Bulls Trade Rumors Only

[Stratmaster]

Thanks for this reply bc the OP is a joke of a take. One of the worst Bulls takes I’ve seen in years. I usually am always fair to my fellow bulls brethren but that was utterly ridiculous. The way this team has been run since Lonzo’s injury is absolutely embarrassing and horrifying.

There has been no accountability and it’s been a re-run of a bad tv show for a few years.

I refuse to believe there wasn’t a move to be made in one direction or another. When the only move you’ve made in the trade market for 30 months was giving away a franchise player, how anyone could support these guys…is so far beyond me it’s sickening.

I’m gonna pull up short of posting receipts off all the fans here who thought Jevon Carter should start over Coby White. Maybe some of the same people giving AKME a pass over and over.

Yeah I’m pissed off.

Calling Lauri a franchise player is a huge exaggeration. If he was still here paired Coby we would actually have a future though. At this point we have to pray Pat pulls a Coby type rise(impossible as long both DeMar and Vuc are here) that we get really lucky in he draft lottery. We probably won’t even have our pick in 2025.

Lauri is a top 15 player in the league by most advanced metrics. He's absolutely a franchise player, without question.

He's 11th in the league in PER this year and the only people ahead of him are all superstars.

Here's a list of players over the past two seasons who have scored at least 20 PPG on at least 64 TS%:

- Lauri
- Jokic
- Embiid
- Giannis
- Curry
- SGA
- KD
- Kawhi
- Lillard
- Jimmy
- Zion

Every single one of those players are bonafide superstars and franchise players.

Well what would 27 ppg on .634 be then?

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[WindyCityBorn]

KC Johnson reported on the bullstalk podcast the Warriors called about Caruso, Bulls asked for Kuminga, Warriors said no Kuminga. There were variations of deals discussed but with Kuminga off the table the Bulls ultimately passed.

KC also reported he believes Derozan gets signed to an extension before he hits free agency, just like Vucevic a year ago.

Kendall Gill thinks that’s also a reason Drummond did not get traded, because the Bulls intend to keep him as well.

Continuity. Yay.

This will only be viable and staying under tax unless we trade Zach in a partial salary dump manner.

Yep.

[kulaz3000]

KC Johnson reported on the bullstalk podcast the Warriors called about Caruso, Bulls asked for Kuminga, Warriors said no Kuminga. There were variations of deals discussed but with Kuminga off the table the Bulls ultimately passed.

KC also reported he believes Derozan gets signed to an extension before he hits free agency, just like Vucevic a year ago.

Kendall Gill thinks that’s also a reason Drummond did not get traded, because the Bulls intend to keep him as well.

Continuity. Yay.

This will only be viable and staying under tax unless we trade Zach in a partial salary dump manner.

Clearly the plans is to attempt to trade him during the off season, but I'm not sure how much luck they'll have with that. Unless they go over the tax, and then salary dump Zach to a team below the cap that can just absorb him.

[GoBlue72391]

Read on Twitter

Then what’s the point of this tweet then?

The man needs attention.

[Stratmaster]

Are you seriously asking why various models aimed at predicting the future have variance between them?

Yes. Why they would have a 300% disparity. If I were bringing a product to market and I was given that kind of a range for its odds of success I would fire the team that brought it to me.

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Well, first, that analogy is weird and inapt. But in any event, you're missing the forest for the trees. Regardless of how unlikely it is, exactly, all of the main prognostication models believe it is substantially unlikely that the Bulls will miss the playoffs. That's bad for a team that believes that it is "competitive."

I'm rooting for the Bulls to make the playoffs. I hope it happens. But the reality is that, despite better play of late, this is still a sub-.500 team with an abysmal record against good NBA teams that is going to have an uphill battle merely to get into the playoffs and lose in the first round.

No. The comment was that ESPN was bad at math. You then quoted others and said they weren't. That kind of variance in statistical analysis, if accepted, would mean we might as well just take a wild ass guess.

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[GoBlue72391]

All these fans in here calling this a mediocre team, but if this team was fully healthy, Coby's going back to the bench. That's how talented Ball, Lavine, and Derozan are. And that team is winning a lot of games, with White, Caruso, Ayo, Craig, Carter, Drummond off the bench. Probably a 3 or 4 seed at least.

This team is not mediocre in terms of talent.

