Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[Klomp]

The second apron limits the flexibility of teams to make deals that add money, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility to trade completely. I wonder if it's possible you could see some of these teams working "together" on deals that could help out both teams, as it might be one of the easiest ways to financially do a deal while over the second apron.

How can this be possible? All second apron teams likely have players with supermax contracts, some of which could have been signed in the same offseason. The beauty of the supermax in this context is that money doesn't need to be aggregated on either side because the contracts are identical in the first year at 35% of the salary cap.

There is one particular team in a precarious position because they are likely over the second apron at this point as a team that has topped out with a first round exit at best in each of the last three years, but one of their max players has the ability (and has been rumored) to opt out of his current contract and sign a new deal elsewhere. They should be looking to make a move, but there are only so many moves they can make.

Karl-Anthony Towns for Kawhi Leonard

Towns is good friends with Paul George, who has the opt-out in his contract. The two of them have complementary skill sets, and the Clippers don't really have much standing in Towns' way at C or PF. He also provides intrigue as a "younger star" compared to Leonard, with "upside" possible.

In terms of the defensive identity Connelly and Finch are building in Minnesota, Leonard is obviously a perfect fit. He has thrived in small markets before and would likely be willing to do it again. He can get his own shot whenever, and could probably be a good mentor for both Edwards and McDaniels. And while his extension starts at the same dollar amount as Towns, the raises are smaller, which means cap savings of approximately $3 million in 2025-26 and approximately $7 million in 2026-27.

[Klomp]

I keep going back to a New York offer knowing that it will never be the sexiest offer on the table, but it easily could represent the correct DNA for what this franchise's culture is both now and in the near future. Josh Hart is a perfect example as an incredible glue guy. Over the last four seasons, he averages 7.9 rebounds per game as a guy who stands roughly the size of Anthony Edwards. I would also add that he's another guy who has been connected to Chris Finch in the past.

While I am watching Finals I have noticed how physical both Holiday and White are. This is something that Conley brought here, and this was first thing many have mentioned as difference between DLo and Conley. Conley (when he is healthy) gives 100% effort. Also this was first thing that I noticed when Conley was injured in playoffs.

Also physicality is somehow underrated IMO, with some many wings playing in post, so many guards setting good screens (I did not know that Curry is one of the best at setting off ball screens), your team MUST be physical at all five positions, it cant be only bigmen how fights for rebounds, it can be only bigs how set good screens, it cant be only bigs who punishes smaller guys and score in post.

2023-24 was a year of improved mental toughness, but I think it showed there is also a need for improved physical toughness

[BlacJacMac]

The second apron limits the flexibility of teams to make deals that add money, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility to trade completely. I wonder if it's possible you could see some of these teams working "together" on deals that could help out both teams, as it might be one of the easiest ways to financially do a deal while over the second apron.

How can this be possible? All second apron teams likely have players with supermax contracts, some of which could have been signed in the same offseason. The beauty of the supermax in this context is that money doesn't need to be aggregated on either side because the contracts are identical in the first year at 35% of the salary cap.

There is one particular team in a precarious position because they are likely over the second apron at this point as a team that has topped out with a first round exit at best in each of the last three years, but one of their max players has the ability (and has been rumored) to opt out of his current contract and sign a new deal elsewhere. They should be looking to make a move, but there are only so many moves they can make.

Karl-Anthony Towns for Kawhi Leonard

Towns is good friends with Paul George, who has the opt-out in his contract. The two of them have complementary skill sets, and the Clippers don't really have much standing in Towns' way at C or PF. He also provides intrigue as a "younger star" compared to Leonard, with "upside" possible.

In terms of the defensive identity Connelly and Finch are building in Minnesota, Leonard is obviously a perfect fit. He has thrived in small markets before and would likely be willing to do it again. He can get his own shot whenever, and could probably be a good mentor for both Edwards and McDaniels. And while his extension starts at the same dollar amount as Towns, the raises are smaller, which means cap savings of approximately $3 million in 2025-26 and approximately $7 million in 2026-27.

I would love this if I thought there was any chance of Kawhi staying healthy. But there likely isn't. I love that he played 68 games this year. Its the most he's played since 2016 (by a lot) and the 3rd most he's ever played.

