Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread

[720]

At this point I just want an Indiana package or just keep Pascal

None of the potential packages from the other teams move me

I don’t think keeping Pascal is an option, or else the extension would have been signed by now. We’ll know for sure by the deadline.

[Zeno]

That’s kind of the deadline TBD piece, right? If we were close to terms on an extension that would have likely been done by now. So if we keep him, there’s a very real risk he walks for nothing.

So are you confident you can re-sign him if it gets to that point? I don’t think him walking is really an option here, even if it is a possible outcome. If you don’t want to bring him back or if you only want to bring him back at a number that will be exceeded in the open market (likely what is going on) then you have to deal him or he’s walking. If you have to deal him, you’re holding out for the best possible deal but that may be Barnes-Huerter-Mitchell-1st. I would rather have that - and maybe move Schroeder for something - than have Siakam walk for nothing.

We should have learned this from the lack of a Fred deal last summer.

taking salary you don't want is typically compensated by receiving picks in exchange. So this trade is essentially nothing but selling capspace for a 1st is we don't really want the players and their contracts. in other words, that offer is basically equal to him walking for nothing. The only thing you win is the pr game doing that trade. Same as if we took Kennard and a 1st for Fred.

But that’s the thing - we absolutely should have taken Kennard and a first last year for Fred. They made the mistake of thinking that they could re-sign Fred and move him later, but that didn’t happen. The only thing that “cap space” was used for is Schroeder, who you could have probably gotten anyway as he was signed with the MLE. The major difference is that in this case, you’re moving a better player. So maybe it’s a mid-range deal to match contracts that you’re taking, but you’re also getting something more of value than just a late first.

Those future firsts have actual value, regardless of if they’re protected or late. Same with guys like Kennard, Barnes, Huerter - reasonable contracts, movable, nothing long term that is going to prevent you from making future moves.

The Siakam cap space is only good for about one season - then the Barnes and Quickley extensions kick in and it’s effectively gone.

It's debatable to me that they would really be all that better off with Kennard and the 1st. Perhaps given that nothing materialized that they wanted to do with the flexibility, perhaps it's a loss. But to me a slight one and if Kennard's presence on the books limited them from being able to pursue something else they wanted to do, it could have been a loss. I can see both perspectives on this. But I don't think Masai will take on contracts he doesn't want beyond this year unless it nets them something he truly wants beyond a pick that he views as compensation for dumping salary. This is why, I think Pascal will end up on the Pacers if traded.

[douggood]

wasnt the clippers offer kennard and boston jr for fvv, a 1st is what the raptors wanted, clippers didnt include it.

[tecumseh18]

taking salary you don't want is typically compensated by receiving picks in exchange. So this trade is essentially nothing but selling capspace for a 1st is we don't really want the players and their contracts. in other words, that offer is basically equal to him walking for nothing. The only thing you win is the pr game doing that trade. Same as if we took Kennard and a 1st for Fred.

But that’s the thing - we absolutely should have taken Kennard and a first last year for Fred. They made the mistake of thinking that they could re-sign Fred and move him later, but that didn’t happen. The only thing that “cap space” was used for is Schroeder, who you could have probably gotten anyway as he was signed with the MLE. The major difference is that in this case, you’re moving a better player. So maybe it’s a mid-range deal to match contracts that you’re taking, but you’re also getting something more of value than just a late first.

Those future firsts have actual value, regardless of if they’re protected or late. Same with guys like Kennard, Barnes, Huerter - reasonable contracts, movable, nothing long term that is going to prevent you from making future moves.

The Siakam cap space is only good for about one season - then the Barnes and Quickley extensions kick in and it’s effectively gone.

It's debatable to me that they would really be all that better off with Kennard and the 1st. Perhaps given that nothing materialized that they wanted to do with the flexibility, perhaps it's a loss. But to me a slight one and if Kennard's presence on the books limited them from being able to pursue something else they wanted to do, it could have been a loss. I can see both perspectives on this. But I don't think Masai will take on contracts he doesn't want beyond this year unless it nets them something he truly wants beyond a pick that he views as compensation for dumping salary. This is why, I think Pascal will end up on the Pacers if traded.

