Official NBA General Discussion 2023-24 V1.0

[NinjaBro]

A Fred/Siakam led team with OG and Barnes was a failure last year. Even after adding Yak, they choked to a little girl screaming from the stands. And that's with Nurse as coach.

They talked about culture but in reality created a culture of getting paid was the top priority, not winning. The head of that snake was FVV and Nurse was the enabler.

People can be good individually, but bad fits on the same team. And that's what this had become.

Agreed that's why I was over the moon that Nurse and FVV were gone this offseason. OG hated playing with FVV (as mentioned by Nurse in his book) as FVV was all about himself and created this toxic culture in our organization and Nurse enabled it. Masai should've cleaned house a long time ago.




"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

[NinjaBro]

FVV! Nah I never wanted him back. A younger quicker replacement yes

Yeah I wanted Jak badly at the time cause we went so stupidly long with no C. But I see now Turner would have been better, or a cheaper young energy C.

Maybe you're right it wasn't doable, but I wish they'd tried.

Anyway I'm happy watching Knicks games now, except they're not all on TV here. Just still sad at how a great team was allowed to fall apart so badly.

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

I hear ya, but I'm rolling with Norm on this one.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/raptors-champion-reveals-being-hurt-by-trade

"I didn't wanna leave Toronto," Powell said. "I didn't wanna leave Toronto if I'm being dead serious. I wanted to stay. I always felt that the team that we had, the youth that we had, that core that we had, could've been what Boston is now. If you kept us all together... That young core we were rocking with in Toronto, we always thought we were gonna be the next up... When I got traded, it hurt. It hurt Fred [VanVleet], too... I didn't wanna leave Toronto, I thought we had something special."

Having won a championship in 2019, Powell felt that young Raptors core was a couple additions away from being special, even after the departure of Kawhi Leonard.

God I love Norm so much. Trading him away was one of Masai's biggest misstep. If we had traded FVV instead and signed Brunson who was blowing up, things would've been so different.

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

[ash_k]

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

I hear ya, but I'm rolling with Norm on this one.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/raptors-champion-reveals-being-hurt-by-trade

"I didn't wanna leave Toronto," Powell said. "I didn't wanna leave Toronto if I'm being dead serious. I wanted to stay. I always felt that the team that we had, the youth that we had, that core that we had, could've been what Boston is now. If you kept us all together... That young core we were rocking with in Toronto, we always thought we were gonna be the next up... When I got traded, it hurt. It hurt Fred [VanVleet], too... I didn't wanna leave Toronto, I thought we had something special."

Having won a championship in 2019, Powell felt that young Raptors core was a couple additions away from being special, even after the departure of Kawhi Leonard.

God I love Norm so much. Trading him away was one of Masai's biggest misstep. If we had traded FVV instead and signed Brunson who was blowing up, things would've been so different.

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

Were you ready to almost max out Norm? You were not...cause that is what his level of play on our team was going towards.
Getting Younger Gary Trent Jr was one of his best moves..Junior averaged 20pts per game in his last 4 PLAYOFF GAMES(6xers)!
We have moved Junior around too much ..we even had him as the number 1 option for about 2 weeks looking like a future All-Star.
Gary is certainly not a 11.5 points per game player. This level of regression has been the most surprising of the season.
No ORG in their right mind would have traded a FVV in his mid-20s, after what he did in the NBA Finals.

[ash_k]

Thibs has
Brunson
DiVin
OG
Randle
Sims ....thinking they can do something
Hard to believe we just couldn't do anything with
OG
Scottie
Pascal
Jak
Denis...12-19...hard to believe

Raps had a special core but Masai failed to add the right pieces to it. In his post Pascal trade speech he said how much he believed in the group, which sounds nice. But he did a terrible job of adding to it.

Believing in OG, Pascal and FVV wasn't the mistake. They've all proven to be really good players that impact winning. He just never put the right pieces around to help them succeed. We've been begging for more outside shooting for years and it took losing all of them before Masai finally decides to start making shooting be a priority.

You are just forgetting this little minor detail of going after both All-Worlds Kevin Durant and Dame Lillard: While you were asking for more McDermotts of this World , FO was Big-name hunting. Even hunted Myles Turner, glad to see that some of us finally realized he was the right fit over Jakob Then Once it all failed and Free-Agency got close and your record is 12-19(underperforming) then you have to make some moves as you just cant justify paying any of those 25 years old+guys. Had we been 19-12 like we should have, do we trade both guys still? I doubt it.

