Bulls trade Alex Caruso to OKC for Josh Giddey

[Jcool0]

People shouldn't have star expectations for Giddey, there's some path forward there, but it is an incredibly shaky one, but we weren't going to get a star for Caruso. .

His per 36 numbers the last two years were 18ppg/9rebounds/7 assists (2022 actual was 16/8/6). He get close to 20ppg in Chicago combined with his other averages and you are probably an All-Star.

[CROBulls]

People shouldn't have star expectations for Giddey, there's some path forward there, but it is an incredibly shaky one, but we weren't going to get a star for Caruso. .

His per 36 numbers the last two years were 18ppg/9rebounds/7 assists (2022 actual was 16/8/6). He get close to 20ppg in Chicago combined with his other averages and you are probably an All-Star.

Not really. My grandma in today's NBA can average 20. Like today's 20 is like 5 years ago 15. And 30 is like 20, and 35 is like 25. Everything heavily inflated. Just like your today's groceries and electric bills.

[burlydee]

Of all the Bulls young players, Giddy and Coby are the only guys who could sniff an all star team. Considering that we only had one of those guys before, I'd say the trade seems like a win.

I've been surprised by the overall negativity about this trade. Too many fans and media have fallen into a narrative - AK dumb and incompetent. But life is not a neat narrative. AK is about 50/50 or 60/40 on his deals. It just that the misses have been so spectacular. And the injuries catastrophic. This isn't a defend AK post. It's a let's try to be objective post. Bulls Twitter has lost its minds.

[DropStep]

So, if we take it as more or less true that Giddey was a buy-low after his most recent season, AK has liked him for a while and decided that's his guy, AK's future may now be as inextricably linked to Giddey as any other move, and Giddey is going to have the ball in his hands and be set up to succeed here in every way the Bulls can think of... then, is it the right move for AK to actually double down on on the bet (since he may sink or swim with Giddey anyway) and sign him to a long term extension soon, before his value (hopefully) goes up?

I would admire that move, actually - showing the courage of his convictions, showing faith in a guy who maybe could use some confidence, and making it clear to the locker room that Giddey is going to be a major piece. He would kind of be calling his shot, like Babe Ruth. It may work and it may not work, but it raises the ceiling of the move quite a bit to have him locked down long term on what hopefully may turn out to be a bargain contract, and for AK the floor may already be exile, anyway. (Or, well on his way out the door, at least.) Maybe he should bet big. It would be kind of nice for the Bulls to try to be ballsy and proactive again, even though it didn't work out so well last time (Vuc/Lonzo).

[Jcool0]

People shouldn't have star expectations for Giddey, there's some path forward there, but it is an incredibly shaky one, but we weren't going to get a star for Caruso. .

His per 36 numbers the last two years were 18ppg/9rebounds/7 assists (2022 actual was 16/8/6). He get close to 20ppg in Chicago combined with his other averages and you are probably an All-Star.

Not really. My grandma in today's NBA can average 20. Like today's 20 is like 5 years ago 15. And 30 is like 20, and 35 is like 25. Everything heavily inflated. Just like your today's groceries and electric bills.

22 players averaged 20+ ppg last year. So no your grandma probably cant do the same.

[MrSparkle]

Of all the Bulls young players, Giddy and Coby are the only guys who could sniff an all star team. Considering that we only had one of those guys before, I'd say the trade seems like a win.

I've been surprised by the overall negativity about this trade. Too many fans and media have fallen into a narrative - AK dumb and incompetent. But life is not a neat narrative. AK is about 50/50 or 60/40 on his deals. It just that the misses have been so spectacular. And the injuries catastrophic. This isn't a defend AK post. It's a let's try to be objective post. Bulls Twitter has lost its minds.

Well, IMO the Giddey trade has potential to be another flub. I can see OKC winning the WCFs. Felt like getting an all-defensive guard for a guy who fell out the rotation and didn't want to hit the bench next year, it seemed too easy for OKC. But I can also see why AK jumped on the gamble immediately, as waiting anymore with Caruso could've only gotten worse. Getting a $60M+ extension would've been a team-building nightmare, with little choices but to then trade higher salaries down the line as Ayo/Coby also stare down their negotiations.

