Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas - Darvin Returns

[bdpecore]

Lol it's funny to see people intentionally misunderstand the point. No one is disrespecting Middleton. Again, He is our BEST TRADE asset for a reason.

The Bucks are a middling, at best, defensive team. Middling defensive teams don't win championships. Trading Middleton while his value is high is our best chance to land multiple players that can extend the window. There is no window if you can't improve defensively.

A middling defensive team just rolled through the western conference, beating two top 10 offenses in the process.

Yep, a middling team that played amazing defense in the playoffs out of nowhere. A team that's lead by only two offensive ball dominant players, not three.

Oh yeah, and that team also got absolutely destroyed by a legitimately good defensive team in the finals.

If you actually go back and look at the playoff ORtg and DRtg for Dallas their defense wasn’t nearly as dominant as you’re making them out to be. They played good enough defense and had timely stops which is why they won. Based on DRtg Luka was actually their best defender throughout the playoffs which is surprising considering going into the finals everyone was saying he’s a liability defensively.

Now if you look at the four games regular season games between the Bucks and Celtics, Boston won each of their two games by 3 points and shot well above their season 3pt% in both games. While in both Bucks wins, the Celtics lost by double digits. So to say the Mavericks got lucky at the right time and the Bucks aren’t good enough to make the finals with their current core is simply not true.

[yb90]

In a trade that will never happen but probably should...

The Bucks, Grizz, and Nets do a 3 - way swap.

Bucks - Out - Brook and #23
Bucks - In - Bridges

Grizz - Out - Smart and #9
Grizz - In - Lopez

Nets - Out - Bridges
Nets - In - Smart, #9, and 23

I actually think Lopez and Bridges are similar quality players that can fit as starters on championship level team you just need 4 players that can work around their deficiencies.

[Daver]

Which is fine. But it better be for something better than 3 meh dudes and #13.

I'm not a huge fan of the Sac deal either.

Here's the one I've brought up several times and I think is (somewhat) realistic considering what Houston is putting out publicly and their offensive issues.

Houston gets: Middleton, Marjon, 33
Bucks get: Eason, Whitmore, Dillon Brooks

I like that better but I still wouldn't do it personally.

Personally think thats by far the best proposal for kris.Brooks is a good player.This deal here would be the only one i woukd take over all the other poo poo platter offers ive seen

[BroncoBuck]

I’d be more inclined to trade Khris because we have Dame. I think Khris’ value only goes down from here on out. That’s not to say that he’s not a great fit for this team, just maximizing an asset while you can.

Brook is the one that 100% needs to go

[raferfenix]

Middleton is having his first healthy offseason in years.

Maybe this is the peak of his trade value with even just 1 star-happy team deciding giving 34 year old Paul George a 4 year max deal < 2 years of 33 year old Middleton at ~ $31 million.

Or maybe Khris goes on a tear next season without actively rehabbing and with a coach who can take advantage of the absurdly strong offensive trio we got.

If we trade Khris I want a haul in return basically. Whatever that means in practice.

[Daver]

Middleton is having his first healthy offseason in years.

Maybe this is the peak of his trade value with even just 1 star-happy team deciding giving 34 year old Paul George a 4 year max deal < 2 years of 33 year old Middleton at ~ $31 million.

Or maybe Khris goes on a tear next season without actively rehabbing and with a coach who can take advantage of the absurdly strong offensive trio we got.

If we trade Khris I want a haul in return basically. Whatever that means in practice.

Think with all 3 healthy coming into camp dame in great shape and a full TC for doc to integrate these 3 guys i could see a very very dynamic Offense this year

[fansinceforever]

We could get even more out of Houston than I originally thought...

[ShootingtheJ]

Not sure if Givoney is just assuming based on prior interest, but it makes sense how Houston would still be in on Brook:



Memphis and Houston are both great Brook trade targets. Getting Smart plus stuff or Eason and salary filler (Landale, Jeff Green, Tate) could be the play.

With new rules for non tax teams, salary fillers shouldn't be needed, and Tate, Green, and Landale are all non guaranteed or team options. No need for those scrubs to muck up our salary sheet.

Getting Eason and draft compensation would be great. If we instead get Marcus Smart, then we're worse off than when we started.

Luckily Memphis has no idea that he's bad, so they're not dealing him.

Sure but taking back additional salary adds value to our portion of a trade and increase our return. If Houston is responsible for eating a significant portion of brook's salary it diminishes his trade value.

We're not doing the Rockets any favors though when it's players Houston can just decline the options on.

[midranger]

Brook for Keldon Johnson + stuff: Gets SAS out of a contract. Allows Wemby to play some PF and Brook can mentor/lean on bigs.

Bobby for Eason, Jock Landale, future 2nd

Gets us under second apron. Allows TPMLE to sign a C.