But he's been very unavailable for the Playoffs the past 4 years.

2021: Played in 11 Games, then Missed their final 8.
2022: Missed the season.
2023: Played 2 Games, Missed the final 3.
2024: Missed the 1st Game, Played 2 Games, Missed the final 3.

I'm also not so sure he'd be "willing" to play in a smaller market again. He sat out a season to get out of San Antonio and couldn't wait to bail on Toronto after winning a title.

[Klomp]

I would love this if I thought there was any chance of Kawhi staying healthy. But there likely isn't. I love that he played 68 games this year. Its the most he's played since 2016 (by a lot) and the 3rd most he's ever played.

But he's been very unavailable for the Playoffs the past 4 years.

2021: Played in 11 Games, then Missed their final 8.
2022: Missed the season.
2023: Played 2 Games, Missed the final 3.
2024: Missed the 1st Game, Played 2 Games, Missed the final 3.

While not a perfect comparison because you just never know, there were similar fears around trading for Mike Conley who has been very durable. I think it comes down to if you think teams "protecting" their high-priced assets by resting them is actually hurting them more than helping.

[BlacJacMac]

I would love this if I thought there was any chance of Kawhi staying healthy. But there likely isn't. I love that he played 68 games this year. Its the most he's played since 2016 (by a lot) and the 3rd most he's ever played.

But he's been very unavailable for the Playoffs the past 4 years.

2021: Played in 11 Games, then Missed their final 8.
2022: Missed the season.
2023: Played 2 Games, Missed the final 3.
2024: Missed the 1st Game, Played 2 Games, Missed the final 3.

While not a perfect comparison because you just never know, there were similar fears around trading for Mike Conley who has been very durable. I think it comes down to if you think teams "protecting" their high-priced assets by resting them is actually hurting them more than helping.

We also got Conley for a player that we would've done anything to get rid of. That he played as well as he did just makes the deal that much better.

Leonard has had 2 surgeries on his right knee in the past 4 years. And a year after having surgery on his torn meniscus (with an 8 week recovery estimate), he's still having significant problems with it.

[shrink]

The second apron limits the flexibility of teams to make deals that add money, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility to trade completely. I wonder if it's possible you could see some of these teams working "together" on deals that could help out both teams, as it might be one of the easiest ways to financially do a deal while over the second apron.

How can this be possible? All second apron teams likely have players with supermax contracts, some of which could have been signed in the same offseason. The beauty of the supermax in this context is that money doesn't need to be aggregated on either side because the contracts are identical in the first year at 35% of the salary cap.

This is the most interesting financial idea I’ve heard in a long time.

If there is a valuation difference (not sure there is), picks can be included that don’t carry any amount for salary concerns.

[Sealab2024]

I'm pretty sure the ownership issue will keep this team from making any huge deals that alter the salary structure in any major way. At least until we figure out whos going to get the team going forward.

On that premise I think we have to look at fringe with upside guys. Someone like Sasha Vezenkov might be a valuable scorer off the bench and has the kind of IQ to replace some of what SloMo could do insofar as running the second unit.

[Klomp]

The second apron limits the flexibility of teams to make deals that add money, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility to trade completely. I wonder if it's possible you could see some of these teams working "together" on deals that could help out both teams, as it might be one of the easiest ways to financially do a deal while over the second apron.

How can this be possible? All second apron teams likely have players with supermax contracts, some of which could have been signed in the same offseason. The beauty of the supermax in this context is that money doesn't need to be aggregated on either side because the contracts are identical in the first year at 35% of the salary cap.

This is the most interesting financial idea I’ve heard in a long time.

If there is a valuation difference (not sure there is), picks can be included that don’t carry any amount for salary concerns.

I guess the 35% list isn't as long as I remembered it to be.

Kawhi Leonard
Devin Booker
Jaylen Brown

Brown is probably the least likely to be moved now, which is a complete reversal from a year ago. Both the Suns and Clippers could look to change things up, but I think Leonard would be just a little more likely if it was something to be broached.

[shrink]

I wanted to mention that MIN has a $4 mil traded player exception generated from the Monte Morris trade in February. Normally TPE’s last for one year, but any team over the first apron loses all TPE’s generated the previous year.

