Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread

[eyriq]

I’m not getting this whole idea that the problem is whether or not AB should “earn” Fultz’ minutes…the FO should not be limited by those choices. Fultz beating AB up & down the practice court doesn’t make him a good enough PG to lead this team. By the same token, AB, even as #6 draft choice, has no claim to the job.

DOESNT MATTER…NEITHER ONE IS GOOD ENOUGH

Why is our menu limited to these two choices? We should have upgraded, either marginally (Tyus or Monte), significantly (Brogdon), or tremendously (Murray). It’s malpractice by Weltman.

Fultz isn’t getting better. Black probably will…so keep him. Fultz should have been trade filler, but now he’s the best bad PG on the team, so play him because we’re a playoff team. He should be a buyout candidate, not a starting option…but they did nothing - and they’ll probably re-sign him because AB may not have earned the starting job by the time the playoff whooping is over.

I like this framing. Honestly though, I think the "marginal" upgrade wasn't worth the disruption, the "significant" upgrade was frowned on because it blocks AB, and the "tremendous" upgrade was rejected because it takes the ball out of the hands of Paolo and Franz.

[Residual-Heat]

Read on Twitter

WCJ, Franz and Paolo have all been more efficient in the last 10 games (since Franz came back). All three of them are shooting near 40% from 3.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/every-orlando-magic-player-stats-last-10-games

[ogmagicfan]

The FO was never going to dump Fultz when he’s on his tenth game of the season after missing the early part with knee tendinitis. They surely expect him to play better as he gets acclimated to NBA basketball.

Wasn't gonna be a dump, Tyus & Monte Morris are both upgrades & better fits.

The decision wouldnt be based off this season, itd be based off the past 5 seasons and that he isn't a good fit for our young core (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) & injury troubles.

If the cost of a trade was Fultz & 2 2nd, considering we typically move 2nds for cash considerations, that isn't too much to ask for

[Orl_Magic]

Don't worry guys we are going to draft REED SHEPPARD to be our PG of the future!

[pepe1991]

The FO was never going to dump Fultz when he’s on his tenth game of the season after missing the early part with knee tendinitis. They surely expect him to play better as he gets acclimated to NBA basketball.

But he is in his 7th year, hope of him "developing" anything is long gone, he turns 26 in few months, this is best you will ever get from him.

19 games into a season he is 9 ppg player on 3,7 apg and meh 51% TS and epic 2 threes made.

All of this points out he is already "backup pg " in terms of production. And being expiring, flipping him for better expiring contract ( or longer contract for player that is simply- better) would actually help team.

If they trully belive Fultz is starting level PG in NBA, than problem is way bigger.

[fendilim]

The FO was never going to dump Fultz when he’s on his tenth game of the season after missing the early part with knee tendinitis. They surely expect him to play better as he gets acclimated to NBA basketball.

Wasn't gonna be a dump, Tyus & Monte Morris are both upgrades & better fits.

The decision wouldnt be based off this season, itd be based off the past 5 seasons and that he isn't a good fit for our young core (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) & injury troubles.

If the cost of a trade was Fultz & 2 2nd, considering we typically move 2nds for cash considerations, that isn't too much to ask for

that’s not good asset management though.

We can easily sign Tyus in free agency this summer.

And 2nds rounders bundled together can really be valuable. 2nd rounders are valuable now with the new CBA, especially with only a few teams having control of the draft picks in the next several years, picks would be more valuable. And Tyus isn’t worth it considering that he is basically a rental and we may even lose him in free agency this summer.

2nd round picks are valuable. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a negative feeling about management trading it for cash. Lol.

Also, the Wizards were reportedly looking for a 1st for rental in Tyus. We couldn’t even get a 1st for Evan or Tross, in the last year of their contract, why should we be the one to overpay for Tyus?

[zaymon]

The FO was never going to dump Fultz when he’s on his tenth game of the season after missing the early part with knee tendinitis. They surely expect him to play better as he gets acclimated to NBA basketball.

Wasn't gonna be a dump, Tyus & Monte Morris are both upgrades & better fits.

The decision wouldnt be based off this season, itd be based off the past 5 seasons and that he isn't a good fit for our young core (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) & injury troubles.

If the cost of a trade was Fultz & 2 2nd, considering we typically move 2nds for cash considerations, that isn't too much to ask for

that’s not good asset management though.