Dame/Bev
Johnson/Green
Middleton/Eason
Giannis/Eason
TPMLE and/or 23/Landale

[ShootingtheJ]

How do we tell them about Gery? lol

Read on Twitter

If so can i see a marcus smart plus ? coming to the bucks.You all want that D guy like him or not hes one of those guys

Beverly was more valuable the last 2 years than Smart.

[yb90]

How do we tell them about Gery? lol

Read on Twitter

If so can i see a marcus smart plus ? coming to the bucks.You all want that D guy like him or not hes one of those guys

Beverly was more valuable the last 2 years than Smart.

I would not go that far but price wise Bev is better for similar production minus the assists. If Beverly can some how regain his 3pt shooting on his earlier attempt rate he would be way better.

[blazza18]

Hon Jorst on the clock

[yb90]

All it take is one team to over value one of the Bucks players.

[Matches Malone]

Hon Jorst on the clock

[MiltownMadness]

You're not factoring in what we receive for Middleton and additional personnel moves. The Bucks can build a very efficient offense capable of wining a championship around those two.

This roster is not a guy at the 2 spot who can slide their feet away from winning a championship. Not in my opinion at least.

We see this repeated ad nauseam, but the truth is last year was a disaster and its hard to analyze the teams ceiling. I know those 3 can win a title together, far less talented trios have. If you just look at the disaster that was last year I could see why you would think differently, but why do that in an honest argument? Its not honest

I don't understand. We're both stating opinions so why would yours be honest but you wouldn't consider mine to be?

No, I just think if you believe last season is the reason we can't win a chip you must be running with your own narrative. Last season was gross and it's really hard to gloss much of anything from it. That's my point, but you also know that way worse trios have won chips so i think you have a bit of bias, I don't think you even think your own opinion is true

If you want to get literal, you can make a great argument that the top 3 on this Bucks team is better than the last 4 championship winners, including our own in 21. If they stay healthy with a full year of steadiness with the coaching staff I don't see why they can't be the best. Please improve on the fringes and gamble on the health of the big 3, any downgrade means we are cooked.

As so many have said, no trade involving Khris makes us better. His value is hilariously inflated in these trade ideas on here, I think the value for Khris is good in some of these ideas but the direction is disgusting and you're ignoring all context, these trades will never come close to happening because most don't see the position the org is even in. Getting obssessed with marginal playoff players like Keon Ellis when you're dealing a star player is hilariously bad. The nice part is that we are win now and won't trade Khris because that's obvious, his value to us is drastically better than to a team on the fringe.

[-Jragon-]

A middling defensive team just rolled through the western conference, beating two top 10 offenses in the process.

Yep, a middling team that played amazing defense in the playoffs out of nowhere. A team that's lead by only two offensive ball dominant players, not three.

Oh yeah, and that team also got absolutely destroyed by a legitimately good defensive team in the finals.

If you actually go back and look at the playoff ORtg and DRtg for Dallas their defense wasn’t nearly as dominant as you’re making them out to be. They played good enough defense and had timely stops which is why they won. Based on DRtg Luka was actually their best defender throughout the playoffs which is surprising considering going into the finals everyone was saying he’s a liability defensively.

Now if you look at the four games regular season games between the Bucks and Celtics, Boston won each of their two games by 3 points and shot well above their season 3pt% in both games. While in both Bucks wins, the Celtics lost by double digits. So to say the Mavericks got lucky at the right time and the Bucks aren’t good enough to make the finals with their current core is simply not true.

We ALL should know by now that the best veteran teams weren't taking regular season games seriously. Teams were punting games left and right, sitting guys and using vanilla schemes vs teams they imagined might be playoff foes. Even the last 3 months the posters here were like eww this is garbage just start the playoffs. The sample sizes for meaningful, competitive games with both teams near full strength is almost non-existent or have too many outliers to gather reasonable averages so that makes the regular season stats irrelevant.

If you watched some games and you thought Khris put defensive effort in, knew the defensive schemes, had proper mechanics/fundamentals while on D, dribbling and rebounding. If you thought he could be aggressive on D and make offense tough on opposing players than just say that. If you thought he played unselfishly than fine. If you saw all those things from him than fine, just say he can and will do it and say his style of play on both sides of the ball will get it done with our team.

I watched a lot of games and Khris looks perpetually lazy, hurt, lost on D and selfish to me. He looks like a bad fit with Dame to me. With all 3 in the game often Dame was just ignored by Giannis and Khris. It was ignorant and stupid to me to have several possessions in a row where Dame doesn't even touch the ball. So say what you see but Just please stop with the regular season stats stuff.

If so can i see a marcus smart plus ? coming to the bucks.You all want that D guy like him or not hes one of those guys

Beverly was more valuable the last 2 years than Smart.