Today has been an absolute record day for outlandish takes.

[Stratmaster]

I will guarantee you that the Bulls will fight for a play-in spot and IF they make it they will lose and not make the playoffs and IF by some miracle they make the playoffs they'll be bounced round 1.

Those other examples you used were all outcomes that were unpredictable and unprecedented. This is the same team it has been for 3 years with the same results.

I did predict that the Bulls would do nothing at the deadline, because it's the same thing they've done for 2 straight deadlines before this one. So maybe I do have a little Nostradamus in me, or maybe it was just easy to predict based on past events.

Wow, that is quite the guarantee. I guarantee A. But if not, I guarantee B. But if not A or B, I guarantee C.

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Ok, first of all there was only 2 guarantees. Fighting for a play-in spot and then losing if they do make it and the if by some miracle they do make the playoffs they'll get bounced first round.

If anything I made 2 guarantees, not guarantees with options.

The 2 are intertwined into one another, it's not like I said I guarantee the team misses the playoffs, unless they make it and then they'll go to the ECFs.

Are you saying the guarantees I made are unlikely?

You just mentioned 3 things again my friend. And it isn't a guarantee if you say "I guarantee A... but if not I guarantee B". It is impossible for both a and b to happen. You can't guarantee both. Which one are you guaranteeing?

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[WindyCityBorn]

Continuity. Yay.

This will only be viable and staying under tax unless we trade Zach in a partial salary dump manner.

Clearly the plans is to attempt to trade him during the off season, but I'm not sure how much luck they'll have with that. Unless they go over the tax, and then salary dump Zach to a team below the cap that can just absorb him.

What teams can even afford to absorb his contract while sending out significantly less? And what team would choose to do that if he truly sucks so bad to be only worth a salary dump with 3 years left on max contract? They are gonna send us back even worse players just making less money. I cannot see any way this happens.

[GoBlue72391]

Calling Lauri a franchise player is a huge exaggeration. If he was still here paired Coby we would actually have a future though. At this point we have to pray Pat pulls a Coby type rise(impossible as long both DeMar and Vuc are here) that we get really lucky in he draft lottery. We probably won’t even have our pick in 2025.

Lauri is a top 15 player in the league by most advanced metrics. He's absolutely a franchise player, without question.

He's 11th in the league in PER this year and the only people ahead of him are all superstars.

Here's a list of players over the past two seasons who have scored at least 20 PPG on at least 64 TS%:

- Lauri
- Jokic
- Embiid
- Giannis
- Curry
- SGA
- KD
- Kawhi
- Lillard
- Jimmy
- Zion

Every single one of those players are bonafide superstars and franchise players.

Well what would 27 ppg on .634 be then?

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If you're referring to Zach from a few years ago, you should know I've always been a pretty big supporter of his. I believed he was a franchise player at that time, as did most of us.

[Infinity2152]

Lauri is a top 15 player in the league by most advanced metrics. He's absolutely a franchise player, without question.

He's 11th in the league in PER this year and the only people ahead of him are all superstars.

Here's a list of players over the past two seasons who have scored at least 20 PPG on at least 64 TS%:

- Lauri
- Jokic
- Embiid
- Giannis
- Curry
- SGA
- KD
- Kawhi
- Lillard
- Jimmy
- Zion

Every single one of those players are bonafide superstars and franchise players.

That 64% seems arbitrary as heck, lol. Checked some stats, Zach was at 61% and Debo at 59%. If only they'd shot slightly better, they could be bonafide superstars and franchise players too.

Huge difference between 64 and 61/59. Ridiculous take. Choose whatever parameters you like, all the numbers say Lauri is elite.

First of all, TS% doesn't even factor in three point attempts, Zach took 7+ 3pt'ers a game the last two years. If Zach scored the exact same amount of points, but shooting 4 free throws instead of 5.6, his TS% is 63.3. Which means he makes 1 more 2 pt shot and takes two less free throws. Yeah, that's a huge difference.

That's why people don't even use TS% in today's three point shooting league, unless they're trying to prove a point.

[FriedRise]

All these fans in here calling this a mediocre team, but if this team was fully healthy, Coby's going back to the bench. That's how talented Ball, Lavine, and Derozan are. And that team is winning a lot of games, with White, Caruso, Ayo, Craig, Carter, Drummond off the bench. Probably a 3 or 4 seed at least.

