I hate it, but Weaver absolutely has to be fired.

[bstein14]

Some of Weavers "bad move" make a little more sense when you understand how he operates. Weaver typically approaches problems with a specific agenda or target he is going after, and as long as he accomplishes his mission he isn't too concerned with quibbling over pennies. And by that I mean the distinction between say.... a late 1st and a 2nd rounder or two.

If his objective is "get player X" or "get rid of player X", then he's going to expedite the process. Kinda like going a little over asking price when buying a house. When you *really* want it, you make that aggressive bid. That's his mindset.

I think probably there are times when his "mission" IS to get value, but so far it seems like he's prioritized cap flexibility.

At this point we have essentially trimmed all the fat. Wiseman is still a lil sus, but outside of that we've cleaned house. So we'll see. I'm definitely NOT a Weaver supporter at this point, but I remain somewhat optimistic about our future. I still question the fit, but we don't need to solve every problem at once.

We just want to see progress. We deserve better than 8 wins in year 4.

Considering that after 4 years of rebuilding, enough with the dumb restore thing, this is a rebuild, let's call apples apples. After 4 years we are coming from a 17 wins season, into a 8 wins in 51 games season so far, and we have a deficit in draft capital, I think it's safe to say it's an idiotic approach.

Just like the way he cleaned house when he took over was also idiotic.

We are an assets poor rebuilding team, because our assets have been missmanaged, not because we didn't have a head start, it's not year 2, it's year 4 of the rebuild.

#7 and #19 picks down the drain.
#16 cost us an absurd price and we are still paying it.
Probably a dozen or so 2nd round picks donated.
Cap space donated with little to no assets in return.
Stretch and waive players one of which we are still paying.

If you want to see what a properly run rebuild looks like, go check OKC assets. Yes they had PG to start the rebuild, but look at the assets they collect other than PG.

Some people just refuse to see reality because it's painful (I am not talking about you despiting quoting you Cowology), but it is what it is. Weaver is an absolute joke, and the way he has been running this franchise is criminal. Since day 1.

I'm far from a Weaver fan, but I wouldn't say he's been horrible. He's been sub par for sure. Horrible would have been to not be patient and to sign FA's to big overpaid deals and mortgage multiple future first round picks in win now moves. We've seen GMs get the job and go that route including the Bulls GM taking over in 2020 and then trading away multiple firsts to build a roster that got just one playoff appearance a won only a single playoff game. Chicago is much worse than us and they didn't trade Caruso or DeMar, have Lonzo still eating a ton of cap, have an overpaid "star" in LaVine, etc... There are certainly some GMs who have been much worse.

Ultimately, no matter who Weaver adds this summer, a lot of his grade as a GM (looking back 10 years from now) will fall on just what Ivey, Cade, Ausar, Sasser, and Duren develop into. Do we have two all-stars and a defensive team player in that group? If so that helps a ton.

Weaver has been given a much longer leash than what many GMs would get and he has been using every inch of it.

[Cowology]

Some of Weavers "bad move" make a little more sense when you understand how he operates. Weaver typically approaches problems with a specific agenda or target he is going after, and as long as he accomplishes his mission he isn't too concerned with quibbling over pennies. And by that I mean the distinction between say.... a late 1st and a 2nd rounder or two.

If his objective is "get player X" or "get rid of player X", then he's going to expedite the process. Kinda like going a little over asking price when buying a house. When you *really* want it, you make that aggressive bid. That's his mindset.

I think probably there are times when his "mission" IS to get value, but so far it seems like he's prioritized cap flexibility.

At this point we have essentially trimmed all the fat. Wiseman is still a lil sus, but outside of that we've cleaned house. So we'll see. I'm definitely NOT a Weaver supporter at this point, but I remain somewhat optimistic about our future. I still question the fit, but we don't need to solve every problem at once.

We just want to see progress. We deserve better than 8 wins in year 4.

Considering that after 4 years of rebuilding, enough with the dumb restore thing, this is a rebuild, let's call apples apples. After 4 years we are coming from a 17 wins season, into a 8 wins in 51 games season so far, and we have a deficit in draft capital, I think it's safe to say it's an idiotic approach.

Just like the way he cleaned house when he took over was also idiotic.

We are an assets poor rebuilding team, because our assets have been missmanaged, not because we didn't have a head start, it's not year 2, it's year 4 of the rebuild.

