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Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#881 » by jpatrick » Thu Jun 6, 2024 12:13 am

shrink wrote:Ok, don’t shoot the messenger, but would you trade Naz Reid for the #5 pick?

There are a lot of personal reasons that a Naz trade is unlikely. I wrote a post for the T&T board about it:

shrink wrote:Okay Mamba - you’re on my list. Picture me as Steve Buscimi in Billy Madison.

Ok, seriously, the GM in me completely understands this. Thirteen months from now, MIN likely can’t afford to pay Naz what he deserves when he opts out, and his trade value on this year of low salary, to a team that CAN afford to keep him with Bird rights. He also isn’t a starter on the Wolves, and could be worth more to another team. This makes him a textbook trade candidate.

That said, I’ve been here long enough to learn these types of decisions aren’t 100% based on CBA math, and Naz is a perfect case for this. In fact, he is only on MIN now because Glen Taylor made an uncharacteristic intervention to get Connelly to raise his offer to keep him, and Naz Reid took less because he wanted to stay in MIN. This may have been the first time in franchise history a player took less to stay HERE, but he liked his teammates, and he wanted to repay MIN for taking a chance on him as a pudgy undrafted free agent. He is likely the second most popular player on the current team with fans, because his work ethic and competitiveness resonates with Minnesota values. A Naz Reid beach towel is a badge of honor.

I’d also point out that he is a big part of MIN’s advantage over other teams. The Wolves pound opponents’ bigs, challenging their size and picking up fouls. With Reid as sixth man, teams need 96 minutes of quality big man defense, which few teams can afford.

As a GM, I think a Naz trade makes lots of sense. But the NBA is entertainment, and the fans love Naz. I’m curious what offers this thread will draw, but I think the likely outcome is he plays one more year with the Wolves, and then, for the first time in his career, he gets paid what he’s worth as a free agent on another team.

But I wonder if the #5 would appeal to Tim Connelly? The deal has extra value to MIN because the pick has 4 years of team control, the lower price tag probably lets MIN stay under the second apron, and Connelly’s greatest GM strength is his ability to scout young talent. I’m no scout, so I can’t say what the #5 pick would be, four years from now, but to me, that’s a lot of value. Maybe Connelly would think so too?


I think that’s why this offseason is so important. These decisions need to be made now. We can talk about next year being a year we’re all-in, but we cannot completely think that way. Our best player is 22, if we so lock ourselves in, with no hope to improve in 3-4 years as Rudy/KAT age (losing Naz/NAW next offseason), Ant will ask out before the end of his current deal. He will not want to spend his prime on a middling team.

Regarding NAZ, we need a plan. He’ll be an unrestricted FA after this season, probably demanding 25-30m/year with the rising cap. He’ll also probably want to start. Will Rudy reduce his number enough that we can afford Naz? Even if he did, does Naz want to spend his prime coming off the bench? My gut says no to each. So, do we want to lose Naz for nothing (and maybe NAW too), which is the likely outcome without some trades, which can maybe wait to the deadline, but more value would be gotten now.

As for the #5, this is a crappy draft but if Connelly sees Sheppard, Topic, or Dillingham as future top 15 PG in the league, I think he might be interested. I think Sheppard might actually be pretty ideal as a fit next to Ant.

That said, it’s still most likely we just run it back and reassess at the trade deadline. Second most likely being a KAT deal if someone offers great value. But we shall see.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#882 » by Domejandro » Thu Jun 6, 2024 3:51 am

shrink wrote:Ok, don’t shoot the messenger, but would you trade Naz Reid for the #5 pick?

But I wonder if the #5 would appeal to Tim Connelly? The deal has extra value to MIN because the pick has 4 years of team control, the lower price tag probably lets MIN stay under the second apron, and Connelly’s greatest GM strength is his ability to scout young talent. I’m no scout, so I can’t say what the #5 pick would be, four years from now, but to me, that’s a lot of value. Maybe Connelly would think so too?

Even with this Draft being a disaster, not trading Naz Reid for #5 would be extreme malpractive by the Timberwolves front office. Unfortunately, there is a subzero chance that Detroit would ever consider that kind of trade.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#883 » by Domejandro » Thu Jun 6, 2024 3:53 am

I understand why people want to keep Naz Reid long-term, I would like to as well, but at some point there has to be some recognition that the dude is an absolute disaster defensively, for the most part. It is a serious problem, when projecting him as a serious piece to build around, moving forward.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#884 » by Klomp » Thu Jun 6, 2024 4:09 am

Domejandro wrote:
shrink wrote:Ok, don’t shoot the messenger, but would you trade Naz Reid for the #5 pick?