This team is not mediocre in terms of talent.

Today has been an absolute record day for outlandish takes.

Coby would still start. Lonzo would play PF.

Coby / Caruso / DeMar / Lonzo / Vooch

Goddamn that team would’ve been so fun to watch.

[Salo23]

Here is another thing that no one has really talked about.

What are we going to do with Drummond?

If you remember, Drummond, luckily I might add, decided to opt back in to the team. If not we would have had no backup bigs on the roster.

Drummond is easily one of the best backup bigs in the NBA. If he walks, how do we replace that without taking a step backwards? We are screwing ourselves.

We should re-sign him.

I agree but then I remember the big salary coming off is Zach.

In addition, if Lonzo experiences pain and discomfort again after a 3rd surgery, I assume the Bulls explore the medical retirement option which would clear over $20M in salary off the books, giving the team more wiggle room under the tax to sign Demar, Pat and Andre to extensions (sigh).

[_txchilibowl_]

Thanks for this reply bc the OP is a joke of a take. One of the worst Bulls takes I’ve seen in years. I usually am always fair to my fellow bulls brethren but that was utterly ridiculous. The way this team has been run since Lonzo’s injury is absolutely embarrassing and horrifying.

You could have just replied to me. I'm a big boy. I can handle it.

We just see basketball differently my friend. I am far from a championship or bust kind of guy. And I definitely don't think that being bad is the only way to get good. I'm team continuity. I want to establish a winning identity. I want people to say Bulls Culture the way they say Heat Culture. You, and apparently many others, would rather just take their chances with the lottery.

I'd like to make the playoffs this year. What a terrible take.

I’m not championship or bust, but this team has ZERO hope of even dreaming about championship even if EVERYTHING fell correctly. Best case scenario is a first round exit every season. Not sure how you can be satisfied with that.

I'm not satisfied with that. I want to win championships. There just isn't a path to that right now. So in the meantime I'll enjoy this team for what it is...a nice mix of young talent and solid vets who enjoy playing basketball for the Chicago Bulls and the city of Chicago.

Additionally, nobody has suggested an alternative plan that would be any better. All that's been suggested is a reset. A teardown. Essentially the most unimaginative "plan" a franchise can have. Zero ideas on what the next steps look like. I'm not comfortable with a "plan" like that. Much more comfortable with changing the culture and league wide perception of the franchise. I think it's far more likely that course pays dividends then hope and pray on the lottery.

It's basically be bad until you can be good. I'd rather pretty good until we can be really good.

[Lunartic]

Okay guys , just woke up!
What are some of the smart trades the Bulls made to improve their mediocre roster today?

Maybe list their top-3 moves this deadline and we can discuss the smaller less impactful ones after?

[GoBlue72391]

That 64% seems arbitrary as heck, lol. Checked some stats, Zach was at 61% and Debo at 59%. If only they'd shot slightly better, they could be bonafide superstars and franchise players too.

Huge difference between 64 and 61/59. Ridiculous take. Choose whatever parameters you like, all the numbers say Lauri is elite.

First of all, TS% doesn't even factor in three point attempts, Zach took 7+ 3pt'ers a game the last two years. If Zach scored the exact same amount of points, but shooting 4 free throws instead of 5.6, his TS% is 63.3. Which means he makes 1 more 2 pt shot and takes two less free throws. Yeah, that's a huge difference.

Zach's current trade value is zilch. If Lauri were to be traded today he would return 2-4 1sts and at least 1 young player with potential.

I've always liked Zach. Not sure what dragging him into this convo does.

If you think Lauri isn't at least 3rd team all-NBA caliber, then show me the numbers that back that up, because all the numbers point to him being a top 15 player. Throw TS% out the window and pick a different advanced metric.

[weneeda2guard]

Alot of doom and gloom its expected

I do have a couple of questions though that I'm not seeing answered.

Who should we have traded for? I saw that we were close to trading Caruso for kuminga that's the kind of deal I want to see but golden state tried to counter with moody. Who should we have traded for? Again without this being a move just to say we did something, who was on the move that we should have landed? Grant Williams? Bojan bodanovic? Daniel gafford? Dennis Schroeder? Patrick Beverly? Who should we have nabbed? Buddy hield? Alex burcs?

