Pacers Pick Tracking (Update: #19 officially)

[Duffman100]

As I stated previously, Dragic cost us a FRP. This is the crux of the argument.

Don't get Dragic, don't need to trade away a FRP. Don't make a bad trade that puts you into the tax, don't need to trade away a FRP.

Dragic cost us a FRP.

That's the crux of a new argument that's now being created.

No, it's quite literally the same one, but made to be more accurate.

Thad didn't cost us a pick, Dragic did. Thad was needed to match salaries (IIRC).

So as I asked previously

Dragic didn't cost a FRP.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not Masai's fault.
And if it was, he didn't mean it.
And if he did, shut up about it already.

How is it any different in the end. The same defences are being made, the same goalposts etc. We lost a FRP, period.

We lost 13 picks in draft position. Period. That is the FACT of the trade.

[Scase]

That's the crux of a new argument that's now being created.

No, it's quite literally the same one, but made to be more accurate.

Thad didn't cost us a pick, Dragic did. Thad was needed to match salaries (IIRC).

So as I asked previously

Dragic didn't cost a FRP.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not Masai's fault.
And if it was, he didn't mean it.
And if he did, shut up about it already.

How is it any different in the end. The same defences are being made, the same goalposts etc. We lost a FRP, period.

We lost 13 picks in draft position. Period. That is the FACT of the trade.

And those 13 positions cost us....come on you can say it a First Round Draft Pick in exchange for a Second Round Draft Pick.

This is hilariously the exact point of his post, semantics and any excuse to defend the trade.

Gained : SRP, Thad Young
Lost : FRP, Goran Dragic

To quote you :

Why is it so controversial to just use the FACTS of the trade?

[YogurtProducer]

So the fact it was a 13-pick trade down is irrelevant
The fact SA drafted absolutely nothing with the pick they got is irrelevant

The only relevant part is a 1st rounder left our grasp and Thad came back from SA. Nothing else about the trade is relevant

All the trade has revealed is fans who don't understand how the cap or contracts work. No one wants to take the time to understand the cap ramifications of the 20th vs 33rd pick, nor how having Thad's bird rights allowed us to essentially create salary to use in future trades if we needed.

In the end, none of that ending up mattered but putting yourself in those situations to have options is valuable in itself.

Operating as an above-cap team is not rocket science, you don't need to give away assets in order to obtain dead money contracts - it's the easiest thing in the NBA.

If the Spurs hadn't traded Thad to Toronto, he would have been waived. Masai and the FO played themselves. Being so close to the luxury tax that they needed to jettison Dragic was a problem of their own creation.

Sure, but getting rid of a Dragic level contract matters as well. SA bought him out - they don't do that without some incentive to do so.

They likely did not expect Dragic to be such a POS about the trade and the situation he was being thrust into. I would guess when they first got him they saw him as the backup PG and as a guy they could retain longer term to be the vet guy who was essentially salary fodder for a future trade.

That did not work out, so they had to make a deal for a guy they could retain past that season or else the would lose that salary, and lose the flexibility to make future trades.

Argue whether or not that was worth it to put the team in a situation to have that flexibility sure - but ignoring the actual facts of the situation in bad faith is not the way to go about it.

[YogurtProducer]

No, it's quite literally the same one, but made to be more accurate.

Thad didn't cost us a pick, Dragic did. Thad was needed to match salaries (IIRC).

So as I asked previously



How is it any different in the end. The same defences are being made, the same goalposts etc. We lost a FRP, period.

We lost 13 picks in draft position. Period. That is the FACT of the trade.

And those 13 positions cost us....come on you can say it a First Round Draft Pick in exchange for a Second Round Draft Pick.

This is hilariously the exact point of his post, semantics and any excuse to defend the trade.

Gained : SRP, Thad Young
Lost : FRP, Goran Dragic

To quote you :

Why is it so controversial to just use the FACTS of the trade?

Wait, so we DID get back a Second Round pick in the trade and it was not a first round pick we traded for only Thad?

I am sorry, I am just so confused because for the past 18 months the second round pick has seemingly been ignored.

[Duffman100]

No, it's quite literally the same one, but made to be more accurate.

Thad didn't cost us a pick, Dragic did. Thad was needed to match salaries (IIRC).

So as I asked previously



How is it any different in the end. The same defences are being made, the same goalposts etc. We lost a FRP, period.

We lost 13 picks in draft position. Period. That is the FACT of the trade.

And those 13 positions cost us....come on you can say it a First Round Draft Pick in exchange for a Second Round Draft Pick.