#7 and #19 picks down the drain.
#16 cost us an absurd price and we are still paying it.
Probably a dozen or so 2nd round picks donated.
Cap space donated with little to no assets in return.
Stretch and waive players one of which we are still paying.

If you want to see what a properly run rebuild looks like, go check OKC assets. Yes they had PG to start the rebuild, but look at the assets they collect other than PG.

Some people just refuse to see reality because it's painful (I am not talking about you despiting quoting you Cowology), but it is what it is. Weaver is an absolute joke, and the way he has been running this franchise is criminal. Since day 1.

Makes sense, but I also think it's OK for people to focus on the positive and attempt to remain hopeful. You wanna call an apple an apple, go right ahead. But if other people wanna call it a fruit salad that is probably OK too. *shrug*

I know there are times I deliberately cut through some of the negativity on this board in order to try and hi-lite the good or bring a little positivity to the board, but it's practically a reflex for me. At my workplace I would immediately stomp out any negativity. It's a team killer and it only takes 1 bad apple.

In a broader sense, I think the board is better when there is more balance. There is a higher level of engagement and the quality of discussion tends to rise. When everybody is all doom & gloom, the board get's real pissy and frankly it makes it uninviting for a lot of people. From a business standpoint it drives away traffic and even long-time posters get tired of reading the same thing over and over.

Sooo... Ima be over here pointing out the good and focusing on the positive stuff. Cuz that other stuff? It's just making you miserable. Identify it. Call it out. But then let it go. Life is too short. Things will be OK.

[DetroitSho]

Some of Weavers "bad move" make a little more sense when you understand how he operates. Weaver typically approaches problems with a specific agenda or target he is going after, and as long as he accomplishes his mission he isn't too concerned with quibbling over pennies. And by that I mean the distinction between say.... a late 1st and a 2nd rounder or two.

If his objective is "get player X" or "get rid of player X", then he's going to expedite the process. Kinda like going a little over asking price when buying a house. When you *really* want it, you make that aggressive bid. That's his mindset.

I think probably there are times when his "mission" IS to get value, but so far it seems like he's prioritized cap flexibility.

At this point we have essentially trimmed all the fat. Wiseman is still a lil sus, but outside of that we've cleaned house. So we'll see. I'm definitely NOT a Weaver supporter at this point, but I remain somewhat optimistic about our future. I still question the fit, but we don't need to solve every problem at once.

We just want to see progress. We deserve better than 8 wins in year 4.

Considering that after 4 years of rebuilding, enough with the dumb restore thing, this is a rebuild, let's call apples apples. After 4 years we are coming from a 17 wins season, into a 8 wins in 51 games season so far, and we have a deficit in draft capital, I think it's safe to say it's an idiotic approach.

Just like the way he cleaned house when he took over was also idiotic.

We are an assets poor rebuilding team, because our assets have been missmanaged, not because we didn't have a head start, it's not year 2, it's year 4 of the rebuild.

#7 and #19 picks down the drain.
#16 cost us an absurd price and we are still paying it.
Probably a dozen or so 2nd round picks donated.
Cap space donated with little to no assets in return.
Stretch and waive players one of which we are still paying.

If you want to see what a properly run rebuild looks like, go check OKC assets. Yes they had PG to start the rebuild, but look at the assets they collect other than PG.

Some people just refuse to see reality because it's painful (I am not talking about you despiting quoting you Cowology), but it is what it is. Weaver is an absolute joke, and the way he has been running this franchise is criminal. Since day 1.

Makes sense, but I also think it's OK for people to focus on the positive and attempt to remain hopeful. You wanna call an apple an apple, go right ahead. But if other people wanna call it a fruit salad that is probably OK too. *shrug*

I know there are times I deliberately cut through some of the negativity on this board in order to try and hi-lite the good or bring a little positivity to the board, but it's practically a reflex for me. At my workplace I would immediately stomp out any negativity. It's a team killer and it only takes 1 bad apple.

In a broader sense, I think the board is better when there is more balance. There is a higher level of engagement and the quality of discussion tends to rise. When everybody is all doom & gloom, the board get's real pissy and frankly it makes it uninviting for a lot of people. From a business standpoint it drives away traffic and even long-time posters get tired of reading the same thing over and over.

Sooo... Ima be over here pointing out the good and focusing on the positive stuff. Cuz that other stuff? It's just making you miserable. Identify it. Call it out. But then let it go. Life is too short. Things will be OK.

We bump heads like a mf but this right here is THEE post. 100% agree.

