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2023-24 General Thread

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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#501 » by OxAndFox » Tue May 28, 2024 9:56 pm

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:What do you mean you used efficiency? I'm not "plucking" ts%, what general stat is more respected? Do we need to get more information on this from another thread/forum, as im open to being corrected.

So, if I'm right on that, you literally just compared him to one of the few stars in his ts% neighborhood who ive told you is overrated on several occasions (Edwards) who has a better ts% than Fox.

And your not understanding the issue that Fox going from .599 to .567 ts% is not good at all, and central to Fox's game as a scorer, as you go to lengths to defend him. His scoring doesn't help if its not at a league average ts%, does it? There are really very few offensive stars in his neighborhood of ts%


HAHAHA I love it when you go out of your way to make petulant little threats. Like it means anything here anyway. Just on that, is there 1 good Sacramento Kings player?
This is how RealGM "rates" Sacramento Kings players. How many players do you see other users create trades where they are bringing in a Kings player?? This is outside of the division threads or the what should they do threads. None? Its just been an observation of mine for around a year now.

Anyway, back to the Boogie programming. Your whole argument is about efficiency shooting the ball. Right?

If you strictly use TS% then yes he had a drop and isn't up to scratch, but that is your ENTIRE argument about the game of basketball. Maybe if Fox, who should be a #2 scorer, had a player that could at least take on some of the load on a consistent basis this might not be as much of an issue for you.

The reason I showed efficiency as an offensive stat, where he is rated as good is because it encompasses the entire offense, not just shooting the ball, which when you don't have a competent #2 it puts massive pressure on and opposition teams know this. That hurt Fox immensely this season whereas the year before the offensive game plan covered up a lot of weaknesses. It's the reason why Brown has continually said the Kings need to improve on the offensive side of the ball.

More than I have mentioned FT shooting harming his TS% and he needs to get better from there, a lot better. Not only did he shoot poorly from the FT line, but he didn't get there as much as he, almost, ever has. There are reasons for that, but you know, we went through that during the season didn't we.
Instead of taking a leap with his 3pt shooting it didn't translate into the FT line. Had he made improvements to get to 80% then his TS% not only recovers, it elevates him. He absolutely should be held accountable for that, but to take that and churn out the rubbish that we get here is ridiculous.

You know what Fox will do though? Actually work on his shot this summer with an actual shooting coach. Anyone that has shown improvement like he did from the 3pt line should be applauded, particularly when he takes the odd poor one from there (grrr). Instead you want to try and poke holes in his game ad nauseam. It's annoying and it's probably why you feel I "go at lengths to defend him".
He doesn't need defending, his game is there for all to see. And it's extremely good. Don't forget, you're the only one in this world that believes he is getting paid $50m. Do you actually think you're judging him fairly when you are trying to put out there that he is making $50m.


what does this mean? what is "efficiency"?


efficiency

[ih-fish-uhn-see]

noun, Plural ef·fi·cien·cies.

the state or quality of being efficient, or able to accomplish something with the least waste of time and effort; competency in performance.
accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort:
The assembly line increased industry's efficiency.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#502 » by BoogieTime » Tue May 28, 2024 9:57 pm

OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
HAHAHA I love it when you go out of your way to make petulant little threats. Like it means anything here anyway. Just on that, is there 1 good Sacramento Kings player?
This is how RealGM "rates" Sacramento Kings players. How many players do you see other users create trades where they are bringing in a Kings player?? This is outside of the division threads or the what should they do threads. None? Its just been an observation of mine for around a year now.

Anyway, back to the Boogie programming. Your whole argument is about efficiency shooting the ball. Right?

If you strictly use TS% then yes he had a drop and isn't up to scratch, but that is your ENTIRE argument about the game of basketball. Maybe if Fox, who should be a #2 scorer, had a player that could at least take on some of the load on a consistent basis this might not be as much of an issue for you.

The reason I showed efficiency as an offensive stat, where he is rated as good is because it encompasses the entire offense, not just shooting the ball, which when you don't have a competent #2 it puts massive pressure on and opposition teams know this. That hurt Fox immensely this season whereas the year before the offensive game plan covered up a lot of weaknesses. It's the reason why Brown has continually said the Kings need to improve on the offensive side of the ball.

