap is somewhat of a concern but its rising steadily so its something that can be worked around.

I am not against re-signing Pascal on a good deal for a future trade, but your examples showed how teams invested in Cs or added guys who compliment main guys well and helped teams get to a contender type of status or at least 50+ wins. Siakam isn't that guy for Toronto - no elite defense and not a great off ball threat.

Siakam is a guy you run your offense through. If he could pivot to being a non focal point than fine, but Barnes plays the same position and should be developed as a scorer/playmaker.

Regarding trades, Toronto gave up it's best defender and likely future DPOY candidate for two guys who fit well and balance out the scoring.

A Siakam trade could do the same. People we see as middling might just be young and in a weird situation. Barrett and Quickley being two starters is a very good trade. If Toronto can do that with Siakam, while getting good cost control, it makes sense.