[Los_29]

Happy for Pascal. What a night for him and pretty shocked they were able to beat a Sixers team without Haliburton. When Haliburton gets back they are going to be a fun team to watch. I think Pascal will thrive there playing with a talent like Haliburton and being surrounded by shooters.

[NinjaBro]

No ORG in their right mind would have traded a FVV in his mid-20s, after what he did in the NBA Finals.

Should've traded him right away at his peak as soon as Kawhi made the phone call to Masai that he wasn't coming back. Would've saved us years of watching this chucker fill the organization with his toxicity. Made the team completely unwatchable with his me first attitude thinking he's a superstar. It's outrageous that we had OG and Pascal and they had to take a backseat to this bozo and his 39% FG. Nurse and Masai had to take a lot of the blame as well.

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

[ash_k]

What is very noticeable is the effort level of the 3 traded players is night and day. Can they keep it up for a full season? Who knows. But they weren't playing this hard in Toronto which is why this team sucked.

The Raptors do a very good job of developing though. Look around the league at former Raptors and how they're contributing. Let's hope they can do the same with the new wave of young guys.

We had them for years, effort-level was never an issue. "We" even accused some of them for wanting to do stuff they were NOT equipped to do.

[ash_k]

No ORG in their right mind would have traded a FVV in his mid-20s, after what he did in the NBA Finals.

Should've traded him right away at his peak as soon as Kawhi made the phone call to Masai that he wasn't coming back. Would've saved us years of watching this chucker fill the organization with his toxicity. Made the team completely unwatchable with his me first attitude thinking he's a superstar. It's outrageous that we had OG and Pascal and they had to take a backseat to this bozo and his 39% FG. Nurse and Masai had to take a lot of the blame as well.

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

During "peek" FVV, OG played 43 and 48 games thus he didn't even have time to establish a 'frontseat' to even speak about 'taking a backseat' while Pascal was an All-Star and All-NBA so...review your sources

[MoneyBall]

An impressive performance by Siakam. Effecient triple double leading his team to victory over the Sixers without Hali.

[WaltFrazier]

Happy for Pascal. What a night for him and pretty shocked they were able to beat a Sixers team without Haliburton. When Haliburton gets back they are going to be a fun team to watch. I think Pascal will thrive there playing with a talent like Haliburton and being surrounded by shooters.

Are you happy for Precious too? You were a booster of his early on. He's starting to do well as the small ball C we always hoped for. It's nice to see. I think his role is better defined now and he never takes too many dribbles. Still his bad hands show up sometimes but mostly Thibs has him sticking to rebounding and defense.

[Los_29]

Happy for Pascal. What a night for him and pretty shocked they were able to beat a Sixers team without Haliburton. When Haliburton gets back they are going to be a fun team to watch. I think Pascal will thrive there playing with a talent like Haliburton and being surrounded by shooters.

Are you happy for Precious too? You were a booster of his early on. He's starting to do well as the small ball C we always hoped for. It's nice to see. I think his role is better defined now and he never takes too many dribbles. Still his bad hands show up sometimes but mostly Thibs has him sticking to rebounding and defense.

I don’t think he’s doing well at all. lol. Disappointed that he never developed. He’s an incredible athlete that showed great flashes as a shooter two years ago. If he had any feel for the game he would’ve been a great player. That’s one thing that doesn’t develop easily though.

[WaltFrazier]

Happy for Pascal. What a night for him and pretty shocked they were able to beat a Sixers team without Haliburton. When Haliburton gets back they are going to be a fun team to watch. I think Pascal will thrive there playing with a talent like Haliburton and being surrounded by shooters.

Are you happy for Precious too? You were a booster of his early on. He's starting to do well as the small ball C we always hoped for. It's nice to see. I think his role is better defined now and he never takes too many dribbles. Still his bad hands show up sometimes but mostly Thibs has him sticking to rebounding and defense.

I don’t think he’s doing well at all. lol. Disappointed that he never developed. He’s an incredible athlete that showed great flashes as a shooter two years ago. If he had any feel for the game he would’ve been a great player. That’s one thing that doesn’t develop easily though.

I don't think he'll ever have that feel, agreed. But he's had 3 solid games in a row now, 11,10 and 9 boards, playing 20-25 minutes with Hartenstein being out. We'll see what happens when Hartenstein returns but Thibs is happy with him now.

[ciueli]

It stopped being a great team the moment Kawhi and Lowry left.

I made my peace with it years ago which is why I was advocating for a rebuild after the Tampa season.

