Is Kyrie the Goat "Guard" Robin of all time?

Calvin Klein · Post #41 » by **Calvin Klein** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:26 am

Sure buddy

Stan · Post #42 » by **Stan** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:27 am

Camby_Bamby wrote:
Stan wrote:
Camby_Bamby wrote:
Luka hasn’t won’t without Kyrie yet and hasn’t even sniffed playoff success.

For Lebron - I Don’t know, but-

2015- no Kyrie and they lost

2016 - Kyrie comfortably outplays Curry and hits the shot of the decade

2017- Kyrie needed Lebron to outplay KD; just didn’t happen

2018 - swept without Kyrie and forced to the Western Conference.

Just going to leave out the fact he made the Finals again without Kyrie in 2018 lol. Or that Luka was just in the conference finals 2 years ago. And your 2017 "analysis" would make even Skip Bayless blush.

I just don't hold merit on Eastern Conference Finals appearances the same way Lebron fans do. I'm sorry.

I do think that argument holds currency though. Just not with me. Getting swept in 2018 just isn't an accomplishment for most NBA Fans. This is especially the case knowing that the 2018 Rockets would've swept Cleveland that year too. Didn't have to be the Warriors.

Getting swept in the first round with KD averaging 21 ppg is an accomplishment though.

One_and_Done · Post #43 » by **One_and_Done** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:30 am

flytimes11 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
flytimes11 wrote:
Oh brother people like this shouldn’t be allowed to post. Kobe won more without Shaq. Shaq played with Wade, penny, nash, Lebron outside of Kobe. Just stupid to say “insert this player and they still win” like how dumb can you be. The same numbers Kobe put up in 01 and 02 are the same numbers he put up when he was back 2 back finals mvp but he was a “huge Robin” like just stupid logic . Clown behavior.

He literally won less without Shaq, so that's factually untrue.

Kobe went to 3 straight finals without Shaq. Shaq never even went to back 2 back finals without Kobe you clown. You prob the type that crowned Phoenix and Brooklyn champions after the harden and kd trade with that dumb replace ray Allen with Kobe logic.

Even if finals were the only metric, how would 4 with Shaq be inferior to 3 without? You said Kobe did better without Shaq. That is clearly factually false.

Myth · Post #44 » by **Myth** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:33 am

doogie_hauser wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Kobe was a much bigger Robin than him.

Kobe became Batman eventually (won 2 rings without Cactus)

Never really considered him a Robin tbh.
Legendary player.

Kobe is clearly Dick Grayson then.

Camby_Bamby · Post #45 » by **Camby_Bamby** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:35 am

Stan wrote:
Camby_Bamby wrote:
Stan wrote:Just going to leave out the fact he made the Finals again without Kyrie in 2018 lol. Or that Luka was just in the conference finals 2 years ago. And your 2017 "analysis" would make even Skip Bayless blush.

I just don't hold merit on Eastern Conference Finals appearances the same way Lebron fans do. I'm sorry.

I do think that argument holds currency though. Just not with me. Getting swept in 2018 just isn't an accomplishment for most NBA Fans. This is especially the case knowing that the 2018 Rockets would've swept Cleveland that year too. Didn't have to be the Warriors.

Getting swept in the first round with KD averaging 21 ppg is an accomplishment though.

Didn't say it was. Kyrie looks like he's about to go out West and fit right in. No long season layoffs or once in a lifetime global plagues to assist him. Paired him up with another superstar and pencil him in. Business as usual.

LaLover11 · Post #46 » by **LaLover11** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:36 am

Myth wrote:
doogie_hauser wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Kobe was a much bigger Robin than him.

Kobe became Batman eventually (won 2 rings without Cactus)

Never really considered him a Robin tbh.
Legendary player.

Kobe is clearly Dick Grayson then.

Nice Dick Grayson shout-out lol

G35 · Post #47 » by **G35** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:40 am

zimpy27 wrote:
G35 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:No, not close..

He might be the GOAT ancillary scoring option off of a heliocentric #1 though

Wasn't it said that no one but Lebron could go to the finals with Kyrie as their #2......

Who said that?

Pretty sure Celtics were favoured to go to finals in 2018 when he was there.

What were people saying about Kyrie after 2018 and 2019 when they lost to Milwaukee in the semi's in five games.

What were people saying about Kyrie after the whole Brooklyn fiasco.

What were people saying about Kyrie during the pandemic and he wouldn't play.

It wasn't his skills that people questioned, it was his attitude and plenty of posters were saying after all that drama look at what Lebron had to deal with with Kyrie.....

flytimes11 · Post #48 » by **flytimes11** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:47 am

One_and_Done wrote:
flytimes11 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:He literally won less without Shaq, so that's factually untrue.

Kobe went to 3 straight finals without Shaq. Shaq never even went to back 2 back finals without Kobe you clown. You prob the type that crowned Phoenix and Brooklyn champions after the harden and kd trade with that dumb replace ray Allen with Kobe logic.

Even if finals were the only metric, how would 4 with Shaq be inferior to 3 without? You said Kobe did better without Shaq. That is clearly factually false.

You said Shaq would 3 peat with ray allen. He didn’t make back 2 back finals with Wade or penny, two ray Allen level players. Stop being a clown and using dumb logic.

One_and_Done · Post #49 » by **One_and_Done** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:54 am

flytimes11 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
flytimes11 wrote:
Kobe went to 3 straight finals without Shaq. Shaq never even went to back 2 back finals without Kobe you clown. You prob the type that crowned Phoenix and Brooklyn champions after the harden and kd trade with that dumb replace ray Allen with Kobe logic.