More than I have mentioned FT shooting harming his TS% and he needs to get better from there, a lot better. Not only did he shoot poorly from the FT line, but he didn't get there as much as he, almost, ever has. There are reasons for that, but you know, we went through that during the season didn't we.
Instead of taking a leap with his 3pt shooting it didn't translate into the FT line. Had he made improvements to get to 80% then his TS% not only recovers, it elevates him. He absolutely should be held accountable for that, but to take that and churn out the rubbish that we get here is ridiculous.

You know what Fox will do though? Actually work on his shot this summer with an actual shooting coach. Anyone that has shown improvement like he did from the 3pt line should be applauded, particularly when he takes the odd poor one from there (grrr). Instead you want to try and poke holes in his game ad nauseam. It's annoying and it's probably why you feel I "go at lengths to defend him".
He doesn't need defending, his game is there for all to see. And it's extremely good. Don't forget, you're the only one in this world that believes he is getting paid $50m. Do you actually think you're judging him fairly when you are trying to put out there that he is making $50m.


what does this mean? what is "efficiency"?


efficiency

[ih-fish-uhn-see]

noun, Plural ef·fi·cien·cies.

the state or quality of being efficient, or able to accomplish something with the least waste of time and effort; competency in performance.
accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a minimum expenditure of time and effort:
The assembly line increased industry's efficiency.


so its not an actual thing, just something your talking about in abstract? ok
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#503 » by OxAndFox » Tue May 28, 2024 10:11 pm

I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

And actually, the stat I was referencing takes it from both ends of the court so I apologise for being misleading on that as I thought it was only taking offensive stats from the NBA.com page.

If you look at the players at the below link, all of them have a similar offensive load. Yes he isn't near those at the top, but hang on.
THAT is what I'm talking about. You need to have a collective approach to stats IMO because every team is different and the roles within. Offensive loads, night in and night out are relevant.

Durant has Booker/Beal
Luka has Kyrie
Giannis has Dame
SGA has Jalen Williams
Tatum has Brown
Brunson has Randle (this is the narrowest of the lot, but you see what that did to the Knicks in the long run)
Maxey has Embiid
Edwards has KAT
Steph has himself and he is a freak but his overall efficiency isn't above Fox.

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?CF=FGA*G*18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StatCategory=EFF

WHO does Fox have that can shoulder the offensive load on a consistent basis and just go get a bucket?
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#504 » by BoogieTime » Tue May 28, 2024 10:53 pm

OxAndFox wrote:I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

And actually, the stat I was referencing takes it from both ends of the court so I apologise for being misleading on that as I thought it was only taking offensive stats from the NBA.com page.

If you look at the players at the below link, all of them have a similar offensive load. Yes he isn't near those at the top, but hang on.
THAT is what I'm talking about. You need to have a collective approach to stats IMO because every team is different and the roles within. Offensive loads, night in and night out are relevant.

Durant has Booker/Beal
Luka has Kyrie
Giannis has Dame
SGA has Jalen Williams
Tatum has Brown
Brunson has Randle (this is the narrowest of the lot, but you see what that did to the Knicks in the long run)
Maxey has Embiid
Edwards has KAT
Steph has himself and he is a freak but his overall efficiency isn't above Fox.

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?CF=FGA*G*18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StatCategory=EFF

WHO does Fox have that can shoulder the offensive load on a consistent basis and just go get a bucket?


Domas, in addition to scoring near 20 is averaging over 8 assists a game has some gravity to him with his strength/playmaking, its not like he's out there commanding no attention.

SGA has Jalen Williams? lol. Brunson hand Randle? You can go down the list and argue this, who does Mitchell have?

