Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[Chicago-Bull-E]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

what

[PlayerUp]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

Shed Vucevic, Drummond and Lavine from this roster and focus on rebuilding. It looks more appealing to watch even if we're losing games. Nobody wants to see a push to the playin next season which that roster above would be. What we want to see is progression towards a future roster we can be proud to be a fan of.

[DropStep]

The basketball related criticisms about draft picks and value are not idiotic like that, but just as confusing. Under the circumstances (which AK created for himself) this was much better value than I expected to get for Caruso.

Too much generic belly aching both in here and nationally based on analyzing the trade in a vacuum rather than taking into consideration all the factors other than “Caruso for Giddey memes?!?” ...

Right now it looks like the Bulls are rebuilding, but it wouldn't surprise me if AK re-signs DDR and trades Zach for "win now" players.

AKME not getting any sweetener scares me a little, because a rebuilding team would absolutely snag at least a 2nd or something

This is my only real issue. Would it have been nice to get something added to the trade? Absolutely. The coffers are empty and a 1-to-1 trade stings when the other team has over 30 draft picks they won't even be able to use....

It does sting. Any team would want some of those draft picks, not just rebuilding teams. But I seriously doubt AK said "No, seriously Sam, it's too much, please keep your draft picks and just send Giddey." There was a negotiation/game of chicken, which may have gone on for months. Presti wouldn't add any picks, or we would have taken them.

Given that reality, as we go into late June, do you:

A) Wait even longer than you already have for Presti to somehow cave and add them, even though he has more time on his side than we do, as the value of the asset continues to decline and the offseason disappears? Or...

B) Do you say "well eff you then, Sam, I'll do something else that I don't like as much, if you won't add the picks I want" in a snit like I probably would do because I'm a child? Or, do you...

C) Act logically and take what you still think is the best trade on the table, get the best value you still can for the remainder of Caruso's contract, lock down the first piece of the puzzle, and move on with all the other dominos that have to fall this summer, including some with a deadline of next weekend?

This was the deal AK could get out of Presti. I wish it was more. But, I'm trying not to swoon over a second round pick or two. Giddey was the prize, and there are other fish that we have to fry.

[kodo]

Everyone would have preferred a pick added, but that would have been considered a great deal for Caruso who has only 1 season left. We don't have a great FO. It's been voted the worst in the league.

If your moron son who is failing every class comes home with a B- on a test, you don't complain why he didn't get an A+.

[SirKaiser]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

I kinda like this team. Assuming we are getting something for Vooch and Derozan in a S&T.

Also not too sure I'd want Edey. I'd rather we trade down a bit where we can still get Filipowski to back up Drummond.

[Dan Z]

Right now it looks like the Bulls are rebuilding, but it wouldn't surprise me if AK re-signs DDR and trades Zach for "win now" players.

AKME not getting any sweetener scares me a little, because a rebuilding team would absolutely snag at least a 2nd or something

This is my only real issue. Would it have been nice to get something added to the trade? Absolutely. The coffers are empty and a 1-to-1 trade stings when the other team has over 30 draft picks they won't even be able to use....

It does sting. Any team would want some of those draft picks, not just rebuilding teams. But I seriously doubt AK said "No, seriously Sam, it's too much, please keep your draft picks and just send Giddey." There was a negotiation/game of chicken, which may have gone on for months. Presti wouldn't add any picks, or we would have taken them.

Given that reality, as we go into late June, do you:

A) Wait even longer than you already have for Presti to somehow cave and add them, even though he has more time on his side than we do, as the value of the asset continues to decline and the offseason disappears? Or...

B) Do you say "well eff you then, Sam, I'll do something else I don't like as well if you won't add the picks I want" in a snit like I probably would do because I'm a child? Or, do you...

C) Act logically and take what you still think is the best trade on the table, get the best value you still can for the remainder of Caruso's contract, lock down the first piece of the puzzle, and move on with all the other dominos that have to fall this summer, including some with a deadline of next weekend?

This was the deal AK could get out of Presti. I wish it was more. But, I'm trying not to swoon over a second round pick or two. Giddey was the prize, and there are other fish that we have to fry.

Option B is an exaggeration, but always an option when it comes to negotiating.

If youre not willing to walk away sometimes then you'll end up making bad moves (Im not saying this trade was one of them).

Based on the reports Ive read Caruso had value around the league. If AK asked for a pick (or picks), and that caused the deal to fall apart, then I bet he could get value elsewhere. OKC is only one team in the NBA

[Wingy]

If your moron son who is failing every class comes home with a B- on a test, you don't complain why he didn't get an A+.

Made me laugh heartily for a good while.

That’s the Bulls FO!

[Muzbar]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

Not really, no.

So I get the play Giddey at SF and make him a point forward idea people are posted, I do, really.

But doesn't that kind of take away from his uniqueness of being a 6'8" PG? He'd then be matched up with other players of similar height and probably more length. Giddey at PG has that height advantage to pass over defenders, something he won't have at the forward position.

[Hangtime84]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

Not really, no.

So I get the play Giddey at SF and make him a point forward idea people are posted, I do, really.

