Ghost of Kleine wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:
I think that you might be misunderstanding my valuation/ assessments of our team man. Because although you might be viewing it as a form of criticism or with a lens of futility or a defeatist perspective, I'm not actually doing that at all, rather I'm making the very accurate although maybe also perceivably unpleasant or unfavorable (to us comparison between the two more as a barometer of where w need to strive to improve in some areas AND CAN IF WE CHOOSE TO in spite of hasty or impulse-driven decisions that have left us in this very disadvantageous condition we're currently experiencing. Sure we're different from other teams with our style of play AND we have our own strengths and weaknesses just as every other team does, but the comparison is both legitimate and important as it illustrates the mechanisms for higher levels of sustainable success that we've repeatedly overlooked that have paid off quite well for that team when ours has repeatedly yielded much lesser promising results.
You say that we're going to play the way that maximizes Suns players! But given our results obviously falling significantly short in the postseason and more so in the playoffs in the form of a demoralizing sweep in the first round, can you really argue that our strategy has done that at all? You speak of me pointing out our gaps and/or weaknesses as being defeatist while also dismissing the similarities w apparently have to the supposed championship team in the Celtics.
But you don't improve by ignoring your weaknesses and celebrating failures or mediocrity. If you want to be an apex team and reach the pinnacle which is obviously a very rare achievement in of itself, you have to constantly hold yourself to a higher competitive standard that consistently seeks excellence in all aspects/areas of your team. Can you honestly argue that our franchise has done that or vn come close to trying to achieve that strategy? Because clearly, we have not in comparison to most other teams. My assessments come from a place of holding our team to a much higher standard because that's what it actually takes to become the best and win a championship! Our team/ front office however has repeatedly chosen to undercut themselves in multiple available aspects:
-Choosing to ignore free agencys' better available options in the interest of sitting idly by to only later scramble and sign much lesser cast-off minimum options and leftover scraps off the free agency scrap heap.
- Ignoring/minimizing the draft's ability to add young, energizing, cost-controlled talent depth as a mechanism for adding legitimate depth pieces, desirable trade assets, or even talented young players with specific supplemental skillsets that'd clearly benefit our core and help sustain our competitive interests much better than mostly washed bottom tier aging options that have repeatedly underperformed in their roles, but whom we keep pursuing over the obvious better options.
- horrible asset management such as bidding against ourselves in contract negotiations and overpaying for mediocrity well before market value has even been established for players (Shamet contract).
- Not developing players with clear talents and skillsets that distinctly address our weaknesses that are limiting our trajectory.
- Not adding obvious positional depth pieces that directly relate to our obvious weaknesses that are perennially exploited leading to our annual shortcomings well below our stated goals.
- Unnecessarily giving up excess assets in trades to either to ironically get back players we gave up early on, or in really poor/weak negotiating practices wherein we're bidding against ourselves with literally no other stats or legitimate competition.
- Operating constantly from a position of reactivity and absence of hindsight as opposed to being proactive and actually displaying the ability to formulate a legitimate plan, etc.
giving away/trading players at positions of clear need without having any clear plan in place to fill those "gaps" or weaknesses. And then just sitting on the few corresponding assets returned in those trades (Cam Payne TPE- 6 million we just let expire unused). Or even the 2nds and fillers used by NY in the eventual trades for Anunoby or Siakim are other examples of types of trades we had the capability to pursue but ignored.
You see man, our franchise for decades now has been creatively finding ways to undercut ourselves either ignoring the available mechanisms available to us for improvement or even competitive sustainability that more legitimate championship-tiered franchises utilize properly and consistently. Our franchise repeatedly makes low-level decisions in free agency pursuing garbage or low-impact options or not addressing key depth areas while other franchises actually go out and fill or address those areas of concern responsibly. Our franchise chooses to repeatedly pursue slow, small, unathletic older inconsistent players who are really only available at those lower costs by obvious virtue of their well-established minimal impact or glaring inconsistencies. Top-tier franchises seek to fully maximize ALL AVAILABLE MECHANISMS available to them to consistently strengthen their team and shore up their weaknesses. W, on the other hand, do the inverse and then fall short as those areas we've repeatedly ignored are systematically exploited and we perennially get sent home only to watch other teams realize and celebrate the very desired outcomes and stated goals that we had for our team but fell short yet again, as w annually go through the 4 stages of grief and constantly rationalize our shortcomings year after year, and delude ourselves with ideas of things being better "next year IF we only" which of course we never fully do, and the process plays out "rinse and repeat."
