NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[Wigginstime]

Nuggets are pretty beat up right now. I could see Denver going on cruise control for the next month allowing someone else to steal the MVP.

Effectively Denver did the same thing last season, the difference being they had a 7 game lead on 1st place last season. Now they are sitting in 4th. Then again as defending champions they may have the confidence to accept a 4th seed and rest regardless for the last 6 weeks of the season.

[jimmybones]

Nuggets were 0% on uncontested 3's in the first half.

Bucks defense did not look any better than at any other point in the season. Denver was just injured and tired.

Just say you don't watch the Bucks, it's fine man

Can say the same about Denver. They've gotten blown out by 30 a lot recently, they lost by 30 to the Kings Friday night. I don't think blowing out Denver, at this point in the season, is any indication of anything, for any team, not just you guys. Because they have sucked for a quite a good portion of the season

I'm not beating my chest that the Bucks beat Denver while Denver was not playing their best basketball. I'm responding to your comment about the Bucks defense not looking any better than it has been and for us Bucks nerds that watch every game, the defense is night and day different than it was under Griffin and the eye test and the data are showing it (6th in DRTG since Doc/Joerger).

Anyways, Jokic is the clear MVP in my eyes but Giannis is very much in that next tier conversation with Luka and SGA.

[iggymcfrack]

Nuggets are pretty beat up right now. I could see Denver going on cruise control for the next month allowing someone else to steal the MVP.

Effectively Denver did the same thing last season, the difference being they had a 7 game lead on 1st place last season. Now they are sitting in 4th. Then again as defending champions they may have the confidence to accept a 4th seed and rest regardless for the last 6 weeks of the season.

As you say, the Nuggets pretty much had the 1 seed locked up when they "went on cruise control" last year. Games 74 and 75, Jokic showed out against Milwaukee and Philly with 31/6/11 and 25/17/12 to put the Nuggets at 51-24. Jokic missed 5 of the last 7 from there and they finished 2-5 which was still good enough to get the 1 seed in the West by 2 games. This year, it's a completely different ball game. There are 4 teams within 1.5 games of the 1 seed and Denver only has a 5 game lead on the 8th place Mavericks. Winning games is going to be absolutely crucial down the stretch with a very wide range of seeding outcomes possible. I don't see any likelihood at all that they'll slow down before at least the last 2 or 3 games of the season.

[iggymcfrack]

Close race between Jokic and SGA

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's funny how everyone's always like "the media doesn't pay attention to plus/minus, the media doesn't pay attention to advanced stats" like it's 2008 or something, but then when it comes time for the media to actually vote, the 2 guys who dominate the advanced stats get 93/100 first place votes with only a few outlier first place votes for Luka, Giannis, Brunson, and Edwards.

[Bob8]

Close race between Jokic and SGA

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's funny how everyone's always like "the media doesn't pay attention to plus/minus, the media doesn't pay attention to advanced stats" like it's 2008 or something, but then when it comes time for the media to actually vote, the 2 guys who dominate the advanced stats get 93/100 first place votes with only a few outlier first place votes for Luka, Giannis, Brunson, and Edwards.

I don't believe they look at any kind of stats much. They just look at standings and choose the biggest stars with good season from the first teams. You can bet that Luka would get many more votes, if Mavs were 2nd seed, with the same or worse stats.

Just imagine how would 3 All Nba teams looked, if +/- was the criteria? You might have 5 Celtics and 3 Thunder players there.

[Dutchball97]

Close race between Jokic and SGA

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's funny how everyone's always like "the media doesn't pay attention to plus/minus, the media doesn't pay attention to advanced stats" like it's 2008 or something, but then when it comes time for the media to actually vote, the 2 guys who dominate the advanced stats get 93/100 first place votes with only a few outlier first place votes for Luka, Giannis, Brunson, and Edwards.

What advanced stats though? Not saying SGA and Jokic aren't having dominant seasons in just about every stat but Giannis is 3rd in EPM (2nd in wins added) and 2nd in LEBRON (1st in wins added). SGA and Jokic might dominate winshares and VORP but that's not the entire story. Luka is right up there with them as well, athough I'd argue a pretty clear 4th behind a more fluid top 3.

[iggymcfrack]

Close race between Jokic and SGA

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's funny how everyone's always like "the media doesn't pay attention to plus/minus, the media doesn't pay attention to advanced stats" like it's 2008 or something, but then when it comes time for the media to actually vote, the 2 guys who dominate the advanced stats get 93/100 first place votes with only a few outlier first place votes for Luka, Giannis, Brunson, and Edwards.