It may be somewhat causative, but doesn't fully excuse his inefficiency. Every star without a significant second man would have this excused not to be efficient (and Domas is fine as a 2nd scorer for this argument imo). If he's inefficient, I'm not just going to say lets pay him 50 mil or whatever on his next contract because I hope he will become more efficient if we had some more firepower

And his efficiency is one issue. His inconsistency is another. He was great the first couple of months and awful other months. He's great certain games and awful others. His motor needs to be handled better like in 2023 as well
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#505 » by BoogieTime » Wed May 29, 2024 12:01 am

^^ In addition to Domas gravity, the Kings have had shooters everywhere else in that starting unit at least
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#506 » by OxAndFox » Wed May 29, 2024 12:04 am

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

And actually, the stat I was referencing takes it from both ends of the court so I apologise for being misleading on that as I thought it was only taking offensive stats from the NBA.com page.

If you look at the players at the below link, all of them have a similar offensive load. Yes he isn't near those at the top, but hang on.
THAT is what I'm talking about. You need to have a collective approach to stats IMO because every team is different and the roles within. Offensive loads, night in and night out are relevant.

Durant has Booker/Beal
Luka has Kyrie
Giannis has Dame
SGA has Jalen Williams
Tatum has Brown
Brunson has Randle (this is the narrowest of the lot, but you see what that did to the Knicks in the long run)
Maxey has Embiid
Edwards has KAT
Steph has himself and he is a freak but his overall efficiency isn't above Fox.

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?CF=FGA*G*18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StatCategory=EFF

WHO does Fox have that can shoulder the offensive load on a consistent basis and just go get a bucket?


Domas, in addition to scoring near 20 is averaging over 8 assists a game has some gravity to him with his strength/playmaking, its not like he's out there commanding no attention.

SGA has Jalen Williams? lol. Brunson hand Randle? You can go down the list and argue this, who does Mitchell have?

It may be somewhat causative, but doesn't fully excuse his inefficiency. Every star without a significant second man would have this excused not to be efficient (and Domas is fine as a 2nd scorer for this argument imo). If he's inefficient, I'm not just going to say lets pay him 50 mil or whatever on his next contract because I hope he will become more efficient if we had some more firepower

And his efficiency is one issue. His inconsistency is another. He was great the first couple of months and awful other months. He's great certain games and awful others. His motor needs to be handled better like in 2023 as well


You bring up Domas as just fine as a 2nd option and then laugh at Jalen Williams? Wow. In a chat about TS% Williams is .621 and you LOL. Do you know why he is shooting that well? Apart from him being a walking bucket, SGA.

Domas is a very good player, great offensive player, but the dude simply can't shoot and if he can't bully guys he struggles to score. It's part of my only negative with Domas. He came away from a PO series where the opposition gamed him and all but laughed at his shooting...and proceeded to work on his shooting with...Doug Freaking Christie. BUT you can forgive him for that too because IMO he was much better defensively this season, along with Fox. You can't be perfect out there on the court.
Sabonis simply isn't a second scoring option. All of the guys on that list are better at going and getting a bucket than Domas, by a fairly wide margin, yes Randle included. What other players in the NBA do teams allow to shoot from 10ft out like they do Domas and they're a 2nd option? No one. THAT is Fox's second option and it proves the point.

It's why the all out offence masked a lot of cracks on that end the year before and they were glaring this year that when you don't go all out offense, Fox had far too much on his plate.
So again, yeah Fox fell in TS%, but look at it and look into why that might be instead of just using your go-to...motor.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#507 » by OxAndFox » Wed May 29, 2024 12:11 am

BoogieTime wrote:^^ In addition to Domas gravity, the Kings have had shooters everywhere else in that starting unit at least


Where is this gravity stat?
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#508 » by BoogieTime » Wed May 29, 2024 12:35 am

OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

And actually, the stat I was referencing takes it from both ends of the court so I apologise for being misleading on that as I thought it was only taking offensive stats from the NBA.com page.

If you look at the players at the below link, all of them have a similar offensive load. Yes he isn't near those at the top, but hang on.
THAT is what I'm talking about. You need to have a collective approach to stats IMO because every team is different and the roles within. Offensive loads, night in and night out are relevant.