I'm always looking to improve or strengthen our team in those unaddressed areas of weakness however possible as evidenced by my relentless pursuit of improvement through trades or draft postulation that theoretically return the very attributes or talents/ skillsets that our team perennially ignores or outright lacks and willingly ignores that year after year that results in our eventual annual collapses. I'd argue that doesn't speak to a "defeatist attitude at all! But rather a "never say die" relentless pursuit of continual excellence, improvement, or evolution necessary to sustain competitive ascension in a league that it evolving while we're choosing to go in the opposite direction by virtue of some "buck the trend" strategy that has clearly not worked out for us at all.
You speak of similarities we have to Boston that we can build and focus upon man. But honestly, aside from having a few "star players" too (but not really as many), what distinct similarities do we really have that you can make a legitimate comparison for aside from that singular distinction of 3-star players??
Boston has
- At least 5 all-star players or players that could be considered all-stars.
- Boston has significantly more size and elite athletes throughout their roster.
- Boston has immense roster depth throughout the entirety of it's roster.
- Boston has multiple high-end to elite defenders at various positions on their roster.
- Boston has a nearly perfectly balanced and well-constructed roster with players that ideally complement one another without "one-way" overlap.
- Boston has a clear and consistent identifiable identity that they embody that correlates to their success.
- Boston has a strong and consistent culture that has yielded 10 championships to their city.
- Boston is/has been a legitimate free agent destination due to their well-established culture.
- Boston has consistently operated as a team unit with every player playing their roles in support of one another which has allowed them to experience such long-term success and dominance compared to other teams.
Phoenix has
- 3 Three stars who are either aging, inconsistent, or redundant and don't really complement or support each other positionally.
- Phoenix has a roster of undersized, unathletic, passive, finesse-oriented, mentally fragile, mismatched groups of one-way low-tier options that have no grit or intestinal fortitude.
-Phoenix has no legitimate roster depth as clearly evidenced by our bench offering the worst-recorded production last season, AND our aging, injury-prone "big three" having to play extensively heavy minutes throughout the entire season which very predictably led to early exhaustion and increasing inefficiency/inconsistencies throughout games, etc.
- Phoenix has no legitimate really good to high-end or elite high-end defenders, aside from maybe a 35 yr old Durant whom we've been forced to desperately rely on to somehow be our defensive anchor by virtue of having no other legitimately dependable options on our roster.
- Phoenix has no legitimate roster balance, only "one-way" players with overlapping skill sets that are pretty redundant and don't fit one another or complement our goals. Those players are also bottom-tier contributory cast-off options that can't be depended upon when it matters, which is why they were available at such a low cost to begin with.
- Phoenix has no clear identity aside from maybe a mismatched patchwork roster of redundant players that are undersized, unathletic, mentally and physically soft, and fold and quit whenever pressure is placed upon them. Our identity is that of a soft, small, passive finesse team that must overachieve/have outlier performances just in order to be able to compete in a league that is widely embracing the opposite of those attributes.
- Phoenix's culture is only that of a constant revolving door of coaches, players, ever-changing roster filled with inconsistencies, further marred by very poor front-office decisions, and a soft/ fragile culture that has only yielded multiple historically embarrassing collapses maybe one trip to the finals every 30 years, and absolutely ZERO championships in over 56 years despite being the 5th winningest franchise in NBA history to never win one.
- Phoenix has perennially touted being a desirable free-agent destination but clearly has not at all been that in decades now, aside from maybe overpaying for Crowder to get him to come here, and signing mostly washed cast-off/retread players in the twilight/decline of their careers.
