Official Immanuel Quickley Thread

[sidsid]

My problem is that I had this preconceived notion that he was a poor man's Maxey. I thought he was this speedy guard who could shoot the 3 but also get into the paint at will. I couldn't have been more wrong. He's just a shooter. Dude can't create any space off the dribble nor can he get by his man. And those few times he is able to get into the paint, he has zero vertical explosion. I would much rather use him as an off ball shooting threat, then this ball dominant lead guard that dribbles the air out of the ball without getting anywhere.

Yeah I am quite shocked. I did expect him to be a little more explosive and quicker. Like he could get to the rim, no problem.

The scariest thing I've seen so far is that he needs a screen to get downhill and I was really, really hoping that we were going to get away from that kind of guard. Not sure if he has the ability to develop in that area but we'll see.

It's just such a game changer when your guard can get passed his man and it's been a while since we had a player who could do that regularly.

He has the right skills and athleticism to be very dangerous in all areas, but in different ways.

No one complains about Steph's first step. He's used in a motion offense looking to unleash his historic C&S 3s. If the defense overcommits he gets to just jog into the paint for easy points. The rest of the time he gets easy playmaking opportunities off of it. The PNR is a last resort for that offense.

With all the draymond comparisons we had with Barnes, this is how IQ's offense and playmaking should be leveraged. Darko just needs to go back to the hub offense to fit his skillset again. He's a lead guard as a motion spacer more so than as a primary driver.

[realball]

Sigh.

He Is not a finished product
He has a history of his floater being reliable
He has not played with Yak...or a backup level C even
We have not been able to practice much at all

It's not about him being a traditional PG who is going to get 10 assists a game. It's about developing that side of his game to make him a more rounded guard. Look at GTJ who has failed miserably at doing this.

Man, this is turning into a real Bargnani situation where people are just in full out denial. Do you think guards only play well when there are Cs on the team or something? Are we going to pay IQ for his "history" or for the way he's playing with us?

It's great that he's developing a new side to his game, we don't need to pretend like he's been playing well while he's been adjusting though.

What are you even talking about.

He’s played 12 games with us. Obviously you’re gonna put more stock into the 200+ games he’s played prior to the trade than the 12 he played with a new team, system, role, etc.

The fact that he’s played “poorly” with us (but still has been pretty solid) is a big positive to me. He’s yet to play to his highest potential yet which leads to optimism.

In those 200+ games, he was a bench player. So are we going to play him like a bench player then?

As soon as he signs that contract, all that potential goes out the window. In six months, he will have to live up to a contract instead of just being a young player with potential.

[realball]

He hasn't been a reliable starter? He's had 2-3 poor games out of 12 games while learning a new role. Even when he has struggled shooting those few games, he found a way to contribute 10/11 assists and getting 4-5 rebounds per game.

You also keep comparing him to Dennis, which doesn't make sense to me for anyone actually watching the games.

I don't think you are familiar with IQ at all considering his current play is not far off from how he has played in the past.

I'm sorry, but your expectations are unrealistic and your takes are terrible.

He's had more than 2-3 poor games. And that's what makes him an unreliable starter... the poor games. Do you ever read what you are typing? Getting 10 assists while shooting 3-13 from the floor is not impressive.

Obviously you just keep adjusting your expectations to whatever he is playing as now. Some fans just can't look at their teams objectively.

Define poor? Because looking back at his 12 game game log I don’t see many poor games. Even in the games he doesn’t score (2 games below 10 points), he has double digit assists in both. Has hit 2+ 3’s in 11/12 games. Has turned the ball over more than 2 times only twice. Has scored 20+ 5 times.

Seriously - what did you expect from him? He’s been the best guard on the team this year, and that’s with zero practice time and zero PnR partners (where’s he’s really, really good).

The guy was putting up 15/3/3 in NY. He is now putting up 17/5/6. His play making growth so far has been impressive considering he didn’t do much of that in NY, and his scoring output has taken a bit of a dip, mostly because his otherwise reliable floater (for 3.5 seasons) hasn’t been falling so far in TO. I’m gonna bet on the 3.5 year sample size over the 3 week one he’s gonna figure that out.

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

[youngRAPZ]

He's had more than 2-3 poor games. And that's what makes him an unreliable starter... the poor games. Do you ever read what you are typing? Getting 10 assists while shooting 3-13 from the floor is not impressive.

Obviously you just keep adjusting your expectations to whatever he is playing as now. Some fans just can't look at their teams objectively.

Define poor? Because looking back at his 12 game game log I don’t see many poor games. Even in the games he doesn’t score (2 games below 10 points), he has double digit assists in both. Has hit 2+ 3’s in 11/12 games. Has turned the ball over more than 2 times only twice. Has scored 20+ 5 times.