My main fear is that Giddey will shoot worse in Chicago, while Caruso might continue his late prime emergence (ala Korver/Atlanta). I don't think ASG is out of question for AC, if he shoots 40% from 3 on another year, gets All-Def. honors again on a top-3 seed. So from that angle, you might look at the trade the next 2 years and see that OKC "won", again.

For Josh... Bigger market, more pressure (3P% ), and defensive sieves get their souls torn out by the Chicago media and fans. But if he finds his groove as a playmaker and makes the team fun to watch (who doesn't love a nice pass), it'll be more than worth it. I can see why there was reluctance to trade more into this draft, as the median bench/role-player ceiling seems high in these guys. Whatever reservations I have about Giddey, I'd have all day with Knecht (D & handles/on-ball pressure), Dillingham (size), Castle (3P%), Edey (D & range), etc.

But my beef with the trade... seems like every trade (and draft pick), AK is giving up a little bit leverage based on market value/optics on things that probably could've been negotiated in. Even something like taking Aminu in the Vuc trade, or the pick protections in the Demar trade. I don't like how they go from top-10, to the next 2y dropping top-8. The very concerning thing is we are set up to deliver an 11-12 pick next year, or 9-14 the following 2. Compare that to Portland's top-14 protection for 6 F'ing years. At a certain point, everything's adding up. You couldn't squeeze a pair of 2nds out of Presti?

For a guy walking in FA from a team with zero interest in resigning him (Spurs), I understand you had to pay something for the luxury of taking Demar, but we ended up overpaying in terms of leverage. It's complicated to explain, because IMO we "won" the deal from the aspect of having All-NBA/2x ASG Demar... but ... we gave Spurs more leverage, getting another FRP for Thad (inconsequential #20/Branham, but still).

And then drafting far higher on the board than mocked (Patrick, Terry), without trading down. You hope the same thing doesn't happen tomorrow. Winning GMs win every margin. Ainge wanted Tatum at #1, but he got Tatum and another pick for Fultz. Feel like AK would've taken his guy #1 and called it a day (uh, Lonzo?).

Anyway, I'm glad the Giddey trade has been blasted. Rock-bottom expectations are maybe a good thing for the Bulls, these days. They do have a potential for a lucky resurgence, if everything works out. So far, he's made it harder for himself to benefit from NBA luck.

[burlydee]

Of all the Bulls young players, Giddy and Coby are the only guys who could sniff an all star team. Considering that we only had one of those guys before, I'd say the trade seems like a win.

I've been surprised by the overall negativity about this trade. Too many fans and media have fallen into a narrative - AK dumb and incompetent. But life is not a neat narrative. AK is about 50/50 or 60/40 on his deals. It just that the misses have been so spectacular. And the injuries catastrophic. This isn't a defend AK post. It's a let's try to be objective post. Bulls Twitter has lost its minds.

Well, IMO the Giddey trade has potential to be another flub. I can see OKC winning the WCFs. Felt like getting an all-defensive guard for a guy who fell out the rotation and didn't want to hit the bench next year, it seemed too easy for OKC. But I can also see why AK jumped on the gamble immediately, as waiting anymore with Caruso could've only gotten worse. Getting a $60M+ extension would've been a team-building nightmare, with little choices but to then trade higher salaries down the line as Ayo/Coby also stare down their negotiations.

My main fear is that Giddey will shoot worse in Chicago, while Caruso might continue his late prime emergence (ala Korver/Atlanta). I don't think ASG is out of question for AC, if he shoots 40% from 3 on another year, gets All-Def. honors again on a top-3 seed. So from that angle, you might look at the trade the next 2 years and see that OKC "won", again.

