Presti's Tree Reaches DC: The Official Will Dawkins Thread

[FAH1223]

For what position?

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Senior Advisor or consultant..

Weaver having long standing ties to Winger and Dawkins from OKC probably yields something

[FAH1223]

This was a very OKC type draft

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

This was a very OKC type draft

Keep telling yourself that... OKC is good because of a player they traded for lest us not forget. Not to mention a Clippers franchise making desperation moves that never netted them any meaningful hardware or accolades.

[AFM]

As I indicated in the other thread, now that the shock has worn off, I will stick my neck out and say I like what they’re doing. They are gutsy and making painful decisions. Keeping Deni would have been easy.
You can say you think Deni was worth more but that’s conjecture. We aren’t actually Real GMs on this board, just fans. I think they know more about Debi’s actual value than we do. Unless you think they are either a) really stupid or b) purposefully sabotaging the franchise, this is what Deni was worth. He’s worth what other teams would give for him. Sorry for the pedantry. It doesn’t matter if you personally liked him or loved “watching him grow” etc.
I will remain cautiously optimistic and I’m excited to see the new kids play. Sarr has insane potential and I’m already partial to Bub. Let’s go

[badinage]

As I indicated in the other thread, now that the shock has worn off, I will stick my neck out and say I like what they’re doing. They are gutsy and making painful decisions. Keeping Deni would have been easy.
You can say you think Deni was worth more but that’s conjecture. We aren’t actually Real GMs on this board, just fans. I think they know more about Debi’s actual value than we do. Unless you think they are either a) really stupid or b) purposefully sabotaging the franchise, this is what Deni was worth. He’s worth what other teams would give for him. Sorry for the pedantry. It doesn’t matter if you personally liked him or loved “watching him grow” etc.
I will remain cautiously optimistic and I’m excited to see the new kids play. Sarr has insane potential and I’m already partial to Bub. Let’s go

If this team is not a quote-unquote generational team (which is what Winger has promised) in three, four years, then they will have failed.

But see, this is the sneaky part of all of this sh*t.

They can fail, and still win 54 games, and many, many people will be happy -- because that hasn't happened in more than four decades! Because that looks like success!

But I and I hope others here will hold their feet to the fire.

They had better build a "generational team." That is, a team that is winning 60 games a year or thereabouts for 7-8 years, and is bringing home two titles at a minimum.

That means a team that is beating Minnesota with Ant and KAT and Gobert and Dillingham; that is beating San Antonio with Wembanyama and Castle and all their other wings now and to come; that is beating Denver with Jokic, and Dallas with Luka, and Boston with all their talent and depth; and OKC, loaded to the max with youth and length and skill.

Nothing LESS than this is going to be acceptable.

LESS than this, and Winger and Dawkins ought to be sent packing.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

As I indicated in the other thread, now that the shock has worn off, I will stick my neck out and say I like what they’re doing. They are gutsy and making painful decisions. Keeping Deni would have been easy.
You can say you think Deni was worth more but that’s conjecture. We aren’t actually Real GMs on this board, just fans. I think they know more about Debi’s actual value than we do. Unless you think they are either a) really stupid or b) purposefully sabotaging the franchise, this is what Deni was worth. He’s worth what other teams would give for him. Sorry for the pedantry. It doesn’t matter if you personally liked him or loved “watching him grow” etc.
I will remain cautiously optimistic and I’m excited to see the new kids play. Sarr has insane potential and I’m already partial to Bub. Let’s go

Occam's razor enters to say: A

In a years time they have already (1) saddled us with Poole's albatross contract, (2) traded away a young (I'll keep reiterating there were guys in this draft that are as old as him) and up-and-coming Deni for a 14th pick with major flaws in a weak draft and a complete unknown 2nd best of three picks, 1st five years away, and (3) let Kuzma veto (without a no trade clause) a trade that would have netted us at least a 1st rounder.

For all of those who loved to keep tally of EG and Shepps blunders, that is an impressive track record in 12 months.

They did get us out of Beal's contract, but with very little near term assets other than some highly variable swaps that won't even come into play for at least another two years.

So we are completely relying on their ability to make picks. Bilal, their first swing move, had a super meh rookie season. He just added almost consensus pick at 2 who from a weak, a point guard who is most regarded for the much maligned midrange game, and a 20 year-old freshman who was pedestrian in his lone college season (oh yeah had to give the 51st pick to move up two spots for a guy they may have already got anyways).

[FAH1223]

This was a very OKC type draft

Keep telling yourself that... OKC is good because of a player they traded for lest us not forget. Not to mention a Clippers franchise making desperation moves that never netted them any meaningful hardware or accolades.