Seriously - what did you expect from him? He’s been the best guard on the team this year, and that’s with zero practice time and zero PnR partners (where’s he’s really, really good).

The guy was putting up 15/3/3 in NY. He is now putting up 17/5/6. His play making growth so far has been impressive considering he didn’t do much of that in NY, and his scoring output has taken a bit of a dip, mostly because his otherwise reliable floater (for 3.5 seasons) hasn’t been falling so far in TO. I’m gonna bet on the 3.5 year sample size over the 3 week one he’s gonna figure that out.

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

Give it a rest already bud

[StopitLeo]

Not everyone scores 20 ppg, but you would think a player, known for being a scorer, averaging 15 ppg in 24 mins before the trade, would hit 20 ppg in 32 mins. And it's not like 20 ppg is benchmark... if he was scoring 17 ppg efficiently, this wouldn't be an issue. Your expectations are too low.

I’m sure he would be averaging 20 ppg if his goal was simply to score. He’s averaging almost 4 assists more per game than he did in NY. Playmaking is clearly a focus considering he is playing 8 mpg more than with the Knicks but taking only 0.6 additional 3PA—if you turn those 4 assist possessions into 3PA he’s now averaging 22 ppg (based on his current 3P%).

Quickley is also one of the best P&R ball-handlers in the game but has played more than half his games in Toronto without Poeltl who is one of the better P&R bigs in the league.

[OakleyDokely]

He's had more than 2-3 poor games. And that's what makes him an unreliable starter... the poor games. Do you ever read what you are typing? Getting 10 assists while shooting 3-13 from the floor is not impressive.

Obviously you just keep adjusting your expectations to whatever he is playing as now. Some fans just can't look at their teams objectively.

Define poor? Because looking back at his 12 game game log I don’t see many poor games. Even in the games he doesn’t score (2 games below 10 points), he has double digit assists in both. Has hit 2+ 3’s in 11/12 games. Has turned the ball over more than 2 times only twice. Has scored 20+ 5 times.

Seriously - what did you expect from him? He’s been the best guard on the team this year, and that’s with zero practice time and zero PnR partners (where’s he’s really, really good).

The guy was putting up 15/3/3 in NY. He is now putting up 17/5/6. His play making growth so far has been impressive considering he didn’t do much of that in NY, and his scoring output has taken a bit of a dip, mostly because his otherwise reliable floater (for 3.5 seasons) hasn’t been falling so far in TO. I’m gonna bet on the 3.5 year sample size over the 3 week one he’s gonna figure that out.

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

[YogurtProducer]

Define poor? Because looking back at his 12 game game log I don’t see many poor games. Even in the games he doesn’t score (2 games below 10 points), he has double digit assists in both. Has hit 2+ 3’s in 11/12 games. Has turned the ball over more than 2 times only twice. Has scored 20+ 5 times.

Seriously - what did you expect from him? He’s been the best guard on the team this year, and that’s with zero practice time and zero PnR partners (where’s he’s really, really good).

The guy was putting up 15/3/3 in NY. He is now putting up 17/5/6. His play making growth so far has been impressive considering he didn’t do much of that in NY, and his scoring output has taken a bit of a dip, mostly because his otherwise reliable floater (for 3.5 seasons) hasn’t been falling so far in TO. I’m gonna bet on the 3.5 year sample size over the 3 week one he’s gonna figure that out.

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

The guy has zero argument. He is exaggerating how "poor" Quickley has been (despite him not being poor), is hyper focused on efficiency (ignoring all context), does not even want to acknowledge his improved playmaking (BeCaUsE hE iS a ScOrEr), is already calling him a bad contract (that he has not even signed), and is now moving goalposts with the "I never said he cannot improve" bull etc.

Seems like a bad faith argument that is not worth having.

[realball]

Define poor? Because looking back at his 12 game game log I don’t see many poor games. Even in the games he doesn’t score (2 games below 10 points), he has double digit assists in both. Has hit 2+ 3’s in 11/12 games. Has turned the ball over more than 2 times only twice. Has scored 20+ 5 times.

Seriously - what did you expect from him? He’s been the best guard on the team this year, and that’s with zero practice time and zero PnR partners (where’s he’s really, really good).

The guy was putting up 15/3/3 in NY. He is now putting up 17/5/6. His play making growth so far has been impressive considering he didn’t do much of that in NY, and his scoring output has taken a bit of a dip, mostly because his otherwise reliable floater (for 3.5 seasons) hasn’t been falling so far in TO. I’m gonna bet on the 3.5 year sample size over the 3 week one he’s gonna figure that out.

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

League average TS is 57.2%. He's been below average as a scorer. His three point shooting has been good, that's it.

