The Gradey Dick Thread Part 2

[Dude-niagara]

All the later picks after Dick also show you the importance of having a first rounder, just makes the Poeltl trade look dumber and dumber. So many dumb things happening with this FO

[ash_k]

Hopefully this is a hard lesson for the organization and they never draft for need (a need that really wasn't a need since you should have identified that this team wasn't good in the first place). Drafting a one dimensional shooter in an era where everyone can shoot including bigs was just a curious thing. You could have just signed a shooter or traded for one.

Whenever I read Realgmers typing that, I always wonder. did they actually follow the team last season?
The team goes 27-14 at home/5th best in the East without a center most of it while dealing with conflicts and high number of injuries.
A realgmer like you will say the "team was not good"
While FO and rational RealGMers would say " there was massive potential there, remove the conflicts and injuries then the team could have gone 33-8 at home potentially (best in the East). That's how they are supposed to work. Unfortunately we have had to move on from a great coach, lost FVV's leadership and now Darko is in his first year....

However, Darko was specifically hired to develop players like Gradey, after turning guys like T-rexD.Bane into borderline all-Stars.

We can judge Darko's success on Gradey's developments and others..while his coaching develops as well, he looked tired in Utah on the sidelines.

[MoneyBall]

I get some relief knowing that Scoot looks terrible too.

[Walid]

All the later picks after Dick also show you the importance of having a first rounder, just makes the Poeltl trade look dumber and dumber. So many dumb things happening with this FO

At the same time, it shows you don’t necessarily have to tank if you want to add value to your roster. Of course, getting a high lottery pick and nailing that selection would be great, but just like we see every year, many teams miss out on better players taken out of the lottery and even into the second round.

[tecumseh18]

All the later picks after Dick also show you the importance of having a first rounder, just makes the Poeltl trade look dumber and dumber. So many dumb things happening with this FO

At the same time, it shows you don’t necessarily have to tank if you want to add value to your roster. Of course, getting a high lottery pick and nailing that selection would be great, but just like we see every year, many teams miss out on better players taken out of the lottery and even into the second round.

Look at the Pacers. They never bottomed out, but still have a ton of young, desirable talent. Why can't they share some of it with us?

[Dude-niagara]

All the later picks after Dick also show you the importance of having a first rounder, just makes the Poeltl trade look dumber and dumber. So many dumb things happening with this FO

At the same time, it shows you don’t necessarily have to tank if you want to add value to your roster. Of course, getting a high lottery pick and nailing that selection would be great, but just like we see every year, many teams miss out on better players taken out of the lottery and even into the second round.

That was my point, having any kind of first rounder gives you a shot at getting a good player.

[Tha Cynic]

Hopefully this is a hard lesson for the organization and they never draft for need (a need that really wasn't a need since you should have identified that this team wasn't good in the first place). Drafting a one dimensional shooter in an era where everyone can shoot including bigs was just a curious thing. You could have just signed a shooter or traded for one.

Whenever I read Realgmers typing that, I always wonder. did they actually follow the team last season?
The team goes 27-14 at home/5th best in the East without a center most of it while dealing with conflicts and high number of injuries.
A realgmer like you will say the "team was not good"
While FO and rational RealGMers would say " there was massive potential there, remove the conflicts and injuries then the team could have gone 33-8 at home potentially (best in the East). That's how they are supposed to work. Unfortunately we have had to move on from a great coach, lost FVV's leadership and now Darko is in his first year....

However, Darko was specifically hired to develop players like Gradey, after turning guys like T-rexD.Bane into borderline all-Stars.

We can judge Darko's success on Gradey's developments and others..while his coaching develops as well, he looked tired in Utah on the sidelines.

As a RealGMer I watched every game they played and decided they weren't very good. I have watched Siakam, FVV, and OG since they were drafted and knew who they were by this point. I also decided based on the second half of the season that they beat up on a lot of bad teams and ones who were missing their top players so didn't put too much stock into it. They lost to all the good teams still. It's not like the signs were that deep that you couldn't see it. You had to look hard to find positives last season.

So no, I don't agree that the front office made a decision that made sense. In fact the majority of the posters here could see this coming.

Let's ignore all that. With a lottery pick, drafting for need is just a terrible move, especially when you're drafting someone who you can clearly see is one dimensional when you watch him play. Like I said in my post - this is an era where everyone can shoot. You could have drafted a player like this in the second round if you really needed shooting.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The Raptors got a good prospect with Koloko early in the 2nd, and there's some bad luck with his health.

