(LOCK THREAD) The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Thread - 40K POINTS+(Part 1)(NO INSULTING)

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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2041 » by nzahir » Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:55 pm

khaltheball wrote:Just watched lavine last night vs rockets . He was amazing 3 games back from injury he played 77 last year mind you. Showed off he can be a very solid to good defender when engaged n will be here imo especially on ball, leagues better then reaves or Dlo or Rui on perimeter. Showed me he can pass ( no **** ) he’s a better passer n offensive player overall than jaylen brown imo im confident in that take just mis cast . He’s very solid at feeding Vuc as usual . He provides much needed rim pressure n won’t mess up transition like Dlo . He’s literally perfect for what this team needs ; he’ll actually be a huge upgrade for the 5 out someone who can actually pressure the rim n shoot the **** out of the ball , make enough passses n plays ok enough defense ( possibly good when engaged n in LA). I’m convinced he’s been half assing this season or played hurt . If they can get Murray in a separate deal ( I’d give up reaves if they had to cos lavine n reaves fit is a bit wonky n we want to win now ) , hoping Murray is cheap . Also ales Caruso , Marcus smart or any big defensive guard who can pass a bit n shoot a bit along side lavine and I love this for us. I think they sadly might not do it but god damn it lavine will literally help on every way possible other than elite/great playmaking . Helps lighten the load for AD n Bron scoring wise n can take highly efficient looks without taking away from the table . I’m pretty confident he’s the way higher upside play over Murray now. I can see him
Being a turbo charged jaylen brown - one that can actually drive better shoot better n considering brown - I think pass better . Oh n it’ll prob be fun to see some exciting transition plays or cuts n lobs .

Oh n
Both lavine n Caruso being so athletic helps the team in so many areas like transition on both ends , cuts , but most importantly hustling for boards . Similar reason I like Murray maybe - high rebound rate. Some news that reaves may be enough for Murray .

Rui Dlo jhs - lavine ( if possibly add Gabe and FRP for Caruso I think that’s enough value if Gabe was heakthy I’d feel so and being hard capped they’re close enough salaries to work .)

Reaves + filler( no idea what ) - Murray - might be a three way move not sure exactly might be teamd wanting reaves , Murray fits better alongside zach if no Caruso. And even with him I think I prefer that upside .

This involves Pelinka b the lakers getting real with themselves n prob some idiot casuals will cry about reaves n Rui . But this is a very possible framework of a trade and one that actually gives you upside to compete . I’d advise zach skeptics to watch that game, need the doctors to confirm he’s fine n he was half asssing due to hating his coach etc . Some belief that zach is a negative asset on that deal - I’m not sure if I buy that but he has no suitors and no other contender needs a star back court scorer/shooter . I remember really wanting zach in 2020-21ish seasons when Bron was full time pg for a while . I think a combo of zach then reaves/Caruso /Murray whatever n occasionally AD is enough to help Bron bring the ball up where he really wants the help . I think he’s ok playing pg just not always being the only handler n he won’t be. Finally feel some optimism.

Dw Pelinka will crush that soon lol

Main targets we should go after:
Lavine: Due to depressed value
Miles Bridges: Very depressed value. He has done very bad things obviously, so I can see why he is a toxic player that nobody wants rn. But a high reward player that has 1 year left
DFS: Possibly, depending on other moves and cost
Brogdon: Possibly, depending on other moves and cost

I dont actually know if I want Dejounte Murray for what he costs

Not sure if he would be a good fit next to Lavine and Bron

He is also thin

Rather just keep Reaves or if we want a bigger guard then go get Caruso. But it will be hard to get both without moving Reaves, if even possible. Bulls want probably 2 late 1sts for AC or very solid 1st and or a decent young guy I bet

Realistic scnario is some sort of deal with Dlo, Rui, and 1 of JHS/1st and salary filler (hayes, reddish) for Lavine and any salary filler. Maybe a 3 teamer

Dream scenario (that is realistic) may be Dlo, Vincent, JHS, a 28 swap, couple 2nds and filler (Cam, Hayes, Maxwell Lewis?) for Lavine. Bulls get a swap, JHS, and some 2nds for Lavine.