Even if finals were the only metric, how would 4 with Shaq be inferior to 3 without? You said Kobe did better without Shaq. That is clearly factually false.

You said Shaq would 3 peat with ray allen. He didn’t make back 2 back finals with Wade or penny, two ray Allen level players. Stop being a clown and using dumb logic.

Well Shaq didn't have his peak years with those guys did he. If you ported healthy versions of Penny and Wade to 00-02 then they would win 3 titles too. Shaq had maybe 1-2 prime years with Wade. First year Wade is hurt in the ECFs, year two they win.

CodeBreaker · Post #50 » by **CodeBreaker** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:56 am

Steph Curry in 2018

SerialChiller · Post #51 » by **SerialChiller** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:56 am

Damn...didn't realize he was so close to the 50/40/90 this season.

flytimes11 · Post #52 » by **flytimes11** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:57 am

One_and_Done wrote:
flytimes11 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:Even if finals were the only metric, how would 4 with Shaq be inferior to 3 without? You said Kobe did better without Shaq. That is clearly factually false.

You said Shaq would 3 peat with ray allen. He didn’t make back 2 back finals with Wade or penny, two ray Allen level players. Stop being a clown and using dumb logic.

Well Shaq didn't have his peak years with those guys did he. If you ported healthy versions of Penny and Wade to 00-02 then they would win 3 titles too. Shaq had maybe 1-2 prime years with Wade. First year Wade is hurt in the ECFs, year two they win.

Stop discrediting Kobe with your stupid weak cheap argument. Replace such and such and they still win. You can’t prove that or back it up. But what I can prove is Kobe had more success without Shaq than Shaq had without Kobe. Also again Kobe put up the same numbers in 09 and 10 that he put up in 01 and 02 so your Robin statement is also dumb. Just like your entire argument. You sir are a clown.

LaLover11 · Post #53 » by **LaLover11** » Mon May 27, 2024 3:59 am

SerialChiller wrote:Damn...didn't realize he was so close to the 50/40/90 this season.

Nice catch! Didn't think someone would bring that up

Pelly24 · Post #54 » by **Pelly24** » Mon May 27, 2024 4:12 am

I actually think that other "guard" robins have generally been like, tied w. the "batman." I don't think 2018 CP3 was enough worse than Harden to call him a Robin. Steph was obviously the main focal point of defenses. Wade was basically past his prime after 2011, I'd put 2k24 kyrie above 2k12-2k14. He's up there, behind Kobe, who was obviously a much less impactful player than Shaq at that point (and always I guess).

One_and_Done · Post #55 » by **One_and_Done** » Mon May 27, 2024 4:29 am

flytimes11 wrote:
One_and_Done wrote:
flytimes11 wrote:
You said Shaq would 3 peat with ray allen. He didn’t make back 2 back finals with Wade or penny, two ray Allen level players. Stop being a clown and using dumb logic.

Well Shaq didn't have his peak years with those guys did he. If you ported healthy versions of Penny and Wade to 00-02 then they would win 3 titles too. Shaq had maybe 1-2 prime years with Wade. First year Wade is hurt in the ECFs, year two they win.

Stop discrediting Kobe with your stupid weak cheap argument. Replace such and such and they still win. You can’t prove that or back it up. But what I can prove is Kobe had more success without Shaq than Shaq had without Kobe. Also again Kobe put up the same numbers in 09 and 10 that he put up in 01 and 02 so your Robin statement is also dumb. Just like your entire argument. You sir are a clown.

I can prove what did happen, namely that Kobe went 135-137 from 99-07 in games without Shaq, including 23-26 from 99-04 specifically. In games Kobe missed Shaq had the Lakers playing at a 60+ win pace.

Nobody is arguing Kobe was better in 2010 as opposed to 02. That's the point. Kobe didn't get better, his support cast did. Without the best support cast in the league we can see how Kobe did. 135-137. Sub-500 territory. He wasn't a guy who could carry a team like genuine top 15ish players could (e.g Giannis, Jokic, Luka, KD, D.Rob, Nash, etc). That doesn't mean he wasn't a very valuable player, but it's clear his impact just wasn't at that level. Pace adjusted stats say it wasn't close vs alot of modern guys, and advanced stats hate him even more. There's just not alot of arguments to support your view of him

SpreeS · Post #56 » by **SpreeS** » Mon May 27, 2024 4:41 am

CodeBreaker wrote:Steph Curry in 2018

Magic in 1980

LaLover11 · Post #57 » by **LaLover11** » Mon May 27, 2024 4:48 am

SpreeS wrote:
CodeBreaker wrote:Steph Curry in 2018

Magic in 1980

he's great but no point forwards allowed

socal74 · Post #58 » by **socal74** » Mon May 27, 2024 5:55 am

One_and_Done wrote:Kobe was a much bigger Robin than him.

I'm now convinced that Lalover11 and you is the same poster

-Luke- · Post #59 » by **-Luke-** » Mon May 27, 2024 6:29 am

Can't believe nobody said "Robin Lopez" while there wasn't a "Guard" in the title.

hippesthippo · Post #60 » by **hippesthippo** » Mon May 27, 2024 6:37 am

zimpy27 wrote:No, not close..

He might be the GOAT ancillary scoring option off of a heliocentric #1 though

Yeah, I was thinking more along these lines as well. Not just a scoring option though. He can also shoulder enough of the playmaking duties to take over for Lebron or Luka when they aren't feeling it, or just need a breather. Most importantly, they trust him in that role; they know he's not gonna waste possessions.

It's definitely a niche. When he teamed up with Durant, who plays much more off the ball, it didn't quite work out as well.