2nd question, should everyone in the western and Eastern Conference ranging from 7th - let's say 11th in the standings should all those teams tank and blow it up? Should every team that is not a true title contender blow it up considering that is the space where you could be classified as treadmill?

[jnrjr79]

Yes. Why they would have a 300% disparity. If I were bringing a product to market and I was given that kind of a range for its odds of success I would fire the team that brought it to me.

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Well, first, that analogy is weird and inapt. But in any event, you're missing the forest for the trees. Regardless of how unlikely it is, exactly, all of the main prognostication models believe it is substantially unlikely that the Bulls will miss the playoffs. That's bad for a team that believes that it is "competitive."

I'm rooting for the Bulls to make the playoffs. I hope it happens. But the reality is that, despite better play of late, this is still a sub-.500 team with an abysmal record against good NBA teams that is going to have an uphill battle merely to get into the playoffs and lose in the first round.

No. The comment was that ESPN was bad at math. You then quoted others and said they weren't. That kind of variance in statistical analysis, if accepted, would mean we might as well just take a wild ass guess.

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The comment that ESPN was bad at "math" was weird in the first instance, since this isn't even a question of "math," but if you want to use the fact that one source thinks the Bulls have a 10% chance of making the playoffs and another source thinks it's 20% as a basis to argue the Bull have a good chance of making the playoffs, have at it, I guess.

[League Circles]

Here is another thing that no one has really talked about.

What are we going to do with Drummond?

If you remember, Drummond, luckily I might add, decided to opt back in to the team. If not we would have had no backup bigs on the roster.

Drummond is easily one of the best backup bigs in the NBA. If he walks, how do we replace that without taking a step backwards? We are screwing ourselves.

We should re-sign him.

We won’t pay the luxury tax so something will have to give. Resigning DeRozan, Williams and Drummond will put us right at the tax line. So basically exact same team plus our draft picks.

I haven't reviewed the numbers but I expect they may stretch-waive Ball to avoid the tax. Also I don't expect Demar to make any more than he does now, nor do I expect Patrick to make more than about 14 mil/year at the most, maybe only MLE money or the QO, whatever that is. I think they may work a trade with Patrick as well. Also I'm not so sure we won't pay the tax. If we win at least two real playoff games in the first round against a top 4 team in the east, I think they'll consider paying tax.

[Stratmaster]

Lauri is a top 15 player in the league by most advanced metrics. He's absolutely a franchise player, without question.

He's 11th in the league in PER this year and the only people ahead of him are all superstars.

Here's a list of players over the past two seasons who have scored at least 20 PPG on at least 64 TS%:

- Lauri
- Jokic
- Embiid
- Giannis
- Curry
- SGA
- KD
- Kawhi
- Lillard
- Jimmy
- Zion

Every single one of those players are bonafide superstars and franchise players.

Well what would 27 ppg on .634 be then?

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If you're referring to Zach from a few years ago, you should know I've always been a pretty big supporter of his. I believed he was a franchise player at that time, as did most of us.

Yep. And Billy Donovan managed to neuter him lol.

I know you were a supporter.

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[Infinity2152]

Huge difference between 64 and 61/59. Ridiculous take. Choose whatever parameters you like, all the numbers say Lauri is elite.

First of all, TS% doesn't even factor in three point attempts, Zach took 7+ 3pt'ers a game the last two years. If Zach scored the exact same amount of points, but shooting 4 free throws instead of 5.6, his TS% is 63.3. Which means he makes 1 more 2 pt shot and takes two less free throws. Yeah, that's a huge difference.

Zach's current trade value is zilch. If Lauri were to be traded today he would return 2-4 1sts and at least 1 young player with potential.

I've always liked Zach. Not sure what dragging him into this convo does.

If you think Lauri isn't at least 3rd team all-NBA caliber, then show me the numbers that back that up, because all the numbers point to him being a top 15 player. Throw TS% out the window and pick a different advanced metric.

Oh, I think Lauri is great. Just thought 64% was a very arbitrary number, wonder where that comes from. I support Zach too, this is not to knock down Zach, but lift up Lavine, lol. Lot of guys think he's useless, by most scoring metrics applied to player value, he should be a valuable player.

Pretty sure Zach's trade value being low is a result of his contract and injury, not his skill or ability to fit with a team.