Miami Heat Offseason Thread vol. 2 : We Running it Back.. (WITH MITCHELL!)

[contract]

Jimmy has Riley and Arison backed into a corner. You either patch things up quickly and give him his extension or Jimmy ask for a trade and the low ball offers come flying in. Play hard ball thinking he's going to be some type of good soldier and play out his contract and risk this turning really nasty in the media. That trade me to Philly only request is going to hit like a ton of bricks.

Yeah, I don't think I want another bad parting with a superstar. We've had a few...

I'm accepting of Jimmy getting his extension. Maybe it's not the best business, but he has carried a heavy load since joining us and led us to within a bees dick of a championship. The NBA remains wide open, and with some tinkering of our other players and our offense, we could and should still be right there. We need to start taking the regular season more seriously and making it easier for ourselves when we get to the Playoffs.

If we can swing a combination of Herro/Duncan/Rozier/Picks into better fitting pieces that work with what we're trying to do, I don't see why we can't make some noise.

How are we supposed to take the regular season more seriously when Jimmy misses 25%-30% of the season? That is why 4 out of the past 5 years we've been seeded 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.

[IceColdCubano]

Jimmy has Riley and Arison backed into a corner. You either patch things up quickly and give him his extension or Jimmy ask for a trade and the low ball offers come flying in. Play hard ball thinking he's going to be some type of good soldier and play out his contract and risk this turning really nasty in the media. That trade me to Philly only request is going to hit like a ton of bricks.

Yeah, I don't think I want another bad parting with a superstar. We've had a few...

I'm accepting of Jimmy getting his extension. Maybe it's not the best business, but he has carried a heavy load since joining us and led us to within a bees dick of a championship. The NBA remains wide open, and with some tinkering of our other players and our offense, we could and should still be right there. We need to start taking the regular season more seriously and making it easier for ourselves when we get to the Playoffs.

If we can swing a combination of Herro/Duncan/Rozier/Picks into better fitting pieces that work with what we're trying to do, I don't see why we can't make some noise.

How are we supposed to take the regular season more seriously when Jimmy misses 25%-30% of the season? That is why 4 out of the past 5 years we've been seeded 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.

That's a pass from me, nobody I mean nobody should get extra Millions at the tale end of their career for things they did earlier, nobody deserves that. You get paid what your worth or what the market can pay when your at your peak and doing those things that deserve that money, pass that, keep it moving or go somewhere else.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Jimmy has Riley and Arison backed into a corner. You either patch things up quickly and give him his extension or Jimmy ask for a trade and the low ball offers come flying in. Play hard ball thinking he's going to be some type of good soldier and play out his contract and risk this turning really nasty in the media. That trade me to Philly only request is going to hit like a ton of bricks.

The only correct response to a player demanding a trade to a specific team is to make clear that that is the only place you won't trade him.

From Riley’s reaction to Shaq and how he traded his behind when he tried to get pretty with Pat, if Butler gets funny with Pat, I could see Pat trading him anywhere but his desired destination. Taking a page from the Cronnin book.

Meh i think Jimmy has some sort of control. Not just anybody is going to give assets for a potential 35 year old malcontent with a player option unless they commit to extension. Just not very many teams in that position. Easier said then done.

[AirP.]

Opt out next summer? That would be extremely foolish on his part.

Risk injury for an entire season at 35 all because you want to bet on yourself, when he could get a max contract extension right now, and play with a good friend of his in Embiid and Maxey and be instant title contenders?

Nah he won’t pass that up.

He absolutely would bet on himself.

I don't think people understand what really happened when he bet on himself in Chicago. He didn't just turn down an extension to become a RFA in Chicago, he was told by the GM that if he didn't sign the contract, they'd have the coach bury him on bench to tank his value (this is one of the reasons Butler loves Thibodeau and one of the reasons why Chicago's FO wanted Thibodeau out).

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Here's the rumor that Butler verified in only one interview then never verified it again, although Tony Snell's name was never mentioned. Gar Foreman was one of the worst people to ever to be in a FO which is one of the big reasons I'm no longer a Bulls fan.