But doesn't that kind of take away from his uniqueness of being a 6'8" PG? He'd then be matched up with other players of similar height and probably more length. Giddey at PG has that height advantage to pass over defenders, something he won't have at the forward position.

centers guard him when was off ball in the playoffs.

[Muzbar]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

Not really, no.

So I get the play Giddey at SF and make him a point forward idea people are posted, I do, really.

But doesn't that kind of take away from his uniqueness of being a 6'8" PG? He'd then be matched up with other players of similar height and probably more length. Giddey at PG has that height advantage to pass over defenders, something he won't have at the forward position.

centers guard him when was off ball in the playoffs.

What's that got to do with his playmaking ability in which he'll have the ball in his hands?

[vtime]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

Not really, no.

So I get the play Giddey at SF and make him a point forward idea people are posted, I do, really.

But doesn't that kind of take away from his uniqueness of being a 6'8" PG? He'd then be matched up with other players of similar height and probably more length. Giddey at PG has that height advantage to pass over defenders, something he won't have at the forward position.

centers guard him when was off ball in the playoffs.

He shot 9/18 from three in the first rd. One cold shooting series is not indicative of how he was guarded in the first rx or in regular season matchups. It was a gimmick that worked. His playoff 3pt percentage is 35%. Caruso playoff percentage is 30%.

[vtime]

No he’s not guilty and people that call him a pedo are ridiculous when it’s only a 3 year difference between them.

Other NBA players have done real crimes yet fans let it slide they don’t boo them. Even our own Derrick Rose was involved with some bad stuff yet Chicago still loves him.

He’s not “guilty” because he was never charged with anything. It appears he probably did break the law in CA, but it’s also worth nothing that 19 + 17 would not be illegal in most states, including IL. Some states have fairly unreasonable statutory rape laws (i.e a bright line rule at a certain age, with no exception for people who are within 2-3 years of your age), that can result in some pretty absurd consequences.

So, whether or not Giddey broke the law, I think most people wouldn’t be all that stressed out about 19 + 17, particularly when he met her in a place where you had to be 18 to enter and could reasonably have believed she was at least that old.

It’s a funny thing about federalism - these rules are different in every state and, particularly for people who are traveling all the time, it’s not like anyone actually knows the specific rules wherever they go. Once you hit a certain age, it doesn’t matter, since you shouldn’t be messing around with the teenager cohort at all, but when you yourself are a teenager like Giddey was, it’s obviously dicier.

the age of consent where he came of age was 16

still, this is one of those areas where the nba should damn well be educating its players. ask for ID, use a condom

she was reportedly a HS sophomore, BTW. and this is her boldly racking up the followers:

https://www.instagram.com/lliv.cook/

The fake ID is what was used to access the club in the first place. That was a key component of him being cleared.

[LikeMike23]

He’s not “guilty” because he was never charged with anything. It appears he probably did break the law in CA, but it’s also worth nothing that 19 + 17 would not be illegal in most states, including IL. Some states have fairly unreasonable statutory rape laws (i.e a bright line rule at a certain age, with no exception for people who are within 2-3 years of your age), that can result in some pretty absurd consequences.

So, whether or not Giddey broke the law, I think most people wouldn’t be all that stressed out about 19 + 17, particularly when he met her in a place where you had to be 18 to enter and could reasonably have believed she was at least that old.

It’s a funny thing about federalism - these rules are different in every state and, particularly for people who are traveling all the time, it’s not like anyone actually knows the specific rules wherever they go. Once you hit a certain age, it doesn’t matter, since you shouldn’t be messing around with the teenager cohort at all, but when you yourself are a teenager like Giddey was, it’s obviously dicier.

the age of consent where he came of age was 16

still, this is one of those areas where the nba should damn well be educating its players. ask for ID, use a condom

she was reportedly a HS sophomore, BTW. and this is her boldly racking up the followers:

https://www.instagram.com/lliv.cook/

The fake ID is what was used to access the club in the first place. That was a key component of him being cleared.

He was cleared because the girl's family refused to talk to authorities. A fake ID isn't an excuse for pedophilia.

Regardless of the age difference, an NBA player shouldn't mess with a high school girl.

Whether it's wrong or right, people will make fun of him about this for the rest of his life.

[Chi town]

the age of consent where he came of age was 16

still, this is one of those areas where the nba should damn well be educating its players. ask for ID, use a condom

she was reportedly a HS sophomore, BTW. and this is her boldly racking up the followers:

https://www.instagram.com/lliv.cook/

The fake ID is what was used to access the club in the first place. That was a key component of him being cleared.

He was cleared because the girl's family refused to talk to authorities. A fake ID isn't an excuse for pedophilia.

Regardless of the age difference, an NBA player shouldn't mess with a high school girl.

Whether it's wrong or right, people will make fun of him about this for the rest of his life.

He will get GF and no one will talk about it again

[dougthonus]

Right now it looks like the Bulls are rebuilding, but it wouldn't surprise me if AK re-signs DDR and trades Zach for "win now" players.

AKME not getting any sweetener scares me a little, because a rebuilding team would absolutely snag at least a 2nd or something

This is my only real issue. Would it have been nice to get something added to the trade? Absolutely. The coffers are empty and a 1-to-1 trade stings when the other team has over 30 draft picks they won't even be able to use....