This is hilariously the exact point of his post, semantics and any excuse to defend the trade.

Gained : SRP, Thad Young
Lost : FRP, Goran Dragic

To quote you :

Why is it so controversial to just use the FACTS of the trade?

Yes. Because when you say "It cost a 1st round pick, period.". It's an intentional omission of the 2nd round pick in order to try and make it worse.

Which is again, why we use the facts of the trade and put the entire trade in when disucssing it.

[Scase]

We lost 13 picks in draft position. Period. That is the FACT of the trade.

And those 13 positions cost us....come on you can say it a First Round Draft Pick in exchange for a Second Round Draft Pick.

This is hilariously the exact point of his post, semantics and any excuse to defend the trade.

Gained : SRP, Thad Young
Lost : FRP, Goran Dragic

To quote you :

Why is it so controversial to just use the FACTS of the trade?

Yes. Because when you say "It cost a 1st round pick, period.". It's an intentional omission of the 2nd round pick in order to try and make it worse.

Which is again, why we use the facts of the trade and put the entire trade in when disucssing it.

No, it is the literal cost of acquiring Thad and a SRP, a FRP and Dragic.

It was a trade, a barter, something where you need to give to get.

We gave up a FRP. After the trade was consummated, we no longer had a FRP. The Raptors objectively did not have a FRP in the 2022 draft.

Discussing every part of the trade results in not having a FRP anymore. We had it, then we didn't. Period.

[Duffman100]

And those 13 positions cost us....come on you can say it a First Round Draft Pick in exchange for a Second Round Draft Pick.

This is hilariously the exact point of his post, semantics and any excuse to defend the trade.

Gained : SRP, Thad Young
Lost : FRP, Goran Dragic

To quote you :

Yes. Because when you say "It cost a 1st round pick, period.". It's an intentional omission of the 2nd round pick in order to try and make it worse.

Which is again, why we use the facts of the trade and put the entire trade in when disucssing it.

No, it is the literal cost of acquiring Thad and a SRP, a FRP and Dragic.

It was a trade, a barter, something where you need to give to get.

We gave up a FRP. After the trade was consummated, we no longer had a FRP. The Raptors objectively did not have a FRP in the 2022 draft.

Discussing every part of the trade results in not having a FRP anymore. We had it, then we didn't. Period.

Okay, then you can isolate any part of any trade and highlight.

We spent a 2nd rounder on Marc Gasol and he helped us win the title. Period. What an amazing value deal, totally a legit argument to make.

[Scase]

Yes. Because when you say "It cost a 1st round pick, period.". It's an intentional omission of the 2nd round pick in order to try and make it worse.

Which is again, why we use the facts of the trade and put the entire trade in when disucssing it.

No, it is the literal cost of acquiring Thad and a SRP, a FRP and Dragic.

It was a trade, a barter, something where you need to give to get.

We gave up a FRP. After the trade was consummated, we no longer had a FRP. The Raptors objectively did not have a FRP in the 2022 draft.

Discussing every part of the trade results in not having a FRP anymore. We had it, then we didn't. Period.

Okay, then you can isolate any part of any trade and highlight.

We spent a 2nd rounder on Marc Gasol and he helped us win the title. Period. What an amazing value deal, totally a legit argument to make.

But that is not at all what I am saying.

I said the trade cost us a FRP. But more appropriately, Dragic cost us a FRP. It is extremely common place for people to say X cost Y, when you need to attach a positive asset to a negative one to move it.

This isn't new, stop pretending like it is, it is an extremely common way to talk about trades and their acquisition cost.

No matter how you slice it, the trade resulted in us sending out, or, costing us a FRP.

[Duffman100]

No, it is the literal cost of acquiring Thad and a SRP, a FRP and Dragic.

It was a trade, a barter, something where you need to give to get.

We gave up a FRP. After the trade was consummated, we no longer had a FRP. The Raptors objectively did not have a FRP in the 2022 draft.

Discussing every part of the trade results in not having a FRP anymore. We had it, then we didn't. Period.

Okay, then you can isolate any part of any trade and highlight.

We spent a 2nd rounder on Marc Gasol and he helped us win the title. Period. What an amazing value deal, totally a legit argument to make.

But that is not at all what I am saying.

I said the trade cost us a FRP. But more appropriately, Dragic cost us a FRP. It is extremely common place for people to say X cost Y, when you need to attach a positive asset to a negative one to move it.

This isn't new, stop pretending like it is, it is an extremely common way to talk about trades and their acquisition cost.