While new rules will allow teams to use TPE’s to sign free agents, free agency will not open until next year. Trading is still open, and MIN could trade for a player making $4 mil or less, on his current deal, and guaranteed money in 2024. It’s painful to add salary because of additional lux taxes, but it would be a vehicle to maintain salary when we won’t be able to use the taxpayer MLE next year since we’re over the second apron. I don’t believe a trade at this point is included in salary cap or luxury tax bill calculations - they are set on the final day of the regular season.

So is there anyone out there for $4 mil or less that could be so valuable Connelly may eat more tax for him?

[Sealab2024]

I wanted to mention that MIN has a $4 mil traded player exception generated from the Monte Morris trade in February. Normally TPE’s last for one year, but any team over the first apron loses all TPE’s generated the previous year.

While new rules will allow teams to use TPE’s to sign free agents, free agency will not open until next year. Trading is still open, and MIN could trade for a player making $4 mil or less, on his current deal, and guaranteed money in 2024. It’s painful to add salary because of additional lux taxes, but it would be a vehicle to maintain salary when we won’t be able to use the taxpayer MLE next year since we’re over the second apron. I don’t believe a trade at this point is included in salary cap or luxury tax bill calculations - they are set on the final day of the regular season.

So is there anyone out there for $4 mil or less that could be so valuable Connelly may eat more tax for him?

I did a quick check. Guys like

Seth Curry
Precious Aciuwa
Spencer Dinwiddie
Simone Fonteccio
Keta Bates-Diop.

Those kinds of guys fit at 4 million or under next year.

[Norseman79]

If...IF... Kat is traded, I'm expecting a point guard and young front court player at minimum coming back... potentially coupled with picks depending on players. I could easily see it having to be a 3 team type of trade to check all boxes.

Do we really need more young players? I understand that we need players on rookie deals, I mean bargain deal, but our core Edwards-McDaniels-Reid-NAW is young enough. I'd love to get someone like Jalen Johnson or Nembhard but it's more exception than normal because teams really value such guys. At this point I am happy to split Towns supermax contract into smaller contracts: read 25-30yo players who have enough experience and understanding of their roles, strength and weaknesses. Plus picks.

Define young? I was thinking developmental 4/5 to stash until Rudy leaves but can add depth right now. People disagree but I would take a Jabari Smith type in that type of package over a Thaddeus Young. Again, we have veterans and Ant, McDaniels and Naz aren't rookies. They are big money players with 3 consecutive playoff appearances. Plus Rudy and Mike, always keep restocking.

[shrink]

The second apron limits the flexibility of teams to make deals that add money, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility to trade completely. I wonder if it's possible you could see some of these teams working "together" on deals that could help out both teams, as it might be one of the easiest ways to financially do a deal while over the second apron.

How can this be possible? All second apron teams likely have players with supermax contracts, some of which could have been signed in the same offseason. The beauty of the supermax in this context is that money doesn't need to be aggregated on either side because the contracts are identical in the first year at 35% of the salary cap.

This is the most interesting financial idea I’ve heard in a long time.

If there is a valuation difference (not sure there is), picks can be included that don’t carry any amount for salary concerns.

I guess the 35% list isn't as long as I remembered it to be.

Kawhi Leonard
Devin Booker
Jaylen Brown

Brown is probably the least likely to be moved now, which is a complete reversal from a year ago. Both the Suns and Clippers could look to change things up, but I think Leonard would be just a little more likely if it was something to be broached.

I wonder if you posted a version of this on the trade board with the names of the four identical salaries, whether it would spark trade ideas?

[Norseman79]

In a few in places now I have seen the idea of Towns being traded for Ingram. My issue with the move is Ingram is expiring.

The last proposal I read was Towns for Ingram, Nance and a 1rst.

Is the appeal of Ingram simply to have another scorer? If the answer to that is yes, I'm going to be giving up Towns, wouldn't it make sense to trade for someone not expiring?

Now, I look at things differently than some. For example in talking about trades, I try to think of rotations:

MN out: Towns, NAW, Minott, Moore, Miller, 27
In: Murray, Ingram, 21

ATL out: Murray
In: NAW, Jones, Miller, 27

Pels out: Ingram, Jones, 21
In: Towns, Moore, Minott

I like Dejuante Murray the player, not person. A backcourt rotation of Conley Jr, Edwards and Murray works great while developing a rookie PG and seeing what Clark looks like as a pro. A forward rotation of McDaniels, Reid, and Ingram is interesting but doesn't seem as good of a fit to me, but what do I know. Reid would likely also play some C.