It does sting. Any team would want some of those draft picks, not just rebuilding teams. But I seriously doubt AK said "No, seriously Sam, it's too much, please keep your draft picks and just send Giddey." There was a negotiation/game of chicken, which may have gone on for months. Presti wouldn't add any picks, or we would have taken them.

Given that reality, as we go into late June, do you:

A) Wait even longer than you already have for Presti to somehow cave and add them, even though he has more time on his side than we do, as the value of the asset continues to decline and the offseason disappears? Or...

B) Do you say "well eff you then, Sam, I'll do something else that I don't like as much, if you won't add the picks I want" in a snit like I probably would do because I'm a child? Or, do you...

C) Act logically and take what you still think is the best trade on the table, get the best value you still can for the remainder of Caruso's contract, lock down the first piece of the puzzle, and move on with all the other dominos that have to fall this summer, including some with a deadline of next weekend?

This was the deal AK could get out of Presti. I wish it was more. But, I'm trying not to swoon over a second round pick or two. Giddey was the prize, and there are other fish that we have to fry.

I think this is a good way to put it, but I will add a couple of caveats:

1: It definitely means AK couldn't negotiate a better deal, and he took the best deal he could. It does not mean someone else couldn't have negotiated a better deal though. We'll never really know. I tend to think people are way overestimating Caruso's value though and that we probably couldn't get picks.

2: I'm sure AK took the deal he thought was best, but it definitely doesn't mean it was the deal you or I or other posters thought was best. I think he went with the most talented young player he could get, but he ignored the fit in the modern NBA and he ignored the cost control portion of the contract. This was a move to retool instead of a move to rebuild, and I think a lot of fans would probably have liked a different deal that was on the table more.

That said, generally speaking, I agree with the thought that "well just make them give you picks" probably isn't really an option, and it is fair to guess that he probably tried.

[ChiefILL53]

He was cleared because the girl's family refused to talk to authorities. A fake ID isn't an excuse for pedophilia.

Regardless of the age difference, an NBA player shouldn't mess with a high school girl.

Whether it's wrong or right, people will make fun of him about this for the rest of his life.

A fake ID isn't an excuse, but if you're in a 18+ club, it's reasonable to expect everyone there is supposed to be that age or older. This is my speculation, but her family might not have cooperated with the police due to the fact she got into the club by breaking the law via using a fake ID. I don't believe he intentionally went out thinking "I'm gonna score with a 16 y/o", so people that make statements assuming that was intent are a bit annoying (not saying youre doing that). However, he definitely won't be living this down for another few years so he's gonna have to live with it.

[DuckIII]

Whether it's wrong or right, people will make fun of him about this for the rest of his life.

I wonder why Kobe didn’t get all this. He met Vanessa when she was a 17 year old HS student and he was 21. They were engaged 6 months later.

Regardless yes people will “make fun of him” because people are sad. “People” care what the royal family has for dinner, listen to Alex Jones and watch 90 Day Fiancé.

[Wingy]

A fake ID isn't an excuse, but if you're in a 18+ club, it's reasonable to expect everyone there is supposed to be that age or older.

I don’t care to debate the whole drama, but that’s not reasonable. That’s an insanely naive assumption.

[Johnston797]

Not really, no.

So I get the play Giddey at SF and make him a point forward idea people are posted, I do, really.

But doesn't that kind of take away from his uniqueness of being a 6'8" PG? He'd then be matched up with other players of similar height and probably more length. Giddey at PG has that height advantage to pass over defenders, something he won't have at the forward position.

centers guard him when was off ball in the playoffs.

He shot 9/18 from three in the first rd. One cold shooting series is not indicative of how he was guarded in the first rx or in regular season matchups. It was a gimmick that worked. His playoff 3pt percentage is 35%. Caruso playoff percentage is 30%.

Well, it happened some in the regular season. Rockets did it first. Initially, it completely threw Giddey. OKC figured out some stuff for him to attack it and Giddey played better. Until the Mavs series. Mavs were a horrible match up for him given they had both Luka and Irving to attack him. Usually, he was fine as OKC's worst defender on the floor and still allowed OKC to have a good D.

Giddey may develop enough and cover up his weaknesses. Even with his current weakness, they only clearly showed up playing on a v good team against other good v teams. The reason that teams started putting the center on Giddey is bc Chet was killing centers off the dribble and they wanted to put a v good 3 or 4 on him.

I think it's a good gamble for Bulls. Clearly better than running it back again. He progressed nicely from 19 to 20 and last year was a disaster for him with the legal problems and shifting role on the team.

OKC can't gamble another year on Josh figuring things out but Bulls can.

[Chi town]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

Not really, no.

So I get the play Giddey at SF and make him a point forward idea people are posted, I do, really.

But doesn't that kind of take away from his uniqueness of being a 6'8" PG? He'd then be matched up with other players of similar height and probably more length. Giddey at PG has that height advantage to pass over defenders, something he won't have at the forward position.

I think Giddey is a better defender at SF than PG.

Smaller guards quickness is tough for him.