No matter how you slice it, the trade resulted in us sending out, or, costing us a FRP.

And no matter how you slice it, Marc Gasol cost us a 2nd rounder.

It's the same argument, how are you not seeing this? You are omitting other details of the trade to higlight a portion.

[YogurtProducer]

No, it is the literal cost of acquiring Thad and a SRP, a FRP and Dragic.

It was a trade, a barter, something where you need to give to get.

We gave up a FRP. After the trade was consummated, we no longer had a FRP. The Raptors objectively did not have a FRP in the 2022 draft.

Discussing every part of the trade results in not having a FRP anymore. We had it, then we didn't. Period.

Okay, then you can isolate any part of any trade and highlight.

We spent a 2nd rounder on Marc Gasol and he helped us win the title. Period. What an amazing value deal, totally a legit argument to make.

But that is not at all what I am saying.

I said the trade cost us a FRP. But more appropriately, Dragic cost us a FRP. It is extremely common place for people to say X cost Y, when you need to attach a positive asset to a negative one to move it.

This isn't new, stop pretending like it is, it is an extremely common way to talk about trades and their acquisition cost.

No matter how you slice it, the trade resulted in us sending out, or, costing us a FRP.

But Dragic did not cost us a FRP is the point you CONTINUE to ignore.

Shedding Dragic + getting an early 2nd cost us a lateFRP.

How hard is that?

[billy_hoyle]

No, it is the literal cost of acquiring Thad and a SRP, a FRP and Dragic.

It was a trade, a barter, something where you need to give to get.

We gave up a FRP. After the trade was consummated, we no longer had a FRP. The Raptors objectively did not have a FRP in the 2022 draft.

Discussing every part of the trade results in not having a FRP anymore. We had it, then we didn't. Period.

Okay, then you can isolate any part of any trade and highlight.

We spent a 2nd rounder on Marc Gasol and he helped us win the title. Period. What an amazing value deal, totally a legit argument to make.

But that is not at all what I am saying.

I said the trade cost us a FRP. But more appropriately, Dragic cost us a FRP. It is extremely common place for people to say X cost Y, when you need to attach a positive asset to a negative one to move it.

This isn't new, stop pretending like it is, it is an extremely common way to talk about trades and their acquisition cost.

No matter how you slice it, the trade resulted in us sending out, or, costing us a FRP.

Out of curiosity, would trading the 30th pick for the 31st pick and cash be best summarized as 'costing a 1st round pick'?

[Johnny Bball]

No, it is the literal cost of acquiring Thad and a SRP, a FRP and Dragic.

It was a trade, a barter, something where you need to give to get.

We gave up a FRP. After the trade was consummated, we no longer had a FRP. The Raptors objectively did not have a FRP in the 2022 draft.

Discussing every part of the trade results in not having a FRP anymore. We had it, then we didn't. Period.

Okay, then you can isolate any part of any trade and highlight.

We spent a 2nd rounder on Marc Gasol and he helped us win the title. Period. What an amazing value deal, totally a legit argument to make.

But that is not at all what I am saying.

I said the trade cost us a FRP. But more appropriately, Dragic cost us a FRP. It is extremely common place for people to say X cost Y, when you need to attach a positive asset to a negative one to move it.

This isn't new, stop pretending like it is, it is an extremely common way to talk about trades and their acquisition cost.

No matter how you slice it, the trade resulted in us sending out, or, costing us a FRP.

No, it didn't. When something costs $30 and you pay with a $100 bill, do you tell everyone who asks it cost you $100? Your whole slant is just so FOS.

[dohboy_24]

WTF does any of this banter have to do with the Pacers pick and where it ends up in the draft?

If you want to discuss/rate each and every move the FO has made in the past, perhaps a new thread for such a purpose would be more ideal than pages upon pages of posts that don't have anything to do with the thread...

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

What's the deal with this pick??? This is taking way to long.. let us know we got 19 and call it a day lol

[WuTang_CMB]

What's the deal with this pick??? This is taking way to long.. let us know we got 19 and call it a day lol

5pm announcement my sources tell me

[MiamiSPX]

What's the deal with this pick??? This is taking way to long.. let us know we got 19 and call it a day lol

5pm announcement my sources tell me

Cool, so we'll expect your post at 5:01.

[dTox]

What's the deal with this pick??? ...

[Bruin]

Smh

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[WuTang_CMB]

wow we got smoked

[DreamTeam09]

lol lol hopefully all our luck went to our ping-pong balls then

I think this takes us out of Salaun K.George territory