- Phoenix doesn't operate as a team, we have a hodgepodge of mismatched, misfit, cast-off players that have redundant skillsets, don't really know how to play together, And are being asked to play well beyond their established capabilities/ skillsets, and too often out of natural position too. And when they predictably struggle due to these unrealistic expectations, our team descends into some low-end playground-style iso ball scheme.
So aside from having maybe three high-end star talent from our "big three" I'm not really seeing any legitimate similarities that you're suggesting between our teams. And quite clearly the vast disparity between competitive results/outcomes between our two teams only further illustrates this. Now again, to be clear, I'm not at all employing a defeatist attitude or mentality of futility in this assessment. Rather a much-needed sober and accurate in-depth evaluation of the many areas we absolutely do need/ and can improve upon with better choices/ decisions made in order to ascend to that next tier of LEGITIMATE CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION and abandoning our reputation as "perennial pretenders" instead. I'm aggressive in my views and perspective because I do actually believe we can achieve this ascension/ improvements. BUT the first and most important step for us is accurately identifying our problems/ weaknesses. Because you can't fix your problems by continually ignoring or pretending they don't exist!
Your assessment is entirely negative. Reading this and your previous post would make anyone think you're talking about the Pistons or something, not a team that despite having injury issues all season long, won 49 games. Seriously, not a single positive comment
My apologies man! Our offensive potential is great, at times even clearly elite! We have 3-star players, we have a solid physical center who plays his role well. We have Grayson Allen who outplayed our expectations and became the best three-point shooter in the entire NBA. Now those are all positive things we can focus on! Feel any better? We also won 49 games too! Was winning 49 games and being first-round exit our stated goal at the beginning of the season, was winning 49 games and getting swept the goal behind adding KD, Beal, trading away all of our assets and flexibility for the coming 7-8 yrs? Was creating a top 3 superteam facsimile that's top-heavy with 3 players eating up 90% of our available cap flexibility part of our stated goals? Was our ultimate goal behind all of this to finish with 49 wins and a 6th-seeded first-round exit in a very truncated maybe two-year window in which we significantly mortgaged our future? Was our season fun and entertaining to watch .......like at all?
Sure there are reasons to be positive man, and winning 49 games with three HOF players (two of which should be considered top 10) is a nice consolation prize I suppose? But I'm focused on our team becoming the very best version of itself and maybe actually realizing its STATED GOALS of winning a championship before a full century passes! I'm only being a realist in focusing on the very real and legitimate areas that our team MUST ACTUALLY ADDRESS at some point if we truly intend to break the cycle of mediocrity and diminished outcomes. But I'm also a positive guy too man, even if it doesn't appear so! For instance, I'm positive that we're not a legitimate contender as constructed. I'm positive that we're too undersized and athletic to legitimately make a deep playoff run. I'm positive that IF we just keep continuing to ignore our unaddressed issues, then our rebuild will come a lot sooner than anyone anticipates, and not as a planned outcome either! But you may be happy to know that I am absolutely positive that our team CAN IMPROVE! and experience MUCH GREATER SUCCESS! and have a much more exciting and engaging season IF we only decide to make the necessary upgrades and changes to our strategy we've been employing for the past number of years unsuccessfully. We have a promising foundation to build off of! But it won't build itself, we have to remain assertive and creative! Of these things, I'm very positive man!
Ultimately, we want the same thing for this team. I'm not ignorant of some fundamental flaws we have nor other less fundamental weaknesses which may be easier to address.
My original post with the youtube clip was to point to some similarities that makes the Celtics so good which I believe we have some of the pieces to emulate. Not exactly because JB isn't Book, JT isn't KD and Jrue isn't Beal. But the Dynasty Spurs isn't the Dynasty Lakers or Dynasty Bulls either. Just like the Celtics aren't the Nuggets of last season or the Warriors of the season before. You can win in different ways without having being exactly the team that just won. But if we played a similar way, good ball movement, having a stretch big to bring their rim protection out of the paint, getting the switch onto the pigeons and having shooter spread out, I believe we can do much of that at varying degrees. I believe we can progress on our stated goals while being cognisant of our weaknesses AND our strengths and it's not just a matter of "We're not the Celtics"