We can easily sign Tyus in free agency this summer.

And 2nds rounders bundled together can really be valuable. 2nd rounders are valuable now with the new CBA, especially with only a few teams having control of the draft picks in the next several years, picks would be more valuable. And Tyus isn’t worth it considering that he is basically a rental and we may even lose him in free agency this summer.

2nd round picks are valuable. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a negative feeling about management trading it for cash. Lol.

Also, the Wizards were reportedly looking for a 1st for rental in Tyus. We couldn’t even get a 1st for Evan or Tross, in the last year of their contract, why should we be the one to overpay for Tyus?

I think your and Soul's assesments are the most grounded.
What is our goal this season ? Most would agree play ins are minimal goal and reaching 5-6th seed is maximum goal.
Do we need to use assets to reach play ins? We have 7.5 games on Nets with easy schedule, we dont have to upgrade.

Chasing 6th seed is real possibility and i agree we could do more to improve our chances. Cheapest upgrade ? Tyus Jones whose asking praise went from 1st to multiple 2nds. Personally i think its too much for expiring bench player. We would also spoil the market for the upcoming offseason which could have even more negative consequences.

Do making 6th seed matter for our long term success ? Propably not. Getting Jones would make it easier, but do we want to make it easier for Franz and Paolo getting quick fixes who wont be in our finishing lineups from next season onward? Its hard to tell becouse right now both guys need to be very crafty to get to the rim which could be great experience going forward. Counter argument is that they dont learn the right reads with that bad of a spacing and also that making top 6 this year would possibly give them more games to play in the post season.
I think if Franz and Paolo are ok with it, its not a bad thing that they play in much harder conditions.
Another point is that it will be much easier get rid of Fultz, Anthony etc if they get beaten badly in the play in/playoffs.

Last argument is preserving assets until you are ready to really compete. I dont think we could fight for a championship this season unless we got Curry plus other star. GSW are propably making a mistake not trading him but thats their decision.

[p0peye]

I’m not getting this whole idea that the problem is whether or not AB should “earn” Fultz’ minutes…the FO should not be limited by those choices. Fultz beating AB up & down the practice court doesn’t make him a good enough PG to lead this team. By the same token, AB, even as #6 draft choice, has no claim to the job.

DOESNT MATTER…NEITHER ONE IS GOOD ENOUGH

Why is our menu limited to these two choices? We should have upgraded, either marginally (Tyus or Monte), significantly (Brogdon), or tremendously (Murray). It’s malpractice by Weltman.

Fultz isn’t getting better. Black probably will…so keep him. Fultz should have been trade filler, but now he’s the best bad PG on the team, so play him because we’re a playoff team. He should be a buyout candidate, not a starting option…but they did nothing - and they’ll probably re-sign him because AB may not have earned the starting job by the time the playoff whooping is over.

Excellent take. +1000

[SOUL]

Looking through a lot of stats recently, it's crazy how "good" the offense and pace of the league is now. Our current offensive rating as a team is better than any of our Dwight teams, and only below '94 team, but tied with the '95 team who had the best Magic record ever.

And this year, our offense is pretty ****.

[p0peye]

Looking through a lot of stats recently, it's crazy how "good" the offense and pace of the league is now. Our current offensive rating as a team is better than any of our Dwight teams, and only below '94 team, but tied with the '95 team who had the best Magic record ever.

And this year, our offense is pretty ****.

The Magic's staff parking lot.

[fendilim]

Wasn't gonna be a dump, Tyus & Monte Morris are both upgrades & better fits.

The decision wouldnt be based off this season, itd be based off the past 5 seasons and that he isn't a good fit for our young core (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) & injury troubles.

If the cost of a trade was Fultz & 2 2nd, considering we typically move 2nds for cash considerations, that isn't too much to ask for

that’s not good asset management though.

We can easily sign Tyus in free agency this summer.

And 2nds rounders bundled together can really be valuable. 2nd rounders are valuable now with the new CBA, especially with only a few teams having control of the draft picks in the next several years, picks would be more valuable. And Tyus isn’t worth it considering that he is basically a rental and we may even lose him in free agency this summer.

2nd round picks are valuable. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a negative feeling about management trading it for cash. Lol.

Also, the Wizards were reportedly looking for a 1st for rental in Tyus. We couldn’t even get a 1st for Evan or Tross, in the last year of their contract, why should we be the one to overpay for Tyus?