This sure as hell wasn’t a Wes Unseld draft.

Or an Ernie Grunfeld draft.

[smoothSeph]

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[NatP4]

Deni Avdija would be a nice fit for that

[Tyrone Messby]

Yep, Deni is basically perfect for that and easily the best player on the team to handle that type of gameplan..but alas he is in Portland now. Make it make sense.

[badinage]

Deni Avdija would be a nice fit for that

But we’re gonna do it with new guys — guys we picked. And we’re gonna make it sound as if we’ve reinvented the game.

“Random within a system to where you're making reads”??? What in actual f*ck does this mean? Like, I understand the *basic* point, but I want to understand this.

Did anyone ask him about Deni and how he defends the trade??

[NatP4]

Deni Avdija would be a nice fit for that

But we’re gonna do it with new guys — guys we picked. And we’re gonna make it sound as if we’ve reinvented the game.

“Random within a system to where you're making reads”??? What in actual f*ck does this mean? Like, I understand the *basic* point, but I want to understand this.

Did anyone ask him about Deni and how he defends the trade??

Of course not.

But did you know Bub Carrington is from Baltimore?

[badinage]

Yyyep. That’s about the level of sports journalism in this town.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Deni Avdija would be a nice fit for that

But we’re gonna do it with new guys — guys we picked. And we’re gonna make it sound as if we’ve reinvented the game.

“Random within a system to where you're making reads”??? What in actual f*ck does this mean? Like, I understand the *basic* point, but I want to understand this.

Did anyone ask him about Deni and how he defends the trade??

Of course not.

But did you know Bub Carrington is from Baltimore?

Literally a guy we had would have been perfect. But no matter, Bub is from Baltimore and is a local guy we'll without a doubt be able to give a warm embrace of our iconic bobblehead nights and have a local rap artist give an after game concert.

What a minor league outpost this team insists on being.

[FAH1223]

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[smoothSeph]

I think Deni was a fit stylistically, just not from a timeline perspective. Also not a guarantee his trade value continues to go up playing next to Kuzma (who's unfortunately still here).

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

I think Deni was a fit stylistically, just not from a timeline perspective. Also not a guarantee his trade value continues to go up playing next to Kuzma (who's unfortunately still here).

What kind of timeline are you talking about? He's 23.

So please someone in this "he's wasn't in the timeline camp" please what you mean by they this. So is this rebuild going to take 2 years? 3 years? 4 years? 5 years? 6 years? 7 years?

So if we were in year 1 this year Deni was ages 22 and 23. If we go by years of rebuild years this is what it would have looked like:

Year 2: 23-24 years old
Year 3: 24-25 years old
Year 4: 25-26 years old
Year 5: 26-27 years old
Year 6: 27-28 years old
Year 7: 28-29 years old
Year 8: 29-30 years old
Year 9: 30-31 years old
Year 10: 31-32 years old

So given that players are in their primes from approximate say 27-21 years of age, Deni would just had just been at the tail end of his if this turned into a decades long rebuild. So even it this rebuild was on the extreme end and took 6 years we'd basically have a guy potentially entering his prime.

Again, this isn't stating that he would have been here forever. Maybe we draft Flagg and he made Deni expendable for another piece. Maybe Deni plateaus. Maybe he regresses. But this notion that he didn't fit the timeline is a mind numbingly, ridiculous talking point for those just trying to make this like it isn't a thing unless you believe every player on a team can only be two years apart.

Adding is not hard folks.

[doclinkin]

The only reasoning I can puzzle out is this:

1) They really really like how they think Bub will turn out. Their medical staff sees him growing, his growth plates are still open and they see considerable upside in where he may top out. First hand they have seen the benefit of a guy like SVA as a 6'6" PG. Bub has a lot of similar markers: a tall scoring PG who can dominate in the mid-range. If Bub gets to 6'6" or 6'7" while steadily improving, there's all-star opportunities in a player like that. Deni is good, but maybe at his top end he looks like a supplementary player to them, not a take-over guy.

2) The FO wants to accelerate the development of a player like Sarr, and to a lesser extent Bilal and Vuk, by removing any obstacles to playing time. No coach would give Deni's minutes to any of them. He is too solid of a player. But the only hope of the franchise is if we somehow uncover no-question all-stars who can dominate at their position. The quickest way to get there may be trial by fire and playing through mistakes. They agree with Sarr's assessment that he is best as a forward. They need him and Bilal to grow up in a hurry. Vuk as well.