But I wonder if the #5 would appeal to Tim Connelly? The deal has extra value to MIN because the pick has 4 years of team control, the lower price tag probably lets MIN stay under the second apron, and Connelly’s greatest GM strength is his ability to scout young talent. I’m no scout, so I can’t say what the #5 pick would be, four years from now, but to me, that’s a lot of value. Maybe Connelly would think so too?

Even with this Draft being a disaster, not trading Naz Reid for #5 would be extreme malpractive by the Timberwolves front office. Unfortunately, there is a subzero chance that Detroit would ever consider that kind of trade.

I tend to agree, unless there is already a plan in place to immediately trade Towns.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#885 » by Neeva » Thu Jun 6, 2024 4:17 am

Naz played really good defense at times in the Denver series so he’s not a complete lost cause defensively.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#886 » by FrenchMinnyFan » Thu Jun 6, 2024 4:43 am

I think the situation for the game part is pretty simple. Can we win with this team?

If you answer yes you have to :

Get KAT healthy ( not sure)
Minimise Rudy flaws (lost cause)
Let ANT, Jaden and naw improved ( likely)
Pray for Mike staying healthy ( need better load management)
Naz has to improve on défense ( likely)
Slomo need to regain confidence in offense ( possible?)
Get a better option than Morris ( possible).

If I was the GM I would go for it next season. Trading KAT will probably not improve the team, Rudy value is not as good as people think.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#887 » by minimus » Thu Jun 6, 2024 7:21 am

FrenchMinnyFan wrote:Get a better option than Morris ( possible).


I think there is no better option than Morris on the market simply because we can resign him by using Bird Right. All other options are min. deal guys. Also Morris has been dealing with injuries and will likely improve simply by getting healthy and having full offseason to work on his game
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#888 » by minimus » Thu Jun 6, 2024 7:23 am

Domejandro wrote:I understand why people want to keep Naz Reid long-term, I would like to as well, but at some point there has to be some recognition that the dude is an absolute disaster defensively, for the most part. It is a serious problem, when projecting him as a serious piece to build around, moving forward.


You can workaround his weaknesses as defender within team defensive scheme.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#889 » by shangrila » Thu Jun 6, 2024 10:32 am

Domejandro wrote:I understand why people want to keep Naz Reid long-term, I would like to as well, but at some point there has to be some recognition that the dude is an absolute disaster defensively, for the most part. It is a serious problem, when projecting him as a serious piece to build around, moving forward.

"Absolute disaster defensively" is ridiculous hyperbole.

He's not great but he's not a trainwreck. And that is with the full understanding that he did suck in the Dallas series.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#890 » by BlacJacMac » Thu Jun 6, 2024 1:27 pm

Neeva wrote:Naz played really good defense at times in the Denver series so he’s not a complete lost cause defensively.


He makes splashy plays. A handful of really terrific blocks.

But he struggles with the routine. He misses rotations, he gets lost, etc.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#891 » by Domejandro » Thu Jun 6, 2024 7:09 pm

shangrila wrote:
Domejandro wrote:I understand why people want to keep Naz Reid long-term, I would like to as well, but at some point there has to be some recognition that the dude is an absolute disaster defensively, for the most part. It is a serious problem, when projecting him as a serious piece to build around, moving forward.

"Absolute disaster defensively" is ridiculous hyperbole.

He's not great but he's not a trainwreck. And that is with the full understanding that he did suck in the Dallas series.

It absolutely is not hyperbole, Minnesota's defensive rating against Dallas cratered by over twenty when Naz touched the court. :lol:

Naz has flashes of exciting individual defense, but he is legitimately really, really bad on that side of the court. Outside of Karl-Anthony Towns' power outage offensively (and Anthony Edwards playing poorly), the single biggest factor for Minnesota losing to Dallas was Naz Reid's defense. He was horrifyingly bad at helping the helper, their bigs feasted because he failed every single possession (outside of one, that I remember) to rotate when Rudy blitzed. It was probably the worst defensive performance I've seen from a big man, despite watching multiple defensive stalwarts like drop-coverage Karl-Anthony Towns, Kevin Love, and Al Jefferson.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#892 » by guest81 » Thu Jun 6, 2024 8:34 pm

Domejandro wrote:
shrink wrote:Ok, don’t shoot the messenger, but would you trade Naz Reid for the #5 pick?

But I wonder if the #5 would appeal to Tim Connelly? The deal has extra value to MIN because the pick has 4 years of team control, the lower price tag probably lets MIN stay under the second apron, and Connelly’s greatest GM strength is his ability to scout young talent. I’m no scout, so I can’t say what the #5 pick would be, four years from now, but to me, that’s a lot of value. Maybe Connelly would think so too?

Even with this Draft being a disaster, not trading Naz Reid for #5 would be extreme malpractive by the Timberwolves front office. Unfortunately, there is a subzero chance that Detroit would ever consider that kind of trade.