Rui for a quicker SF like DFS? Nets get a younger thicker PF for the future vs Bridges and Cam Johnson

Sign Biyombo

Lavine, Prince, DFS, Bron, AD
Reaves, Christie, Cam/Vando, Wood, Biyombo

I think that is a true contender

Starting lineup surrounds Bron and AD with 2 very solid 3 point shooters in DFS and Prince and 1 that has shown to be elite in Lavine at times.

Bench has energy spark plugs and also has size

Reaves for offensive energy.
1 of Cam/Vando bring defensive energy
Biyombo brings defensive energy
Wood can give you some spacing as a big and has length. Works better with Bron or Bron and AD though
Christie gives you some of both, but needs to be out there with other main ball handlers
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2042 » by zimpy27 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:07 pm

Reaves, Christie, Prince, LeBron, Davis
DLo, Reddish, Vando, Rui, Wood
Vincent, JHS, Lewis, Hayes

Lakers can upgrade 1 of the guys in the first 2 rows by adding things from the 3rd row.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2043 » by zimpy27 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:07 pm

Lakers team scores efficiently and defends well.

The reason they lose is inconsistency/injury and negative disparity in TOs and OREBs.

Honestly it's availability and effort plays that hurt Lakers currently.

They need a guy like Caruso.


Prince, JHS, LAL26swap would be my offer for Caruso. Would maybe go as high as Prince, JHS, LAL29FRP(11-30).
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2044 » by nzahir » Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:06 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Lakers team scores efficiently and defends well.

The reason they lose is inconsistency/injury and negative disparity in TOs and OREBs.

Honestly it's availability and effort plays that hurt Lakers currently.

They need a guy like Caruso.


Prince, JHS, LAL26swap would be my offer for Caruso. Would maybe go as high as Prince, JHS, LAL29FRP(11-30).

We cant move Prince, he is one of the only good shooters. Especially at the bigger guard/wing spot

If its a Caruso move, has to be Vincent or Dlo going, wont need all these guards

Idk if we score efficiently, if we did we wouldnt be an offense ranked in the 20s with a pretty healthy Bron and AD

Near the bottom in 3s
High TOs
Not rebounding offensively
Half court offensive is slow, not much movement, lot of iso

Lavine and a forward is the deal to make if we are going big

If we are going with a smaller, deal/deals still want to upgrade Dlo with a more defensive minded larger guard or just a more stready pg who can shoot and get more of a sbooter at the 2/3 than a 3/4 by moving Rui

If we end up facing Denver we have to hope we have enough firepower and can throw out the Bron, Wood, and AD frontcourt
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2045 » by tsherkin » Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:13 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Lakers team scores efficiently and defends well.


Below average 3FG%, below average FT%, +0.3% rTS as a team.

15th in defensive eFG%, 18% in defensive TOV. 23rd in defensive 3P%.

They're marginally above league average in efficiency, and they don't actually defend all that well. They rank 10th in the league primarily on the back of defensive rebounding and low defensive FT/FGA. They are 24th in the league offensively because they are tepid in efficiency, poor at taking care of the ball and horrific on the offensive glass.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2046 » by dcstanley » Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:24 pm

Hope they trade for Lavine asap. I want to finally see a great offensive player next to Bron/AD.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2047 » by zimpy27 » Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:26 pm

tsherkin wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Lakers team scores efficiently and defends well.


Below average 3FG%, below average FT%, +0.3% rTS as a team.

15th in defensive eFG%, 18% in defensive TOV. 23rd in defensive 3P%.

They're marginally above league average in efficiency, and they don't actually defend all that well. They rank 10th in the league primarily on the back of defensive rebounding and low defensive FT/FGA. They are 24th in the league offensively because they are tepid in efficiency, poor at taking care of the ball and horrific on the offensive glass.



Lakers are 15th in TS% even with the injuries.
Defensively they are 10th.

Real issues are the OREB and TO disparity. Opponents get multiple extra possessions against Lakers on average because of this.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2048 » by tsherkin » Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:29 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Lakers are 15th in TS% even with the injuries.


