Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[MalagaBulls]

This trade also just absolutely solidified the living **** out of the fact that Vuc needs to either be gone this summer or in a significantly reduced role.

This was already the case but is heavily amplified now due to the defensive downgrade that the trade results in. And I see Giddey finding open shooters, cutters and lob guys much more than I see him finding Vuc for a 40% post up attempt.

Giddey and Vuc could coexist and maybe be effective for 15 mpg off the bench if they are flanked by 3 outright good defenders only.

Vuc + sweetner for Capela?

[PlayerUp]

while Chicago characteristically pushed for unprotected picks and as many as four firsts in some of those conversations. Chicago also refused to include Caruso in deals that would have offloaded Zach LaVine, sources said.

Key notes here:

- No team was willing to give 4 protected 1st Rd Picks for Caruso
- No team was willing to give an unprotected 1st Rd Pick for Caruso

That's a superstar type value trade.

I'm sure a team was willing to give 2 protected 1st Rd Picks for Caruso.

Not attaching Caruso to offload Lavine was the right decision.

[TheSuzerain]

Here is Chicago's roster as of right now:
PG White / Ayo / Giddey / Ball / Carter
SG Lavine
SF Phillips / Terry
PF Williams / Craig
C Vucevic

That's some top tier team building there.

.....

One thing I haven't really heard discussed much is that Giddey is probably not as good as White and Ayo. Giddey isn't an off ball guy.

While he is an intriguing prospect due to his age, this team is a hot mess personnel wise.

Giddey is a significantly better prospect than Ayo. Potentially White as well in terms of ceiling.

The whole point of a Giddey is you play him at the 3, and b/c he can handle more playmaking responsibilities than most 3s, you get to enjoy playing a utility guard(s) in your backcourt (e.g. Jrue, D. White, Caruso, Bruce Brown, potentially Ayo, Devin Carter, etc.). This seemingly has a rather large uplift in terms of team defense/rebounding if you have a backcourt who chips in there.

[TheSuzerain]

Ayo
White
Giddey
PWill
Big

+ whatever we can get for Lavine + Demar.

We should try to be awful next year and rise from there. We basically need to wait for Vuc and Lonzo's contract to run out anyway.

[Sinistar6]

Adding for data:

Sporting News calls the trade “disastrous” for the bulls- D= trade grade.

[DASMACKDOWN]

17 8 6 in Giddey’s Soph season.

My guess is 18 8 8 next season for the Bulls.

+1

People are crying like we just traded for Killian Hayes.

[Jcool0]

17 8 6 in Giddey’s Soph season.

My guess is 18 8 8 next season for the Bulls.

I expect Coby to be 20+ppg and Ayo 18ppg.
If Pat can stay healthy and put it together I could see 16ppg.

That would be unexpected

[kodo]

I'm sure a team was willing to give 2 protected 1st Rd Picks for Caruso.

Huge caveat...18 months ago. When he had plenty left on his super cheap deal.

Gottlieb reported that Caruso's value severely tanked when the Bulls decided to keep Caruso after the trade deadline and halved the # of playoffs AC is available from 2 to just 1.

And people can't blame AK...everyone here was drinking the Bulls Kool-Aid about how great we were after the bad start and during Coby's hot streak. At some point the board felt we could possibly nab 4th-6th seed, which wouldn't have been possible without AC. 4th - 7th were only one W apart. Keeping AC at the deadline was the majority view from what I remember.

[Jcool0]

Adding for data:

Sporting News calls the trade “disastrous” for the bulls- D= trade score.

Sporting News still exists? Thought they went out of business.

[TheSuzerain]

The only legit concern I have is featured Giddey in Chicago fills the stat sheet in a big way on a bad team just in time for him to get overpaid significantly.

Although if we're just on the precipice of major cap jumps, it might be alright in the medium/long run.

[TheJordanRule]

Here is Chicago's roster as of right now:
PG White / Ayo / Giddey / Ball / Carter
SG Lavine
SF Phillips / Terry
PF Williams / Craig
C Vucevic

That's some top tier team building there.

.....

One thing I haven't really heard discussed much is that Giddey is probably not as good as White and Ayo. Giddey isn't an off ball guy.

While he is an intriguing prospect due to his age, this team is a hot mess personnel wise.

Ayo's more a SG than a PG IMO. He's not a pure passer, and he's definitely sized as a SG and has the defensive capability to defend 1-3. He can play SG, but if he keeps up his open 3 point shooting, he's a really good fit next to Giddey. Coby shoots way better off ball than on ball, so I don't think it's a huge problem to play him next to Giddey either, though the defensive pairing there is certainly more dicey, and Giddey's 6'8, so you can hide him on a bigger but less athletic guys the other team often trots out there, and he can keep them off the glass / defend the three point line.