Naz is becoming severally underrated based on his bad playoff run
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#893 » by Domejandro » Thu Jun 6, 2024 8:42 pm

guest81 wrote:
Domejandro wrote:
shrink wrote:Ok, don’t shoot the messenger, but would you trade Naz Reid for the #5 pick?

But I wonder if the #5 would appeal to Tim Connelly? The deal has extra value to MIN because the pick has 4 years of team control, the lower price tag probably lets MIN stay under the second apron, and Connelly’s greatest GM strength is his ability to scout young talent. I’m no scout, so I can’t say what the #5 pick would be, four years from now, but to me, that’s a lot of value. Maybe Connelly would think so too?

Even with this Draft being a disaster, not trading Naz Reid for #5 would be extreme malpractive by the Timberwolves front office. Unfortunately, there is a subzero chance that Detroit would ever consider that kind of trade.


Naz is becoming severally underrated based on his bad playoff run

I like Naz, I think he is a good player who I would love to see stay in Minnesota. That said, I don't see any point in overlooking that the dude is really bad defensively. The hope is that he improves, but he has a long way to go before he becomes a positive impact defensive player.

Regardless, there is no world in which he is worth the #5 overall pick on an expiring 1+1 contract. That would be wild.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#894 » by Neeva » Thu Jun 6, 2024 9:18 pm

It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the guy detriot chooses at 5 is a bigger bust than James Wiseman.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#895 » by shangrila » Fri Jun 7, 2024 9:36 am

Domejandro wrote:
shangrila wrote:
Domejandro wrote:I understand why people want to keep Naz Reid long-term, I would like to as well, but at some point there has to be some recognition that the dude is an absolute disaster defensively, for the most part. It is a serious problem, when projecting him as a serious piece to build around, moving forward.

"Absolute disaster defensively" is ridiculous hyperbole.

He's not great but he's not a trainwreck. And that is with the full understanding that he did suck in the Dallas series.

It absolutely is not hyperbole, Minnesota's defensive rating against Dallas cratered by over twenty when Naz touched the court. :lol:

Naz has flashes of exciting individual defense, but he is legitimately really, really bad on that side of the court. Outside of Karl-Anthony Towns' power outage offensively (and Anthony Edwards playing poorly), the single biggest factor for Minnesota losing to Dallas was Naz Reid's defense. He was horrifyingly bad at helping the helper, their bigs feasted because he failed every single possession (outside of one, that I remember) to rotate when Rudy blitzed. It was probably the worst defensive performance I've seen from a big man, despite watching multiple defensive stalwarts like drop-coverage Karl-Anthony Towns, Kevin Love, and Al Jefferson.

I acknowledged the Dallas series. You need more than a 5 game sample size to make to make a blanket statement like that.

Or should we starting recognising that KAT can't shoot because he only hit 24% of his 3s against Dallas?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#896 » by shangrila » Fri Jun 7, 2024 9:38 am

Neeva wrote:It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the guy detriot chooses at 5 is a bigger bust than James Wiseman.

Depends on your expectation. This draft lacks high end talent so any idea that the 5th pick turns into a star should be tossed.

But if they took, say, Buzelis and he turned into prime Gallinari? That's a solid outcome in this draft.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#897 » by Norseman79 » Fri Jun 7, 2024 8:10 pm

Does Orlando take Towns for Suggs, Carter and 18?

MN clears some cap, adds a starting PG (yes I think Suggs can start next to Ant), back up 5, pick 18 to take Tyler Smith, AJ Johnson at 27, best scorer available at 37.

PG - Suggs, Conley, Johnson
SG - Ant, Naw
SF - McDaniels, Miller, Minott
PF - Naz, Smith
C - Rudy, Carter

Pick 37



Suggs,
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#898 » by cmoss84 » Fri Jun 7, 2024 8:17 pm

I'm going to be crucified eventually :o

We draft Bronny at 37. Trade KAT for LeBron.
Mike. ANT. Jaden. LeBron. Rudy.
NAW. NAZ. Jmac. Miller.
Draft a defensive big.
Nix and Minott.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#899 » by KATKlownFeet » Fri Jun 7, 2024 9:16 pm

cmoss84 wrote:I'm going to be crucified eventually :o

We draft Bronny at 37. Trade KAT for LeBron.
Mike. ANT. Jaden. LeBron. Rudy.
NAW. NAZ. Jmac. Miller.
Draft a defensive big.
Nix and Minott.


LeBron has another 20 years to play? Might as well throw in Ant and Jaden too.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!) 

Post#900 » by cmoss84 » Fri Jun 7, 2024 9:48 pm

Where did I say 20 years? LeBron probably go a other 2 or 3 with minute reductions. Lakers get a younger superstar for 5 years instead of losing James for nothing.
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