Spoiler:

What I was told is -- and I don’t know who it was in the front office; I don’t have a name -- but that he was told, “Well, if you don’t take this, we’re going to play Tony Snell your minutes. We’re going to play Tony Snell over you, and then good luck trying to get this kind of money when your number sare down. And that, if it’s true -- and it’s what I was told, and I believe it, but it’s the same thing of any gossipy industry that you’re in -- then it doesn’t make sense that Jimmy Butler can’t stand the front office and loves Thibs, because Thibs apparently went, “No, I’m not playing Tony Snell over Jimmy Butler. Are you freaking kidding me?”

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/rumor-bulls-told-jimmy-butler-during-contract-extension-negotiations-theyd-stick-him-behind-tony-snell-if-he-didnt-sign

That was a young Butler. Not a 35 year old Butler who has his handlers making it known he wants his extension the moment he’s eligible or send him to a team that’s willing to give it too him.

It's the same person who is devoted to keeping himself in shape and has been limiting himself in the regular season to prolong his career, I would think he has a pretty good idea how much work it'll take to keep himself in shape to play into his late 30s.

[MettaWorldPanda]

He absolutely would bet on himself.

I don't think people understand what really happened when he bet on himself in Chicago. He didn't just turn down an extension to become a RFA in Chicago, he was told by the GM that if he didn't sign the contract, they'd have the coach bury him on bench to tank his value (this is one of the reasons Butler loves Thibodeau and one of the reasons why Chicago's FO wanted Thibodeau out).

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Here's the rumor that Butler verified in only one interview then never verified it again, although Tony Snell's name was never mentioned. Gar Foreman was one of the worst people to ever to be in a FO which is one of the big reasons I'm no longer a Bulls fan.

Spoiler:

What I was told is -- and I don’t know who it was in the front office; I don’t have a name -- but that he was told, “Well, if you don’t take this, we’re going to play Tony Snell your minutes. We’re going to play Tony Snell over you, and then good luck trying to get this kind of money when your number sare down. And that, if it’s true -- and it’s what I was told, and I believe it, but it’s the same thing of any gossipy industry that you’re in -- then it doesn’t make sense that Jimmy Butler can’t stand the front office and loves Thibs, because Thibs apparently went, “No, I’m not playing Tony Snell over Jimmy Butler. Are you freaking kidding me?”

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/rumor-bulls-told-jimmy-butler-during-contract-extension-negotiations-theyd-stick-him-behind-tony-snell-if-he-didnt-sign

That was a young Butler. Not a 35 year old Butler who has his handlers making it known he wants his extension the moment he’s eligible or send him to a team that’s willing to give it too him.

It's the same person who is devoted to keeping himself in shape and has been limiting himself in the regular season to prolong his career, I would think he has a pretty good idea how much work it'll take to keep himself in shape to play into his late 30s.

If his agent is smart which i’m sure he is he is going to do everything in his power to get him that extension or force a trade to a team that will. I know if i was his agent i would take a no extension from the Heat as a complete slap in the face. Bet on yourself all you want this is business principal.

[marson]

Sript has been leaked

-Butler to 76ers for picks
-Mitchell to stay with Cavs with that supermax and will ask for a trade 2 years later
-LeBron to stay with LA and drafts Bronny
-Garland traded to Lakers for peanuts
-Klay to Magic
-Hayward to Heat

[greg4012]

Give Jimmy the extension if Miami can somehow make the swing for an offensive upgrade this summer. If not, I don't think the cap hell and team building limitations for a player at the tail end of his career makes sense. When superstars decline, they don't just lose the magic that makes them, they just are able to summon it less and less frequently. I think we saw that happening last season.

If Miami can't swing a big trade for an offensive upgrade, then it's a sh**ty situation with Jimmy. Either let him play out the last season of his contract and choose whether he opts in or not (doubtful he would) or trade him.

I don't like the breakup, but it becomes the rational play.