Now that's all fine if they also jettison Kuzma, since he is going to soak heavy minutes at either forward spot. The problem is due to the lux tax rebate rules no team in the league will let themselves fall under the 90% threshold. So we need Brogdon's salary in order to be able to trade Kuz. Or else we trade for equivalent salary. Brogdon gives us flexibility to lose the Kuz.

Is Brogdon meaningful? Brogdon could be a solid veteran mentor for Carrington and Bilal, Kyshawn, maybe Kispert, PBJ, whomever. He's tough, plays defense, is scrappy. Has a team oriented game, passes well and plays bigger than his size. Defends big. And his injury history suggests he will do some of that mentoring from the bench, instead of soaking developmental time. Less stress there, since we don't have a logjam at guard.

I dunno. As for Kyshawn George. Not sure about why we had to leapfrog the 25th pick to get him, but I don't really hate losing the 51st pick to do so. There will be UDFA's available who are about as likely to be good. I bet Dawkins simply guessed wrong. He knew the sort of player OKC liked, figured it was George, heard New York was negotiating with them, maybe inside sources, so he spent a late pick to be sure.

Their version of BBIQ is players who are smart passers. Skilled ballhandlers and decision makers who are tall for their position. My definition is different. But if so then a guy like Kyshawn George fits their style better than a player like Gafford, who whatever his strengths is pretty limited in his role. There is no question this team needs better outside shooting, especially from a frontcourt player, to make sure a guy like Sarr is not going to be crowded underneath.

I dunno.

The only issue is of course that all the things I say they need are amply filled by a guy like Deni. So the only question is if you think any of these players are more likely to become an all-star than Avdija. Maybe Sarr if he develops right. Or at least maybe he develops into a 1st team all Defense guy. (Though I suspect Deni could be all-defense quality and never get the respect for it). Maybe Bub could be a star if he does grow 2-3" taller and gets stronger in his attack game. Adds range to his jumper so he plays like a giant version of Rob Dillingham. Maybe.

It's all unlikely, but so is playing in the NBA at all. Maybe the WingerDawkins philosophy identifies better how to grow your own all-stars. Maybe they trust their philosophy of betting on late bloomers and catching them while they can put them through All-Star University with their carefully crafted individual training plans. In that respect we can perhaps take some small amount of faith from the Deni situation in that he did bloom this past year under the Dawkins plan. After a couple years where he did fall short.

SO the hope lies there: that whatever they did to help Deni grow is repeatable with players who have better raw materials to become positionally dominant. Deni was a good player, but nobody feared him. Few opposing coaches were game-planning to stop Deni. Maybe if they get Sarr to grow fast he puts Deni in the rearview mirror. Or if Bub dazzles and catches the hearts of the local locos, then maybe we grudgingly forgive them for losing our homegrown kid.

So I guess that's all. They bet on Bub. And need room to grow for guys like Sarr and Bilal.

Sorry Deni, we will miss you kid. Proud to know you in a Wizards uniform.

[FAH1223]

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[smoothSeph]

I think Deni was a fit stylistically, just not from a timeline perspective. Also not a guarantee his trade value continues to go up playing next to Kuzma (who's unfortunately still here).

What kind of timeline are you talking about? He's 23.

So please someone in this "he's wasn't in the timeline camp" please what you mean by they this. So is this rebuild going to take 2 years? 3 years? 4 years? 5 years? 6 years? 7 years?

So if we were in year 1 this year Deni was ages 22 and 23. If we go by years of rebuild years this is what it would have looked like:

Year 2: 23-24 years old
Year 3: 24-25 years old
Year 4: 25-26 years old
Year 5: 26-27 years old
Year 6: 27-28 years old
Year 7: 28-29 years old
Year 8: 29-30 years old
Year 9: 30-31 years old
Year 10: 31-32 years old

So given that players are in their primes from approximate say 27-21 years of age, Deni would just had just been at the tail end of his if this turned into a decades long rebuild. So even it this rebuild was on the extreme end and took 6 years we'd basically have a guy potentially entering his prime.

Again, this isn't stating that he would have been here forever. Maybe we draft Flagg and he made Deni expendable for another piece. Maybe Deni plateaus. Maybe he regresses. But this notion that he didn't fit the timeline is a mind numbingly, ridiculous talking point for those just trying to make this like it isn't a thing unless you believe every player on a team can only be two years apart.

Adding is not hard folks.

Clearly it's not that cut and dry. The players drafted in the past 2 years are 19, 21, 19, 18 and 19. This FO is shooting for homerun picks right now not role players. Deni, despite this board's sudden love of him, is a role player. Don't be surprised if Kispert is gone, and Vuc (21) is gone in a couple years too if his ceiling looks limited.