Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[League Circles]

the age of consent where he came of age was 16

still, this is one of those areas where the nba should damn well be educating its players. ask for ID, use a condom

she was reportedly a HS sophomore, BTW. and this is her boldly racking up the followers:

https://www.instagram.com/lliv.cook/

The fake ID is what was used to access the club in the first place. That was a key component of him being cleared.

He was cleared because the girl's family refused to talk to authorities. A fake ID isn't an excuse for pedophilia.

Regardless of the age difference, an NBA player shouldn't mess with a high school girl.

Whether it's wrong or right, people will make fun of him about this for the rest of his life.

Umm, pedophilia isn't any part of this whatsoever. That's an attraction to pre-pubescent children, which is definitely not the case here.

[coldfish]

We should have a separate thread on the Giddey allegations.

My understanding: He was 19 and met her at an 18+ club where she had a fake ID. Even if he ID'ed her, he would have got the same fake ID she used to get in. The pics I have seen certainly don't make me wonder "wow, how did this girl pass as over 18?" Hell, he very well might have asked for an ID. No one ever disclosed what actually happened.

Its a big nothing burger. On the list of sins committed by NBA players, this has to be near the dam bottom.

[Johnston797]

G White
G Lavine
F Giddey
F Williams
C Drummond, Edey

Is this fun or what?!

Not really, no.

So I get the play Giddey at SF and make him a point forward idea people are posted, I do, really.

But doesn't that kind of take away from his uniqueness of being a 6'8" PG? He'd then be matched up with other players of similar height and probably more length. Giddey at PG has that height advantage to pass over defenders, something he won't have at the forward position.

I think Giddey is a better defender at SF than PG.

Smaller guards quickness is tough for him.

Ideally, with Giddey, you would play him with bigger guards and wings that can cross-match and take the toughest assignments. Giddey is good at taking smaller guards to the cup. So ideally, Bulls would have a size mis-match against other teams. Ironically, a very good off-ball player like Caruso would be perfect to play him with. Seems v important for Bulls to keep Patrick Williams as he should be a good fit with Giddey assuming both continue to develop.

[DuckIII]

Please don’t play the 6’8 point guard at small forward.

[Johnston797]

one last thoughtt - Billy Donovan is very close with Daignelt. I wonder how much he heard about the Giddey issues over the last year from the OKC coach. I do feel like OKC thought Giddey's legal problems were the result of a unfortunate situation and very much backed Giddey as a person. Bulls had to at least back-channel some intel on Giddey.

[MrSparkle]

We should have a separate thread on the Giddey allegations.

My understanding: He was 19 and met her at an 18+ club where she had a fake ID. Even if he ID'ed her, he would have got the same fake ID she used to get in. The pics I have seen certainly don't make me wonder "wow, how did this girl pass as over 18?" Hell, he very well might have asked for an ID. No one ever disclosed what actually happened.

Its a big nothing burger. On the list of sins committed by NBA players, this has to be near the dam bottom.

Yeah - charges dropped, investigation’s over. If every 21-16 relationship was considered a crime, then a lot of NBA players would be in jail (let alone Mailman impregnating a 13yo, back in the day - horrible, not exonerating that, but the league/players does put these chapters behind them). So I agree, it was a weird/uncomfortable/poor-decision in his life, but it’s probably best to not bring it up anymore unless some new shockwave comes up, or it turns out its a pattern of behavior. Hopefully it makes him focus more on basketball, and less on clubbing.

[Johnston797]

Giddey was never charged. Both the policy and NBA had investigations that have since been closed.

[League Circles]

Please don’t play the 6’8 point guard at small forward.

What position has he been guarding in OKC mostly?

[burlydee]

Please don’t play the 6’8 point guard at small forward.

What position has he been guarding in OKC mostly?

He's been guarding the least competent wing player on the other team. Shai guards the point, Dort top scorer, Williams big wing, Giddey - who's ever left.

You can see a situation where he plays point on offense in Chicago and then guards the least talented offensive 2-4 on the opposing team, whir Coby guards the one. Which is another reason the fit between him and DeRozan is tough. They both are used to having better defenders flank them on the wing.

[League Circles]

Please don’t play the 6’8 point guard at small forward.

What position has he been guarding in OKC mostly?

He's been guarding the least competent wing player on the other team. Shai guards the point, Dort top scorer, Williams big wing, Giddey - who's ever left.