For Josh... Bigger market, more pressure (3P% ), and defensive sieves get their souls torn out by the Chicago media and fans. But if he finds his groove as a playmaker and makes the team fun to watch (who doesn't love a nice pass), it'll be more than worth it. I can see why there was reluctance to trade more into this draft, as the median bench/role-player ceiling seems high in these guys. Whatever reservations I have about Giddey, I'd have all day with Knecht (D & handles/on-ball pressure), Dillingham (size), Castle (3P%), Edey (D & range), etc.

But my beef with the trade... seems like every trade (and draft pick), AK is giving up a little bit leverage based on market value/optics on things that probably could've been negotiated in. Even something like taking Aminu in the Vuc trade, or the pick protections in the Demar trade. I don't like how they go from top-10, to the next 2y dropping top-8. The very concerning thing is we are set up to deliver an 11-12 pick next year, or 9-14 the following 2. Compare that to Portland's top-14 protection for 6 F'ing years. At a certain point, everything's adding up. You couldn't squeeze a pair of 2nds out of Presti?

For a guy walking in FA from a team with zero interest in resigning him (Spurs), I understand you had to pay something for the luxury of taking Demar, but we ended up overpaying in terms of leverage. It's complicated to explain, because IMO we "won" the deal from the aspect of having All-NBA/2x ASG Demar... but ... we gave Spurs more leverage, getting another FRP for Thad (inconsequential #20/Branham, but still).

And then drafting far higher on the board than mocked (Patrick, Terry), without trading down. You hope the same thing doesn't happen tomorrow. Winning GMs win every margin. Ainge wanted Tatum at #1, but he got Tatum and another pick for Fultz. Feel like AK would've taken his guy #1 and called it a day (uh, Lonzo?).

I don't think we can view whether or not OKC has success in the future negatively for Chicago. They were the top seed this year. They'll probably be a top seed again next year. I don't think there is a chance AC makes an all-star team in the West. I think its more likely he ends up playing fewer minutes to keep him fresh and because OKC has tremendous depth. From an asset stand point I think Giddey is a better asset than Caruso. I ilke Caruso, but I think he's the Bulls have young guards on the roster who can help fill that void. I guess I co-sign what Simmons and Russillo were saying on their podcast. The Bulls got a promising 22 year old for a guy on an expiring contract. I'm not sure Caruso makes sense on a closing 5 next to Dort, SGA, Williams and Chet. Their too small.

I think Giddey has a decent chance to be a high level starter for the Bulls for the next 3-5 years. I think his numbers his rookie and sophomore season are more indicative of the type of player he is - not the season where his role was adjusted and he was going through offseason drama. The Bulls simply lack above average passing at most positions. One reason they had to run so much offense through Vuc is b/c he was the best passer on the team. Hopefully Giddy helps shift that, so we can play less through our bumbling center and more through our playmaking guards.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

His per 36 numbers the last two years were 18ppg/9rebounds/7 assists (2022 actual was 16/8/6). He get close to 20ppg in Chicago combined with his other averages and you are probably an All-Star.

Not really. My grandma in today's NBA can average 20. Like today's 20 is like 5 years ago 15. And 30 is like 20, and 35 is like 25. Everything heavily inflated. Just like your today's groceries and electric bills.

22 players averaged 20+ ppg last year. So no your grandma probably cant do the same.

You never know man

[ChiefILL53]

You never know man

I wish I could give more than +1 lol

[Repeat 3-peat]

Read on Twitter

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Ok, I'm in on this kid. Get some shooters around him now. Don't ask me how.

[ChiefILL53]

Liking what I'm hearing in this press conference. I hope they fill out the roster to play with pace and shooting and lets get this show on the road and see where it gets us

[League Circles]

Ok, I'm in on this kid. Get some shooters around him now. Don't ask me how.

Shooters:

Coby
Ayo
Zach
Patrick

The Bulls jump shooting woes are really overstated IMO. Our problem is a lack of creation of good bucket opportunities. Not enough layups, dunks, foul shots, open 3s, etc.