Durant has Booker/Beal
Luka has Kyrie
Giannis has Dame
SGA has Jalen Williams
Tatum has Brown
Brunson has Randle (this is the narrowest of the lot, but you see what that did to the Knicks in the long run)
Maxey has Embiid
Edwards has KAT
Steph has himself and he is a freak but his overall efficiency isn't above Fox.

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?CF=FGA*G*18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StatCategory=EFF

WHO does Fox have that can shoulder the offensive load on a consistent basis and just go get a bucket?


Domas, in addition to scoring near 20 is averaging over 8 assists a game has some gravity to him with his strength/playmaking, its not like he's out there commanding no attention.

SGA has Jalen Williams? lol. Brunson hand Randle? You can go down the list and argue this, who does Mitchell have?

It may be somewhat causative, but doesn't fully excuse his inefficiency. Every star without a significant second man would have this excused not to be efficient (and Domas is fine as a 2nd scorer for this argument imo). If he's inefficient, I'm not just going to say lets pay him 50 mil or whatever on his next contract because I hope he will become more efficient if we had some more firepower

And his efficiency is one issue. His inconsistency is another. He was great the first couple of months and awful other months. He's great certain games and awful others. His motor needs to be handled better like in 2023 as well


You bring up Domas as just fine as a 2nd option and then laugh at Jalen Williams? Wow. In a chat about TS% Williams is .621 and you LOL. Do you know why he is shooting that well? Apart from him being a walking bucket, SGA.

Domas is a very good player, great offensive player, but the dude simply can't shoot and if he can't bully guys he struggles to score. It's part of my only negative with Domas. He came away from a PO series where the opposition gamed him and all but laughed at his shooting...and proceeded to work on his shooting with...Doug Freaking Christie. BUT you can forgive him for that too because IMO he was much better defensively this season, along with Fox. You can't be perfect out there on the court.
Sabonis simply isn't a second scoring option. All of the guys on that list are better at going and getting a bucket than Domas, by a fairly wide margin, yes Randle included. What other players in the NBA do teams allow to shoot from 10ft out like they do Domas and they're a 2nd option? No one. THAT is Fox's second option and it proves the point.

It's why the all out offence masked a lot of cracks on that end the year before and they were glaring this year that when you don't go all out offense, Fox had far too much on his plate.
So again, yeah Fox fell in TS%, but look at it and look into why that might be instead of just using your go-to...motor.


Domas can shoot check his 3 pt%, and he doesn't initiate in the paint, and his jokic lite passing is more attention than whatever difference you think Jalen Williams has in scoring lol

Domas is an offensive hub that commands attention
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#509 » by BoogieTime » Wed May 29, 2024 12:40 am

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Domas, in addition to scoring near 20 is averaging over 8 assists a game has some gravity to him with his strength/playmaking, its not like he's out there commanding no attention.

SGA has Jalen Williams? lol. Brunson hand Randle? You can go down the list and argue this, who does Mitchell have?

It may be somewhat causative, but doesn't fully excuse his inefficiency. Every star without a significant second man would have this excused not to be efficient (and Domas is fine as a 2nd scorer for this argument imo). If he's inefficient, I'm not just going to say lets pay him 50 mil or whatever on his next contract because I hope he will become more efficient if we had some more firepower

And his efficiency is one issue. His inconsistency is another. He was great the first couple of months and awful other months. He's great certain games and awful others. His motor needs to be handled better like in 2023 as well


You bring up Domas as just fine as a 2nd option and then laugh at Jalen Williams? Wow. In a chat about TS% Williams is .621 and you LOL. Do you know why he is shooting that well? Apart from him being a walking bucket, SGA.

Domas is a very good player, great offensive player, but the dude simply can't shoot and if he can't bully guys he struggles to score. It's part of my only negative with Domas. He came away from a PO series where the opposition gamed him and all but laughed at his shooting...and proceeded to work on his shooting with...Doug Freaking Christie. BUT you can forgive him for that too because IMO he was much better defensively this season, along with Fox. You can't be perfect out there on the court.
Sabonis simply isn't a second scoring option. All of the guys on that list are better at going and getting a bucket than Domas, by a fairly wide margin, yes Randle included. What other players in the NBA do teams allow to shoot from 10ft out like they do Domas and they're a 2nd option? No one. THAT is Fox's second option and it proves the point.