What advanced stats though? Not saying SGA and Jokic aren't having dominant seasons in just about every stat but Giannis is 3rd in EPM (2nd in wins added) and 2nd in LEBRON (1st in wins added). SGA and Jokic might dominate winshares and VORP but that's not the entire story. Luka is right up there with them as well, athough I'd argue a pretty clear 4th behind a more fluid top 3.

If you were to take a cumulative look at the top advanced stats, Jokic and SGA are pretty clearly the top 2 and Giannis is pretty clearly 3rd. That’s exactly how the voting went down.

[iggymcfrack]

Close race between Jokic and SGA

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's funny how everyone's always like "the media doesn't pay attention to plus/minus, the media doesn't pay attention to advanced stats" like it's 2008 or something, but then when it comes time for the media to actually vote, the 2 guys who dominate the advanced stats get 93/100 first place votes with only a few outlier first place votes for Luka, Giannis, Brunson, and Edwards.

I don't believe they look at any kind of stats much. They just look at standings and choose the biggest stars with good season from the first teams. You can bet that Luka would get many more votes, if Mavs were 2nd seed, with the same or worse stats.

Just imagine how would 3 All Nba teams looked, if +/- was the criteria? You might have 5 Celtics and 3 Thunder players there.

The Bucks have basically an identical record to the Nuggets. Why does Giannis have 2 first place votes and Jokić have 69 other than Jokić having better stats? The Celtics have the best record in the league. Why does Tatum have zero first place votes other than the stats? Of course reporters and commentators pay attention to this stuff. It’s in their job description to be informed.

[Chessboxer]

I really believe the voting criteria his been skewed too far into statistical dominance. It used to be more equally weighted between team record and statistical excellence. If the standings remain the way they are, are we really going to give Jokic a 3rd MVP as a 4th seed? SGA's team didn't even make the playoffs last year and now he has his team 2nd in the conference a game behind the 1st seed. Like, that's almost unheard of. Under the previous voting criteria SGA would have been leading in a landslide actually.

Jokic has never had a top 2 seed in his MVP seasons and he's about to win his 3rd. I guess its partly because many people thought he should have won last year, which I understand, but it shouldn't be at the detriment of other deserving players leading their teams to better records in my opinion( if the standings remain as they are). Besides isn't the point of an MVP to lead your team to win games?

Jokic will likely win again, however if its as a 4th seed I really think the fans and media need to collectively re evaluate the way MVP voting is done.

[Ron Swanson]

More than halfway through the season and it's still SGA for me. Has absolutely nothing to do with him being the shiny new toy. He's legitimately out-performing Jokic in a number of metrics. Advanced, box composite, lineup data, you name it. I'm honestly struggling to see why he shouldn't be the clear front-runner, and it'll be sad if he keeps this up but ends up losing it because voters are still guilty about not giving Jokic #3 last season.

[Oscar9992]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Bob8]

More than halfway through the season and it's still SGA for me. Has absolutely nothing to do with him being the shiny new toy. He's legitimately out-performing Jokic in a number of metrics. Advanced, box composite, lineup data, you name it. I'm honestly struggling to see why he shouldn't be the clear front-runner, and it'll be sad if he keeps this up but ends up losing it because voters are still guilty about not giving Jokic #3 last season.

Because Jokic is, unlike SGA, Denver's whole system, he's doing everything. His numbers could be even better, but he simply doesn't cares about his stats. You don't need any kind of stats to understand that he's the best player in the league.

You will see the difference in playoffs.

[Woodsanity]

Nuggets only have 3 players with positive bpm....

[iggymcfrack]

I really believe the voting criteria his been skewed too far into statistical dominance. It used to be more equally weighted between team record and statistical excellence. If the standings remain the way they are, are we really going to give Jokic a 3rd MVP as a 4th seed? SGA's team didn't even make the playoffs last year and now he has his team 2nd in the conference a game behind the 1st seed. Like, that's almost unheard of. Under the previous voting criteria SGA would have been leading in a landslide actually.

Jokic has never had a top 2 seed in his MVP seasons and he's about to win his 3rd. I guess its partly because many people thought he should have won last year, which I understand, but it shouldn't be at the detriment of other deserving players leading their teams to better records in my opinion( if the standings remain as they are). Besides isn't the point of an MVP to lead your team to win games?

Jokic will likely win again, however if its as a 4th seed I really think the fans and media need to collectively re evaluate the way MVP voting is done.

Bruh. The Nuggets are literally half a game behind the Thunder. That’s really what you want people voting on? 36-17 vs. 36-18? And that’s despite having a point differential of -8.3 in Joker’s bench minutes whereas the Thunder are -1.1 in Shai’s bench minutes.

And other than Shai, pray tell who are these other deserving players leading their teams to better records? The Bucks are ever so slightly behind the Nuggets in the standings. Please tell me you’re not saying Tatum should be ahead of Joker.