[OakleyDokely]

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

League average TS is 57.2%. He's been below average as a scorer. His three point shooting has been good, that's it.

You said poor.

Reality is, he's been off around the rim, he's been elite from 3 and his overall efficiency has been right around league average.

It's a lot easier just to state the truth.

[realball]

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

The guy has zero argument. He is exaggerating how "poor" Quickley has been (despite him not being poor), is hyper focused on efficiency (ignoring all context), does not even want to acknowledge his improved playmaking (BeCaUsE hE iS a ScOrEr), is already calling him a bad contract (that he has not even signed), and is now moving goalposts with the "I never said he cannot improve" bull etc.

Seems like a bad faith argument that is not worth having.

The extreme irony of you calling anyone hyper-focused, when all you are focused on is making excuses instead of looking at the complete picture.

Why are you playing stupid? Obviously he hasn't signed a contract, I was discussing the contract he will likely sign, which is going to way higher than the MLE. Do you think he's twice as valuable as Schroeder right now?

Do you even know what moving goalposts means? LOL.

[youngRAPZ]

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

League average TS is 57.2%. He's been below average as a scorer. His three point shooting has been good, that's it.

Have you ever thought that maybe the raptors know and are comfortable with his scoring ability and have asked him to work on his play making for the rest of the season so they can get a better idea on what they have as a total package?

[realball]

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

League average TS is 57.2%. He's been below average as a scorer. His three point shooting has been good, that's it.

You said poor.

Reality is, he's been off around the rim, he's been elite from 3 and his overall efficiency has been right around league average.

It's a lot easier just to state the truth.

Yeah, below average is poor. Don't know why you're getting into these semantics. Would it have made you feel better if I said not good instead?

[realball]

As a Raptor, he has shooting splits of 41 fg / 44 3pt / 85 ft / 56 ts

I don't know what stats you're looking at, but that isn't 'poor'

League average TS is 57.2%. He's been below average as a scorer. His three point shooting has been good, that's it.

Have you ever thought that maybe the raptors know and are comfortable with his scoring ability and have asked him to work on his play making for the rest of the season so they can get a better idea on what they have as a total package?

Do you think because a player is adjusting to a new role, it makes them immune from criticism or something?

[OakleyDokely]

League average TS is 57.2%. He's been below average as a scorer. His three point shooting has been good, that's it.

You said poor.

Reality is, he's been off around the rim, he's been elite from 3 and his overall efficiency has been right around league average.

It's a lot easier just to state the truth.

Yeah, below average is poor. Don't know why you're getting into these semantics. Would it have made you feel better if I said not good instead?

I was just clarifying your incorrect take.

[Fairview4Life]

He's had more than 2-3 poor games. And that's what makes him an unreliable starter... the poor games. Do you ever read what you are typing? Getting 10 assists while shooting 3-13 from the floor is not impressive.

Obviously you just keep adjusting your expectations to whatever he is playing as now. Some fans just can't look at their teams objectively.

Define poor? Because looking back at his 12 game game log I don’t see many poor games. Even in the games he doesn’t score (2 games below 10 points), he has double digit assists in both. Has hit 2+ 3’s in 11/12 games. Has turned the ball over more than 2 times only twice. Has scored 20+ 5 times.

Seriously - what did you expect from him? He’s been the best guard on the team this year, and that’s with zero practice time and zero PnR partners (where’s he’s really, really good).

The guy was putting up 15/3/3 in NY. He is now putting up 17/5/6. His play making growth so far has been impressive considering he didn’t do much of that in NY, and his scoring output has taken a bit of a dip, mostly because his otherwise reliable floater (for 3.5 seasons) hasn’t been falling so far in TO. I’m gonna bet on the 3.5 year sample size over the 3 week one he’s gonna figure that out.

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

You should probably take a few mins to try and figure out why his FG% has dropped a little bit. The sample sizes here are extremely small. The difference between him shooting the same % in Toronto vs. what he was shooting in NY is 3 more makes at the rim, 6 makes from 3-10 feet, 3 makes from 10-16 feet, 1 make from 16-3P and he's hit 4 more 3's than he would have in NY on the same volume of shots he's taken here. Across 12 games. Like we are literally talking about the fact he's missed an extra 0.25 shots per game at the rim, 0.5 shots per game in the lane, 0.25 shots per game from 10-16 feet, whatever the hell 1/12 of a shot is from 16-3P and he's made an extra 1/3 of a shot per game from 3. Less than one extra missed shot per game and he's supposedly "struggling".

I think you should not be worried at all.

[realball]

You said poor.

Reality is, he's been off around the rim, he's been elite from 3 and his overall efficiency has been right around league average.

It's a lot easier just to state the truth.