It's why the all out offence masked a lot of cracks on that end the year before and they were glaring this year that when you don't go all out offense, Fox had far too much on his plate.
So again, yeah Fox fell in TS%, but look at it and look into why that might be instead of just using your go-to...motor.


Domas can shoot check his 3 pt%, and he doesn't initiate in the paint, and his jokic lite passing is more attention than whatever difference you think Jalen Williams has in scoring lol

Domas is an offensive hub that commands attention


Additionally, Domas' screen setting/actions two man game should help Fox more than Williams helps SGA, and arguably should expand Fox's game as much as these other duos
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#510 » by OxAndFox » Wed May 29, 2024 1:45 am

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Domas, in addition to scoring near 20 is averaging over 8 assists a game has some gravity to him with his strength/playmaking, its not like he's out there commanding no attention.

SGA has Jalen Williams? lol. Brunson hand Randle? You can go down the list and argue this, who does Mitchell have?

It may be somewhat causative, but doesn't fully excuse his inefficiency. Every star without a significant second man would have this excused not to be efficient (and Domas is fine as a 2nd scorer for this argument imo). If he's inefficient, I'm not just going to say lets pay him 50 mil or whatever on his next contract because I hope he will become more efficient if we had some more firepower

And his efficiency is one issue. His inconsistency is another. He was great the first couple of months and awful other months. He's great certain games and awful others. His motor needs to be handled better like in 2023 as well


You bring up Domas as just fine as a 2nd option and then laugh at Jalen Williams? Wow. In a chat about TS% Williams is .621 and you LOL. Do you know why he is shooting that well? Apart from him being a walking bucket, SGA.

Domas is a very good player, great offensive player, but the dude simply can't shoot and if he can't bully guys he struggles to score. It's part of my only negative with Domas. He came away from a PO series where the opposition gamed him and all but laughed at his shooting...and proceeded to work on his shooting with...Doug Freaking Christie. BUT you can forgive him for that too because IMO he was much better defensively this season, along with Fox. You can't be perfect out there on the court.
Sabonis simply isn't a second scoring option. All of the guys on that list are better at going and getting a bucket than Domas, by a fairly wide margin, yes Randle included. What other players in the NBA do teams allow to shoot from 10ft out like they do Domas and they're a 2nd option? No one. THAT is Fox's second option and it proves the point.

It's why the all out offence masked a lot of cracks on that end the year before and they were glaring this year that when you don't go all out offense, Fox had far too much on his plate.
So again, yeah Fox fell in TS%, but look at it and look into why that might be instead of just using your go-to...motor.


Domas can shoot check his 3 pt%, and he doesn't initiate in the paint, and his jokic lite passing is more attention than whatever difference you think Jalen Williams has in scoring lol

Domas is an offensive hub that commands attention


I mean come on man. That's ridiculous. You're going to play the Sabonis can shoot because he shoots 37% on 1 attempt per game?
We know you don't watch the actual Kings play, maybe the occassional game that gets switched off early on, and then try and be a box score bandit, so I don't hold it against you for not being up to date on Jalen's game or any other team. Try and watch him Williams some time, you might be impressed.

As soon as you go with - screen setting, gravity, two man action, offensive hub, you know, everything that's not being talked about, it's obvious you know what I'm saying about Fox, but just want to argue, because well, Fox.
You going to these buzz words just proves how much is on Fox's shoulders scoring wise.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#511 » by BoogieTime » Wed May 29, 2024 2:07 am

OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
You bring up Domas as just fine as a 2nd option and then laugh at Jalen Williams? Wow. In a chat about TS% Williams is .621 and you LOL. Do you know why he is shooting that well? Apart from him being a walking bucket, SGA.