You can see a situation where he plays point on offense in Chicago and then guards the least talented offensive 2-4 on the opposing team, whir Coby guards the one. Which is another reason the fit between him and DeRozan is tough. They both are used to having better defenders flank them on the wing.

Sounds like Giddey has already been guarding plenty of 3s and 4s, and he did it in a #1 seed with the league's 4th best defense. Not sure why that would be a problem here. IMO Demar will either be gone or Giddey will start the season as the 6th man, so I don't see there being a problem there. Demar and Giddey are pointless with each other on the floor next to them.

[coldfish]

Please don’t play the 6’8 point guard at small forward.

I have no issues with Giddey guarding SF's. Based on everything I am reading, he has foot speed issues against smaller PG's.

As such, a Giddey and two of Lavine, Coby, Ayo lineup works as long as Giddey is running the show. More so than Ball did.

One tactical note to that, the Bulls have used a motion offense for the most part under Donovan. That motion offense has the PG bring the ball up and the SG and SF run the offense from the elbow.

I bring all of this up because if Giddey is playing SF on offense (the demar role) and guarding a SF on defense, its fine. He is effectively PG in that situation. I suspect that will happen and there will be a lot of hand wringing about it.

Another comment: The players have a ton of freedom in the motion offense. Javonte Green moves around like a mad man and Patrick stands in the corner in the same exact role. This is player choice. If Giddey gets the Demar role, he wouldn't play it anything like Demar.

[jnrjr79]

the age of consent where he came of age was 16

still, this is one of those areas where the nba should damn well be educating its players. ask for ID, use a condom

she was reportedly a HS sophomore, BTW. and this is her boldly racking up the followers:

https://www.instagram.com/lliv.cook/

The fake ID is what was used to access the club in the first place. That was a key component of him being cleared.

He was cleared because the girl's family refused to talk to authorities. A fake ID isn't an excuse for pedophilia.

Regardless of the age difference, an NBA player shouldn't mess with a high school girl.

Whether it's wrong or right, people will make fun of him about this for the rest of his life.

A couple things you said are inaccurate. First, he wasn’t “cleared.” He was simply not charged. And that may be for the reason you said (lack of victim cooperation).

As to the fake ID, at least in IL as of when I learned crim law and spent a little time working in that arena, a fake ID was indeed a defense, as is meeting someone in a bar where you have to be a certain age to enter.

I don’t know whether Giddey generally knew she was in high school and just thought she was 18 or what, but in any event, sure, that seems like a good rule of thumb (even though I think most people would not otherwise be bothered about a 19 and 17 year old dating).

[jnrjr79]

Whether it's wrong or right, people will make fun of him about this for the rest of his life.

I wonder why Kobe didn’t get all this. He met Vanessa when she was a 17 year old HS student and he was 21. They were engaged 6 months later.

Regardless yes people will “make fun of him” because people are sad. “People” care what the royal family has for dinner, listen to Alex Jones and watch 90 Day Fiancé.

Heck, Kobe settled a case accusing him of forcible rape and was investigated by the police for forcible rape, and he’s still worshipped as a legend and honored by the league.

[League Circles]

I'm glad we got Giddey as a talent to take a look at, but a little concerned that we may have him penciled in for a starting role that he might not deserve, because it's now been made clear through reporting that he basically asked for a trade cause he was sent to the bench.

I'm not saying I'm against him starting. It may very well be the right move. I'm saying I'm against him having it as an entitlement. It's still plausible that him starting MIGHT not be best even of Demar walks, because it's very hard to justify benching either Zach or Coby and with those two, Patrick's defense might be more important than Giddey's playmaking. Might.

[GuardianEnzo]

I'm glad we got Giddey as a talent to take a look at, but a little concerned that we may have him penciled in for a starting role that he might not deserve, because it's now been made clear through reporting that he basically asked for a trade cause he was sent to the bench.

I'm not saying I'm against him starting. It may very well be the right move. I'm saying I'm against him having it as an entitlement. It's still plausible that him starting MIGHT not be best even of Demar walks, because it's very hard to justify benching either Zach or Coby and with those two, Patrick's defense might be more important than Giddey's playmaking. Might.

He started every game for a 57-win team. I think saying he’s not good enough to start for us is a bit of a stretch.

[League Circles]

I'm glad we got Giddey as a talent to take a look at, but a little concerned that we may have him penciled in for a starting role that he might not deserve, because it's now been made clear through reporting that he basically asked for a trade cause he was sent to the bench.