These guys helped bring a championship here, there’s nothing else they needed to achieve here. Siakam and OG are in better situations, OG can finally display his talents in the biggest media market. Siakam can play what’s left of his prime on a playoff contender.

The Raptors can finally do a rebuild without the burden of trying to appease everyone.

I’m at peace with it, I hope others can be too eventually.

I hear ya, but I'm rolling with Norm on this one.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/raptors-champion-reveals-being-hurt-by-trade

"I didn't wanna leave Toronto," Powell said. "I didn't wanna leave Toronto if I'm being dead serious. I wanted to stay. I always felt that the team that we had, the youth that we had, that core that we had, could've been what Boston is now. If you kept us all together... That young core we were rocking with in Toronto, we always thought we were gonna be the next up... When I got traded, it hurt. It hurt Fred [VanVleet], too... I didn't wanna leave Toronto, I thought we had something special."

Having won a championship in 2019, Powell felt that young Raptors core was a couple additions away from being special, even after the departure of Kawhi Leonard.

I still don’t understand why the raptors didn’t want keep norm after consistently improving, breaking out, and then still being the same age as fvv and siakam, but felt he was the one needed to be replaced to go younger? It made no sense… he’s been just as consistent offensively soncehe was traded too… and he already had chemistry with everyone… I’m not sure what was in their heads at the time… media liked to scapegoat his defense too… fvv, norm, og, siakam, poeltl with Barnes and shooters off the bench actually could’ve been a good team…

That being said I never really liked fvv being such a focal point… too inefficient.

Masai is deathly allergic to handing out 5 year contracts and even 4 year deals in some cases. Pascal didn't get a 5 year contract, Kyle didn't get a 5 year contract, did anyone think Norm was going to be given the 5 year deal he wound up signing?

Of course now we see the impact of Masai's penny pinching in terms of never being willing to hand out more years on contracts. Norm downgraded into GTJ, both Pascal and OG lost trade value due to fewer years on their contracts. The rumours we've heard indicate no contact extension was signed with Pascal because Masai was only willing to offer 3 years and no more, so we trade him for a bag of beans instead. Masai really has let his fear of long term deals ruin this franchise.

[Madvillainy2004]

No ORG in their right mind would have traded a FVV in his mid-20s, after what he did in the NBA Finals.

Should've traded him right away at his peak as soon as Kawhi made the phone call to Masai that he wasn't coming back. Would've saved us years of watching this chucker fill the organization with his toxicity. Made the team completely unwatchable with his me first attitude thinking he's a superstar. It's outrageous that we had OG and Pascal and they had to take a backseat to this bozo and his 39% FG. Nurse and Masai had to take a lot of the blame as well.

"If you want to lose brain cells go read Realgm" - Pensare Basketball

During "peek" FVV, OG played 43 and 48 games thus he didn't even have time to establish a 'frontseat' to even speak about 'taking a backseat' while Pascal was an All-Star and All-NBA so...review your sources

Lmao not to say Fred is a great volume guy but how can anyone watch OG Anunoby play and think him doing more on offense is an answer to anything. He can't do anything unless it's a open 3 pointer or a transition dunk. His role in the NY is what I thought any good team that traded for him would have him do. Be insanely aggressively on defense + space the floor in a low volume efficient role on offense. There was no missing offensive potential there.

Fred was miscast but he was (and still is) a very good and impactful player despite his low FG% (he also takes like 9 3s a game so no idea why anyone would use that). He's been Houstons second best player this year and actually has a higher EPM than Scottie right now.

[PushDaRock]

Raps had a special core but Masai failed to add the right pieces to it. In his post Pascal trade speech he said how much he believed in the group, which sounds nice. But he did a terrible job of adding to it.

Believing in OG, Pascal and FVV wasn't the mistake. They've all proven to be really good players that impact winning. He just never put the right pieces around to help them succeed. We've been begging for more outside shooting for years and it took losing all of them before Masai finally decides to start making shooting be a priority.

You are just forgetting this little minor detail of going after both All-Worlds Kevin Durant and Dame Lillard: While you were asking for more McDermotts of this World , FO was Big-name hunting. Even hunted Myles Turner, glad to see that some of us finally realized he was the right fit over Jakob Then Once it all failed and Free-Agency got close and your record is 12-19(underperforming) then you have to make some moves as you just cant justify paying any of those 25 years old+guys. Had we been 19-12 like we should have, do we trade both guys still? I doubt it.

The failure has primarily been on the development side. Excluding Barnes who you expect to hit on given draft status, we haven't developed anyone even into a rotation player since OG.

[Duffman100]

100+ pages (well done).

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