That said, I agree that the Bulls roster is a mess, but it's primarily a mess if they bring back Vuc and DeRozan, those two guys do not fit around someone like Giddey at all, you can't have three non shooters out there, and it's obvious those guys don't fit the timeline.

If we could somehow flip DeRozan and Vuc into a really good defensive center, and a 3&D wing then keep Zach, then the Bulls would be really intriguing with Giddey setting everyone up and and a defensive stopper behind them, but that's probably a tall order.

Relative to Coby and Ayo, I think Coby might be the most overrated Bull I've seen. He had one super hot month where he shot like 60% from three and people started thinking star potential when it was obvious he would not keep that up because Steph Curry couldn't keep that up, and outside of that, he went back to being what looks like a bench gunner to me. Still only a moderate efficiency scorer with limited passing vision and defensive ability. Giddey has different flaws, but more talent IMO. If Giddey can actually learn to shoot, his upside would destroy any reasonable improvement you could project onto Coby or Ayo.

Of the three Ayo has the highest floor and is the most versatile, he's a legit NBA multi-position defender, and looks like a capable open 3 point shooter with decent ball handling skills and some creation. Ayo's going to be a valuable guy in the league for the next 15 years that can fit onto literally any team, because every team will need what he does given he might have the two most important strengths, and no meaningful weaknesses, but he also likely has the lowest ceiling.

Coby/Giddey are guys that will also likely have long careers and have more potential to make a larger impact, but they will be niche fits because they have important flaws that are unlikely to be corrected and will only make that larger impact if put in the right situation and will be less valuable in a generic situation.

The Bulls need to be thoughtful about how they build their team with guys like Coby/Giddey and that's certainly more complicated and difficult.

I think Coby is about as "meh" as you can get. Really not a needle mover unless he is super hot.

I just don't think that much of Giddey though. Can't shoot. Can't defend.

That said, he is just 21. This is a flyer. I get it. Maybe it works out well for the team. This is what the start of a rebuild looks like.

Realistically, the fundamental problem for a rebuild is that the Bulls have is that no one on the roster even projects as a top tier player. Giddey / Coby / Ayo / Williams are all 2nd and 3rd tier guys at best. I don't even see a path for getting one outside of huge lottery luck.

Overall this trade is disappointing emotionally because I liked Caruso. Logically it makes sense but as soon as logic walks in the room and looks at the Bulls, he says "this . . . is not good." As such, both the logical and emotional parts of me aren't happy, for different reasons.

Cold, your reaction is more about the larger issues plaguing our awful franchise, not about this excellent trade. Giddey's vision and passing ability is going to be a chemistry booster and increase our scoring efficiency. This is not a flyer on a disappointing player. This is max value for Caruso, and I say that as a Caruso fan. Giddey already has posted 11 triple doubles. He is a proven above average starter. He's got a good scoring rate, above average rebounding rate, and his ability to find assists is the best part of his game. I agree that there will probably be defensive issues. Coby and Giddey are mid defenders, often just a half a step slow, but if we can grab a defensively talented center, those issues can be minimized. Time to deal DDR away to continue the youth movement.

[madvillian]

The only legit concern I have is featured Giddey in Chicago fills the stat sheet in a big way on a bad team just in time for him to get overpaid significantly.

Although if we're just on the precipice of major cap jumps, it might be alright in the medium/long run.

I don't see many paths to upside in this deal. We're not going to be good, and even if Giddey plays well, we're going to immediately be overpaying him as a "core piece" of a team that is not in any universe anything more than a 6-8 seed type team. At best.

Are we closer this morning to a team we can be proud of and admire and that will give us a fun playoff series than we were yesterday?
I don't think so.

Change for change's sake isn't a plan, it's just hope.

[WindyCityBorn]

This trade also just absolutely solidified the living **** out of the fact that Vuc needs to either be gone this summer or in a significantly reduced role.

This was already the case but is heavily amplified now due to the defensive downgrade that the trade results in. And I see Giddey finding open shooters, cutters and lob guys much more than I see him finding Vuc for a 40% post up attempt.

Giddey and Vuc could coexist and maybe be effective for 15 mpg off the bench if they are flanked by 3 outright good defenders only.

Vuc + sweetner for Capela?

Carla sucks and is past his prime. He’s just a name now. Same as Vuc.

[tunit213]

Id have to imagine DeMar sign and trade, Lavine trade, Vuc trade are all incoming. Seems to me the FO wants to secure our top 10 pick in the 2025 draft (which is said to be loaded). This team desperately needed an influx of young talent and Giddy was a start to add to Coby, Ayo, PWill, Terry, Phillips, the 11th pick, 2025 top 10 pick, and whatever other young players/draft picks we can get for DeMar, Lavine, and Vuc.