Domas is a very good player, great offensive player, but the dude simply can't shoot and if he can't bully guys he struggles to score. It's part of my only negative with Domas. He came away from a PO series where the opposition gamed him and all but laughed at his shooting...and proceeded to work on his shooting with...Doug Freaking Christie. BUT you can forgive him for that too because IMO he was much better defensively this season, along with Fox. You can't be perfect out there on the court.
Sabonis simply isn't a second scoring option. All of the guys on that list are better at going and getting a bucket than Domas, by a fairly wide margin, yes Randle included. What other players in the NBA do teams allow to shoot from 10ft out like they do Domas and they're a 2nd option? No one. THAT is Fox's second option and it proves the point.

It's why the all out offence masked a lot of cracks on that end the year before and they were glaring this year that when you don't go all out offense, Fox had far too much on his plate.
So again, yeah Fox fell in TS%, but look at it and look into why that might be instead of just using your go-to...motor.


Domas can shoot check his 3 pt%, and he doesn't initiate in the paint, and his jokic lite passing is more attention than whatever difference you think Jalen Williams has in scoring lol

Domas is an offensive hub that commands attention


I mean come on man. That's ridiculous. You're going to play the Sabonis can shoot because he shoots 37% on 1 attempt per game?
We know you don't watch the actual Kings play, maybe the occassional game that gets switched off early on, and then try and be a box score bandit, so I don't hold it against you for not being up to date on Jalen's game or any other team. Try and watch him Williams some time, you might be impressed.

As soon as you go with - screen setting, gravity, two man action, offensive hub, you know, everything that's not being talked about, it's obvious you know what I'm saying about Fox, but just want to argue, because well, Fox.
You going to these buzz words just proves how much is on Fox's shoulders scoring wise.


Domas was brought in in part to accentuate Fox's game...

The synergy of his two man game with Fox didn't hurt Fox's ts% last year, lol.

but this is just you cluttering the thread with excuses for Fox's bad efficiency

There is none. Insofar as ts% is the best indicator of efficiency (open to arguments here), and insofar as Fox's ts% is not good, and this happens multiple years in a row I won't consider him solidly a top tier player or want him on a long term big contract here because he's primarily a scorer without very strong other attributes

His efficiency NEEDS to be in the land of the living. I'm hopefully he gets it right like in 2023 consistently
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#512 » by OxAndFox » Wed May 29, 2024 2:36 am

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
Domas can shoot check his 3 pt%, and he doesn't initiate in the paint, and his jokic lite passing is more attention than whatever difference you think Jalen Williams has in scoring lol

Domas is an offensive hub that commands attention


I mean come on man. That's ridiculous. You're going to play the Sabonis can shoot because he shoots 37% on 1 attempt per game?
We know you don't watch the actual Kings play, maybe the occassional game that gets switched off early on, and then try and be a box score bandit, so I don't hold it against you for not being up to date on Jalen's game or any other team. Try and watch him Williams some time, you might be impressed.

As soon as you go with - screen setting, gravity, two man action, offensive hub, you know, everything that's not being talked about, it's obvious you know what I'm saying about Fox, but just want to argue, because well, Fox.
You going to these buzz words just proves how much is on Fox's shoulders scoring wise.


Domas was brought in in part to accentuate Fox's game...

The synergy of his two man game with Fox didn't hurt Fox's ts% last year, lol.

but this is just you cluttering the thread with excuses for Fox's bad efficiency

There is none. Insofar as ts% is the best indicator of efficiency (open to arguments here), and insofar as Fox's ts% is not good, and this happens multiple years in a row I won't consider him solidly a top tier player or want him on a long term big contract here because he's primarily a scorer without very strong other attributes

His efficiency NEEDS to be in the land of the living. I'm hopefully he gets it right like in 2023 consistently


Cool bro. TS% is the best indicator of efficiency, not the efficiency stat itself. LOL This had run its course as soon as you mentioned Fox, but I fell for it. There will always be something and when there isn't, there's always motor. Broooom Brooooom.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#513 » by FarBeyondDriven » Thu May 30, 2024 9:25 am

codydaze wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
LightTheBeam wrote:It's hilarious to read people here saying the words inefficient and volume scorer next to fox name.

27pts, 47% from the field, 37% from 3.

Then the same person tries to hype up Monk. Who was 15ppg on 44% and 35%.