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[Kalamazoo317]

Weaver 100% should still be fired. I thought his moves at the trade deadline were fine, but it's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The main issue, which is that in year four of a rebuild he has an historically bad team, remains.

[Patrick27]

Weaver 100% should still be fired. I thought his moves at the trade deadline were fine, but it's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The main issue, which is that in year four of a rebuild he has an historically bad team, remains.

Let's say Weaver's fired, and Gores brings in someone to do things different. What would different look like?

Probably dumping some of our core, because the new guy wants to make his imprint on the team. Cade/Ivey/Duren/Thompson/Sasser are all Weaver guys, so at least 2-3 of them would be out the door.

Probably making a big, splashy move to show that he's sooo different than Weaver's slow pace of rearranging deck chairs, and pushing us up to a midlevel team as quickly as possible. You want Lavine? Or Dejounte Murray? New guy would be on the phone on day one.

Is that really the direction you want this to go?

Think I'm wrong? Tell me what you think the new guy would do to quickly impress Gores after a deep rebuild and several depressing seasons.

[Piston Pete]

Are you assuming Gores would have no say in who the next GM is?

Would he hire a guy who would dump parts of our core?

[Patrick27]

Are you assuming Gores would have no say in who the next GM is?

Would he hire a guy who would dump parts of our core?

Firing a guy, then replacing him always implies change. Otherwise, why pay someone to go away if they are going to keep steering the ship in the same direction?

You only change the GM when you want to substantially change the direction of the franchise. What new direction does Gores want to see?

I absolutely think Gores would have complete say on the new direction. He'd do what he did with Monty - throw an imprudent amount of money around to make something happen quickly. Gores is not a patient man, left to his own devices. We'd be doing Blake Griffin 2.0 as quickly as possible, because that's Gores' way of handling these things.

I happen to think that this is the wrong way to rebuild.

[Piston Pete]

Or firing a guy - Weaver in this case - could just imply that he’s not getting the job done

[Patrick27]

Or firing a guy - Weaver in this case - could just imply that he’s not getting the job done

What job? Be specific.

[SuperBad]

I think I just give him one more year, finish his contract. Whoever comes in is going to a shakeup, I think we just did a shakeup, the core is there and we got good younger complimentary players, I think we’re are going to just be getting better and better as a team for the next year, and of course at the next deadline we reevaluate.

[FloridaMan78]

He’s getting this off-season. And it’s going to be a huge one. And that’s putting it mildly.
My guess is he tries to trade the pick and spends the max on a guy.
I do wonder if Gores and Tellum will over rule his decision though. If he does, I don’t think Weaver will keep quiet about it.
No mater what, it’s gonna be crazy offseason.

[Spider156]

I need to straighten out some people’s perspective.

Why do second round picks matter to you guys? Second round picks are just cash. It’s capital to make trades. You can name all the second round picks he’s traded I can name you how he flipped second round picks to draft Sasser, that was impressive. Kid looks like a sixth man of the year candidate in the future. Where’s the love for that move? He just got 3 seconds and basically got fontecchio for free, where’s the love? Traded 2 seconds and got 3 not bad for asset movement.

I agree Bojan burks was mismanaged absolutely. That he admitted himself and I’m glad he made up for it because Grimes and fentecchio are solid players that fit our core for the future. Meaning those are our two free agents this summer!

Let me remind you guys

Cade, Ivey, Duren, Ausar, Sasser, Stewart, Top 5 pick, Free agent to sign this summer, grimes, fontecchio

Why do you guys want second round picks? Those players aren’t enough for you? I don’t get it. Why are you crying about second round picks when we literally don’t have enough space for them on the team.

Let’s say we don’t make play in next year and we get to draft again in 2025, are you guys crossing your fingers for a second round pick? It doesn’t make sense…why are you crying over spilled milk?

Totally agree. SRPs are pocket change. Sure there are a few great players that have been picked in the second round, both those are outliers.

Well part of my thinking also is I’ve seen Weaver literally sell the 30th pick and buy a second round pick. He sold the 30th pick to Houston so they can grab Porter I think his name was. That was the first time a first round pick was ever sold for cash and it was like 6m. He’s bought a second round pick and I think that was Procida or Kaprovica one of them. Point is, second round picks are just cash, they’re added to sway trades. Truth is Weaver has shown some creativity using second round picks the way he has.

[Mr Peanut]

I need to straighten out some people’s perspective.