[Dan Z]

So, if we take it as more or less true that Giddey was a buy-low after his most recent season, AK has liked him for a while and decided that's his guy, AK's future may now be as inextricably linked to Giddey as any other move, and Giddey is going to have the ball in his hands and be set up to succeed here in every way the Bulls can think of... then, is it the right move for AK to actually double down on on the bet (since he may sink or swim with Giddey anyway) and sign him to a long term extension soon, before his value (hopefully) goes up?

I would admire that move, actually - showing the courage of his convictions, showing faith in a guy who maybe could use some confidence, and making it clear to the locker room that Giddey is going to be a major piece. He would kind of be calling his shot, like Babe Ruth. It may work and it may not work, but it raises the ceiling of the move quite a bit to have him locked down long term on what hopefully may turn out to be a bargain contract, and for AK the floor may already be exile, anyway. (Or, well on his way out the door, at least.) Maybe he should bet big. It would be kind of nice for the Bulls to try to be ballsy and proactive again, even though it didn't work out so well last time (Vuc/Lonzo).

He can try, but Giddey might not want to sign a contract extension right now. It makes more sense for him to wait. At least that's my two cents.

[Dan Z]

Of all the Bulls young players, Giddy and Coby are the only guys who could sniff an all star team. Considering that we only had one of those guys before, I'd say the trade seems like a win.

I've been surprised by the overall negativity about this trade. Too many fans and media have fallen into a narrative - AK dumb and incompetent. But life is not a neat narrative. AK is about 50/50 or 60/40 on his deals. It just that the misses have been so spectacular. And the injuries catastrophic. This isn't a defend AK post. It's a let's try to be objective post. Bulls Twitter has lost its minds.

Well, IMO the Giddey trade has potential to be another flub. I can see OKC winning the WCFs. Felt like getting an all-defensive guard for a guy who fell out the rotation and didn't want to hit the bench next year, it seemed too easy for OKC. But I can also see why AK jumped on the gamble immediately, as waiting anymore with Caruso could've only gotten worse. Getting a $60M+ extension would've been a team-building nightmare, with little choices but to then trade higher salaries down the line as Ayo/Coby also stare down their negotiations.

My main fear is that Giddey will shoot worse in Chicago, while Caruso might continue his late prime emergence (ala Korver/Atlanta). I don't think ASG is out of question for AC, if he shoots 40% from 3 on another year, gets All-Def. honors again on a top-3 seed. So from that angle, you might look at the trade the next 2 years and see that OKC "won", again.

For Josh... Bigger market, more pressure (3P% ), and defensive sieves get their souls torn out by the Chicago media and fans. But if he finds his groove as a playmaker and makes the team fun to watch (who doesn't love a nice pass), it'll be more than worth it. I can see why there was reluctance to trade more into this draft, as the median bench/role-player ceiling seems high in these guys. Whatever reservations I have about Giddey, I'd have all day with Knecht (D & handles/on-ball pressure), Dillingham (size), Castle (3P%), Edey (D & range), etc.

But my beef with the trade... seems like every trade (and draft pick), AK is giving up a little bit leverage based on market value/optics on things that probably could've been negotiated in. Even something like taking Aminu in the Vuc trade, or the pick protections in the Demar trade. I don't like how they go from top-10, to the next 2y dropping top-8. The very concerning thing is we are set up to deliver an 11-12 pick next year, or 9-14 the following 2. Compare that to Portland's top-14 protection for 6 F'ing years. At a certain point, everything's adding up. You couldn't squeeze a pair of 2nds out of Presti?

For a guy walking in FA from a team with zero interest in resigning him (Spurs), I understand you had to pay something for the luxury of taking Demar, but we ended up overpaying in terms of leverage. It's complicated to explain, because IMO we "won" the deal from the aspect of having All-NBA/2x ASG Demar... but ... we gave Spurs more leverage, getting another FRP for Thad (inconsequential #20/Branham, but still).

And then drafting far higher on the board than mocked (Patrick, Terry), without trading down. You hope the same thing doesn't happen tomorrow. Winning GMs win every margin. Ainge wanted Tatum at #1, but he got Tatum and another pick for Fultz. Feel like AK would've taken his guy #1 and called it a day (uh, Lonzo?).