Like holy crap, open your eyes or something lol. We don't deserve fox man. It's pathetic


Then doubles down on TS% when Fox is better! All that despite being a far, far below-average FT shooter, which people should get on Fox about. The other stuff? Nah, not so much.


His poor free throw shooting is what pulls his TS% down so much too. If he was an 80% shooter from the line all of a sudden that efficiency jumps way up. His percentages from the field are pretty damn efficient for the volume of shots he takes and defensive attention he gets with the ball.


it's also that we don't really have a lot of guys that can go get baskets if things break down so that responsibility seems to fall on Fox late in shot clocks and looks aren't the cleanest.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#514 » by BoogieTime » Thu May 30, 2024 11:10 am

OxAndFox wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:
I mean come on man. That's ridiculous. You're going to play the Sabonis can shoot because he shoots 37% on 1 attempt per game?
We know you don't watch the actual Kings play, maybe the occassional game that gets switched off early on, and then try and be a box score bandit, so I don't hold it against you for not being up to date on Jalen's game or any other team. Try and watch him Williams some time, you might be impressed.

As soon as you go with - screen setting, gravity, two man action, offensive hub, you know, everything that's not being talked about, it's obvious you know what I'm saying about Fox, but just want to argue, because well, Fox.
You going to these buzz words just proves how much is on Fox's shoulders scoring wise.


Domas was brought in in part to accentuate Fox's game...

The synergy of his two man game with Fox didn't hurt Fox's ts% last year, lol.

but this is just you cluttering the thread with excuses for Fox's bad efficiency

There is none. Insofar as ts% is the best indicator of efficiency (open to arguments here), and insofar as Fox's ts% is not good, and this happens multiple years in a row I won't consider him solidly a top tier player or want him on a long term big contract here because he's primarily a scorer without very strong other attributes

His efficiency NEEDS to be in the land of the living. I'm hopefully he gets it right like in 2023 consistently


Cool bro. TS% is the best indicator of efficiency, not the efficiency stat itself. LOL This had run its course as soon as you mentioned Fox, but I fell for it. There will always be something and when there isn't, there's always motor. Broooom Brooooom.


That will matter as soon as it’s not something your making up yourself to make excuses for Fox’ efficiency (or maybe you misrepresented your argument and you actually have a concrete stat to show us recognized by someone else other than you and not just some subjective/individual biased hypothesis to purposefully defend Fox). Others are bringing ideas other than their own “theories” that I may agree or disagree with.

Until then, yep, it’s ts% unless you actually have a sound argument for a viable alternative actually recognized and verified by the bball community

I agree ts% is still not truly perfect, but no stat is and is still the best widespread stat the bball community has/utilizes at the time though we can have this discussion on the GB/player comparisons forums in case I’m overlooking or someone has a better stat (I’m sure they’d love your “efficiency” “stat”, lol)

It’s more like I should have known to just go back and forth with you as your only focus is to in a biased manner protect certain players instead of discuss the issue in a all encompassing critical and non emotional way. It’s like engaging in a discussion with someone who works for the Kings with a specific agenda. From your posting history the agenda seems to be “we need to lock out the forum from negative thought at all costs!” But it’s actually a fairly important issue.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#515 » by typedrat » Fri May 31, 2024 12:50 am

Read on Twitter


Vivek needs to stop getting team management tips from his pal John Fisher...
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#516 » by BoogieTime » Fri May 31, 2024 1:57 am

typedrat wrote:
Read on Twitter


Vivek needs to stop getting team management tips from his pal John Fisher...


he's a clown. not competitive at all

Brown is a top tier coach, and 10 mil is actually a low offer for him and generous for him to accept
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#517 » by Lost in LA » Fri May 31, 2024 5:13 pm

The Kings are showing their cheapness so publicly, which is a pretty bad look for the organization. This counter offer report makes them look even more fooolish.