Agreed. Raps have a good chance to have $40 mill in cap space this summer, and much more than that depending on what we do with Schroder and Boucher. We're not taking back Wiggins or Huerter.

[JN]

Davion is currently shooting 36 FG / 24 3PT.

Lets not go back to this.

Yeah for a top 10 pick, he's just flat out awful. I can't even entertain the idea that he's even an asset.

We have been there, good ++ defender but totally inept offensively … different size but it’s Stanley Johnson v2.

[Morse Code]

I want Jarace Walker over everyone, including Keegan Murray and Jalen Johnson

[alpngso]

I want Jarace Walker over everyone, including Keegan Murray and Jalen Johnson

He won’t overlap with Scottie like how everyone thinks Siakam is in Scottie’s way?

[Zeno]

But that’s the thing - we absolutely should have taken Kennard and a first last year for Fred. They made the mistake of thinking that they could re-sign Fred and move him later, but that didn’t happen. The only thing that “cap space” was used for is Schroeder, who you could have probably gotten anyway as he was signed with the MLE. The major difference is that in this case, you’re moving a better player. So maybe it’s a mid-range deal to match contracts that you’re taking, but you’re also getting something more of value than just a late first.

Those future firsts have actual value, regardless of if they’re protected or late. Same with guys like Kennard, Barnes, Huerter - reasonable contracts, movable, nothing long term that is going to prevent you from making future moves.

The Siakam cap space is only good for about one season - then the Barnes and Quickley extensions kick in and it’s effectively gone.

It's debatable to me that they would really be all that better off with Kennard and the 1st. Perhaps given that nothing materialized that they wanted to do with the flexibility, perhaps it's a loss. But to me a slight one and if Kennard's presence on the books limited them from being able to pursue something else they wanted to do, it could have been a loss. I can see both perspectives on this. But I don't think Masai will take on contracts he doesn't want beyond this year unless it nets them something he truly wants beyond a pick that he views as compensation for dumping salary. This is why, I think Pascal will end up on the Pacers if traded.

Agreed. Raps have a good chance to have $40 mill in cap space this summer, and much more than that depending on what we do with Schroder and Boucher. We're not taking back Wiggins or Huerter.

Well I agree with you but honestly I can't be that definitive. If Masai is offered a player he really wants, he might eat a contract. Barrett is viewed that way by some. I wouldn't think he'd want Huerter or Wiggins deals either. I personally don't think Kuminga would be enough to convince him to swallow Wiggins' deal, in the state he's in. For Keegan, he probably does it, I'd think, and gives up the possibility of capspace. But he's not eating contracts for straight picks. I pretty confident in saying that.

[Rapsfan07]

At this point I just want an Indiana package or just keep Pascal

None of the potential packages from the other teams move me

I don’t think keeping Pascal is an option, or else the extension would have been signed by now. We’ll know for sure by the deadline.

Yeah, it isn't an option.

As has been discussed many times here - there is no reason for Pascal to sign an extension now. Not only has the team been publicly shopping him and been clear about their intention to build around Barnes, but if I understand correctly, we can only offer 4yrs/$192M via extension right now.

If he waits until the offseason, we could give him a max offer of around 5yr/$260M. So, even if things were great between him and the organization, he would have still stood to make more money waiting until the offseason. If the team doesn't want to pay that, he can get a 4 year deal from a team of his preference.

If you're a team looking to acquire him, they're going to argue that they don't want to pay a big package for a guy they don't know for sure wants to stay longterm.

For what its worth - I think Siakam wants the bag but I do understand the reluctance from the other team. I think Philly is a real suitor that worries all other potentially interested parties but I also think he'd resign in Atlanta as well.

[720]

At this point I just want an Indiana package or just keep Pascal

None of the potential packages from the other teams move me

I don’t think keeping Pascal is an option, or else the extension would have been signed by now. We’ll know for sure by the deadline.

Yeah, it isn't an option.