I would not go that far but price wise Bev is better for similar production minus the assists. If Beverly can some how regain his 3pt shooting on his earlier attempt rate he would be way better.

Do we have any hope of retaining him? I was told we can offer him the minimum plus a small raise and that's it because he was signed last year in a minimum deal - so any team can steal him and just outbid us. Wtf wouldn't he just go to LA and really have his pod takeoff? He showed out here. To me the Philly situation looked like a shrewd move so that he could get a chance for a ring with us but then get a little more money to return to Philly, so there's that, too. That's 2 reasons for him to not come back and 3 if he doesn't think Khris melds with Dame properly.

[-Jragon-]

We see this repeated ad nauseam, but the truth is last year was a disaster and its hard to analyze the teams ceiling. I know those 3 can win a title together, far less talented trios have. If you just look at the disaster that was last year I could see why you would think differently, but why do that in an honest argument? Its not honest

I don't understand. We're both stating opinions so why would yours be honest but you wouldn't consider mine to be?

No, I just think if you believe last season is the reason we can't win a chip you must be running with your own narrative. Last season was gross and it's really hard to gloss much of anything from it. That's my point, but you also know that way worse trios have won chips so i think you have a bit of bias, I don't think you even think your own opinion is true

If you want to get literal, you can make a great argument that the top 3 on this Bucks team is better than the last 4 championship winners, including our own in 21. If they stay healthy with a full year of steadiness with the coaching staff I don't see why they can't be the best. Please improve on the fringes and gamble on the health of the big 3, any downgrade means we are cooked.

As so many have said, no trade involving Khris makes us better. His value is hilariously inflated in these trade ideas on here, I think the value for Khris is good in some of these ideas but the direction is disgusting and you're ignoring all context, these trades will never come close to happening because most don't see the position the org is even in. Getting obssessed with marginal playoff players like Keon Ellis when you're dealing a star player is hilariously bad. The nice part is that we are win now and won't trade Khris because that's obvious, his value to us is drastically better than to a team on the fringe.

There's a clever aspect to a Khris trade as addition by subtraction. Because as Khris leaves and faster, hustling, screening, defending, less fiddle faddling and bumble stumbling guys come back for him our whole style of play becomes faster and crisper while being willing to screen and let the offense stay in our Dynamic Duo's hands. I get that this puts a higher stress on having multiple plays and motions to open up Dame and Giannis even multiple times some possessions but having players willing to concede to them will pay dividends as well. One less ME guy that NEEDS the ball is also addition by subtraction.

[fan230]

I would not trade Khris. His passing to and communication with Giannis is far superior to those between Dame and Giannis.

We should keep all 3. Try to draft a 7 footer in the draft.

Trade Pat and Portis if we can get a good return, hopefully after getting below the 2nd apron.

Trade any one of the younger guys if needed.

I would like us to retain Livingston if possible.

Trade Brook only if we can get really good return.

[VooDoo7]

Hon Jorst on the clock

He's on it.

[MiltownMadness]

I don't understand. We're both stating opinions so why would yours be honest but you wouldn't consider mine to be?

No, I just think if you believe last season is the reason we can't win a chip you must be running with your own narrative. Last season was gross and it's really hard to gloss much of anything from it. That's my point, but you also know that way worse trios have won chips so i think you have a bit of bias, I don't think you even think your own opinion is true

If you want to get literal, you can make a great argument that the top 3 on this Bucks team is better than the last 4 championship winners, including our own in 21. If they stay healthy with a full year of steadiness with the coaching staff I don't see why they can't be the best. Please improve on the fringes and gamble on the health of the big 3, any downgrade means we are cooked.

As so many have said, no trade involving Khris makes us better. His value is hilariously inflated in these trade ideas on here, I think the value for Khris is good in some of these ideas but the direction is disgusting and you're ignoring all context, these trades will never come close to happening because most don't see the position the org is even in. Getting obssessed with marginal playoff players like Keon Ellis when you're dealing a star player is hilariously bad. The nice part is that we are win now and won't trade Khris because that's obvious, his value to us is drastically better than to a team on the fringe.

There's a clever aspect to a Khris trade as addition by subtraction. Because as Khris leaves and faster, hustling, screening, defending, less fiddle faddling and bumble stumbling guys come back for him our whole style of play becomes faster and crisper while being willing to screen and let the offense stay in our Dynamic Duo's hands. I get that this puts a higher stress on having multiple plays and motions to open up Dame and Giannis even multiple times some possessions but having players willing to concede to them will pay dividends as well. One less ME guy that NEEDS the ball is also addition by subtraction.

Khris is not a me first guy, and team plays drastically better with him on the floor as we've been through 100x at this point. Maybe the problem is that we were starting a fringe NBA player in Beasley who doesn't serve our needs at the 2, and our 2 best players went down when it mattered