I think your and Soul's assesments are the most grounded.
What is our goal this season ? Most would agree play ins are minimal goal and reaching 5-6th seed is maximum goal.
Do we need to use assets to reach play ins? We have 7.5 games on Nets with easy schedule, we dont have to upgrade.

Chasing 6th seed is real possibility and i agree we could do more to improve our chances. Cheapest upgrade ? Tyus Jones whose asking praise went from 1st to multiple 2nds. Personally i think its too much for expiring bench player. We would also spoil the market for the upcoming offseason which could have even more negative consequences.

Do making 6th seed matter for our long term success ? Propably not. Getting Jones would make it easier, but do we want to make it easier for Franz and Paolo getting quick fixes who wont be in our finishing lineups from next season onward? Its hard to tell becouse right now both guys need to be very crafty to get to the rim which could be great experience going forward. Counter argument is that they dont learn the right reads with that bad of a spacing and also that making top 6 this year would possibly give them more games to play in the post season.
I think if Franz and Paolo are ok with it, its not a bad thing that they play in much harder conditions.
Another point is that it will be much easier get rid of Fultz, Anthony etc if they get beaten badly in the play in/playoffs.

Last argument is preserving assets until you are ready to really compete. I dont think we could fight for a championship this season unless we got Curry plus other star. GSW are propably making a mistake not trading him but thats their decision.

I mean, another thing you have to wonder is why open up the war chest when…

1) No one available will turn us into contender
2) we spent our 6th pick on a pg. yes he still has a lot to prove, but is tyus that good to bury our 6th pick? Dejounte isn’t even realistic because the asking price is high for murray. Reportedly, an All star or Austin reaves. Who is the equivalent to that in our roster? There’s only one allstar on our team right now…

[zaymon]

I mean, another thing you have to wonder is why open up the war chest when…

1) No one available will turn us into contender
2) we spent our 6th pick on a pg. yes he still has a lot to prove, but is tyus that good to bury our 6th pick? Dejounte isn’t even realistic because the asking price is high for murray. Reportedly, an All star or Austin reaves. Who is the equivalent to that in our roster? There’s only one allstar on our team right now…

Yes we can agree no one who was available would make us into contender this year. If Curry was available i could see a way, but he wasnt. Murray cant even make Atlanta a low seed so i dont agree he would improve us that much in the long term(in short term anyone outside Cole Anthony is upgrade).

I dont think this year matters that much for Black with regard to playing time. He has A LOT of skill work to do. Ball handling, shooting to start. We can lock him in a barn with a ball,food and trainer and open the door next season.

Jones doesnt make us contender this year and we can get him for free next year. Very important question is, do we think AB can start next year ? If yes we can go for Jones, if not the fit is more awkward.
AB/Suggs/Wagner/Banchero/WCJ?-------Jones/Howard/?Joe?/Isaac/Wagner
I dont believe that will happen, not enough improvement seeing slow and steady AB development path.

Trade/Suggs/Wagner/Banchero/Trade------Jones/Howard/Trade/Isaac/Wagner
I think thats the most realistic outcome. Maybe Suggs coming from the bench could happen.

Option with Jones starting is very underwhelming.

[Furinkazan]

apologysts on a mission

[zaymon]

apologysts on a mission

Its a worthy mission, you can join us. Much more intelectually engaging than screaming. Fire Weltpark ! Shame, treason, laziness!

[fendilim]

apologysts on a mission

Its not that, doing a trade just for the sake of making a trade is plain stupidity.

[tiderulz]

that’s not good asset management though.

We can easily sign Tyus in free agency this summer.

And 2nds rounders bundled together can really be valuable. 2nd rounders are valuable now with the new CBA, especially with only a few teams having control of the draft picks in the next several years, picks would be more valuable. And Tyus isn’t worth it considering that he is basically a rental and we may even lose him in free agency this summer.

2nd round picks are valuable. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have a negative feeling about management trading it for cash. Lol.

Also, the Wizards were reportedly looking for a 1st for rental in Tyus. We couldn’t even get a 1st for Evan or Tross, in the last year of their contract, why should we be the one to overpay for Tyus?

I think your and Soul's assesments are the most grounded.
What is our goal this season ? Most would agree play ins are minimal goal and reaching 5-6th seed is maximum goal.
Do we need to use assets to reach play ins? We have 7.5 games on Nets with easy schedule, we dont have to upgrade.