As I said, they are +0.3% rTS. That is marginally efficient at best. It isn't a major strength, nor does it serve them well due to the specific weaknesses they have.

Defensively they are 10th.


Yup. But again, the path matters. Defensive rebounding is well and good, but if you aren't actually good at defending shots (and they are not), then that ranking/DRTG can be misleading.

As you say, the offensive rebounding and turnover issues are both problematic, and significantly so, but they are not the only issue.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2049 » by dcstanley » Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:01 am

zimpy27 wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Lakers team scores efficiently and defends well.


Below average 3FG%, below average FT%, +0.3% rTS as a team.

15th in defensive eFG%, 18% in defensive TOV. 23rd in defensive 3P%.

They're marginally above league average in efficiency, and they don't actually defend all that well. They rank 10th in the league primarily on the back of defensive rebounding and low defensive FT/FGA. They are 24th in the league offensively because they are tepid in efficiency, poor at taking care of the ball and horrific on the offensive glass.



Lakers are 15th in TS% even with the injuries.
Defensively they are 10th.

Real issues are the OREB and TO disparity. Opponents get multiple extra possessions against Lakers on average because of this.

Lakers have played 38 games.

Games played:
AD: 36
LeBron: 34
AR: 38
Prince: 36
D'Lo: 34


They've been one of the healthier teams in the conference. Vincent is the only significant loss.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2050 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:13 am

I really feel like Lakers might part with Reaves for a combo of Murray+LaVine or Murray+DeMar.


How would you guys feel about that?
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2051 » by The Master » Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:28 am

zimpy27 wrote:I really feel like Lakers might part with Reaves for a combo of Murray+LaVine or Murray+DeMar.


How would you guys feel about that?

Lakers are too weak to compete for a title, realistically - they're borderline playoff team with both LeBron/AD being healthy and the best they can get are players between top starters/borderline allstar players (rather starters).

As a LeBron fan, I don't care about Lakers' future, so doing something is fine, especially since it may be THIS season when both AD and LeBron are healthy.

As a Lakers fan, I would be very hesitant to move any long-term asset, Lakers have 31yo AD, 26yo Reaves and some scrubs (Hood-Schifino, Christie) for post-LeBron era.

I'm not, so go for it, but objectively speaking, Lakers are in no position to do all-in moves.

It's all about depth and fit, not a 3rd-fiddle on heavy contract like LaVine.

Lakers lack depth, on-ball defenders and shooters - too much holes to fill them with a moderate number of assets.

The only realistic in any way goal that could make a difference is Siakam, not LaVine or Murray. But he'd be an awkward fit, so I doubt it.

I bet Lakers will be very patient, everyone says about winning, but I guess the front office is completely fine with being playoff team with 'some' upside, even without legit shot to win a ring. I'd be too, LeBron/AD at this point are completely unreliable in terms of real contending for a title.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2052 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 12:52 am

The Master wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:I really feel like Lakers might part with Reaves for a combo of Murray+LaVine or Murray+DeMar.


How would you guys feel about that?

Lakers are too weak to compete for a title, realistically - they're borderline playoff team with both LeBron/AD being healthy and the best they can get are players between top starters/borderline allstar players (rather starters).

As a LeBron fan, I don't care about Lakers' future, so doing something is fine, especially since it may be THIS season when both AD and LeBron are healthy.

As a Lakers fan, I would be very hesitant to move any long-term asset, Lakers have 31yo AD, 26yo Reaves and some scrubs (Hood-Schifino, Christie) for post-LeBron era.

I'm not, so go for it, but objectively speaking, Lakers are in no position to do all-in moves.

It's all about depth and fit, not a 3rd-fiddle on heavy contract like LaVine.

Lakers lack depth, on-ball defenders and shooters - too much holes to fill them with a moderate number of assets.

The only realistic in any way goal that could make a difference is Siakam, not LaVine or Murray. But he'd be an awkward fit, so I doubt it.