As has been discussed many times here - there is no reason for Pascal to sign an extension now. Not only has the team been publicly shopping him and been clear about their intention to build around Barnes, but if I understand correctly, we can only offer 4yrs/$192M via extension right now.

If he waits until the offseason, we could give him a max offer of around 5yr/$260M. So, even if things were great between him and the organization, he would have still stood to make more money waiting until the offseason. If the team doesn't want to pay that, he can get a 4 year deal from a team of his preference.

If you're a team looking to acquire him, they're going to argue that they don't want to pay a big package for a guy they don't know for sure wants to stay longterm.

For what it’s worth - I think Siakam wants the bag but I do understand the reluctance from the other team. I think Philly is a real suitor that worries all other potentially interested parties but I also think he'd resign in Atlanta as well.

I think teams are unwilling to give him that 5th year which is why he isn’t committing to any team that wants to trade for him. OG for example, I’m sure the Knicks and him already have a contract they’ve negotiated before the trade happened.

I think from Siakam’s perspective if no team is offering him a 5th year then he might as well wait it out and pick where he wants to go for the 4 year extension.

[StopitLeo]

What are the theoretical best offers Dallas and Memphis can line up without gutting their line-ups? Let's figure that out and move from there.

Kyrie and we send him to a 3rd team.

[Rapsfan07]

I don’t think keeping Pascal is an option, or else the extension would have been signed by now. We’ll know for sure by the deadline.

Yeah, it isn't an option.

As has been discussed many times here - there is no reason for Pascal to sign an extension now. Not only has the team been publicly shopping him and been clear about their intention to build around Barnes, but if I understand correctly, we can only offer 4yrs/$192M via extension right now.

If he waits until the offseason, we could give him a max offer of around 5yr/$260M. So, even if things were great between him and the organization, he would have still stood to make more money waiting until the offseason. If the team doesn't want to pay that, he can get a 4 year deal from a team of his preference.

If you're a team looking to acquire him, they're going to argue that they don't want to pay a big package for a guy they don't know for sure wants to stay longterm.

For what it’s worth - I think Siakam wants the bag but I do understand the reluctance from the other team. I think Philly is a real suitor that worries all other potentially interested parties but I also think he'd resign in Atlanta as well.

I think teams are unwilling to give him that 5th year which is why he isn’t committing to any team that wants to trade for him. OG for example, I’m sure the Knicks and him already have a contract they’ve negotiated before the trade happened.

I think from Siakam’s perspective if no team is offering him a 5th year then he might as well wait it out and pick where he wants to go for the 4 year extension.

If that were true, then he'd be better off taking our offer for a 4 yr deal. We can offer more over those same 4 yrs than he would anywhere else. Unless he's that serious about getting out of Toronto.

[Madvillainy2004]

wasnt the clippers offer kennard and boston jr for fvv, a 1st is what the raptors wanted, clippers didnt include it.

Yes the Clippers didnt budge on that offer. The pick deal was to Milwaukee for Grayson Allen.

[Madvillainy2004]

I guess I could be talked in Gilyyard/Zaire/Tillman or Aldama and Kennard for Siakam lol

[Yeezus_]

I don’t think keeping Pascal is an option, or else the extension would have been signed by now. We’ll know for sure by the deadline.

Yeah, it isn't an option.

As has been discussed many times here - there is no reason for Pascal to sign an extension now. Not only has the team been publicly shopping him and been clear about their intention to build around Barnes, but if I understand correctly, we can only offer 4yrs/$192M via extension right now.

If he waits until the offseason, we could give him a max offer of around 5yr/$260M. So, even if things were great between him and the organization, he would have still stood to make more money waiting until the offseason. If the team doesn't want to pay that, he can get a 4 year deal from a team of his preference.

If you're a team looking to acquire him, they're going to argue that they don't want to pay a big package for a guy they don't know for sure wants to stay longterm.

For what it’s worth - I think Siakam wants the bag but I do understand the reluctance from the other team. I think Philly is a real suitor that worries all other potentially interested parties but I also think he'd resign in Atlanta as well.

I think teams are unwilling to give him that 5th year which is why he isn’t committing to any team that wants to trade for him. OG for example, I’m sure the Knicks and him already have a contract they’ve negotiated before the trade happened.