The youth movement didn't pan out. Trent didn't improve, Achiuwa got worse, Flynn was a bust, Banton and Johnson didn't pan out, Koloko's career may be up in the air (certainly safe to assume so without any information shared by the organization) and now Dick is putting up a terrible rookie season.

[The Duke]

Trade Gradey Dick with Siakam or even waive if it’s possible

What would be the rationale?

- FO thinking there is a decent chance he is not even a future rotational player here
- Saving face, and can answer questions about Siakam and not necessarily Gradey as much.
- realization, even under the ‘base case’ scenario, Gradey could easily replaceable
- maybe a team in the ‘Merica south think they can get something out of him, if they they the culture fit is wrong in cold Toronto,

[ash_k]

Hopefully this is a hard lesson for the organization and they never draft for need (a need that really wasn't a need since you should have identified that this team wasn't good in the first place). Drafting a one dimensional shooter in an era where everyone can shoot including bigs was just a curious thing. You could have just signed a shooter or traded for one.

Whenever I read Realgmers typing that, I always wonder. did they actually follow the team last season?
The team goes 27-14 at home/5th best in the East without a center most of it while dealing with conflicts and high number of injuries.
A realgmer like you will say the "team was not good"
While FO and rational RealGMers would say " there was massive potential there, remove the conflicts and injuries then the team could have gone 33-8 at home potentially (best in the East). That's how they are supposed to work. Unfortunately we have had to move on from a great coach, lost FVV's leadership and now Darko is in his first year....

However, Darko was specifically hired to develop players like Gradey, after turning guys like T-rexD.Bane into borderline all-Stars.

We can judge Darko's success on Gradey's developments and others..while his coaching develops as well, he looked tired in Utah on the sidelines.

As a RealGMer I watched every game they played and decided they weren't very good. I have watched Siakam, FVV, and OG since they were drafted and knew who they were by this point. I also decided based on the second half of the season that they beat up on a lot of bad teams and ones who were missing their top players so didn't put too much stock into it. They lost to all the good teams still. It's not like the signs were that deep that you couldn't see it. You had to look hard to find positives last season.

So no, I don't agree that the front office made a decision that made sense. In fact the majority of the posters here could see this coming.

Let's ignore all that. With a lottery pick, drafting for need is just a terrible move, especially when you're drafting someone who you can clearly see is one dimensional when you watch him play. Like I said in my post - this is an era where everyone can shoot. You could have drafted a player like this in the second round if you really needed shooting.

If you followed this team like you claim that you know that winning is never easy. I don't know how long you have followed the NBA but a "bad team" coming off a 48-34 cannot get to 27-14@home under those circumstances(conflicts, injuries..) regardless of that "yeah it was only against other bad teams" .

The question should be "how the hell did they manage to win that many games with all those problems going on?!" and one of the answers should be..because of Fred VanVleet..we were 48-34 the season prior going into the playoffs as the favorite against Harden&Embiid&Maxey for many "experts"

Plus FO was just not going to give up on FVV, Pascal (and OG) after seeing them perform in the clutch in the playoffs hence going after the KDs and Lillards to win it all again: Winning aint easy and handling playofff pressure even harder (i.e. IQ could not handle it last summer, RJ could)

We can't ignore all that. Going into the draft the team had 2 potential DPOY (Scottie&OG) ,2 All Stars and the center (back) of the future:.
At that draft position going after a shooter made sense. Jordan Hawkins' executions and movements around that long lineup would have made sense

However, you don't just become Gatorade National Player of the Year because of great shooting alone. We will have to wait with Gradey. He could be the next Stauskas as well

[T-d0t]

The Raptors got a good prospect with Koloko early in the 2nd, and there's some bad luck with his health.

The youth movement didn't pan out. Trent didn't improve, Achiuwa got worse, Flynn was a bust, Banton and Johnson didn't pan out, Koloko's career may be up in the air (certainly safe to assume so without any information shared by the organization) and now Dick is putting up a terrible rookie season.

Yup the days where we were finding talent out the ass (Siakam, OG, Powell, Wright, Poeltl, FVV) are gone.

Edit: Barnes/IQ/RJ are hopefully the start of a new era

[dunk_a_roo]

dick two years away from being two years away

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Read on Twitter

[SpezNc]

Trade Gradey Dick with Siakam or even waive if it’s possible

What would be the rationale?

- FO thinking there is a decent chance he is not even a future rotational player here
- Saving face, and can answer questions about Siakam and not necessarily Gradey as much.
- realization, even under the ‘base case’ scenario, Gradey could easily replaceable
- maybe a team in the ‘Merica south think they can get something out of him, if they they the culture fit is wrong in cold Toronto,

While I agree with that assessment it would be a massive sell low. I also think it would be premature to trade him at this stage unless by including him you are able to get the prime asset you want but I doubt it work like that. It’s likely better to keep him , hope he gets better during the summer and at worst not exercising his 4th year rookie deal.