[TheSuzerain]

The only legit concern I have is featured Giddey in Chicago fills the stat sheet in a big way on a bad team just in time for him to get overpaid significantly.

Although if we're just on the precipice of major cap jumps, it might be alright in the medium/long run.

I don't see many paths to upside in this deal. We're not going to be good, and even if Giddey plays well, we're going to immediately be overpaying him as a "core piece" of a team that is not in any universe anything more than a 6-8 seed type team. At best.

Are we closer this morning to a team we can be proud of and admire and that will give us a fun playoff series than we were yesterday?
I don't think so.

Change for change's sake isn't a plan, it's just hope.

Actually seems like he's extension eligible now. That's probably the play then lock him in to a long term deal now and then feature him.

I think people are struggling with:

1) OKC being absolutely right to trade Giddey as he doesn't fit for them b/c they already have SGA/JWill and are ready to contend now.
2) Giddey still being a pretty good playmaking prospect (a much tougher role to fill than Caruso's).

Giddey is the same age as the Thompson Twins.

[WindyCityBorn]

The only legit concern I have is featured Giddey in Chicago fills the stat sheet in a big way on a bad team just in time for him to get overpaid significantly.

Although if we're just on the precipice of major cap jumps, it might be alright in the medium/long run.

I don't see many paths to upside in this deal. We're not going to be good, and even if Giddey plays well, we're going to immediately be overpaying him as a "core piece" of a team that is not in any universe anything more than a 6-8 seed type team. At best.

Are we closer this morning to a team we can be proud of and admire and that will give us a fun playoff series than we were yesterday?
I don't think so.

Change for change's sake isn't a plan, it's just hope.

This isn’t change for change sake. It’s an explicit at admission that the current roster a failure and it’s time to go young. I expect DeRozan to be gone too.

I think win now mode is over. Rebuild incoming.

[WindyCityBorn]

Id have to imagine DeMar sign and trade, Lavine trade, Vuc trade are all incoming. Seems to me the FO wants to secure our top 10 pick in the 2025 draft (which is said to be loaded). This team desperately needed an influx of young talent and Giddy was a start to add to Coby, Ayo, PWill, Terry, Phillips, the 11th pick, 2025 top 10 pick, and whatever other young players/draft picks we can get for DeMar, Lavine, and Vuc.

Yep. LaVine and DeRozan are both gone. Vuc might stay only because he is on a short deal and probably has no value.

[RSP83]

We have no idea what offers were on the table.

But if Presti offered Giddey or the #12 pick (not both) which one would you choose?

You're right. Anyway after listening to several podcast takes on the trade. I think this trade starts growing on me. Giddey may not be be the best return, but he's far from the worst. I mean we're talking about trading a 30-year old expiring contract for a 21 year-old former lottery pick who actually pans out (compared to our very own PWill). I, at least, think we shouldn't be arguing on whether we get ourselves a good talent, which Giddey is. If we're going to argue on why there's no pick attached, go ahead. Doesn't bother me.

Now, I'm feeling more certain that AK is going to extend DeMar. I think AK sees Giddey as somebody who can play next to DeMar judging from how he play next to another mid-range player in SGA. And Giddey is a better fit next to DeMar than Zach.

The next guy gone will be Zach. Giddey trade sealed his fate with this team for good. And I also feel extending Pat is no longer certain. Let's see what happen next. I feel that Paul George rumor could be a possibility. I don't know whether I like that or not, but just saying.

What Paul George rumor?

Read on Twitter

[WindyCityBorn]

The only legit concern I have is featured Giddey in Chicago fills the stat sheet in a big way on a bad team just in time for him to get overpaid significantly.

Although if we're just on the precipice of major cap jumps, it might be alright in the medium/long run.

I don't see many paths to upside in this deal. We're not going to be good, and even if Giddey plays well, we're going to immediately be overpaying him as a "core piece" of a team that is not in any universe anything more than a 6-8 seed type team. At best.

Are we closer this morning to a team we can be proud of and admire and that will give us a fun playoff series than we were yesterday?
I don't think so.

Change for change's sake isn't a plan, it's just hope.

Actually seems like he's extension eligible now. That's probably the play then lock him in to a long term deal now and then feature him.

I think people are struggling with:

1) OKC being absolutely right to trade Giddey as he doesn't fit for them b/c they already have SGA/JWill and are ready to contend now.
2) Giddey still being a pretty good playmaking prospect (a much tougher role to fill than Caruso's).

Giddey is the same age as the Thompson Twins.

People acting like Giddey isn’t talented are beyond overdramatic. Most players in the NBA would be pushed aside for SGA. I can definitely see him flourishing here as main facilitator. And his shot is not so bad that couldn’t even be become a decent 3 point shooter. If DeRozan is gone I could see him putting up his sophomore season type numbers.

[biggestbullsfan]

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