[greg4012]

Sript has been leaked

-Butler to 76ers for picks
-Mitchell to stay with Cavs with that supermax and will ask for a trade 2 years later
-LeBron to stay with LA and drafts Bronny
-Garland traded to Lakers for peanuts
-Klay to Magic
-Hayward to Heat

Is Mitchell eligible for a supermax? I thought he wasn't.

[AirP.]

Yeah, I don't think I want another bad parting with a superstar. We've had a few...

I'm accepting of Jimmy getting his extension. Maybe it's not the best business, but he has carried a heavy load since joining us and led us to within a bees dick of a championship. The NBA remains wide open, and with some tinkering of our other players and our offense, we could and should still be right there. We need to start taking the regular season more seriously and making it easier for ourselves when we get to the Playoffs.

If we can swing a combination of Herro/Duncan/Rozier/Picks into better fitting pieces that work with what we're trying to do, I don't see why we can't make some noise.

How are we supposed to take the regular season more seriously when Jimmy misses 25%-30% of the season? That is why 4 out of the past 5 years we've been seeded 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.

That's a pass from me, nobody I mean nobody should get extra Millions at the tale end of their career for things they did earlier, nobody deserves that. You get paid what your worth or what the market can pay when your at your peak and doing those things that deserve that money, pass that, keep it moving or go somewhere else.

Nobody? Sometimes players deserve more than the max, for instance Edwards now, Wemby on the rookie level contract and a guy like LeBron nearly his whole career.

The way you take care of top tier talent can give you an advantage when trying to acquire top tier talent in FA or player's trying to force their way to your team. Miami screwed up with D.Wade and have been overpaying midlevel players to try to fix that issue.

What's odd to me is the outcry of max guys while having no real issue overpaying midlevel players who don't have a history of good/great play. Even if you think it's going to be a bad value, I'm pretty sure you can find a worst value in multiple contracts on the same roster that add up to nearly the same money.

[SA37]

Jimmy has Riley and Arison backed into a corner. You either patch things up quickly and give him his extension or Jimmy ask for a trade and the low ball offers come flying in. Play hard ball thinking he's going to be some type of good soldier and play out his contract and risk this turning really nasty in the media. That trade me to Philly only request is going to hit like a ton of bricks.

Yeah, I don't think I want another bad parting with a superstar. We've had a few...

I'm accepting of Jimmy getting his extension. Maybe it's not the best business, but he has carried a heavy load since joining us and led us to within a bees dick of a championship. The NBA remains wide open, and with some tinkering of our other players and our offense, we could and should still be right there. We need to start taking the regular season more seriously and making it easier for ourselves when we get to the Playoffs.

If we can swing a combination of Herro/Duncan/Rozier/Picks into better fitting pieces that work with what we're trying to do, I don't see why we can't make some noise.

I don't think that fetches much. The amount of good guards in the league makes trading high-quality players for that group much more complicated. Consider the guards who will be FA and will almost surely get significantly about as much or less than any of Miami's 3 guards while giving similar production to at least one of them:

Caleb Martin, Malik Monk, Gary Trent Jr, Evan Fournier, Immanuel Quickly, Klay Thompson, Lonny Walker, D'Angelo Russell, Buddy Hield, Malik Beasley, Spencer Dinwiddie, Gary Harris, and Gordon Hayward.

[SA37]

48 million dollar trade exception and 3 1st. Send him to Philly.

I'd be shocked if Riley traded Butler for a package like this.

[greg4012]

I think there have been plenty of issues voiced with overpaying midlevel players, both when the contracts were signed and throughout most of the life of them

[MettaWorldPanda]

Sript has been leaked

-Butler to 76ers for picks
-Mitchell to stay with Cavs with that supermax and will ask for a trade 2 years later
-LeBron to stay with LA and drafts Bronny
-Garland traded to Lakers for peanuts
-Klay to Magic
-Hayward to Heat

C Bam Adebayo C Ke’lel Ware
PF Niko Jovic PF Paul Reed
SF Jaime Jaquez Jr SF Gordon Hayward
SG Tyler Herro SG Duncan Robinson
PG Terry Rozier PG Isaiah Collier

Full boat of first rd picks to trade and massive trade exception.