Chasing 6th seed is real possibility and i agree we could do more to improve our chances. Cheapest upgrade ? Tyus Jones whose asking praise went from 1st to multiple 2nds. Personally i think its too much for expiring bench player. We would also spoil the market for the upcoming offseason which could have even more negative consequences.

Do making 6th seed matter for our long term success ? Propably not. Getting Jones would make it easier, but do we want to make it easier for Franz and Paolo getting quick fixes who wont be in our finishing lineups from next season onward? Its hard to tell becouse right now both guys need to be very crafty to get to the rim which could be great experience going forward. Counter argument is that they dont learn the right reads with that bad of a spacing and also that making top 6 this year would possibly give them more games to play in the post season.
I think if Franz and Paolo are ok with it, its not a bad thing that they play in much harder conditions.
Another point is that it will be much easier get rid of Fultz, Anthony etc if they get beaten badly in the play in/playoffs.

Last argument is preserving assets until you are ready to really compete. I dont think we could fight for a championship this season unless we got Curry plus other star. GSW are propably making a mistake not trading him but thats their decision.

I mean, another thing you have to wonder is why open up the war chest when…

1) No one available will turn us into contender
2) we spent our 6th pick on a pg. yes he still has a lot to prove, but is tyus that good to bury our 6th pick? Dejounte isn’t even realistic because the asking price is high for murray. Reportedly, an All star or Austin reaves. Who is the equivalent to that in our roster? There’s only one allstar on our team right now…

to make a run this year, yes.

[MIPQ]

i don't think the team has shown they can "easily" sign a somewhat coveted free agent yet, as appealing as we may think the magic are looking going forward.

[fendilim]

I think your and Soul's assesments are the most grounded.
What is our goal this season ? Most would agree play ins are minimal goal and reaching 5-6th seed is maximum goal.
Do we need to use assets to reach play ins? We have 7.5 games on Nets with easy schedule, we dont have to upgrade.

Chasing 6th seed is real possibility and i agree we could do more to improve our chances. Cheapest upgrade ? Tyus Jones whose asking praise went from 1st to multiple 2nds. Personally i think its too much for expiring bench player. We would also spoil the market for the upcoming offseason which could have even more negative consequences.

Do making 6th seed matter for our long term success ? Propably not. Getting Jones would make it easier, but do we want to make it easier for Franz and Paolo getting quick fixes who wont be in our finishing lineups from next season onward? Its hard to tell becouse right now both guys need to be very crafty to get to the rim which could be great experience going forward. Counter argument is that they dont learn the right reads with that bad of a spacing and also that making top 6 this year would possibly give them more games to play in the post season.
I think if Franz and Paolo are ok with it, its not a bad thing that they play in much harder conditions.
Another point is that it will be much easier get rid of Fultz, Anthony etc if they get beaten badly in the play in/playoffs.

Last argument is preserving assets until you are ready to really compete. I dont think we could fight for a championship this season unless we got Curry plus other star. GSW are propably making a mistake not trading him but thats their decision.

I mean, another thing you have to wonder is why open up the war chest when…

1) No one available will turn us into contender
2) we spent our 6th pick on a pg. yes he still has a lot to prove, but is tyus that good to bury our 6th pick? Dejounte isn’t even realistic because the asking price is high for murray. Reportedly, an All star or Austin reaves. Who is the equivalent to that in our roster? There’s only one allstar on our team right now…

to make a run this year, yes.

A run for what?

[fendilim]

i don't think the team has shown they can "easily" sign a somewhat coveted free agent yet, as appealing as we may think the magic are looking going forward.

Which makes it even worse to trade for a rental because there’s no guarantee he re-signs

[Skybox]

apologysts on a mission

Its not that, doing a trade just for the sake of making a trade is plain stupidity.

Right. Because trades = bad trades.

What's with all of the polar takes...who's screaming?

sounds like American Politics at it's best
...you're either a liberal like me or you're a war-mongering racist orange-skinned fascist
...you're either a conservative like me or you're a hippie, baby-killing, commie who wants welfare checks for illegal immigrant rapists

LET"S NOT take this (or any thread) into politics, but you can see the extremism anytime it comes up, kind of like any thoughtful analysis of the FO (or Fultz or...) escalates quickly.