PG: Murray, Conley Jr, ????
SG: Edwards, Clark
SF: McDaniels, ???
PF: Ingram, Reid
C: Gobert, ???

If everyone stays healthy, it's an interesting mix. Still would need rookies and vet minimums to fill out roster. But as a top 8, that is solid. I wouldn't do this trade personally, and I am not in favor of Towns for Ingram overall. Just spit ballin for conversation

[BlacJacMac]

I just don't like Ingram.

Super talented, doesn't always show up. Was an absolute disaster in the Playoffs this year.

[moss_is_1]

Hawks would be the ideal trading partner. Hopefully they get desperate to pair Trae with another star. Maybe a team gets crazy about someone at #1, the Hawks trade #1 for a 3rd guy as well.

Getting Murray, Bogdanovic or Johnson(dreaming), with some sort of picks for Towns would be a homerun for me.

[DaMplsKid]

Two Towns trades I've been kicking around.

Min: Towns
Orl: Suggs Magner #18

We get a younger PG who plays hard on both ends of the court, a young upcoming wing and a 1st rnd pick.

Orl get an all star big to pair with their star stud Banchero

(not sure how to make the salaries work but that why Connelly make the big money)

Idea #2:
Min: Towns, Moore, Minott
Por: Simons, Brogdon # 7( or whatever pick we want maybe an unprotected future 1st)

We get a 3pt shooting electric scoring bench 6th man in Simons and a very solid two way playing PG.

Not the sexiest traded but we get Towns soft ass off the team.

[Norseman79]

Two Towns trades I've been kicking around.

Min: Towns
Orl: Suggs Magner #18

We get a younger PG who plays hard on both ends of the court, a young upcoming wing and a 1st rnd pick.

Orl get an all star big to pair with their star stud Banchero

(not sure how to make the salaries work but that why Connelly make the big money)

Idea #2:
Min: Towns, Moore, Minott
Por: Simons, Brogdon # 7( or whatever pick we want maybe an unprotected future 1st)

We get a 3pt shooting electric scoring bench 6th man in Simons and a very solid two way playing PG.

Not the sexiest traded but we get Towns soft ass off the team.

The Orlando trade works if you take out Wagner and put in Carter. I can't see Orlando giving up Wagner unless you mean the brother who is the backup center. Sugs and Carter plus the 18 would do the trick.

The Portland trade, I like the idea. I would go for Williams over Brogdon and then a pick or two .... Say we send 27, they send 14 and one of their 2029 1rsts.

[Note30]

You don't trade Towns unless you get better. Plain and simple, if you wanted to trade him the time was two years ago before we acquired Goberts bloated ass contract.

[Norseman79]

You don't trade Towns unless you get better. Plain and simple, if you wanted to trade him the time was two years ago before we acquired Goberts bloated ass contract.

Which lineup is better

PG Murray
SG Edwards
SF McDaniels
PF Reid (if different starter is acquired)
C. Gobert

Or

PG Conley Jr
SG Edwards
SF McDaniels
PF Towns
C. Gobert

I don't disagree with your statement, just curious how you see "better"

[Colbinii]

Two Towns trades I've been kicking around.

Min: Towns
Orl: Suggs Magner #18

We get a younger PG who plays hard on both ends of the court, a young upcoming wing and a 1st rnd pick.

Orl get an all star big to pair with their star stud Banchero

(not sure how to make the salaries work but that why Connelly make the big money)

There is no chance Orlando trades their 2nd and 3rd more valuable young guys, still on rookie deals, for Towns.

Idea #2:
Min: Towns, Moore, Minott
Por: Simons, Brogdon # 7( or whatever pick we want maybe an unprotected future 1st)

We get super small all of a sudden? No front-court depth, no back-up Center. We have a back-court rotation with Simons/Brogdon/Conley Jr all demanding 25-33 MPG, forcing ANT to the 3 and McDaniels to the 4 to make the minutes work?