I think from Siakam’s perspective if no team is offering him a 5th year then he might as well wait it out and pick where he wants to go for the 4 year extension.

But the team with his bird rights can give him more over the 4 years. So he can wait it out if that's what he prefers but he'll be losing out on dollars.

[Yeezus_]

I guess I could be talked in Gilyyard/Zaire/Tillman or Aldama and Kennard for Siakam lol

Why would you want to be talked into this? Might as well re-sign Siakam if that's the offer on the table lol.

[720]

Yeah, it isn't an option.

As has been discussed many times here - there is no reason for Pascal to sign an extension now. Not only has the team been publicly shopping him and been clear about their intention to build around Barnes, but if I understand correctly, we can only offer 4yrs/$192M via extension right now.

If he waits until the offseason, we could give him a max offer of around 5yr/$260M. So, even if things were great between him and the organization, he would have still stood to make more money waiting until the offseason. If the team doesn't want to pay that, he can get a 4 year deal from a team of his preference.

If you're a team looking to acquire him, they're going to argue that they don't want to pay a big package for a guy they don't know for sure wants to stay longterm.

For what it’s worth - I think Siakam wants the bag but I do understand the reluctance from the other team. I think Philly is a real suitor that worries all other potentially interested parties but I also think he'd resign in Atlanta as well.

I think teams are unwilling to give him that 5th year which is why he isn’t committing to any team that wants to trade for him. OG for example, I’m sure the Knicks and him already have a contract they’ve negotiated before the trade happened.

I think from Siakam’s perspective if no team is offering him a 5th year then he might as well wait it out and pick where he wants to go for the 4 year extension.

But the team with his bird rights can give him more over the 4 years. So he can wait it out if that's what he prefers but he'll be losing out on dollars.

Isn’t it in the 200 million range either way (194 million with incentives/ cap increase adjustments)?

I don’t think a few million will throw his decision off when we’re talking about almost 50 million a season either way.

[Dalek]

I was thinking about the Knicks trade and how Toronto appears to value players who contribute now and have some upside.

Utah is in a similar position to Toronto record wise and has a lot of players who could fit well in Toronto. Outgoing would be Siakam and Trent Jr. both players Utah has discussed in the past.

John Collins - $25m depressed asset but one who can still shoot (37% from three) and rebound (13% rebound rate). Low defensive impact but could be a small ball C to spread the floor.

Kelly Olynyk - Just a good player to have on the bench who can spell Poeltl when he gets into foul trouble. Only a one year deal, so we could think about a future contract if he works out.

THT - Toronto has always been interested in him and Utah barely uses him. To me he can be excellent creating his own offense and could be a nice bench piece. He is still only 23 but his contract expires this year.

Ochai Agbagi - A bit underperforming as a SG, but the kid can defend and adds some toughness. Honestly, I thought Toronto had a lot of interest in him before during his draft cycle and the year's before, but it never worked out.

[Yeezus_]

I think teams are unwilling to give him that 5th year which is why he isn’t committing to any team that wants to trade for him. OG for example, I’m sure the Knicks and him already have a contract they’ve negotiated before the trade happened.

I think from Siakam’s perspective if no team is offering him a 5th year then he might as well wait it out and pick where he wants to go for the 4 year extension.

But the team with his bird rights can give him more over the 4 years. So he can wait it out if that's what he prefers but he'll be losing out on dollars.

Isn’t it in the 200 million range either way (194 million with incentives/ cap increase adjustments)?

I don’t think a few million will throw his decision off when we’re talking about almost 50 million a season either way.

Yeah I'm no cap expert so I don't know the exact difference in dollars that a team with bird rights vs FA will end up being.

[OakleyDokely]

wasnt the clippers offer kennard and boston jr for fvv, a 1st is what the raptors wanted, clippers didnt include it.

Yes the Clippers didnt budge on that offer. The pick deal was to Milwaukee for Grayson Allen.

I think the Raps would've accepted Mann instead of Boston Jr as well but the Clippers wouldn't do that either.