I bet Lakers will be very patient, everyone says about winning, but I guess the front office is completely fine with being playoff team with 'some' upside, even without legit shot to win a ring. I'd be too, LeBron/AD at this point are completely unreliable in terms of real contending for a title.



Murray, LaVine, Prince, LeBron, Davis -- Christie, Reddish, Vando, Wood

Murray, Christie, DeMar, LeBron, Davis -- Vincent, Reddish, Prince, Vando, Wood


You don't think either of these teams are contender level?
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2053 » by Cavsfansince84 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:07 am

zimpy27 wrote:I really feel like Lakers might part with Reaves for a combo of Murray+LaVine or Murray+DeMar.


How would you guys feel about that?


I'd be ok with stirring up the pot on that team. The team right now almost reminds me of the Cavs in 2018 before the trades happened. Everything about the team seemed off. You pretty much gotta roll the dice. It's not like Reaves will be a foundational piece 3-5 years from now. A decent piece? Sure but not a guy you really build around. He's Tyler Herro basically.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2054 » by The Master » Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:11 am

zimpy27 wrote:Murray, LaVine, Prince, LeBron, Davis -- Christie, Reddish, Vando, Wood

Murray, Christie, DeMar, LeBron, Davis -- Vincent, Reddish, Prince, Vando, Wood

You don't think either of these teams are contender level?


Christie-DeRozan-LeBron-Davis with Reddish and Vando from the bench is a disaster spacing-wise, and that even ignoring Murray is probably 'fluking' from downtown this year (39% vs 34% in his career).

The first lineup would be overrated (DM and ZL are starter-level players), probably impossible to get for any moderate price and destroying Lakers future (no cap flexibility with LaVine on a payroll) - but if you ask me (LeBron/non-Lakers fan), I'd definitely give it a try.

But my point isn't 'Lakers can't make it interesting' nor that I don't want to see it (if Lakers are awful for 10 years after LeBron's retirement, I'm completely fine with that) -- objectively speaking, they're in transition era right now, got swept by Nuggets and are 19-19 with LeBron/AD playing the best basketball since 2020. Some things are irreparable and Lakers wasting their depth on Westbrook is one of such things.

Going after LaVine (+3 OBPM, +2 O-net on/off, overall net negative player in his prime on below-average NBA team) won't heal Lakers' problems. It's great to have LaVine in a vacuum, but 40/50m-earning for years LaVine with a goal to take you over the hill is a wash.

The only 'hope' for the Lakers is Harden-like/Kyrie-like situation (Clippers/Mavs basically got legit allstar for couple of starters and random picks), but I don't see any such opportunities before this year's trade deadline. Siakam could be close (contract year, decent player), but he doesn't fit well with what Lakers are lacking/have.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2055 » by Heej » Fri Jan 12, 2024 3:14 am

Lakers back end rotations bumping over and Xing out closeouts to cover for hedges don't look half bad to start. Transition defense looks atrocious and Reaves is once again barbecue chicken to anyone halfway decent
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2056 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 3:22 am

Heej wrote:Lakers back end rotations bumping over and Xing out closeouts to cover for hedges don't look half bad to start. Transition defense looks atrocious and Reaves is once again barbecue chicken to anyone halfway decent



Don't listen to Reggie, they aren't cooking Reaves, he just is the only perimeter defender getting back in transition to defend.

The real issue is the lazy defense effort.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2057 » by capfan33 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:08 am

That's going on the career highlight reel.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2058 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:10 am

Lakers losing TO and OREB by 10 possessions to the Suns of all teams and it's only half time
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2059 » by dcstanley » Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:12 am

This is a glimpse of what it will look like in the playoffs: Prince on KD, Christie on Booker, Reaves on Beal, and Vando/Reddish getting spot minutes because they are fringe rotation guys. This team desperately needs a two-way guard or wing.
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Re: The LeBron James- 23-24 Regular Season Thread - In Season Tornament MVP - (Part 1)(NO BAITING & NO INSULTING) 

Post#2060 » by zimpy27 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:15 am

19-20 Lakers average 2 more possessions than opponent, this team averages 2 less.

That's honestly a big part of the difference.
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