Why do second round picks matter to you guys? Second round picks are just cash. It’s capital to make trades. You can name all the second round picks he’s traded I can name you how he flipped second round picks to draft Sasser, that was impressive. Kid looks like a sixth man of the year candidate in the future. Where’s the love for that move? He just got 3 seconds and basically got fontecchio for free, where’s the love? Traded 2 seconds and got 3 not bad for asset movement.

I agree Bojan burks was mismanaged absolutely. That he admitted himself and I’m glad he made up for it because Grimes and fentecchio are solid players that fit our core for the future. Meaning those are our two free agents this summer!

Let me remind you guys

Cade, Ivey, Duren, Ausar, Sasser, Stewart, Top 5 pick, Free agent to sign this summer, grimes, fontecchio

Why do you guys want second round picks? Those players aren’t enough for you? I don’t get it. Why are you crying about second round picks when we literally don’t have enough space for them on the team.

Let’s say we don’t make play in next year and we get to draft again in 2025, are you guys crossing your fingers for a second round pick? It doesn’t make sense…why are you crying over spilled milk?

Totally agree. SRPs are pocket change. Sure there are a few great players that have been picked in the second round, both those are outliers.

Well part of my thinking also is I’ve seen Weaver literally sell the 30th pick and buy a second round pick. He sold the 30th pick to Houston so they can grab Porter I think his name was. That was the first time a first round pick was ever sold for cash and it was like 6m. He’s bought a second round pick and I think that was Procida or Kaprovica one of them. Point is, second round picks are just cash, they’re added to sway trades. Truth is Weaver has shown some creativity using second round picks the way he has.

That was before Troy's time - was all done by Ed Stefanski. It was the 30th pick for 5M in cash and four second rounders, although from memory one of those second rounders was essentially a "fake" and then we used two of them to trade up to draft Deividas Sirvydis who of course was a massive bust and purely a favor to Arn Tellem's son who was Sirvydis's agent.

[7r5ur]

Totally agree. SRPs are pocket change. Sure there are a few great players that have been picked in the second round, both those are outliers.

Well part of my thinking also is I’ve seen Weaver literally sell the 30th pick and buy a second round pick. He sold the 30th pick to Houston so they can grab Porter I think his name was. That was the first time a first round pick was ever sold for cash and it was like 6m. He’s bought a second round pick and I think that was Procida or Kaprovica one of them. Point is, second round picks are just cash, they’re added to sway trades. Truth is Weaver has shown some creativity using second round picks the way he has.

That was before Troy's time - was all done by Ed Stefanski. It was the 30th pick for 5M in cash and four second rounders, although from memory one of those second rounders was essentially a "fake" and then we used two of them to trade up to draft Deividas Sirvydis who of course was a massive bust and purely a favor to Arn Tellem's son who was Sirvydis's agent.

The day I read the report in the news that Arn Tellem is no longer with the Pistons org will be a good day. True addition by subtraction. I have not heard of a single thing he's been involved in with this team that wasn't at least vaguely self serving. Too many times we've been involved with his son's relatively tiny client list (Gallo, Sirvydis, etc). Was he involved in the Buddy Boeheim nepotistic nonsense too?

[DetroitSho]

Well part of my thinking also is I’ve seen Weaver literally sell the 30th pick and buy a second round pick. He sold the 30th pick to Houston so they can grab Porter I think his name was. That was the first time a first round pick was ever sold for cash and it was like 6m. He’s bought a second round pick and I think that was Procida or Kaprovica one of them. Point is, second round picks are just cash, they’re added to sway trades. Truth is Weaver has shown some creativity using second round picks the way he has.

That was before Troy's time - was all done by Ed Stefanski. It was the 30th pick for 5M in cash and four second rounders, although from memory one of those second rounders was essentially a "fake" and then we used two of them to trade up to draft Deividas Sirvydis who of course was a massive bust and purely a favor to Arn Tellem's son who was Sirvydis's agent.

The day I read the report in the news that Arn Tellem is no longer with the Pistons org will be a good day. True addition by subtraction. I have not heard of a single thing he's been involved in with this team that wasn't at least vaguely self serving. Too many times we've been involved with his son's relatively tiny client list (Gallo, Sirvydis, etc). Was he involved in the Buddy Boeheim nepotistic nonsense too?