[SA37]

Trade with OKC

SG Lu Dort
2024 12th pick
2025 1st rd pick Heat returned
2027 1st rd pick

Done deal. Lead those kids to a chip Jimmy.

This would be more interesting for Miami.

[MettaWorldPanda]

48 million dollar trade exception and 3 1st. Send him to Philly.

I'd be shocked if Riley traded Butler for a package like this.

Choices to trade Jimmy are going to be vastly limited. If not trading him then you better extend him.

[SA37]

Trade with Mama:

CJ McCollum
Larry Nance Jr.
2024 17th pick

Mama gets Jimmy & JAGsmith.

yuck.

[marson]

Sript has been leaked

-Butler to 76ers for picks
-Mitchell to stay with Cavs with that supermax and will ask for a trade 2 years later
-LeBron to stay with LA and drafts Bronny
-Garland traded to Lakers for peanuts
-Klay to Magic
-Hayward to Heat

Is Mitchell eligible for a supermax? I thought he wasn't.

You're right Greg, only a max. Thought he was All-NBA this year and his missed it by missing games played required.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Trade with OKC

SG Lu Dort
2024 12th pick
2025 1st rd pick Heat returned
2027 1st rd pick

Done deal. Lead those kids to a chip Jimmy.

This would be more interesting for Miami.

My favorite deal but after Presti’s recent comments about Hayward i’m not sure Butler is what they have in mind.

[Beenie]

If Mia elects to trade Jimmy, they would be wise to blow it up and trade Bam too.

The team not only would be a perpetual lottery team without Jimmy, their brand of basketball becomes even more of an unholy mess to watch.

Trade Bam to OKC and they might be able to fetch Jalen Williams in return along with a pick package.

Absolutely not. Bam is a Heat homegrown retirement fixture that’s going to lead the new young core. Let’s not act like we don’t have good young pieces to build around. Bam, Jovic, JJJ, Herro, and Rozier along with two first round picks this year coming off the bench until a star comes free will be a fun team for us to root for.

The poetic "homegrown" sentiment is rosey and all but the reality is that franchises that typically build their rosters around '3rd options' usually dont go very far.

[AirP.]

Give Jimmy the extension if Miami can somehow make the swing for an offensive upgrade this summer. If not, I don't think the cap hell and team building limitations for a player at the tail end of his career makes sense. When superstars decline, they don't just lose the magic that makes them, they just are able to summon it less and less frequently. I think we saw that happening last season.

If Miami can't swing a big trade for an offensive upgrade, then it's a sh**ty situation with Jimmy. Either let him play out the last season of his contract and choose whether he opts in or not (doubtful he would) or trade him.

I don't like the breakup, but it becomes the rational play.

When you have your 2 best players being good/great defenders who aren't bigtime scorers, maybe, just maybe the FO should be bringing in some offensive minded cheaper player vs cheap defensive players that you'd normally go for if you had a dominate scorer as one of your top 2 guys. Nunn for the price was a good offensive mostly player, Vincent did the job, Strus played above his paygrade but for whatever reason Miami doesn't really go out and acquire more low costing offensive talent and let them play a bigger offensive role in Miami than they'd get elsewhere. In recent memory both M.Monk and M.Beasley could have been great lowcost scorers for Miami yet instead Miami overpaid midlevel talent because they scored in Miami where their offensive roles were widened because of Butler and Bam.

I watched year after year in Chicago where they'd bring in a small offensive PG nobody else wanted and get some solid scoring out of, they basically saved DJ Augustine's career after he was released by 2 other teams that season Chicago picked him up (because of his size/defense) and got him to produce enough to get a good contract after that year, Nate Robinson was sitting at home after playing with GS and was one of the main reasons why Chicago got past a Brooklyn team they were given no chance against in the first round.

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