Yeah, below average is poor. Don't know why you're getting into these semantics. Would it have made you feel better if I said not good instead?

I was just clarifying your incorrect take.

Sorry if my language was too strong for you, Ms. Lovejoy.

[OakleyDokely]

Yeah, below average is poor. Don't know why you're getting into these semantics. Would it have made you feel better if I said not good instead?

I was just clarifying your incorrect take.

Sorry if my language was too strong for you, Ms. Lovejoy.

Well, when you judge a players entire performance based one stat like fg% (in 2024), some clarification is needed.

[realball]

Define poor? Because looking back at his 12 game game log I don’t see many poor games. Even in the games he doesn’t score (2 games below 10 points), he has double digit assists in both. Has hit 2+ 3’s in 11/12 games. Has turned the ball over more than 2 times only twice. Has scored 20+ 5 times.

Seriously - what did you expect from him? He’s been the best guard on the team this year, and that’s with zero practice time and zero PnR partners (where’s he’s really, really good).

The guy was putting up 15/3/3 in NY. He is now putting up 17/5/6. His play making growth so far has been impressive considering he didn’t do much of that in NY, and his scoring output has taken a bit of a dip, mostly because his otherwise reliable floater (for 3.5 seasons) hasn’t been falling so far in TO. I’m gonna bet on the 3.5 year sample size over the 3 week one he’s gonna figure that out.

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

You should probably take a few mins to try and figure out why his FG% has dropped a little bit. The sample sizes here are extremely small. The difference between him shooting the same % in Toronto vs. what he was shooting in NY is 3 more makes at the rim, 6 makes from 3-10 feet, 3 makes from 10-16 feet, 1 make from 16-3P and he's hit 4 more 3's than he would have in NY on the same volume of shots he's taken here. Across 12 games. Like we are literally talking about the fact he's missed an extra 0.25 shots per game at the rim, 0.5 shots per game in the lane, 0.25 shots per game from 10-16 feet, whatever the hell 1/12 of a shot is from 16-3P and he's made an extra 1/3 of a shot per game from 3. Less than one extra missed shot per game and he's supposedly "struggling".

I think you should not be worried at all.

I am not making any assumptions on whether his finishing around the rim is going to improve or not. It could go either way, he could improve and become the reliable starter we all want him to be, or he could be the player he is now. He's a fourth year guard, usually guards are starting their prime around this age while bigs take longer to develop. There's no guarantee that he will improve. All I'm saying, based on what we've seen so far, he's not looked like a reliable starter. And we will probably have to pay him a lot regardless.

[realball]

I was just clarifying your incorrect take.

Sorry if my language was too strong for you, Ms. Lovejoy.

Well, when you judge a players entire performance based one stat like fg% (in 2024), some clarification is needed.

I actually discussed his assists as well, compared them to other players. You just latched on to the conversation late with some pointless, unneeded semantics.

[Fairview4Life]

I would define poor as shooting 41% from the field. I was expecting him to be an efficient scorer, that's what he was in New York. Clearly, you either had zero expectations, or keep adjusting them on the fly.

And once again, just building up strawmen to knock down. Did I say he has no chance of improving? I would love to see him improve, but I am not delusional enough to think that every young player is going to improve.

You should probably take a few mins to try and figure out why his FG% has dropped a little bit. The sample sizes here are extremely small. The difference between him shooting the same % in Toronto vs. what he was shooting in NY is 3 more makes at the rim, 6 makes from 3-10 feet, 3 makes from 10-16 feet, 1 make from 16-3P and he's hit 4 more 3's than he would have in NY on the same volume of shots he's taken here. Across 12 games. Like we are literally talking about the fact he's missed an extra 0.25 shots per game at the rim, 0.5 shots per game in the lane, 0.25 shots per game from 10-16 feet, whatever the hell 1/12 of a shot is from 16-3P and he's made an extra 1/3 of a shot per game from 3. Less than one extra missed shot per game and he's supposedly "struggling".

I think you should not be worried at all.

I am not making any assumptions on whether his finishing around the rim is going to improve or not. It could go either way, he could improve and become the reliable starter we all want him to be, or he could be the player he is now. He's a fourth year guard, usually guards are starting their prime around this age while bigs take longer to develop. There's no guarantee that he will improve. All I'm saying, based on what we've seen so far, he's not looked like a reliable starter. And we will probably have to pay him a lot regardless.

But you are making assumptions that his finishing around the rim/in the lane in Toronto is his new normal, and not the much larger sample size playing in NY. You are making an assumption that the one extra shot he has missed every 2 games here is something that is going to be his new shooting %. What he did previously over a much larger number of shots no longer matters.

And he has absolutely looked like a reliable starter.