It seems likely that a deal gets done and Mike Brown will probably end up making somewhere between $8-$10 million per year plus incentives. Brown seems to have outsmarted them here, and he will win the battle but the entire organization looks bad. If I were a player, it would make me pause about playing in Sacramento.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#518 » by LightTheBeam » Fri May 31, 2024 5:23 pm

Thoughts on Mike Brown -

We are in a really bad spot. He isn't a great coach. His rotations are not great, his stubbornness to continue to play Huerter/Barnes in the starting lineup/big minutes all year cost us a ton of games. His defense schemes are bottom tier in the league, we allow wide open 3s like candy, and we have zero answer to any team with size. He blitzs way too much on the perimeter and it led to easy buckets all year. Our pick and roll defense is also pitiful. We blew how many 20 point leads, which IMO is a direct look on the coach. We would go up playing team ball and then 2nd half start milking clock and playing trash iso or post up play. Now some of this is partially due to bad defense personnel, but a lot of this was easily covered with good coaching and he didn't bring that.

It reminds me of game 7 vs GS when he decided for some odd reason to let TD guard Curry for 20+ mins alone and get torched for 50.

The ideal replacement was Jordi who is head and shoulders better, but we let him go. And Mike just led the 2 best seasons since Adelman, although anyone can see it had much more to do with the roster being far and away better than the Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Stauskas pathetic rosters we threw out many of those years. So its a terrible look to let him leave, and we are in a bad spot of being forced to overpay a mediocre coach because of optics.

Yup, I'll stand on this ledge alone. Overrated coach. He's the guy you want to right the ship, but not the guy that takes you to the next level.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#519 » by OxAndFox » Fri May 31, 2024 11:21 pm

LightTheBeam wrote:Thoughts on Mike Brown -

We are in a really bad spot. He isn't a great coach. His rotations are not great, his stubbornness to continue to play Huerter/Barnes in the starting lineup/big minutes all year cost us a ton of games. His defense schemes are bottom tier in the league, we allow wide open 3s like candy, and we have zero answer to any team with size. He blitzs way too much on the perimeter and it led to easy buckets all year. Our pick and roll defense is also pitiful. We blew how many 20 point leads, which IMO is a direct look on the coach. We would go up playing team ball and then 2nd half start milking clock and playing trash iso or post up play. Now some of this is partially due to bad defense personnel, but a lot of this was easily covered with good coaching and he didn't bring that.

It reminds me of game 7 vs GS when he decided for some odd reason to let TD guard Curry for 20+ mins alone and get torched for 50.

The ideal replacement was Jordi who is head and shoulders better, but we let him go. And Mike just led the 2 best seasons since Adelman, although anyone can see it had much more to do with the roster being far and away better than the Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Stauskas pathetic rosters we threw out many of those years. So its a terrible look to let him leave, and we are in a bad spot of being forced to overpay a mediocre coach because of optics.

Yup, I'll stand on this ledge alone. Overrated coach. He's the guy you want to right the ship, but not the guy that takes you to the next level.


You bring up some good points. I just don't see who this franchise would go to now Jordi is gone, as you point out and yes, that's the tough spot the Kings are in now.
IMO it's clear as day the Kings feel similar to you so they either need to cut him loose now or give him an extension that is commensurate with the rest of the NBA. If they are actually still on the fence with him then they should know they may have to burn through some cash if they fire him.
Heck, look at the money they burned through before this past season on players that were never going to suit up for Sacramento.

I agree with his defensive schemes need to be better regarding the 3pt looks opposition players get. I don't even think that is a personnel issue.
It's weird you know, as you point out, he stayed with Huerter/Barnes but wanted a more defensive approach yet didn't even give the defensive players on the squad a chance.
I know people don't like Duarte, but perhaps he gets in a groove with a consistent role as a starter? Not 3-4 games, give him 20-25 games before you yank him. Just tell him NO mid range jump shots unless its with a second on the clock and NO reaching on D.
Kessler Edwards may be that 3&D guy this team is looking for? Not suggesting he should play 30+ minutes. But 20-22? Sure.
You can see with Keon, sometimes these guys need a chance at some consistent time.

A bench of Monk/Huerter/Barnes/Lyles/Len would have been quite scary for opposition teams.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#520 » by OxAndFox » Fri May 31, 2024 11:24 pm

Just want to add to that. Kessler Edwards shot the corner 3 as well as anyone else on the team.

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