[Potential]

Whitmore, Podz, Hawkins and Keyonte today

Jaquez: 15 pts in 1st qtr
Hornets: 16 pts in 1st qtr

[Coco Costanza]

Until now the pick looks terrible. There's more than a handful of players picked after him that are contributing right now and have higher ceilings than Gradey as well.

Question is was Gradey a Masai pick or Bobby pick? Feels like Bobby had the call here since Gradey isn't exactly Masai's type. We've never drafted a player with his profile before let alone using a lottery pick on him. I also suspect if it were up to Bobby we would have ended up with Jalen Suggs. Masai probably overruled and went with Barnes which makes sense why even our own local reporters thought we were going with Suggs that year.

Yeah, I have to wonder who championed drafting Dick, unless it was just a matter of pouncing on him once they saw he dropped to them. Still, it wasn't necessarily either Bobby or Masai, possibly someone lower down who convinced them on draft night.

[dozo]

Until now the pick looks terrible. There's more than a handful of players picked after him that are contributing right now and have higher ceilings than Gradey as well.

Question is was Gradey a Masai pick or Bobby pick? Feels like Bobby had the call here since Gradey isn't exactly Masai's type. We've never drafted a player with his profile before let alone using a lottery pick on him. I also suspect if it were up to Bobby we would have ended up with Jalen Suggs. Masai probably overruled and went with Barnes which makes sense why even our own local reporters thought we were going with Suggs that year.

Yeah, I have to wonder who championed drafting Dick, unless it was just a matter of pouncing on him once they saw he dropped to them. Still, it wasn't necessarily either Bobby or Masai, possibly someone lower down who convinced them on draft night.

It would be nice to know. Babcock relied on the raptor scouts to pick Hoffa instead of using his own intuition and picking Iggy or Nelson.

Here is the list of the Raptors scouts.(I thought there would be more)

Chad Sanders, Director, Scouting
Aleem Hassanali, Specialist, Amateur Scouting
Ben Uzoh, Pro Scout
Mike Akuboh, Scout
Abel Nson, Scout

https://www.nba.com/raptors/team/raptors-management

I still hope Gradey reaches his full potential.

[Johnston]

Until now the pick looks terrible. There's more than a handful of players picked after him that are contributing right now and have higher ceilings than Gradey as well.

Question is was Gradey a Masai pick or Bobby pick? Feels like Bobby had the call here since Gradey isn't exactly Masai's type. We've never drafted a player with his profile before let alone using a lottery pick on him. I also suspect if it were up to Bobby we would have ended up with Jalen Suggs. Masai probably overruled and went with Barnes which makes sense why even our own local reporters thought we were going with Suggs that year.

Yeah, I have to wonder who championed drafting Dick, unless it was just a matter of pouncing on him once they saw he dropped to them. Still, it wasn't necessarily either Bobby or Masai, possibly someone lower down who convinced them on draft night.

If I remember correctly, Bobby Webster did an interview after the draft and he insinuated he didn't think Gradey would fall to us after the workout and he was in a league of his own in regards to the type of prospect he was compared to the others they worked out.

[Tor_Raps]

Crazy part is that if Dick starts making his 3s, everything else would fall in place for the guy. For someone who's supposed to be a shooter, I still refuse to believe he forgot how to do that.

Maybe it's more of him not being strong enough to adjust to the longer distance consistently. If he still has the same issues in year 2 then ya, this dude will be a waste.

[CazOnReal]

Not saying Dick isn't disappointing - and frankly i'd put the odds of Dick becoming a player as impactful as Jimmy Buckets at 5 percent - but it's way too early to give up on him becoming a rotation-level player (Huerter as a player comp). I feel like the NBA has become spoiled of late by rookies or generally young guys becoming immediate contributors to their teams and thus there's less patience when it comes to these young guys if they do struggle.

Yes it sucks to see other guys picked later thrive while Dick is struggling - I was pulling for Keyonte (who struggles with efficiency admittedly) but was ultimately fine with picking Dick 13th - however it's not out of the realm of possibility he bounces back after a disappointing rookie debut. Hell, Jabari Smith Jr. is doing just that in Houston. In fact there's a lot of similarities between Smith Jr,'s season and Dick i.e. being drafted for their shooting (Jabari was also coveted for his defense, Dick was noted to be a good passer) but the shots not falling in their first season.

Oh and for those wondering, Jimmy Buckets was 40.5% from the field, 18.2% from 3 and 76.8% from the line.