[dygaction]

Close race between Jokic and SGA

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's funny how everyone's always like "the media doesn't pay attention to plus/minus, the media doesn't pay attention to advanced stats" like it's 2008 or something, but then when it comes time for the media to actually vote, the 2 guys who dominate the advanced stats get 93/100 first place votes with only a few outlier first place votes for Luka, Giannis, Brunson, and Edwards.

It's funny how everyone is confusing not knowing that plus/minus is just another advanced stats but treat them like equal.

[Ron Swanson]

More than halfway through the season and it's still SGA for me. Has absolutely nothing to do with him being the shiny new toy. He's legitimately out-performing Jokic in a number of metrics. Advanced, box composite, lineup data, you name it. I'm honestly struggling to see why he shouldn't be the clear front-runner, and it'll be sad if he keeps this up but ends up losing it because voters are still guilty about not giving Jokic #3 last season.

Because Jokic is, unlike SGA, Denver's whole system, he's doing everything. His numbers could be even better, but he simply doesn't cares about his stats. You don't need any kind of stats to understand that he's the best player in the league.

You will see the difference in playoffs.

Would imagine that everyone is kind of sick of this excuse at this point. As if Jokic is the only superstar in the league that coasts in the regular season and "doesn't care about stats"....

[dygaction]

I really believe the voting criteria his been skewed too far into statistical dominance. It used to be more equally weighted between team record and statistical excellence. If the standings remain the way they are, are we really going to give Jokic a 3rd MVP as a 4th seed? SGA's team didn't even make the playoffs last year and now he has his team 2nd in the conference a game behind the 1st seed. Like, that's almost unheard of. Under the previous voting criteria SGA would have been leading in a landslide actually.

Jokic has never had a top 2 seed in his MVP seasons and he's about to win his 3rd. I guess its partly because many people thought he should have won last year, which I understand, but it shouldn't be at the detriment of other deserving players leading their teams to better records in my opinion( if the standings remain as they are). Besides isn't the point of an MVP to lead your team to win games?

Jokic will likely win again, however if its as a 4th seed I really think the fans and media need to collectively re evaluate the way MVP voting is done.

if the 4th seed is separated from the 2nd by 0.5 games, I really don't care that much. The same if #8 and #1 if they are separated by 2 games. They are within statistical error for a long season

[dygaction]

Nuggets only have 3 players with positive bpm....

Without context, is this to say Jokic has less help or not making his teammates better?

[dygaction]

More than halfway through the season and it's still SGA for me. Has absolutely nothing to do with him being the shiny new toy. He's legitimately out-performing Jokic in a number of metrics. Advanced, box composite, lineup data, you name it. I'm honestly struggling to see why he shouldn't be the clear front-runner, and it'll be sad if he keeps this up but ends up losing it because voters are still guilty about not giving Jokic #3 last season.

Because Jokic is, unlike SGA, Denver's whole system, he's doing everything. His numbers could be even better, but he simply doesn't cares about his stats. You don't need any kind of stats to understand that he's the best player in the league.

You will see the difference in playoffs.

Would imagine that everyone is kind of sick of this excuse at this point. As if Jokic is the only superstar in the league that coasts in the regular season and "doesn't care about stats"....

agreed here. Cannot reward someone for cruise control, not care about something, injury concern, load management... if you are conditioning team for playoffs, there are rings and finals MPV to celebrate, leave the MVP to someone who works night in and night out. However, i don't think Jokic has been on cruise control or will given the seeding and competition in the west.

[Bob8]

More than halfway through the season and it's still SGA for me. Has absolutely nothing to do with him being the shiny new toy. He's legitimately out-performing Jokic in a number of metrics. Advanced, box composite, lineup data, you name it. I'm honestly struggling to see why he shouldn't be the clear front-runner, and it'll be sad if he keeps this up but ends up losing it because voters are still guilty about not giving Jokic #3 last season.

Because Jokic is, unlike SGA, Denver's whole system, he's doing everything. His numbers could be even better, but he simply doesn't cares about his stats. You don't need any kind of stats to understand that he's the best player in the league.

You will see the difference in playoffs.

Would imagine that everyone is kind of sick of this excuse at this point. As if Jokic is the only superstar in the league that coasts in the regular season and "doesn't care about stats"....

I believe that MVP should be the best basketball player and not someone, who can only efficiently score. Last year they gifted MVP to Embiid and we have seen in playoffs, who is the real MVP. It will be the same thing, if they give it to SGA. I believe that Jokic doesn't even care much about awards, so it will be ok with him. But they really are not on the same level as basketball players. No stat can change that.