I thought this guy was going to give us good access to some of his former clients. But he does NOTHING for this organization, and his existence is a big problem.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[Spider156]

That was before Troy's time - was all done by Ed Stefanski. It was the 30th pick for 5M in cash and four second rounders, although from memory one of those second rounders was essentially a "fake" and then we used two of them to trade up to draft Deividas Sirvydis who of course was a massive bust and purely a favor to Arn Tellem's son who was Sirvydis's agent.

The day I read the report in the news that Arn Tellem is no longer with the Pistons org will be a good day. True addition by subtraction. I have not heard of a single thing he's been involved in with this team that wasn't at least vaguely self serving. Too many times we've been involved with his son's relatively tiny client list (Gallo, Sirvydis, etc). Was he involved in the Buddy Boeheim nepotistic nonsense too?

I thought this guy was going to give us good access to some of his former clients. But he does NOTHING for this organization, and his existence is a big problem.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

He got us Derrick Rose and that’s about it. He’s also moved the team downtown. He’s definitely self serving. In fact, I blame him before Weaver for our failure. He’s focused on making Gores money, not helping out the team win. He completely sacrificed 4 years just to tank and build a foundation that was never there and that had to go through his approval. He’s been horrible for us management wise.

[mattao313]

This team has to at the minimum make the play in next season for him to keep his job imo

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[buzzkilloton]

Troy Weaver traded Luke Kennard because he didnt want to pay him the 15mill per year he was going to get. He traded Kennard for Bey who we then traded for Wiseman instead of 5 2nd round picks.

Meanwhile Luke Kennard is one of the best 3pt shooters ITL making 15mill per year. He does miss games but man when hes the court hes still awesome. I'd surely rather pay him then pay guys Wiseman,Bagley,Joe Harris or whatever other scrubs Weaver has brought in.

[theBigLip]

Troy Weaver traded Luke Kennard because he didnt want to pay him the 15mill per year he was going to get. He traded Kennard for Bey who we then traded for Wiseman instead of 5 2nd round picks.

Meanwhile Luke Kennard is one of the best 3pt shooters ITL making 15mill per year. He does miss games but man when hes the court hes still awesome. I'd surely rather pay him then pay guys Wiseman,Bagley,Joe Harris or whatever other scrubs Weaver has brought in.

Lenard can’t play D. He is almost unplayable in the playoffs. And when Kennard was with us he was injured a lot.

So it is easy to complain after we see how things turned out. It’s much easier to decide what to do before you get to see the results. So if you’re GM of the Pistons, what do YOU do with the $60M+ of cap space this summer?

[buzzkilloton]

Troy Weaver traded Luke Kennard because he didnt want to pay him the 15mill per year he was going to get. He traded Kennard for Bey who we then traded for Wiseman instead of 5 2nd round picks.

Meanwhile Luke Kennard is one of the best 3pt shooters ITL making 15mill per year. He does miss games but man when hes the court hes still awesome. I'd surely rather pay him then pay guys Wiseman,Bagley,Joe Harris or whatever other scrubs Weaver has brought in.

Lenard can’t play D. He is almost unplayable in the playoffs. And when Kennard was with us he was injured a lot.

So it is easy to complain after we see how things turned out. It’s much easier to decide what to do before you get to see the results. So if you’re GM of the Pistons, what do YOU do with the $60M+ of cap space this summer?

Kennard played 15 games in the playoffs with the Clippers during their deep run. Also played over 20mins a game in the playoffs for Memphis. Lukes played plenty of playoff basketball since he left the Pistons. Hell he was on our last playoff team where he was one of our best players during the series putting up-33mins 15ppg 4reb 2apg on 60% 3pt shooting.

Luke is more valuable then Saddiq Bey who we traded him for. I'd sure as hell take Luke over Wiseman(hell Bey over Wiseman too) who we traded Bey. I could see the debate with the 5 2nd rounders being worth more but Weaver didnt want 5 2nds he wanted Wiseman.

One huge point of argument that was used for trading Luke was "at least we dont have to pay him". Well sure we didnt pay Luke 14mill per for 4 years instead we paid other duds like Bagley 3 year for 12.5mil per or picked up a guy like Joe Harris at 1 for 20mill or Wiseman 2 for 11mill per etc etc. Kennard misses time fairly often but at least when he plays he has a elite valuable trait which is shooting 3s as good as anyone ITL.

Now that were this many years in we can really look back and see Weavers moves for what they were. This is just another bad one added to a long list of moves that were bad. Sure its more of a small loss trade then big loss trade but when you keep making small losses those add up to big ones.