Anyway, I'm glad the Giddey trade has been blasted. Rock-bottom expectations are maybe a good thing for the Bulls, these days. They do have a potential for a lucky resurgence, if everything works out. So far, he's made it harder for himself to benefit from NBA luck.

I agree with you about AK and picks that have been involved in his trades. I'll add that when he made the move for Vucevic that he should've protected the first pick just in case things went south (they did). I've said this before, but I bet both Orlando and Chicago did that trade with the idea that the Bulls would make the playoffs that season. With that in mind, I bet Orlando still does the deal even with better protections.

The Portland trade...that one's odd. AK couldn't get less protections on the pick for Markkanen (even Markkanen before he blew up)?

[Dan Z]

Ok, I'm in on this kid. Get some shooters around him now. Don't ask me how.

Shooters:

Coby
Ayo
Zach
Patrick

The Bulls jump shooting woes are really overstated IMO. Our problem is a lack of creation of good bucket opportunities. Not enough layups, dunks, foul shots, open 3s, etc.

Patrick isn't a high volume shooter, so I'm not sure how great he really is at it. Coby is streaky and Zach is on his way out. Having said that I agree with you that it's overstated.

The issues with the Bulls shooting is that DDR doesn't take three's very often and Vucevic shoots them at a low percentage.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Ok, I'm in on this kid. Get some shooters around him now. Don't ask me how.

Shooters:

Coby
Ayo
Zach
Patrick

The Bulls jump shooting woes are really overstated IMO. Our problem is a lack of creation of good bucket opportunities. Not enough layups, dunks, foul shots, open 3s, etc.

Well half that list might not be on the team anymore. I agree with what you're saying but we still need more shooting. Can't be satisfied with that list, come on, are we not trying to be the best team? A pure shooter or two would be great, lets not be satisfied with the crap we have been watching.

[Chi town]

Ok, I'm in on this kid. Get some shooters around him now. Don't ask me how.

Shooters:

Coby
Ayo
Zach
Patrick

The Bulls jump shooting woes are really overstated IMO. Our problem is a lack of creation of good bucket opportunities. Not enough layups, dunks, foul shots, open 3s, etc.

Patrick isn't a high volume shooter, so I'm not sure how great he really is at it. Coby is streaky and Zach is on his way out. Having said that I agree with you that it's overstated.

The issues with the Bulls shooting is that DDR doesn't take three's very often and Vucevic shoots them at a low percentage.

Bingo. Vuc and DDR are killing our offense without 3s. Giddey will fix that. I think Pat will see a big increase in 3s and Coby and Ayo will see a slight bump.

[Hangtime84]

Read on Twitter

He must know something about Dalen Terry we don't know. Terry is working out with Coby White trainer which is a good thing.

[League Circles]

Ok, I'm in on this kid. Get some shooters around him now. Don't ask me how.

Shooters:

Coby
Ayo
Zach
Patrick

The Bulls jump shooting woes are really overstated IMO. Our problem is a lack of creation of good bucket opportunities. Not enough layups, dunks, foul shots, open 3s, etc.

Well half that list might not be on the team anymore. I agree with what you're saying but we still need more shooting. Can't be satisfied with that list, come on, are we not trying to be the best team? A pure shooter or two would be great, lets not be satisfied with the crap we have been watching.

Who should we bench in order to play another generic "shooter"?

Even if all 3 of Demar, Zach and Patrick are all gone (unlikely), we will almost certainly be getting back at least one perimeter shooter in return. And if we don't, Coby and Ayo will start at guard with Giddey at the 3. At C, we'll either have Vuc or likely a guy who doesn't really shoot threes. That leaves the 4. IMO, if Zach and Demar are both gone, Patrick is highly likely to return, which gives us our shooter at the 4. And I haven't mentioned Jevon Carter, Ball, Bitim etc.

Generic "shooting" isn't even on my radar of stuff we really meed right now. Playmaking (Giddey) and size/athleticism is much more pressing IMO. Though trades can change things quick in any way.