I'm not saying I'm against him starting. It may very well be the right move. I'm saying I'm against him having it as an entitlement. It's still plausible that him starting MIGHT not be best even of Demar walks, because it's very hard to justify benching either Zach or Coby and with those two, Patrick's defense might be more important than Giddey's playmaking. Might.

He started every game for a 57-win team. I think saying he’s not good enough to start for us is a bit of a stretch.

Starters need to be chosen based on what's best for the team, which usually means the best 5 man unit. Giddey might be one of our 5 best players while not necessarily being in our best 5 man unit.

He was also benched on that 57 win team and was going to remain on the bench this coming season which is why he expressed an interest in being traded.

[DuckIII]

Please don’t play the 6’8 point guard at small forward.

I have no issues with Giddey guarding SF's. Based on everything I am reading, he has foot speed issues against smaller PG's.

As such, a Giddey and two of Lavine, Coby, Ayo lineup works as long as Giddey is running the show. More so than Ball did.

I should clarify something here since there is a common phrase out there, that you didn’t use, along the lines of “the position you play is the position you defend.”

I’ve never agreed with that. Players play positions on offense. They just play defense. You match up against who makes the most sense to match up against based on collective strengths and weaknesses. Lonzo defended power forwards at times, but he wasn’t our power forward. He was our point guard.

Giddey will guard whomever he guards. My post was referring to his offensive role. He needs to be the primary ball handler and facilitator in both the open court and half court. The point guard.

[League Circles]

Please don’t play the 6’8 point guard at small forward.

I have no issues with Giddey guarding SF's. Based on everything I am reading, he has foot speed issues against smaller PG's.

As such, a Giddey and two of Lavine, Coby, Ayo lineup works as long as Giddey is running the show. More so than Ball did.

I should clarify something here since there is a common phrase out there, that you didn’t use, along the lines of “the position you play is the position you defend.”

I’ve never agreed with that. Players play positions on offense. They just play defense. You match up against who makes the most sense to match up against based on collective strengths and weaknesses. Lonzo defended power forwards at times, but he wasn’t our power forward. He was our point guard.

Giddey will guard whomever he guards. My post was referring to his offensive role. He needs to be the primary ball handler and facilitator in both the open court and half court. The point guard.

Good clarification, and it is all semantics, but can always be confusing. I myself have always defined position by who you guard, but yes Giddey will definitely be a "point" on offense. He'll just do it from one of the forward positions most likely. Lebron was always a point but never a point guard, etc.

And the key thing with Lonzo or someone similar vs Giddey is that Lonzo or Caruso or Javonte Green could guard 1-4 pretty well. Doesn't seem Giddey can do that. He'll probably be a guy we try to hide on defense.

[DuckIII]

I have no issues with Giddey guarding SF's. Based on everything I am reading, he has foot speed issues against smaller PG's.

As such, a Giddey and two of Lavine, Coby, Ayo lineup works as long as Giddey is running the show. More so than Ball did.

I should clarify something here since there is a common phrase out there, that you didn’t use, along the lines of “the position you play is the position you defend.”

I’ve never agreed with that. Players play positions on offense. They just play defense. You match up against who makes the most sense to match up against based on collective strengths and weaknesses. Lonzo defended power forwards at times, but he wasn’t our power forward. He was our point guard.

Giddey will guard whomever he guards. My post was referring to his offensive role. He needs to be the primary ball handler and facilitator in both the open court and half court. The point guard.

Good clarification, and it is all semantics, but can always be confusing. I myself have always defined position by who you guard, but yes Giddey will definitely be a "point" on offense. He'll just do it from one of the forward positions most likely. Lebron was always a point but never a point guard, etc.

And the key thing with Lonzo or someone similar vs Giddey is that Lonzo or Caruso or Javonte Green could guard 1-4 pretty well. Doesn't seem Giddey can do that. He'll probably be a guy we try to hide on defense.

Agree on all points. We can run out a lineup of Coby, Ayo, Giddey, Pat and Vuc/Drummond, sure thing. We can even say Giddey is the small forward in that lineup. But he better have the ball as the primary facilitator and pace setter regardless of labels.

[League Circles]

I like:

Drummond
Patrick
Giddey
Zach
Coby

That 1 through 4 is similar enough defensively that Patrick can usually just take the toughest matchup, Coby the 2nd toughest, and then Zach and Giddey take the easiest guys.

Crazy to think how much this roster still might change this summer from a Zach or Demar trade alone (plus possibly others).